4th & 27???

[familykwi]

Is there a thread about that?  I listened to McD's presser last night knowing that question would be posed.  It was, but he totally answered off point.

 

Has anything else been offered as to why in the world we didn't kick deep to pin the Texans down giving us a better chance to get field position on the last drive making a TD possible?

 

Obviously, the sack was unexpected, but I did not understand the strategy whatsoever.  I know we pulled out the last minute FG ultimately, but that doesn't really excuse the decision.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

McDermott didn't have a good game.

[Bangarang]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

McDermott didn't have a good game.

His game management is a legit criticism. 

[Real McClappy]

Was a very poor decision with 3 TO's. We should have punted 100 times out of 100. It's crazy we stopped the Texans and still got to OT somehow.

[Sandhill Mike]

That series there was gut-wrenching.  After the failed fourth down, I just knew it was over.  The Texans had the ball on our side of the field and I didn't see how we'd get it back and if we did, without the score changing.  You've got to give credit to the Bills for even making it to overtime.

[pennstate10]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

McDermott didn't have a good game.

 

I like McD, and think hes the coach for Bflo.  Blue collar, tough, hardworking.

 

Having said that, he made several key mistakes yesterday.

I have no idea who made the conservative O and D play calls, so I wont go there.

But with respect to general CEO calls, the punt on 4th and 4 from the 38 yd line was a mistake.  Gained them 18 yds.

Not punting on 4th and 27 was also a mistake.  I think McD panicked there, thinking that they couldnt get the ball back.

And not vigorously protesting the reversed KO TD was a huge mistake.

[Penfield45]

McDermott is a great Defensive coach 

 

but that's about it. he has no idea how to develop a top offense, his in game management is awful, his challenges are poor, and he constantly is making boneheaded personal decisions, like Duke Williams not allowed to play while Lee smith and Demarco are running routes 40 yards downfield. 

 

he isn't a top HC in this league 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Penfield45

[Boatdrinks]

It was a bad decision, but I still think they had a shot at a TD. Not as good of one, perhaps but that’s not guaranteed. Up 16-0 and the OT period were more complicit in the loss. 

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, Penfield45 said:

McDermott is a great Defensive coach 

 

but that's about it. he has no idea how to develop a top offense, his in game management is awful, his challenges are poor, and he constantly is making boneheaded personeal decisions, like Duke Williams not allowed to play while Lee smith and Demarco are running routes 40 yards downfield.  

His players seem to play hard for him.  That is pretty important. 

But he really lacks accountability for his own errors.  He was very public about telling his players, especially Allen, to play fearlessly.  Then after the refs stole the game, and he made multiple coaching errors during the game, blamed the loss on Allen "trying to do to much".  I thought that was a real ***** move. 

[Shaw66]

10 minutes ago, familykwi said:

Is there a thread about that?  I listened to McD's presser last night knowing that question would be posed.  It was, but he totally answered off point.

 

Has anything else been offered as to why in the world we didn't kick deep to pin the Texans down giving us a better chance to get field position on the last drive making a TD possible?

 

Obviously, the sack was unexpected, but I did not understand the strategy whatsoever.  I know we pulled out the last minute FG ultimately, but that doesn't really excuse the decision.

I don't know the answer to this, but the more I think about it, the more ironic it seems that someone is asking this question.  

 

The refrain around here is that McDermott is too conservative, that he punts when he should go for it, blah blah.   Now comes someone saying what was he doing, going for it?   

 

They're just decisions that a coach has to make all the time.  Some decisions work out, some don't.  

 

If I had to guess, here's what he was thinking:   Whether he punts or goes for it and doesn't make it, if the Eagles get one first down, the game is over.   So his chances aren't very good either way.  Going for it at least gives him two shots at it.   Maybe he gets a miracle on 4th and 27.  Maybe he gets a defensive penalty.   If he doesn't make it, other than field position, he's no worse off than he was.  If his defense doesn't hold, he's done.  If it does hold, he has a shot.   

[billsfan_34]

19 minutes ago, familykwi said:

Is there a thread about that?  I listened to McD's presser last night knowing that question would be posed.  It was, but he totally answered off point.

 

Has anything else been offered as to why in the world we didn't kick deep to pin the Texans down giving us a better chance to get field position on the last drive making a TD possible?

 

Obviously, the sack was unexpected, but I did not understand the strategy whatsoever.  I know we pulled out the last minute FG ultimately, but that doesn't really excuse the decision.

That was by far the worst call ever! Kick the FG your odds are better.

[JaCrispy]

13 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

McDermott is a great Defensive coach 

 

but that's about it. he has no idea how to develop a top offense, his in game management is awful, his challenges are poor, and he constantly is making boneheaded personal decisions, like Duke Williams not allowed to play while Lee smith and Demarco are running routes 40 yards downfield. 

 

he isn't a top HC in this league 

It is kinda weird how some people think he is...he never wins against top competition...he doesn’t know how to manage the game in crunch time...he constantly coaches scared and not to lose...if anything McD is very mediocre...just because the Bills has a winning record against the easiest schedule does not make him a top HC imo...

[Shaw66]

17 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

His game management is a legit criticism. 

I'm much less critical of his game management than most, because I literally don't know how to make those decisions.  Much of the criticism of McDermott's game management comes after losses, and that makes me suspect.   If his game management is so bad, what's going on during those wins?

 

Having said that, I think game management is a skill that coaches develop over time.   All the time that guys are assistants or coordinators, they're not making game management decisions.   The HC is telling them when they're going for it, when they're punting, etc.   So McDermott has been managing games for exactly three seasons, while Reid and Belichick and Tomlin have been doing it for 20.   There's no way anyone should expect McDermott to be as good at game management, yet, as seasoned coaches.

 

McDermott has talked about this in general terms.   He is not exempt from the process.   His, game management decisions are studied and evaluated, and they develop knowledge and techniques to correct what they determine are game management mistakes.   I'm sure analytics are involved, and that the Bills maintain a database about in-game decisions.   I'm sure he's getting in-game advice about what the database says in various situations.   

 

So, I don't know how good or how bad his game management actually is, but I would expect that it will improve from year to year for several years.   

[The Firebaugh Kid]

You punt there. No way you're picking up 27 yards. Take the advantage in field position. 

[Freddie's Dead]

Going for it on 4th and 27 is a fireable offense all by itself.  Either try the FG, or punt deep, OR run Big Ben to the end zone and don't care if it's picked off.  Amazing that we even made it to OT.

[Bing Bong]

I was very confused about it. Don't really recall seeing anything like it. I figured the punter was injured or something else bizarre happened that we didn't know about.

[Matt_In_NH]

This was ahead scratcher.   At the game we were looking at each other going wtf?   This was the wrong decision.    The. Compounded by the sack

You have close to 0% chance to convert 4th and 27

[BillsVet]

41 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

McDermott didn't have a good game.

 

Let's go back to the Cleveland loss.  That day was another badly managed game where McD was criticized for playing it conservative.  And what was the response?  Well, the guy who is the one voice of the franchise told the team they needed to play fearless.  Miraculously, Chris Brown reported that and it became a catch phrase.  Yet, the effect was it took the blame off of McD and Daboll by making it seem the play-calling was good, but the players were not aggressive.

 

Same thing has happened after a much bigger game.  McD made some dubious decisions that need to be scrutinized, but you wouldn't know that anything bad happened from a game-management perspective.  No, according to McD, Josh was trying to do too much.  

 

I like Josh and he does admittedly play reckless, but he's a 2nd year QB and McD has been in the NFL 20 seasons.  Daboll isn't far behind in experience.  Which people in that situation should have the onus placed on them for blowing a 16 point lead with 21 minutes remaining now?  

 

McD is a manipulator, but with every close loss he's showing that he's another in a long line of play-it safe, don't risk much, hope to win a close one type coach.  Those guys have a shelf life and it ain't that long.  

[0017]

46 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

McDermott is a great Defensive coach 

 

but that's about it. he has no idea how to develop a top offense, his in game management is awful, his challenges are poor, and he constantly is making boneheaded personal decisions, like Duke Williams not allowed to play while Lee smith and Demarco are running routes 40 yards downfield. 

 

he isn't a top HC in this league 

I would add to this using frank gore way too much!!

[Your Brown Eye]

[BuffaninATL]

50 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

McDermott is a great Defensive coach 

 

but that's about it. he has no idea how to develop a top offense, his in game management is awful, his challenges are poor, and he constantly is making boneheaded personal decisions, like Duke Williams not allowed to play while Lee smith and Demarco are running routes 40 yards downfield. 

 

he isn't a top HC in this league 

 

boneheaded personal decisions.......now that's a funny read

[Helpmenow]

So how much input does McDermott have on the D?

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Helpmenow

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

McDermott seems to be conservative when he should be aggressive and then stupidly aggressive at times when he should be conservative. It's bizarre.

[atlbillsfan1975]

It worked out ok, but if they punted and pinned them back deep who knows what could of happened. 
I didn’t like the decision at the time. It wasn’t what you do there.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

 

The refrain around here is that McDermott is too conservative, that he punts when he should go for it, blah blah.   Now comes someone saying what was he doing, going for it?   

 

They're just decisions that a coach has to make all the time.  Some decisions work out, some don't.  

 

Come on, man.  You can’t see the difference between going for it on 4th and 3 (50 percent or better chance) and going for it on 4th and 27 (2 percent chance at best, especially when your QB is in deer/headlight mode)?  One is smart, the other is reckless and downright dumb.

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

1 hour ago, Real McNasty said:

Was a very poor decision with 3 TO's. We should have punted 100 times out of 100. It's crazy we stopped the Texans and still got to OT somehow.

Wondering if he got any input from his Ass Coaches? Collectively, they should be able to make a better decision. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

His players seem to play hard for him.  That is pretty important. 

But he really lacks accountability for his own errors.  He was very public about telling his players, especially Allen, to play fearlessly.  Then after the refs stole the game, and he made multiple coaching errors during the game, blamed the loss on Allen "trying to do to much".  I thought that was a real ***** move. 

 

I think the attempted lateral warrants Mcd's comment about doing too much. 

[Chaos]

Just now, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I think the attempted lateral warrants Mcd's comment about doing too much. 

A play that had zero impact on the outcome of the game. 

[familykwi]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

The refrain around here is that McDermott is too conservative, that he punts when he should go for it, blah blah.   Now comes someone saying what was he doing, going for it?   

First, because some make an assertion, does not mean we all do.  I've not complained about conservatism.

 

But if I had, going on 4th and 27 is not being aggressive, it's insanity.  With the defense we have and 3 time outs in pocket with 1:55 on the clock, he should have EXPECTED to get the ball back in decent field position.  Of course I'm sure he never imagined Josh giving up another huge sack, so I don't consider that part of the equation, but even if I could have brought in KC's offense on that play, I would not have felt good about the chances of converting 4th & 27.

5 minutes ago, Chaos said:

7 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I think the attempted lateral warrants Mcd's comment about doing too much. 

 

A play that had zero impact on the outcome of the game. 

That may be true, but that play is going to linger in a lot of minds including his teammates. 

It was not heroic.  It was not gutty.  That was a panic play, plain and simple.

If Josh continues to lose his mind, he'll lose the confidence of his locker room.  That's the worry I have after watching yesterday's game.

[Nuncha]

This play may have made more sense on 4th and 27.

 

[familykwi]

1 minute ago, Azucho98 said:

This play may have made more sense on 4th and 27.

 

I remember that play.  Michaels & Collinsworth were just as surprised looking at this as yesterday's were when Josh tossed the lateral.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

12 minutes ago, familykwi said:

First, because some make an assertion, does not mean we all do.  I've not complained about conservatism.

 

But if I had, going on 4th and 27 is not being aggressive, it's insanity.  With the defense we have and 3 time outs in pocket with 1:55 on the clock, he should have EXPECTED to get the ball back in decent field position.  Of course I'm sure he never imagined Josh giving up another huge sack, so I don't consider that part of the equation, but even if I could have brought in KC's offense on that play, I would not have felt good about the chances of converting 4th & 27.

That may be true, but that play is going to linger in a lot of minds including his teammates. 

It was not heroic.  It was not gutty.  That was a panic play, plain and simple.

If Josh continues to lose his mind, he'll lose the confidence of his locker room.  That's the worry I have after watching yesterday's game.

 

I don't know if it was panic or just not thinking straight.  That play would have been fine if there were around 15 seconds left in the game or was on 4th down.  Maybe he just lost  track of things.

 

As they say with rookies all the time, as they play more, the game slows down, think that's still needed for Josh.  

 

I thin kit's tougher too for any player, but in particular for a QB coming from a college program where you were the best player on the team and everything was on you.  Take a guy like Trever Lawrence, likely will be the 2021 #1 overall pick.  There are still many other players on that team who are just as talented.  For Allen  very little competition.

[Buffalo716]

Literally the worst decision I have seen in the NFL in 30 years

[John in Jax]

2 hours ago, familykwi said:

Has anything else been offered as to why in the world we didn't kick deep to pin the Texans down giving us a better chance to get field position on the last drive making a TD possible?

There is a reason I call the guy "McDummy!" LOL 

[McBean]

McClappy will have to go back and look at the tape.

[row_33]

23 minutes ago, Azucho98 said:

This play may have made more sense on 4th and 27.

 

did they actually practice one man getting through 3 that week?

 

 

[Josh Allen is not the one]

2 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

I like McD, and think hes the coach for Bflo.  Blue collar, tough, hardworking.

 

I don't understand the reasoning here.  A lot of people on here say that about our head coach or Josh Allen.  "He's right for Buffalo"  If he was white collar and not so tough, he couldn't be here?  I just want somebody here who is smart and understands the game.  I think McDermott is a great defensive coach.  As a head coach he's now 25-23, (0-2) in the playoffs.  That's a typical average head coach.  I want better.

 

[familykwi]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I don't know if it was panic or just not thinking straight.  That play would have been fine if there were around 15 seconds left in the game or was on 4th down.  Maybe he just lost  track of things.

 

As they say with rookies all the time, as they play more, the game slows down, think that's still needed for Josh.  

Panic:  noun:  1.  sudden uncontrollable fear or anxiety, often causing wildly unthinking behavior.

Textbook.  If he lost track of things and behaved without thinking that IS panic.  Thanks for helping make my point.

 

"The more they play the more it slows down"  - I made a comment to a friend when they did a close up of Josh to the effect of, "that's what a bag of cats actually looks like."  I look forward to seeing Josh in 10 years, or so when things are slow enough for him that his decision making seems rational.

[ILBillsfan]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't know the answer to this, but the more I think about it, the more ironic it seems that someone is asking this question.  

 

The refrain around here is that McDermott is too conservative, that he punts when he should go for it, blah blah.   Now comes someone saying what was he doing, going for it?   

 

They're just decisions that a coach has to make all the time.  Some decisions work out, some don't.  

 

If I had to guess, here's what he was thinking:   Whether he punts or goes for it and doesn't make it, if the Eagles get one first down, the game is over.   So his chances aren't very good either way.  Going for it at least gives him two shots at it.   Maybe he gets a miracle on 4th and 27.  Maybe he gets a defensive penalty.   If he doesn't make it, other than field position, he's no worse off than he was.  If his defense doesn't hold, he's done.  If it does hold, he has a shot.   

the only thing is with the field position I think they would feel very conifident that the Texans would not pass pinned deep vs where they got the ball.  I was ready for a fake run with the TE over the top since the Bills were obviously selling out for the qb sneak

 

Incredible the Bills got the stop to get the ball back 

[familykwi]

20 minutes ago, Josh Allen is not the one said:

 

I don't understand the reasoning here.  A lot of people on here say that about our head coach or Josh Allen.  "He's right for Buffalo"  If he was white collar and not so tough, he couldn't be here?  I just want somebody here who is smart and understands the game.  I think McDermott is a great defensive coach.  As a head coach he's now 25-23, (0-2) in the playoffs.  That's a typical average head coach.  I want better.

 

I think what McD inherited has to be taken into consideration.  I think the 9-7 record year 1 was a miracle.  I also thought the 6-10 projections (on average) this year were a bit unfair.  I hoped for 10-6, but felt 8-8 was the low mark.  Although any loss is disappointing, we don't realistically expect an undefeated season either.  The one that gets me this year is Cleveland.  Otherwise, we took care of business when we were supposed to and lost when we were supposed to (the Jets game didn't matter).  Philly was the only time we were not competitive. 

 

I hope as he builds relationships that he's willing to be objective enough to do what needs to be done with personnel to keep us moving forward and annually relevant.  We need to continue to build so that we can be beat you in a variety of ways, including outscoring teams if the defense is not at their best, and we can endure injuries which we were fortunate to avoid this year.

 

Time will tell, but I've been far more excited to watch my team the last three years than the prior 20.  If it actually turns bad, lets revisit this, but for now let's enjoy relevance.