Allen or Watson ( Who would you rather have leading your team Saturday)

[Figster]

2 hours ago, Watkins101 said:

Okay, but when will that potential be realized? Saturday? Highly unlikely. This question is about one game only, not which player you want for next season even.

I understand, 

 

Being the big homer that I am,

 

I'll still take Josh...

[NewEra]

30 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

My point is that Watson's offensive weapons are better then Allens.....period

Both the good and the bad on that to be honest.....like nobody but Josh Allen ever throws a bad pass.....or holds the ball to long and takes a sack.......or watch as offensive weapons cant get separation while other teams have more offensive talent....or

 

Well....you get it

So, who do you think is a better QB?  Watson or Allen?

 

well.  You get it too.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

So, who do you think is a better QB?  Watson or Allen?

 

well.  You get it too.

My point is its not as simple as that.....one has some better stats....but also has better complimentary weapons?

 

What do you think Allen would do with a double threat like Hopkins and Fuller THIS year?   Do you think he would have better numbers?

 

I do.  Not that Josh Allens numbers are horrible HUGE jump from last year to this.

[Franco_92]

Watson is, of course, the better QB right now.

 

But this is the NFL playoffs. This is our buffalo bills. I will answer this question with nobody but our guy, Josh Allen.

[rayray808]

I would literally give Josh Allen the "Coming to America" jacuzzi special... but right now Watson is the better QB - and itʻs not even close

[NewEra]

25 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

My point is its not as simple as that.....one has some better stats....but also has better complimentary weapons?

 

What do you think Allen would do with a double threat like Hopkins and Fuller THIS year?   Do you think he would have better numbers?

 

I do.  Not that Josh Allens numbers are horrible HUGE jump from last year to this.

Behind that Houston OL, I’m not so sure John.  Watson diagnosis the defenses much quicker than allen imo.  He’s not always throwing to Hopkins and fuller is usually hurt or dropping passes.  Sure, he has better weapons but a much worse OL.....and a crap coach if you ask me

 

so basically your saying there is no way to tell who the better qb is because we can’t accurately predict what each QB would do in the others situation.  Same can be said for every QB that had great weapons.  Hell, John Brown could’ve been Jerry Rice if he was playing with the niners in the 80S and 90s 

Edited January 2, 2020 by NewEra

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I see we have 72 pretenders

 

 

[Albany,n.y.]

I'll take Allen because Watson doesn't know the Bills playbook and at this stage would have 2 days to learn a new offense.  

[John from Riverside]

9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Behind that Houston OL, I’m not so sure John.  Watson diagnosis the defenses much quicker than allen imo.  He’s not always throwing to Hopkins and fuller is usually hurt or dropping passes.  Sure, he has better weapons but a much worse OL.....and a crap coach if you ask me

 

so basically your saying there is no way to tell who the better qb is because we can’t accurately predict what each QB would do in the others situation.  Same can be said for every QB that had great weapons.  Hell, John Brown could’ve been Jerry Rice if he was playing with the niners in the 80S and 90s 

Maybe i am reading the question wrong.

 

When I evaluate I also think how Watson would do with our team?   I dont automatically assume he would do better but that is just me.

 

 

[NewEra]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

Maybe i am reading the question wrong.

 

When I evaluate I also think how Watson would do with our team?   I dont automatically assume he would do better but that is just me.

 

 

I hear ya.  It’s not so much who is the better AB, but who’s better for us this Saturday.  If we got to keep that qb going forward, I’d pick Watson.
 

 The question of which qb would do better for us will never be answered.

[BringBackOrton]

Josh Allen gas leak strikes again.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

My point is that Watson's offensive weapons are better then Allens.....period

 

 

His line though is most definitely not and his defense flat out sucks. 

[billsfan1959]

 

12 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 But no one but bills fans would take Allen over Watson at this point.  

I salute the way Bills fans defend their qb with every excuse and rip down other teams.  Come on, you’re reaching hard.  But I’m bowing out. I just hope the Bills are better than the Texans (and they might be). 

 

10 hours ago, jrober38 said:

Shocking how many people don't seem to watch anyone but the Bills play football. 

 

3 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Josh Allen gas leak strikes again.

 

I agree that Watson is a better QB at this point. However; I don't think the three of you ever saw a QB you DIDN'T think was better than Allen. You talk about Bills' fans being homers and, yet, you are rarely objective yourselves when it comes to evaluating him.

[BigBuff423]

This is a relevant topic, IMHO, and one worthy of discussion even more than the overplayed Mahomes v. Allen discussion. And in this case, in my mind, it comes down to long-term vs. short term. To me Watson was the guy who would come in and have the RGIII effect: win early and often, but struggle down the stretch. I may be wrong about Watson (probably am), but I still think he's in the arena of an athlete who can throw the ball over a long-term NFL QB. That is NOT to say I don't think he can play QB or that he isn't an incredible talent, but similarly to Lamar, I have my reservations about Watson's "career" ability to sustain NFL success.

 

Josh Allen is the antithesis to this IMHO. Josh was going to need time to grow, mature, and learn how to play QB at the NFL but has all of the tools and abilities to get that done based on his growth thus far. Had you asked me this question two years ago, I don't know that I could have said it this way with this much internal confidence. However, I think Watson is who he is and he's already peaked in terms of realizing what he can do - which is good to great if he can sustain it. Josh Allen's ceiling has yet to be within sight, again IMO. I don't think we've yet seen what he's fully capable of and I don't think we will until this time next year and as far as fullest potential, it might even be year 4. The growth for some of the best QBs take drastic steps in years three and four and it wouldn't surprise me at all if this were true for Josh Allen. I think Josh has the more sustainable paradigm in his game for success while Watson may  or may not be able to sustain his QB style and due to how he hasn't changed his game since he arrived, I doubt it will change much if any more moving forward. So I take Josh Allen due to the long-term viability and to me, likelihood of sustainable success. 

 

Edit: I didn't make this clear in my original post so I'll say that yes, I take Josh Allen for this Saturday because IMO this isn't a one year wonder for the Bills to make the playoffs and Allen *NEEDS* this game to grow even more....to prepare him for the playoff years to come, which I definitely believe can and will happen for the Bills. Compounding this thought with my aforementioned opinions, Allen is the better play for this game because of the future.

Edited January 2, 2020 by BigBuff423

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Deshaun Watson on our team and we’re the 1 seed and the favorite to win it all

 

That being said I love me some Josh Allen and I’m going to war with my boy every time.

[teef]

7 hours ago, arcane said:

Watson is, of course, the better QB right now.

 

But this is the NFL playoffs. This is our buffalo bills. I will answer this question with nobody but our guy, Josh Allen.

this is where i'm at with it too.  if josh becomes the guy who we want him to be, i'll think he'll have the more successful career and could be the better leader.  he's not there yet, but it doesn't stop me from being a big fan of his.

[NoSaint]

11 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

And more interceptions and more sacks. I notice how you keep those out. 
 

 

fact I would rather have Nuk Hopkins over Watson 

im not sure 1 more interception every 5 games counters all those. It’s an interesting trade out. 
 

id take josh throwing 3 more (heck, more than that even) if it bumped everything else that much,

[Moulds 808080]

NO BRAINER Allen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I'm a total allen fanboy - but I'd feel a lot more comfortable with needing a big game out of watson vs. allen.  

[Maynard]

Watson is the better QB right now and yes he has much better weapons.  However, I think Allen will surpass him within the next year or two as we accumulate more weapons on the offense. To me it’s about the future, so I’ll go with Allen. 

[BuffaloSol]

14 hours ago, elijah said:

If you’re choosing Allen over Watson you’re blinding yourself as a Bills fan. 

 

This shouldn’t be a debate. 

 

Im as big of an Allen supporter as there is, but Watson is primed to be one of the best in the league for a long long time. 

You're not an Allen supporter. We get it you think he isn't going to be good. You probably thought that pre draft and now have to defend your stance.

[dave mcbride]

Watson has an extremely high 8.1 ypa average over his first three seasons (37 games). Since I regard ypa as probably the most important stat in terms of judging a qb, the case to me seems to be pretty well closed. Allen’s is 6.6, btw. As for TD/INT ratio, watson’s is 71/29 and Allen’s is 30/21. Watson also led the Texans to a victory over NE, something Allen hasn’t done yet.

Edited January 2, 2020 by dave mcbride

[thebandit27]

Right now Watson is the better player, but it’s a lot closer than I expected it to be even 2 months ago.

[Orlando Tim]

14 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Watson's very good, better than Allen as of right now, but I've seen him be just as inconsistent w/mechanics and poor play and that's with MUCH better guys to work with. 

 

This Texans team in general is totally schizophrenic. Give me the Bills and Allen this Saturday and going forward too.

This is where I am- I have only watched a few games of Texans in the past two years but I see a guy in Watson who is not consistent during the game. He is good but certainly not elite.

[BuffaloSol]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Watson has an extremely 8.1 ypa average over his first three seasons (37 games). Since I regard ypa as probably the most important stat in terms of judging a qb, the case to me seems to be pretty well closed. Allen’s is 6.6, btw. As for TD/INT ratio, watson’s is 71/29 and Allen’s is 30/21. Watson also led the Texans to a victory over NE, something Allen hasn’t done yet.

Oh I love comparing guys drafted the same year in the same offensive system.

[C.Biscuit97]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If I pick Watson, do Deandre Hopkins, Will Fuller, and Carlos Hyde come too?

 

I wax Biblical when it comes to Deandre Hopkins.  I Covet him.

Hap, you are touting Hyde (who has been passed around the league like a hockey puck and just has the best season of his career with Watson) and Fuller (he averages like 500 yards a season because he is as durable at Glass Goodwin) as major reasons for Watson’s success?  
 

it’s great to be hikers but it’s also ok to be objective and realistic.  We are comparing Allen to a guy who is off to one of the greatest qb starts in nfl history, who is at times a top 5 qb after being one of the greatest college qbs ever.  He is absolutely much better than Allen at this point.  Luckily, it takes more than one player to win a game and the Bills might be better as a team than the Texans.  But some of these posts are out there.  

[BarleyNY]

9 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

My point is that Watson's offensive weapons are better then Allens.....period

 

Outside of QB the only two offensive players on Houston that I take over ours are Hopkins and Tunsil.  That’s it.  The rest of their OL is poor.  Their TEs are a joke and their RBs are pedestrian.  I’d take Beasley over Fuller in the slot and Smoke over Stills.

 

As for QB, Hopkins is a top 10 QB in this league.  Allen is not close to that today.  But I think he still might be okay on Saturday.  Romeo  Crennel likes to play a disciplined, but passive 3-4 with a lot of zone.  That’s exactly what Allen thrives against so we might have a really favorable matchup in this game.  I like our chances to get the W.

[kbarrettb]

Watson

67% completion 

3800 yards passing

26 tds

 

Allen 

58% completion

3000 yards passing

20 tds

 

as of right now it’s Watson he’s been consistently better during his career than Allen and it’s not really close. Doesn’t mean Allen won’t get to Watson’s level but as of now he’s not there.  

If we had Watson playing quarterback for us right now like someone else said we’d be at worst a number 2 seed. 

Edited January 2, 2020 by kbarrettb

[colin]

watson is sick and to date is clearly a better qb than allen.

 

i'll give the future to allen tho, his raw talent and energy are off the charts, and watson has the benefit of much better college prep and much much better weapons through out his career (imagine fuller and hopkins over benjamin and zay jones for allens first year and this year?!!  watson's protection was trash last year, but ours was perhaps just a tiny bit less trash, i won't say better).

 

as far as who is better today?  we'll find out on saturday.

 

[thebandit27]

32 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Hap, you are touting Hyde (who has been passed around the league like a hockey puck and just has the best season of his career with Watson) and Fuller (he averages like 500 yards a season because he is as durable at Glass Goodwin) as major reasons for Watson’s success?  
 

it’s great to be hikers but it’s also ok to be objective and realistic.  We are comparing Allen to a guy who is off to one of the greatest qb starts in nfl history, who is at times a top 5 qb after being one of the greatest college qbs ever.  He is absolutely much better than Allen at this point.  Luckily, it takes more than one player to win a game and the Bills might be better as a team than the Texans.  But some of these posts are out there.  

let’s be fair here...

 

Hyde is having his best season as a pro. That helps a lot.

 

Fuller may be perpetually banged up, but there’s no denying how impactful he is when he’s on the field. He’s been Watson’s most reliable deep threat. He also has had enormous games in the past 2 years—he had 14 receptions in week 5 alone.

[IgotBILLStopay]

15 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Agreed

 

A football conversation with somebody saying they'd rather have Watson sparked this interest in me

 

Nice poll. I could go either way. But I like Tre plus JA over Watson for sure.

[atlbillsfan1975]

15 minutes ago, kbarrettb said:

Watson

67% completion 

3800 yards passing

26 tds

 

Allen 

58% completion

3000 yards passing

20 tds

 

as of right now it’s Watson he’s been consistently better during his career than Allen and it’s not really close. Doesn’t mean Allen won’t get to Watson’s level but as of now he’s not there.  

If we had Watson playing quarterback for us right now like someone else said we’d be at worst a number 2 seed. 

I don’t think the Bills were ready to draft a QB in 2017. I know that may sound silly, but I really think Beane and McDermott wanted to build a team together. Beane wasn’t drafting players in 2017. I do believe Beane and McDermott knew 2018 would have some very good QB talent as well. 
Watson played at Clemson and played against the best competition in the country twice against Bama. Watson beat Nick Saban the second time around. Watson is a gamer. No doubt about it. I think Watson is a finished product. I don’t think he will get much better than what he is now. Watson also has an offensive minded HC who has surrounded Watson with great WR’s and other pieces on the offense. 
 

Allen is in his second season of facing major talent. Allen is in his first season of being surrounded by competent talent on offense. I don’t think we know what Allen’s ceiling is yet. 
 

I think Watson and Allen will have great careers. I wouldn’t be surprised if both of them win a SB and an MVP.
 

Edited January 2, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975

[MJS]

Both QB's are at a different point in their careers. Allen is younger and more inexperienced, but developing quickly. Watson is already established as a franchise QB, but the Texans haven't performed in the post season despite making it every year in a weak division.

 

Do you take the guy who has been really good in the regular season but hasn't shown he can get the job done in the post season, or do you take the younger, developing QB who has shown flashes and seems to play his best in crunch time?

 

Since this is a Bills message board the poll results reflect that, but I suspect if this was done nationally Watson would win in a landslide.

[C.Biscuit97]

16 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

let’s be fair here...

 

Hyde is having his best season as a pro. That helps a lot.

 

Fuller may be perpetually banged up, but there’s no denying how impactful he is when he’s on the field. He’s been Watson’s most reliable deep threat. He also has had enormous games in the past 2 years—he had 14 receptions in week 5 alone.

Hyde is having his best season because he benefits from playing with Watson.  No one fears Hyde.  They fear the Texans passing attack so Hyde rarely sees 8 guys in the box.  He is a dime a dozen rb. 
 

and I agree Fuller is talent but he can’t stay healthy and averages 500 yards/ season.  Hard to say a guy like that is a major reason for Watson’s success.

[kbarrettb]

12 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I don’t think the Bills were ready to draft a QB in 2017. I know that may sound silly, but I really think Beane and McDermott wanted to build a team together. Beane wasn’t drafting players in 2017. I do believe Beane and McDermott knew 2018 would have some very good QB talent as well. 
Watson played at Clemson and played against the best competition in the country twice against Bama. Watson beat Nick Saban the second time around. Watson is a gamer. No doubt about it. I think Watson is a finished product. I don’t think he will get much better than what he is now. Watson also has an offensive minded HC who has surrounded Watson with great WR’s and other pieces on the offense. 
 

Allen is in his second season of facing major talent. Allen is in his first season of being surrounded by competent talent on offense. I don’t think we know what Allen’s ceiling is yet. 
 

I think Watson and Allen will have great careers. I wouldn’t be surprised if both of them win a SB and an MVP.
 

 

11 minutes ago, MJS said:

Both QB's are at a different point in their careers. Allen is younger and more inexperienced, but developing quickly. Watson is already established as a franchise QB, but the Texans haven't performed in the post season despite making it every year in a weak division.

 

Do you take the guy who has been really good in the regular season but hasn't shown he can get the job done in the post season, or do you take the younger, developing QB who has shown flashes and seems to play his best in crunch time?

 

Since this is a Bills message board the poll results reflect that, but I suspect if this was done nationally Watson would win in a landslide.

The question isn’t who is going to end up with better numbers at the end of their career it’s who would you want on Saturday which means who’s the better quarterback right now. And the better quarterback right now is unquestionably Watson. The Bills probably have the better team and I think they have a great chance to win Saturday. If you put Watson on the Bills and Allen on the Texans for the season the Bills would be a touchdown plus favorite over the Texans.  

Edited January 2, 2020 by kbarrettb

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, kbarrettb said:

 

The question isn’t who is going to end up with better numbers at the end of their career it’s who would you want on Saturday which means who’s the better quarterback right now. And the better quarterback right now is unquestionably Watson. The Bills probably have the better team and I think they have a great chance to win Saturday. If you put Watson on the Bills and Allen on the Texans for the season the Bills would be a touchdown plus favorite over the Texans.  

That's your opinion. Watson looked pretty poor in his lone playoff game. Allen has shown he performs best in crunch time and in big games.

 

I voted for Watson, but I can certainly see why Bills fans would vote for their QB.

[kbarrettb]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

That's your opinion. Watson looked pretty poor in his lone playoff game. Allen has shown he performs best in crunch time and in big games.

 

I voted for Watson, but I can certainly see why Bills fans would vote for their QB.

Anyone can vote for anyone. But the stats over the course of the season clearly states one qb is better than the other. On one day someone can be better we’ve seen that. 
 

If Allen had the season Watson had this year this team would have probably won the division. 67>58

[thebandit27]

23 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Hyde is having his best season because he benefits from playing with Watson.  No one fears Hyde.  They fear the Texans passing attack so Hyde rarely sees 8 guys in the box.  He is a dime a dozen rb. 
 

and I agree Fuller is talent but he can’t stay healthy and averages 500 yards/ season.  Hard to say a guy like that is a major reason for Watson’s success.

how sure are you that that’s true about Hyde?

 

According to NextGen, he’s facing 8+ in the box on 14.6 percent of his snaps. That’s actually a higher percentage than the previous best season of his career (2016 - 12.9%).
 

Ironically, the guy that benefits the most in the entire NFL from facing 8+ in the box the least is...Devin Singletary. He faces 8+ DIB on only 5.3% of his snaps.

 

As to Fuller, there’s a noticeable difference in Watson’s numbers with and without him:

 

Career with Fuller: 466/700 (66.5%), 6,083 yards (8.68 YPA), 50 TDs, 20 INTs

Career without Fuller: 338/504 (67%), 3,634 yards (7.21 YPA), 21 TDs, 9 INTs

[buffalobillswin]

Just a heads up. It makes Bills fans seem very lowbrow and uneducated when we say stuff like Josh Allen is better than Deshaun Watson. 
 

I’m all for homerism but some of you are beyond delusional. 

[dave mcbride]

17 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

how sure are you that that’s true about Hyde?

 

According to NextGen, he’s facing 8+ in the box on 14.6 percent of his snaps. That’s actually a higher percentage than the previous best season of his career (2016 - 12.9%).
 

Ironically, the guy that benefits the most in the entire NFL from facing 8+ in the box the least is...Devin Singletary. He faces 8+ DIB on only 5.3% of his snaps.

 

As to Fuller, there’s a noticeable difference in Watson’s numbers with and without him:

 

Career with Fuller: 466/700 (66.5%), 6,083 yards (8.68 YPA), 50 TDs, 20 INTs

Career without Fuller: 338/504 (67%), 3,634 yards (7.21 YPA), 21 TDs, 9 INTs

Forget Will Fuller for a second. Kenny Stills has had multiple big games vs. the Bills over the years going back to New Orleans.