Browns interview Brian Daboll for HC; have interest in pairing with Bills Asst. GM Joe Schoen

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If you defend 7 by keeping 7 in you have lost already. Completely the wrong approach. I couldn't disagree with you more philosophically about how they need to run this offense. 

 

Not necessarily.  The context here is discussion of Brett Kollman (The Film Room) Youtube Video "Kids See Ghosts" on the Patriots zero-blitzing Sam Darnold and (last year) Pat Mahomes.  He points out that there are several ways to beat it.

 

The simplest, illustrated by a Packers play, is to max protect and throw a deep post route.  You aren't "lost already" because you're not looking for options; you know where you're going.  You just need time to get there.  It's about 5 minutes in.

 

Again, we're not talking about "max protect all the time"; we're talking about a specific technique to beat the type of Zero blitz the Patriots run (and, if I'm not mistaken, the Ravens also exploited).  And you have to max protect to make it work.  He contrasts with a KC play where they didn't max protect and it didn't work.

 

He also goes into other ways to beat zero blitz not involving deep routes (for example, you don't have a sure-handed WR who can beat that 1:1 coverage).  Give it a watch if you haven't, it's good stuff.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Do people even take Rex Ryan seriously? We all know how hard it is to find a good HC but what HC is going to go to  Cleveland and work with so much Cray Cray. It would be career suicide.

[dave mcbride]

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Obviously the big difference is that Daboll has NEVER been good.

 

I want the team to get talent around him.............Walt Corey had a #1 defense in 1988 with talent around him...........talent makes all but the very worst coaches look good...... but I've learned my lesson about making excuses for coaches who don't create synergy with their decision making.

 

We literally just saw Anthony Lynn take Greg Roman's playbook 3 years ago and do it considerably better than Roman had been doing.

 

Some coaches are just a lot better at calling games.

 

Lynn understood how to use Roman's plays in a manner that kept defense's on their heels.    Lynn ran it like a boxer actively setting up an attack while Roman was a puncher stepping in with a punch and then falling back and letting his opponent recover while he plotted his next punch.   Roman was literally getting the play call in with 12 seconds on the clock and putting his own offense on their heels.

 

 I'm of the belief that the right play caller could do a better job than Daboll with Daboll's playbook.

 

Now that isn't to say that he isn't doing a great job from Monday-Saturday but game days have just always been unkind to Daboll.   

 

 

Relative to this conversation, I thought you’d find this piece of info from Albert Breer interesting:

 

”Dolphins offensive coordinator Chad O’Shea was let go, and I’m told that part of it was Brian Flores’s desire to move away from his Patriot roots on that side of the ball. Why does that make sense? My theory is that since Miami’s going to be really young the next couple years, running a scheme with the complexity of New England’s might be tough on the players developmentally. Which is why it wouldn’t surprise me if we see some more college ideas infused into what Miami is doing.”

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/12/31/nfl-black-monday-coaching-rumors-mock-draft

 

[KRT88]

Just the like Browns, they plan to interview coaches and now do this without a GM. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....Rebate Jimmy is pushing hard to have Cleveland officially anointed, 'THE Mistake by the Lake".......

[MAJBobby]

 

[Mr. WEO]

13 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Relative to this conversation, I thought you’d find this piece of info from Albert Breer interesting:

 

”Dolphins offensive coordinator Chad O’Shea was let go, and I’m told that part of it was Brian Flores’s desire to move away from his Patriot roots on that side of the ball. Why does that make sense? My theory is that since Miami’s going to be really young the next couple years, running a scheme with the complexity of New England’s might be tough on the players developmentally. Which is why it wouldn’t surprise me if we see some more college ideas infused into what Miami is doing.”

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/12/31/nfl-black-monday-coaching-rumors-mock-draft

 

 

Interesting...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

Your questions are asked by the majority of Bills fans.  Unfortunately none of us are privy to what happens in the bowels of OBD.

 

Thinking about this again, it's probably worth noting that's a Very Good Thing and a pleasant change from years gone by where the rumors flew thick and heavy

 

20 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

None of us know what Beane and McDermott's long term "learning plan" and timeline for Josh Allen has been.

None of know what kind of discussions and debates there are with Daboll and what his opinions/recommendations are to his bosses.

None of us know what Josh Allen is saying or thinking concerning his development behind closed doors.

We have no idea what Beane and McDermott think of Dabolls' game day planning and play calling.

 

This might be a good place to bring up Josh Allen's presser yesterday.

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/josh-allen-it-s-what-we-worked-for

 

About 4 min in.  He was asked what kind of emotions he goes through when he heard Daboll is interviewing for the Browns HC position. 

Said he didn't even know that.  Said we're so focused on the Texans right now and he's sure Coach Daboll would say the same thing.

Said he's "extremely grateful for what he's [Daboll] has done for me and how we continue to work together and if that time comes that time comes, but for now, we're focused on the Texans"

 

Seems Allen weighed in pretty strongly with his opinion of Coach Daboll.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Relative to this conversation, I thought you’d find this piece of info from Albert Breer interesting:

 

”Dolphins offensive coordinator Chad O’Shea was let go, and I’m told that part of it was Brian Flores’s desire to move away from his Patriot roots on that side of the ball. Why does that make sense? My theory is that since Miami’s going to be really young the next couple years, running a scheme with the complexity of New England’s might be tough on the players developmentally. Which is why it wouldn’t surprise me if we see some more college ideas infused into what Miami is doing.”

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/12/31/nfl-black-monday-coaching-rumors-mock-draft

 

 

 

It was risky putting Allen in a complex system and IMO it's more a testament to Allen's intelligence than the coaching he's received that he's been a serviceable game manager.

 

They could have adapted to more of a college system.

 

But in fairness it wasn't like he was as natural of a fit into a simplified system either because his natural accuracy isn't on par with guys like Jackson, Mahomes or Watson.    He needed the work on his mechanics to make up for the lack of "shortstop" athletic accuracy in his game.    

 

That's why I think burning the EP system and the mechanics and timing it requires into his mind are probably a better thing for him in the long run.    

 

I just wish there was more in-between because this offense is very frustrating to watch.

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by BADOLBILZ

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Relative to this conversation, I thought you’d find this piece of info from Albert Breer interesting:

 

”Dolphins offensive coordinator Chad O’Shea was let go, and I’m told that part of it was Brian Flores’s desire to move away from his Patriot roots on that side of the ball. Why does that make sense? My theory is that since Miami’s going to be really young the next couple years, running a scheme with the complexity of New England’s might be tough on the players developmentally. Which is why it wouldn’t surprise me if we see some more college ideas infused into what Miami is doing.”

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/12/31/nfl-black-monday-coaching-rumors-mock-draft

 

Although oddly, isn’t that basically the system Tua is versed in?

[BillsMafia828]

On 12/30/2019 at 7:30 PM, Not at the table Karlos said:

Don’t think he gets the job there but say he does. Who are the best OC options out there?

For the love of God lets hope he gets the job. 

[MAJBobby]

 

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Although oddly, isn’t that basically the system Tua is versed in?

I don’t know. I kinda doubt Daboll ran a NE system at Bama, and in any event Tua only played for one half plus an OT possession under Daboll (in catch-up mode for the most part too). 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

On December 31, 2019 at 4:04 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Well, and scoring.

 

 

 

 

And you would still be incorrect.

 

First 8 games 18.9 ppg (does not include the special teams TD against Miami).

 

Last 8 games excluding the Jets game 21.4ppg

 

There was no drop off as you suggested as the season went on. And factoring that the degree of difficulty was significantly greater in the second half facing so many good defenses it actually looks like Allen and Daboll got better as the season went on. 

 

You want to hang your hat on passing yards and completion percentage then fine. But passing yards is a meaningless stat. All five passing yards leaders missed the playoffs. Lamar Jackson threw for less yards per game than Allen.

[RyanC883]

On 12/30/2019 at 9:13 PM, Reed83HOF said:

I don't think Daboll would take the job - I sure as hell wouldn't. I would wait for a better opp

 

well, Ron took the Washington job.  Anything is possible.  

[BringBackOrton]

24 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

 

And you would still be incorrect.

 

First 8 games 18.9 ppg (does not include the special teams TD against Miami).

 

Last 8 games excluding the Jets game 21.4ppg

 

There was no drop off as you suggested as the season went on. And factoring that the degree of difficulty was significantly greater in the second half facing so many good defenses it actually looks like Allen and Daboll got better as the season went on. 

 

You want to hang your hat on passing yards and completion percentage then fine. But passing yards is a meaningless stat. All five passing yards leaders missed the playoffs. Lamar Jackson threw for less yards per game than Allen.

This year is an anomaly. Passing yards matter.

[Dan]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It was risky putting Allen in a complex system and IMO it's more a testament to Allen's intelligence than the coaching he's received that he's been a serviceable game manager.

 

They could have adapted to more of a college system.

 

But in fairness it wasn't like he was as natural of a fit into a simplified system either because his natural accuracy isn't on par with guys like Jackson, Mahomes or Watson.    He needed the work on his mechanics to make up for the lack of "shortstop" athletic accuracy in his game.    

 

That's why I think burning the EP system and the mechanics and timing it requires into his mind are probably a better thing for him in the long run.    

 

I just wish there was more in-between because this offense is very frustrating to watch.

 

IMO, I think Beane, McD and Daboll knew that they wanted to install a complex, yet highly productive professional offense.  So they drafted a guy with high upside and intelligence .  Because no matter who they drafted it was going to be a multiyear learning curve.  But, IF Allen learns it all, IF they get a few other pieces to fall in place, then we have an offense to lead the team for years and not a flash in the pan type season.    

 

So, do they see the current offensive inconsistency as just part of the learning curve?   If so, then my guess is they're more than happy with the way its looking, regardless of the stats and standings.  And, assuming Allen continues to grow and mature into the system next year, then so am I.

[MJS]

30 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

This year is an anomaly. Passing yards matter.

This year was a revelation. Passing yards are correlated, but not the cause of winning games.

 

There is a minimum threshold for winning games. Anything above that threshold is unimportant, but if you are throwing less than that threshold you are dead in the water. Not sure what the number is, but I'd guess it's around 215 yards passing. Consistently less than that and you are not going to consistently win games. Anything more than that is enough to consistently win games.

 

Someone would have to run the analysis to find out what the actual number is.

 

Winning a game is more like an equation than a single stat. Throwing for 500 yards but 5 INT's and no TD's is going to be a loss. Throwing for 150 yards and 5 TD's is going to be a win. There's a sweet spot somewhere that includes yards, TD's, and turnovers.

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, Dan said:

IMO, I think Beane, McD and Daboll knew that they wanted to install a complex, yet highly productive professional offense.  So they drafted a guy with high upside and intelligence .  Because no matter who they drafted it was going to be a multiyear learning curve.  But, IF Allen learns it all, IF they get a few other pieces to fall in place, then we have an offense to lead the team for years and not a flash in the pan type season.    

 

So, do they see the current offensive inconsistency as just part of the learning curve?   If so, then my guess is they're more than happy with the way its looking, regardless of the stats and standings.  And, assuming Allen continues to grow and mature into the system next year, then so am I.

 

I wonder the same thing.  If it isn't then Daboll won't be here long.

If it is then Daboll needs at least another year.

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, MJS said:

Winning a game is more like an equation than a single stat. Throwing for 500 yards but 5 INT's and no TD's is going to be a loss. Throwing for 150 yards and 5 TD's is going to be a win. There's a sweet spot somewhere that includes yards, TD's, and turnovers.

 

The passing stats that best correlate with wins are passer rating and ANY/A:

 

http://www.footballperspective.com/any-a-rushing-yards-and-winning-percentage/

 

Total passing yards barely has any correlation to wins. Every other major passing statistic correlates better.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

30 minutes ago, MJS said:

This year was a revelation. Passing yards are correlated, but not the cause of winning games.

 

There is a minimum threshold for winning games. Anything above that threshold is unimportant, but if you are throwing less than that threshold you are dead in the water. Not sure what the number is, but I'd guess it's around 215 yards passing. Consistently less than that and you are not going to consistently win games. Anything more than that is enough to consistently win games.

 

Someone would have to run the analysis to find out what the actual number is.

 

Winning a game is more like an equation than a single stat. Throwing for 500 yards but 5 INT's and no TD's is going to be a loss. Throwing for 150 yards and 5 TD's is going to be a win. There's a sweet spot somewhere that includes yards, TD's, and turnovers.

 

So in spring 2018 when I did the analysis, the "floor" for passing productivity was between 210-220 ypg (depended a bit upon how one tweaked).

It may be a bit lower now, actually.  We'll see how it shakes out over the longer term.

[JGMcD2]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The passing stats that best correlate with wins are passer rating and ANY/A:

 

http://www.footballperspective.com/any-a-rushing-yards-and-winning-percentage/

 

Total passing yards barely has any correlation to wins. Every other major passing statistic correlates better.

I haven’t looked in awhile at football specifically but aren’t PF and PA basically the end all be all in terms of correlation to wins? 
 

I know PF has a greater correlation than PA but they’re both vastly more significant than any other variable. 
 

It is a really intuitive concept that I feel some often overlook. I’m more of a baseball guy and there the entire name of the game is maximizing run prevention and run production. Those concepts are leaking over with football analytics. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, JGMcD2 said:

I haven’t looked in awhile at football specifically but aren’t PF and PA basically the end all be all in terms of correlation to wins? 
 

I know PF has a greater correlation than PA but they’re both vastly more significant than any other variable. 
 

It is a really intuitive concept that I feel some often overlook. I’m more of a baseball guy and there the entire name of the game is maximizing run prevention and run production. Those concepts are leaking over with football analytics. 

 

Spoken like a guy who just might post a graph of Net Points (Point differential) vs Wins every week

[MJS]

27 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The passing stats that best correlate with wins are passer rating and ANY/A:

 

http://www.footballperspective.com/any-a-rushing-yards-and-winning-percentage/

 

Total passing yards barely has any correlation to wins. Every other major passing statistic correlates better.

Passer rating is a combination of lots of passing stats, so that makes sense.

[Dan]

35 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I wonder the same thing.  If it isn't then Daboll won't be here long.

If it is then Daboll needs at least another year.

Agreed.  I think he gets a minimum of 1 more year regardless. Assuming of course he doesn't jump to a HC gig.  But I just can't see them deciding after 2 years and a 10win season, that they need to shake up the coaching staff.   

 

Personally, I like the approach they're taking wth Josh and the offense.  It's complicated, they're limiting his running, and it's causing them to have an inconsistent year.  But it seems they're trying to teach him to be a true NFL QB that can read all the defenses and make all the throws. If you wanna be the franchise guy for 10-15 yrs... that's what you need to do.   The scramblers, the one read RPO guys, they just don't seem to last long.  

[MJS]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So in spring 2018 when I did the analysis, the "floor" for passing productivity was between 210-220 ypg (depended a bit upon how one tweaked).

It may be a bit lower now, actually.  We'll see how it shakes out over the longer term.

Cool. I was pretty spot on. Did you run a regression using bins for yard categories, or what did you do for the analysis?

 

It would be interesting to look at it from a total yards standpoint, combining passing yards with rushing yards for the QB.

 

It would also be interesting to see if QB rushing yards are equal to passing yards in impacting wins, or if one or the other impacts wins slightly more.

[BillsFan4]

Don’t take the job Brian! 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25797430/inside-cleveland-browns-front-office-where-hope-history-collide

 

This article is from January 2019. It’s not a surprise the browns continue to be a mess when you read about how Haslam runs the team. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

32 minutes ago, MJS said:

Cool. I was pretty spot on. Did you run a regression using bins for yard categories, or what did you do for the analysis?

It would be interesting to look at it from a total yards standpoint, combining passing yards with rushing yards for the QB.

It would also be interesting to see if QB rushing yards are equal to passing yards in impacting wins, or if one or the other impacts wins slightly more.

 

To be honest I didn't look at YPG on their own, I wasn't trying to correlate with wins, and I didn't perform formal regression analysis.  The context is, I was looking for a way to sort "successful NFL QB" (not Magical Franchise Man, just a guy I believe the overall consensus would be "you can win with him if enough pieces are in place") from unsuccessful ones, as a precursor to looking at where they were drafted.   Wins are important, but since a good QB can be stuck on a sucky team or a "meh" QB can succeed on a great team, they couldn't be my marker. I had 3 parameters emerge (completion %, TD/INT, YPA)  with loose criteria (but the guy had to hit all 3) and it didn't quite work.  So I noticed if I put in a 4th, a YPG "floor", Eureka.  Since my goal was looking at draft position of successful QB, I never did the obvious thing to go back and look at whether a YPG floor could replace one of the other three.  But the "floor" was lower than a lot of people might think, right around 210-220 ypg.

 

We think along similar lines I believe - I've been thinking that total QB yards, total TDs, and total turnovers might be the new "normal" to look for a correlation to winning.

 

[GreggTX]

I'd love to have Greg Roman back. He was Rex's scapegoat. Just imagine what he could do with Allen. Get a big #1 WR, a probowl LT, RG and D Henry and sweep the Patriots in 2020. It'll never happen though. Baltimore isn't about to let him get away unless someone offers him a HC job. I also think Chan could make a probowler out of Singletary. Look out for the fish also. They won far more games than anyone predicted with almost no talent and they'll have both money and draft picks this year.

[MJS]

49 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

I'd love to have Greg Roman back. He was Rex's scapegoat. Just imagine what he could do with Allen. Get a big #1 WR, a probowl LT, RG and D Henry and sweep the Patriots in 2020. It'll never happen though. Baltimore isn't about to let him get away unless someone offers him a HC job. I also think Chan could make a probowler out of Singletary. Look out for the fish also. They won far more games than anyone predicted with almost no talent and they'll have both money and draft picks this year.

The only problem is Roman's commitment to the running game. It might stunt Allen's development as a passer.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 12/30/2019 at 8:18 PM, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

dont do it Brian, the organization is a sh!t show, thats were coaches go to die.

 

 

On 12/30/2019 at 8:22 PM, QB Bills said:

Keep him. Let McClappy interview there instead. 

 

sounds like you're as smart as Jimmy Haslam

 

 

[Nihilarian]

4 hours ago, GreggTX said:

I'd love to have Greg Roman back. He was Rex's scapegoat. Just imagine what he could do with Allen. Get a big #1 WR, a probowl LT, RG and D Henry and sweep the Patriots in 2020. It'll never happen though. Baltimore isn't about to let him get away unless someone offers him a HC job. I also think Chan could make a probowler out of Singletary. Look out for the fish also. They won far more games than anyone predicted with almost no talent and they'll have both money and draft picks this year.

My thoughts are I honestly hope that Daboll puts it all together and gets the Bills offense rolling against some good playoff teams. If the Bills retain him after that I'm fine with it. However, should he fall on his face and still get offers to be a HC elsewhere GL to him. 

 

Greg Roman will certainly get a HCing shot somewhere and I'm thinking any of the openings, Panthers, Cowboys, Giants or perhaps Browns.  He has to be the hottest candidate out there right now. 

 

If the Bills lose Daboll to the Browns I'd rather see Anthony Lynn if fired by the Chargers as he would be my first choice. 

[BringBackOrton]

47 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

My thoughts are I honestly hope that Daboll puts it all together and gets the Bills offense rolling against some good playoff teams. If the Bills retain him after that I'm fine with it. However, should he fall on his face and still get offers to be a HC elsewhere GL to him. 

 

Greg Roman will certainly get a HCing shot somewhere and I'm thinking any of the openings, Panthers, Cowboys, Giants or perhaps Browns.  He has to be the hottest candidate out there right now. 

 

If the Bills lose Daboll to the Browns I'd rather see Anthony Lynn if fired by the Chargers as he would be my first choice. 

Lynn won’t be bringing Roman’s playbook or Pro Bowlers with him. Hard pass.

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

My thoughts are I honestly hope that Daboll puts it all together and gets the Bills offense rolling against some good playoff teams. If the Bills retain him after that I'm fine with it. However, should he fall on his face and still get offers to be a HC elsewhere GL to him. 

 

Greg Roman will certainly get a HCing shot somewhere and I'm thinking any of the openings, Panthers, Cowboys, Giants or perhaps Browns.  He has to be the hottest candidate out there right now. 

 

If the Bills lose Daboll to the Browns I'd rather see Anthony Lynn if fired by the Chargers as he would be my first choice. 

 

Anthony Lynn has zero track record as an offensive coordinator. He demonstrated here in Buffalo that he can be an effective play caller..... but we have no idea at all if he can design an offense. I think that is too big of a risk to give to Allen in this, what I consider to be the most critical, offseason. If Daboll goes (and you and I differ on whether that is a good thing or not) then I am either looking for another E-P guy or promoting Ken Dorsey and asking him to retain substantially the same offense and the same verbiage etc. 

 

If looking outside for an E-P guy then Chad O'Shea who was just fired by Miami might make some sense here and so might the guy I have basically wanted us to hire for about 3 years Sean Ryan who while never having been an offensive coordinator was (as the Houston QB coach) intricately involved in designing the passing offense that Deshaun Watson ran as a rookie that combined what he did well at Clemson with the E-P that is Bill O'Brien's base offense. He left last year after being overlooked for the OC job and went to Detroit as their QB coach under Darrell Bevell who is another pretty good offensive mind. Ryan is kind of the opposite to Lynn - has been heavily engaged in scheme and play design but has never been a play caller so I suppose there would be significant risk there too.

 

I think the likely outcome if Daboll were to leave (I still don't believe that will end up happening, but who knows) is Dorsey is promoted because continuity for Allen is likely McDermott's number 1 objective this offseason.

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Anthony Lynn has zero track record as an offensive coordinator. He demonstrated here in Buffalo that he can be an effective play caller..... but we have no idea at all if he can design an offense. I think that is too big of a risk to give to Allen in this, what I consider to be the most critical, offseason. If Daboll goes (and you and I differ on whether that is a good thing or not) then I am either looking for another E-P guy or promoting Ken Dorsey and asking him to retain substantially the same offense and the same verbiage etc. 

 

If looking outside for an E-P guy then Chad O'Shea who was just fired by Miami might make some sense here and so might the guy I have basically wanted us to hire for about 3 years Sean Ryan who while never having been an offensive coordinator was (as the Houston QB coach) intricately involved in designing the passing offense that Deshaun Watson ran as a rookie that combined what he did well at Clemson with the E-P that is Bill O'Brien's base offense. He left last year after being overlooked for the OC job and went to Detroit as their QB coach under Darrell Bevell who is another pretty good offensive mind. Ryan is kind of the opposite to Lynn - has been heavily engaged in scheme and play design but has never been a play caller so I suppose there would be significant risk there too.

 

I think the likely outcome if Daboll were to leave (I still don't believe that will end up happening, but who knows) is Dorsey is promoted because continuity for Allen is likely McDermott's number 1 objective this offseason.

Great post.

 

Everybody talks about coordinators not going to teams in turmoil like the Browns, but that’s overblown. HC opportunities dry up for guys a lot earlier that coordinator jobs. 

 

If I’m Daboll and the Browns offer me the job, I take it. Worst comes to worst, you get fired after 2-3 years and have a $15M windfall. Then you get a BS job somewhere as a TE coach and a year later you’re an OC again.  If he passes on an HC job and Allen regresses, or the offense sucks harder, and he gets fired as a coordinator, he may not get another HC offer again.

 

Fired HC’s get coordinator jobs. Fired coordinators don’t often become HC’s.

 

Dorsey would probably be the one tapped, IMO. We may even see offensive improvement if he’s a better playcaller.

Edited January 2, 2020 by BringBackOrton

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Great post.

 

Everybody talks about coordinators not going to teams in turmoil like the Browns, but that’s overblown. HC opportunities dry up for guys a lot earlier that coordinator jobs. 

 

If I’m Daboll and the Browns offer me the job, I take it. Worst comes to worst, you get fired after 2-3 years and have a $15M windfall. Then you get a BS job somewhere as a TE coach and a year later you’re an OC again.  If he passes on an HC job and Allen regresses, or the offense sucks harder, and he gets fired as a coordinator, he may not get another HC offer again.

 

Fired HC’s get coordinator jobs. Fired coordinators don’t often become HC’s.

 

Dorsey would probably be the one tapped, IMO. We may even see offensive improvement if he’s a better playcaller.

 

Indeed. History is littered with guys who were hot coordinators for a few years and then suddenly the offers dried up. Hell, there were 3 years in a row that Greg Roman got HC looks, then nothing since. That will change this year you would expect but there are no guarantees. Ray Horton is the other one I always go to. He was the DC in Arizona under Whiz and a hot name for 2 or 3 hiring cycles without ever landing a job. He spent last year coaching DBs in Washington. If the opportunity knocks turning it down and waiting it out is a risky business. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, GreggTX said:

I'd love to have Greg Roman back. He was Rex's scapegoat. Just imagine what he could do with Allen. Get a big #1 WR, a probowl LT, RG and D Henry and sweep the Patriots in 2020. It'll never happen though. Baltimore isn't about to let him get away unless someone offers him a HC job. I also think Chan could make a probowler out of Singletary. Look out for the fish also. They won far more games than anyone predicted with almost no talent and they'll have both money and draft picks this year.

 

I think Greg Roman is the perfect offensive coordinator for Lamar Jackson.

 

You are correct, it's a moot point because Roman will not leave Baltimore except for a HC gig (assuming he wants one)

 

40 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Great post.

 

Everybody talks about coordinators not going to teams in turmoil like the Browns, but that’s overblown. HC opportunities dry up for guys a lot earlier that coordinator jobs. 

 

If I’m Daboll and the Browns offer me the job, I take it. Worst comes to worst, you get fired after 2-3 years and have a $15M windfall. Then you get a BS job somewhere as a TE coach and a year later you’re an OC again.  If he passes on an HC job and Allen regresses, or the offense sucks harder, and he gets fired as a coordinator, he may not get another HC offer again.

 

Fired HC’s get coordinator jobs. Fired coordinators don’t often become HC’s.

 

Dorsey would probably be the one tapped, IMO. We may even see offensive improvement if he’s a better playcaller.

 

That was the viewpoint Pettine took, certainly.

 

There are other viewpoints

[babulator]

If his resume is soo good and he's soo coveted he'd be a fool to take the job at the mistake on the lake.

Going from a  big guy who's eager to learn with tremendous upside to a little guy who's regressing and knows everything.

Sprinkle a little cultural dysfunction and historical ineptitude and yeah... he'd be foolish.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

….hmmmm…"Urban Renewal" on the horizon??………….

 

Browns have “strong interest” in Urban Meyer, per current Urban Meyer colleague

Posted by Mike Florio on January 2, 2020, 10:08 AM EST

 

The Browns seem to be casting a wide net when it comes to looking for their next head coach. The net reportedly includes former Ohio State coach Urban Meyer.

 

The news of the Browns having “strong interest” in Meyer comes from Bruce Feldman. Both Feldman and Meyer currently work for FOX, which suggests that Meyer is one of the sources implicit in Feldman’s “per sources” designation. (Plenty of reporters use “per sources” when they have only one source; some do it deliberately, some just fail to appreciate the significance of the “per sources” term, I’m told.)

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/02/browns-have-strong-interest-in-urban-meyer-per-current-urban-meyer-colleague/

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think Greg Roman is the perfect offensive coordinator for Lamar Jackson.

 

You are correct, it's a moot point because Roman will not leave Baltimore except for a HC gig (assuming he wants one)

 

 

That was the viewpoint Pettine took, certainly.

 

There are other viewpoints

There sure are, but I don’t know a lot of fired coordinators who eventually got the HC tap. I’m sure there’s been a couple but that position gets turned over quite a bit. 

 

Not to mention, coordinators who become HC’s because of their success at coordinator but get fired usually maintain their rep as a good, or at least employable coordinator. Leslie Frazier, Norv Turner, etc.