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The Bills Formula For Winning in 2019 Was Never Sustainable For Playoffs


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8 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

Smith and Gore are "reliable".  There are a number of plays where no one was blocked.  I want to know who's causing that.  Is Allen not responsible for spotting that?  If not Allen then who on the OL is not spotting that?  Why are people running completely unblocked into the backfield as much as they are.  The number of plays (running and passing) that blockers completely fail to block anyone is alarming.  Granted outside of Morse and Dawkins I'm not sure we have an OL player I'd pencil in as the starter for next season right now.  I'm no OL coach but many had Ford projecting as a guard and he was fairly well regarded when drafted but I'm going to say I sure hope we draft a tackle early next year.

People are going to break it down with stats both on offense and defense.  Truth is we could have won.  One or two plays on offense or defense and we could have won.  That is what the Pats had (I love saying it in past tense).  The killer instinct to take the victory.  If you didn't absolutely put your foot on their throat they'd find a way to win.  It was there, we just didn't take it.


In it’s simplest terms the defense finished above average but not perfect. The offense was below average. It’s not any kind of oddball slicing of stats or anything. It’s who we have been. It’s hard to expect the defense to always win.

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Look, Josh had over 370 yards of offense in this game.  He wasn't perfect but he got the Bills to OT and didn't throw the "blindside block" to knock them out of FG range or give up the first down on 3rd and 18.  Never mind the nullifying the TD on the return, the horrible officiating on the blindside block or lack of calls on Watt for RTP of that Texans defender for the helmet to helmet hit on that final drive.


what were his passing stats through 5 quarters against one of the worst pass defenses in the league?

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40 minutes ago, NoSaint said:


In the “collapse” they allowed 22 points in 3 quarters which is about average play for this league (24 and change across 4 being average). They also had a HUGE stop to get us the ball and a chance to win at the end of regulation, in a position they shouldn’t have been put in. 
 

It’s definitely a step down from pitching a shutout the first half but if the need is to shut out good opponents there’s a problem.
 

they were not perfect but the step back from GREAT, to relatively average, shouldn’t be the focal point of the discussion about what went wrong when our only TD In 5 quarters came on a busted coverage on a trick play.

 

the defense missed a few steps in the dance but wasn’t bad overall. The long conversion is an ugly play to point but perfection isn’t the expectation.  The offense stepped on toes, fell a few times and soiled themselves in the end.

 

Saint, average D won't get it done in the playoffs.  Everyone knows that, including McDermott, Frazier, and the D

 

To Phil's original point in his OP which is valid, the Bills formula for winning all season (shut-down D, just enough offense), I think, showed that it is NOT sustainable or sufficient to win in the playoffs or against the best teams.

 

They don't need to "shut out" good opponents, but there's space between giving up 2 TD drives plus a FG and a "shut out".  They absolutely played a major role in the loss, especially some key missed tackles and poor coverages in the 2nd half and OT.

 

Both sides of the ball "soiled themselves" IMO.  It was a true team loss.  It's also apparently a Rorschach test for bringing up people's biases.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, NoSaint said:


In it’s simplest terms the defense finished above average but not perfect. The offense was below average. It’s not any kind of oddball slicing of stats or anything. It’s who we have been. It’s hard to expect the defense to always win.


what were his passing stats through 5 quarters against one of the worst pass defenses in the league?

How many passes in scoring position were dropped? How many Jailbreak  pass rushes did he face? Why are we running Gore in 2nd and long positions inside the 30? Why until we got behind did we only throw 6 times in the second half? Why didn’t we run at all in overtime? You’re a broken record and a bad record at that.....

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2 hours ago, Heitz said:

Lotta truths in this thread.  Bottom line for me, is that we need more talent on the O, stat.

 

There will be endless threads and plenty of whining, but I think anyone who was paying attention knew we still needed more talent on offense. I’m good with what they accomplished this season, and always felt we were still one season away from being a serious challenger. 

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33 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So then you need to address the paradox that when they do "put it on his shoulders", he either comes through or comes very close.  He got us in position to tie the game and send it to OT.  He got it down to the last play against the Ravens and NE where arguably a better route and a jump ball receiver might win it.

 

If anything, that would argue that the "trying to hide him" (if that's what the coaches are doing) is mistaken. 

 

How many pass plays were called in the 2nd half?  How many rush plays?  How successful were the pass plays?  How successful were the rush plays? 

 

 

You need to present an argument that it's Josh that's the issue here.  So far, you haven't.  It's just a repeated assertion.  "Josh hasn't been able to keep up with".  But then the paradoxical assertion that the coaches go all conservative and run run run because they're hiding Josh (who can't keep up, but doesn't get the chance, until he does then sometimes he can and sometimes he can't?) 

 

I can't keep up (with your line of reasoning)

 

 

And you're entitled to your opinion, but if you're going to state it over and over again, it needs to have something more given behind it.  Allen generated something like 82% of our offense yesterday.  361 out of 425 yards.  He took a bad sack and a bad fumble.  He also had crap protection by our OL most of the day and WR who couldn't get their feet down or hang on to a ball.

 

He has improved in a number of measurable metrics through the season.  His fumbling is a problem he needs to address, and he needs to take another step with accuracy.  It's always been reasonable to question whether he'll turn the corner and become a better QB, because when a player has a problem, sometimes they fix it, and sometimes they don't.

 

But what exactly is there about last night that's such a revelation?

 

 


He has improved a number of measurable metrics but that still puts him in the bottom half of the league in those measurable metrics.  
 

I just thought that last night was a great opportunity for Allen to turn the corner and to put up points against a weak defense, he didn’t do that.  
 

It doesn’t mean he won’t get there but yesterday was a missed opportunity for growth and some wonder whether this is Josh regressing to the mean.  Back to “Wyoming Josh.”  It doesn’t mean that’s what happened,  but this should be the #1 concern for Bills fans going forward.  

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3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Defense and running the ball wins playoff games.  In the second half our D let down and we quit letting Motor and Allen run.

This right here^^^

Daboll went away from what was working, and not for the first time.

 

Go Bills!!!

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3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

One thing I’ll remember from the year is that other than the odd game against the Eagles, the Bills never lost by more than a single score, including yesterday. That’s pretty remarkable over a long season.

 

Schedule was easy. That is why. Next year we face the NFC and AFC West. It's going to be a whole different story. No more Duck Hodges and Brandon Allen. Pat freaking Mahomes and Russell Wilson. 

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3 minutes ago, Elite Poster said:

 

Schedule was easy. That is why. Next year we face the NFC and AFC West. It's going to be a whole different story. No more Duck Hodges and Brandon Allen. Pat freaking Mahomes and Russell Wilson. 


I actually think the defense will be okay but they aren’t going to be able to keep teams under 20 points.  
 

That is where we need to see Josh take a step forward as a QB and essentially do what he couldn’t do last night, and the main reason why I’m concerned 

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3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Defense and running the ball wins playoff games.  In the second half our D let down and we quit letting Motor and Allen run.

 

...not sure if it is as simple as that.......offensively you have to be more than a "one trick pony" IMO....ned a diversified, effective offense that allows you to take what the defense is giving you....60/40 pass-run, 40-60 pass-run or whatever, with the ability to quickly adjust.....far too inconsistent in 2019 and prematurely abandoning what is working...

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And yet the team had a 16-0 lead on a division winner in the playoffs with less than a half of football to go. The coaches and players blew this one, there just isn’t any other way to spin it. Now, it’s quite likely that their playoff road would have ended at Arrowhead stadium . The offensive deficiencies we’ve all seen this season may have been too much to overcome. The Bills, however were not overmatched vs HOU. I will agree that going forward, offensive improvements are necessary and your premise is valid. That doesn’t excuse them from not securing the franchise’s first playoff win in 25 years this weekend. 

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4 minutes ago, Elite Poster said:

 

Schedule was easy. That is why. Next year we face the NFC and AFC West. It's going to be a whole different story. No more Duck Hodges and Brandon Allen. Pat freaking Mahomes and Russell Wilson. 

Next year we won’t need an easy schedule to win the AFCE. Yes, it was nice to get this far a year ahead of schedule. Moving forward, the Bills ought to be able to hold their own against anybody, anytime.

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2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...not sure if it is as simple as that.......offensively you have to be more than a "one trick pony" IMO....ned a diversified, effective offense that allows you to take what the defense is giving you....60/40 pass-run, 40-60 pass-run or whatever, with the ability to quickly adjust.....far too inconsistent in 2019 and prematurely abandoning what is working...

Balance.  You're Right.  But that balance has to include the run and we gave up in that later in the game.

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1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

This is patently untrue at worst and grossly exaggerated at best.

 

 

You have been a strong critic of Allen and you are doing nothing more with this post than to say, "See how right I was?" and gloating after a loss. If what you need at this moment is to pat yourself on the back, have at it. It feels a bit unnecessary; however, it is your right.

 

 

I actually haven’t been that strong of an Allen critic. I really liked his play on the whole from NE1 onward. I just critiqued the things worth critiquing, like a few big missed passes, dumb decisions, etc.

 

And no, it’s no exaggerated. There’s 15 pages of arguments that “our defense didn’t carry us.” It’s really all out there.

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3 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

After a big loss like last night, fans are obviously going to be pointing fingers.  Everyone has one unit or person to blame, and the truth it’s never just a player, a coach, or an official.  It’s usually a combination of all.  We can blame whoever we want (personally I think Allen melted down in the second half) but that’s what happened last night - a total team loss.  

 

 

It would be foolish and shortsighted to think that this is how McDermott wants to win.  I think that given how bad the offense has been, he knows that this is the Bills best chance to win, which likely explains some of the play calls.  They just don’t have an offense that can score more than 17 points, and again, I think QB play is a huge reason for this.  

 

 

Why does this happen?  It’s largely a mix between execution and playcalling.  Again, I’m going to be accused of being a “hater” or a “crusader” as it’s called in here - but I think the biggest reason why has to do with Josh Allen not having the ability (yet?) to show that he can consistently finish drives with TD’s in moments when they need him to, like Watson did last night.  While it isn’t all on Josh, his teammates have let him down too and you can argue some of the play calls haven’t put them in a good position.  
 

For the Bills to get better, this will have to improve and the team should improve the offensive talent  in the offseason again.  
 

But 2020 will be a giant year.  All the usual suspects should be back next year - McDermott, Daboll, Allen, and there won’t be any excuses next year.  
 

It’s put up or shut up and the excuses of this being “a young team that is growing” is running out.  Onto 2020.

 

...I'm not convinced that McDermott hates to win via "coach fearful"......he is a defensive guy FIRST (not to be confused with Teddy Marchibroda; ditto for Daboll).....acknowledging a weaker 2019 schedule, Daboll was FAR too inconsistent overall.....I'm just not going to buy "it's the personnel stupid"......you coach to your personnel's strengths (and of course the apologists will say, "but they have NO strengths"; um ok)......McBeane has $90+ mil available and a bevy of picks.....secondly (at least on paper so far; have no idea what transpires in off season relative to opposition rosters), 2020 schedule appears to be much tougher.....so if, IF McBeane prioritizes the offense via draft & FA, supplying McDermott with a significant talent upgrade and we're STILL stuck in "coach fearful" mode, a/k/a FG fest and <20 pts modus operandi, now what??..........

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40 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

How many passes in scoring position were dropped? How many Jailbreak  pass rushes did he face? Why are we running Gore in 2nd and long positions inside the 30? Why until we got behind did we only throw 6 times in the second half? Why didn’t we run at all in overtime? You’re a broken record and a bad record at that.....


his coach called it out and it’s unreasonable to acknowledge his troubles here? 
 

he had an extra quarter against a bad defense and didn’t get it done in the air. He was a bigger issue than the defense.

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3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

I actually haven’t been that strong of an Allen critic. I really liked his play on the whole from NE1 onward. I just critiqued the things worth critiquing, like a few big missed passes, dumb decisions, etc.

 

And no, it’s no exaggerated. There’s 15 pages of arguments that “our defense didn’t carry us.” It’s really all out there.

My apologies then.

 

As to the other, I really don't recall arguments that the offense carried this team. I do recall discussions that it wasn't JUST the defense that carried the team - that the offense helped to win a number of those games as well, which they did. I don't think any reasonable poster would conclude that it was the offense that contributed the most to their record this year.

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10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Balance.  You're Right.  But that balance has to include the run and we gave up in that later in the game.

 

 

...isn't that Dabumble's secret?.......if it's working, abandon it........"Brian, Jimmy Haslam is on line one"....................

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1 hour ago, clayboy54 said:

Next year we won’t need an easy schedule to win the AFCE. Yes, it was nice to get this far a year ahead of schedule. Moving forward, the Bills ought to be able to hold their own against anybody, anytime.

 

Scoring 19 points a game? Yeah I'll believe it when I see it. 

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4 hours ago, NoSaint said:


conventional wisdom IS that you get the stars AND depth right now. Pretty much every team with a young qb does it for a reason. 
 

for some reason a lot of our base prefers we remain modest and scrappy instead.

Do you think the Bills are intentionally not drafting players who may become stars? Or are you looking for them to trade their next draft along with $200m on a guy like Khalil Mack?

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So again, to illustrate my point Minnesota was up 20-10 in the 4th quarter.  New Orleans found a way to tie up the game.   You can’t fault the Minnesota for letting them tie it up....this is what good teams do.

But Minnesota responded with a TD in overtime- led by Kirk Cousins.  This is what was missing in the Bills game

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7 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

One thing I’ll remember from the year is that other than the odd game against the Eagles, the Bills never lost by more than a single score, including yesterday. That’s pretty remarkable over a long season.

 

 

The eagles game cam down to a few plays.  The 65 yd TD the D gave up. Allen’s turnover late 1st inside own 25 getting the eagles 8 pts.  That don’t happen buffalo prbsblup 14-3 mid 3rd.

 

all season buffalo got a lead thrn they go conservative in play calling protecting the lead.  You can’t do that with just a 2 score lead unless it’s mid 4th.

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8 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

After a big loss like last night, fans are obviously going to be pointing fingers.  Everyone has one unit or person to blame, and the truth it’s never just a player, a coach, or an official.  It’s usually a combination of all.  We can blame whoever we want (personally I think Allen melted down in the second half) but that’s what happened last night - a total team loss.  

 

But last night was also the perfect example

of how so many games played out this season - especially against good teams.   The formula for winning is based on the defenses ability to hold teams under 17-20 points.  This is a problem because in the playoffs you’ll be playing good offenses and this is unlikely.  
 

If the defense slips up a little and is unable to limit a team to under 17 points, the Bills usually lose.   Outside of Miami, the Bills have never won a game when the opponent have scored more than 17 points.  We’re not talking blowouts either.  The offense has not been good enough to score more than 20 points in almost every game this year.  It happened again last night.  
 

It would be foolish and shortsighted to think that this is how McDermott wants to win.  I think that given how bad the offense has been, he knows that this is the Bills best chance to win, which likely explains some of the play calls.  They just don’t have an offense that can score more than 17 points, and again, I think QB play is a huge reason for this.  


I also do think he deserves credit for winning 10 games with an underperforming offense.  The overall coaching job this year has been great. 

 

Take a look:

 

N.Y. Jets

W 17-16

N.Y. Giants

W 28-14

Cincinnati

W 21-17

New England

L 16-10

Tennessee

W 14-7

Miami

W 31-21

Philadelphia

L 31-13

Washington

W 24-9

Cleveland

L 19-16

Miami

W 37-20

Denver

W 20-3

Dallas

W 26-15

Baltimore

L 24-17

PittsburgH

W 17-10

New England

L 24-17

 

Why does this happen?  It’s largely a mix between execution and playcalling.  Again, I’m going to be accused of being a “hater” or a “crusader” as it’s called in here - but I think the biggest reason why has to do with Josh Allen not having the ability (yet?) to show that he can consistently finish drives with TD’s in moments when they need him to, like Watson did last night.  While it isn’t all on Josh, his teammates have let him down too and you can argue some of the play calls haven’t put them in a good position.  
 

For the Bills to get better, this will have to improve and the team should improve the offensive talent  in the offseason again.  
 

But 2020 will be a giant year.  All the usual suspects should be back next year - McDermott, Daboll, Allen, and there won’t be any excuses next year.  
 

It’s put up or shut up and the excuses of this being “a young team that is growing” is running out.  Onto 2020.

They better pull their heads out of their collective butts and start really upgrading the offense. Guys like Kroft and 5' nothing Beasley is not my idea of upgrading. And frankly the oline wasn't improved that much either. Our draft and FA better be dripping with quality offensive players. 

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19 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Winning teams thus far in the playoffs in regulation: 19, 14, 20.

 

Defense matters in the playoffs.


Defense does matter but so does an offense that can score points and not just nurse leads.

 

Both Buffalo and Minnesota got off to 10 point leads and stopped scoring for the rest of regulation.  This allowed the opponent to get back into the game.  
 

Defense matters, but at some point you need to score points on offense 

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Just now, Phil The Thrill said:


Defense does matter but so does an offense that can score points and not just nurse leads.

 

Both Buffalo and Minnesota got off to 10 point leads and stopped scoring for the rest of regulation.  This allowed the opponent to get back into the game.  
 

Defense matters, but at some point you need to score points on offense 

Yep.  Like around 19-20.  I agree though we got too conservative.  McD needs to come to grips with that in the offseason.

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15 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

They better pull their heads out of their collective butts and start really upgrading the offense. Guys like Kroft and 5' nothing Beasley is not my idea of upgrading. And frankly the oline wasn't improved that much either. Our draft and FA better be dripping with quality offensive players. 

I started a thread about the o-line and received the usual brain dead responses as usual on this board. Don’t go against the narrative you will be ridiculed. But make no mistake, the online is still a problem.

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7 hours ago, NoSaint said:


we gave up 2 touchdowns in 3 quarters after half time. This wasn’t an epic defensive collapse. It was an above average game from the unit. They shouldn’t have to be historically good at all times.

I thought this as well. I felt the D played more than well enough to win. If you can hold a playoff team with that type of star power to 18 points in their house, what more do you want? The coaches did not trust Josh more than the D. They should've let him ball like the half but decided to protect instead of increase point production. 

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1 hour ago, djp14150 said:

 

 

The eagles game cam down to a few plays.  The 65 yd TD the D gave up. Allen’s turnover late 1st inside own 25 getting the eagles 8 pts.  That don’t happen buffalo prbsblup 14-3 mid 3rd.

 

all season buffalo got a lead thrn they go conservative in play calling protecting the lead.  You can’t do that with just a 2 score lead unless it’s mid 4th.


The question is, do they go conservative because Josh Allen isn’t able to win games with his arm?

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51 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:


The question is, do they go conservative because Josh Allen isn’t able to win games with his arm?

It is not that.  McD seems to have it in his head once up on a team to rely on his defense to carry them to victory and he and Daboll go conservative.  That thinking will win in the regular season but not in the playoffs.  They have to change the mind set.  Be aggressive for the whole game or until it is iced.  

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14 hours ago, SCBills said:

Allen and Singletary were our entire offense.   
 

A second year QB and a rookie RB.  
 

Josh had 264 yards passing, 92 yards rushing and a TD reception.  
 

Singletary was our leading RECEIVER.  (Huh?)

 

We desperately need some upgrades on Offense, and these stats, in a playoff game, could not be more eye opening.  
 

You are correct in how the game was coached.  Get up 2 scores, then limit mistakes and hope the defense holds.  Not going for the jugular haunted them, and they better have learned their lesson.   I do think, with improved talent, next year they will. 
 

 

 

and yet you have delusional fans on this forum who want to sign a high priced pass rusher and draft defense lol

 

we need to throw our entire cap space and use the first 3 picks on offense. Beane needs to stop bringing mediocre talent here. 

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Nonsense. Defense, avoiding turnovers and efficient offense wins in the playoffs. They just need to get younger and faster at the pass rushing positions and add a WR to make a few big plays a game. 

Of course, Allen needs to keep getting better. If he regresses against better teams next year they won't make the playoffs. 

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15 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

After a big loss like last night, fans are obviously going to be pointing fingers.  Everyone has one unit or person to blame, and the truth it’s never just a player, a coach, or an official.  It’s usually a combination of all.  We can blame whoever we want (personally I think Allen melted down in the second half) but that’s what happened last night - a total team loss.  

 

But last night was also the perfect example

of how so many games played out this season - especially against good teams.   The formula for winning is based on the defenses ability to hold teams under 17-20 points.  This is a problem because in the playoffs you’ll be playing good offenses and this is unlikely.  
 

If the defense slips up a little and is unable to limit a team to under 17 points, the Bills usually lose.   Outside of Miami, the Bills have never won a game when the opponent have scored more than 17 points.  We’re not talking blowouts either.  The offense has not been good enough to score more than 20 points in almost every game this year.  It happened again last night.  
 

It would be foolish and shortsighted to think that this is how McDermott wants to win.  I think that given how bad the offense has been, he knows that this is the Bills best chance to win, which likely explains some of the play calls.  They just don’t have an offense that can score more than 17 points, and again, I think QB play is a huge reason for this.  


I also do think he deserves credit for winning 10 games with an underperforming offense.  The overall coaching job this year has been great. 

 

Take a look:

 

N.Y. Jets

W 17-16

N.Y. Giants

W 28-14

Cincinnati

W 21-17

New England

L 16-10

Tennessee

W 14-7

Miami

W 31-21

Philadelphia

L 31-13

Washington

W 24-9

Cleveland

L 19-16

Miami

W 37-20

Denver

W 20-3

Dallas

W 26-15

Baltimore

L 24-17

PittsburgH

W 17-10

New England

L 24-17

 

Why does this happen?  It’s largely a mix between execution and playcalling.  Again, I’m going to be accused of being a “hater” or a “crusader” as it’s called in here - but I think the biggest reason why has to do with Josh Allen not having the ability (yet?) to show that he can consistently finish drives with TD’s in moments when they need him to, like Watson did last night.  While it isn’t all on Josh, his teammates have let him down too and you can argue some of the play calls haven’t put them in a good position.  
 

For the Bills to get better, this will have to improve and the team should improve the offensive talent  in the offseason again.  
 

But 2020 will be a giant year.  All the usual suspects should be back next year - McDermott, Daboll, Allen, and there won’t be any excuses next year.  
 

It’s put up or shut up and the excuses of this being “a young team that is growing” is running out.  Onto 2020.

We need more weapons on offense, your point is right on. The offense is simply not good enough to win in the playoffs. 

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43 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Nonsense. Defense, avoiding turnovers and efficient offense wins in the playoffs. They just need to get younger and faster at the pass rushing positions and add a WR to make a few big plays a game. 

Of course, Allen needs to keep getting better. If he regresses against better teams next year they won't make the playoffs. 

Said it all year. I feel like the 7 sacks are slightly misleading because once they figured out their protection and Houston got hot, they really weren't doing enough to actually bring Watson DOWN or forcing him into bad decisions. The defense didn't really do enough to force QB's into poor decisions all season. Coverage unit is fine, which is why they were excellent against the pass, but BAD decisions by opposing QB's create turnovers. Didn't do that nearly enough.

 

Elite defenses don't give up that last TD drive to Cleveland nor do they allow Houston to march up and down the field late in the playoff game. The missing element is an elite edge player. They don't have one. Hughes is good. Murphy had a good game. There's just not "that guy." This missing element is the reason the Bills didn't flip field with turnovers. They got extremely lucky with the schedule because they faced bad QB's the majority of the season. They're gonna have to add this type of player somehow, some way, if they're going to be elite defensively.

 

That being said, Allen also needs to get better. The personnel needs to be upgraded to make that more feasible, but he's GOT to improve the cerebral aspects of his game if this team is going to improve and make a run next season against a much tougher schedule.

 

Front 7 disrupter on defense. Better play at RT and LG. Better offensive weaponary. Allen improving. All of these things need to happen.

Edited by LSHMEAB
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