How confident are you that Josh Allen will be our starter for the next 3 years+

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

ummm...feel free to cherry pick the parts of my post that support your argument, and just ignore the rest. lol

 

I'll move on.  This is going nowhere.

you are right. Because you think Allen can’t improve. I do. So no point in trying. 

[BrownNgold]

10 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

ummm...feel free to cherry pick the parts of my post that support your argument, and just ignore the rest. lol

 

I'll move on.  This is going nowhere.

What about the portions of your post that are wrong, like 4 years of D1 experience.  That is wrong

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Still a very young QB who is still developing trust with his O-Line and WR/TE. I think you can improve your accuracy with better footwork and throwing mechanics. I don’t think he will ever be at a Drew Brees level of accuracy but I don’t think Allen needs to be. Allen has amazing physical gifts, his quick release, arm strength and mobility are elite. I was hoping he stayed healthy and showed improvement thought the year which he has. I feel like the offensive formations and personal that the Eagles have would be beneficial to Allen. We just need that 2nd TE, a big WR that can battle for contested balls and maybe two more upgrades to the O-Line. We are so close to making a serious run at a few SB’s. 

[Pokebball]

12 hours ago, zow2 said:

I think he will last.  Stuff like the end of the game was concerning though.  4 plays to score and go backwards.  Can’t do that. Need more awareness.  As McDermott said..the final series inside the 10 was not professional. 

The offensive line struggled all game. Then we lost perhaps our best offensive lineman. Those last four plays we're going to take a miracle

6 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Still a very young QB who is still developing trust with his O-Line and WR/TE. I think you can improve your accuracy with better footwork and throwing mechanics. I don’t think he will ever be at a Drew Brees level of accuracy but I don’t think Allen needs to be. Allen has amazing physical gifts, his quick release, arm strength and mobility are elite. I was hoping he stayed healthy and showed improvement thought the year which he has. I feel like the offensive formations and personal that the Eagles have would be beneficial to Allen. We just need that 2nd TE, a big WR that can battle for contested balls and maybe two more upgrades to the O-Line. We are so close to making a serious run at a few SB’s. 

I think better protection for Allen will do much more for his accuracy then footwork will.

35 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

He's been through 4 years at a D1 college football program, two NFL training camps, and has worked with QB guru Jordan Palmer the last two years, yet his footwork is still a problem...and is still fixable down the road?

 

okie dokie

 

IMO...I think it's more a case of what you see, is what you get(in terms of his accuracy)

Some context for you is necessary. Josh started 24 games in college. Lamar Jackson started 49. Both started their first year in college. Josh played for a G5. Lamar played for a P5.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Pokebball

[Albany,n.y.]

12 hours ago, Motorin' said:

I think you should do a poll every week for the next fifteen years.

Corrected.

[Dr. K]

13 hours ago, rayray808 said:

We are now at the point where a few things have been established:

 

- Playoffs are a lock

- Josh Allen is streaky

- Josh Allen has good games, and some not so good games

- Josh Allen is a duel threat who leads the league in rushing TDʻs but also fumbles

 

In threads there seems to be a divide that puts people all in on either him being the franchise, or him never able to make the jump to being an NFL starter.

 

This thread is intended to be able to quantify exactly how confident you are that he is indeed the future of the franchise without being 0% or 100% about it.

 

GO BILLS 

 

I do wonder sometimes if his career will be Mark Sanchez or Ben Rothliesberger. 

 

 

I like Allen and want him to succeed. He seems to be heading more in the Rothliesberger direction at this point. But Sanchez at one point looked to be heading toward being a franchise QB.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

41 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

He's been through 4 years at a D1 college football program, two NFL training camps, and has worked with QB guru Jordan Palmer the last two years, yet his footwork is still a problem...and is still fixable down the road?

 

okie dokie

 

IMO...I think it's more a case of what you see, is what you get(in terms of his accuracy)

 

 

...um...er....well....uh....oh....hmmm.......ok....you win.......he's an unfixable bust.......case closed.........okie dokie...............

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

2 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

The offensive line struggled all game. Then we lost perhaps our best offensive lineman. Those last four plays we're going to take a miracle

I think better protection for Allen will do much more for his accuracy then footwork will.

I agree, a clean pocket to step into is the most important thing. Two more big targets at WR and TE would help too. 

[Brandon]

About 90%. 

 

He's rough around the edges,  but the Bills knew he was going to be a project going into it.  He's shown significant improvement compared to last year and has improved over the course of this season.  They were also counting on Zay Jones to be his go-to possession receiver and that turned out to be a big miss.   Robert Foster hasn't repeated his success of last year,  either. 

 

Despite that,  Allen is playing pretty well.  He has room for improvement,  but they're winning.  He has accounted for 29 TDs.  Go get him another quality target or two this offseason,  keep building the OL,  and lets see where we are a year or two from now. 

[london_bills]

Need to sort out what's going on with him mentally. That's affecting his play. 

 

Early in games if you give him two stud WRs he still wouldn't hit them. 

 

 

[muppy]

i Am pretty confident josh Allen will be the franchise QB moving forward barring a catastrophic injury which is true for any QB. I know the OP was referring more regsrding his skills being adequate and equating his success vs failure to achieve franchise QB status and I believe he will continue in an upward trajectory. Also  for me personally I am getting too old to even want to imagine the bills needing to be oartaking of THAT search again Lord have mercy. His growth from his start to now has had bumps but also flashes of brilliance I have to trust he’ll become more consistent. 

[Dan]

Borrowing injury Josh is our franchise QB Anyone that can't see that just isn't Latin attention ornis nitpicking too much. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Josh Allen was drafted #7 overall to win games like yesterday. 
 

I looked at my friends when they were getting the ball back and told them the same. They had the chance to win and didn’t. If he doesn’t start winning those types of games, he’ll be toast 

[Pokebball]

1 minute ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Josh Allen was drafted #7 overall to win games like yesterday. 
 

I looked at my friends when they were getting the ball back and told them the same. They had the chance to win and didn’t. If he doesn’t start winning those types of games, he’ll be toast 

If only it was that easy for second-year, first round draft picks

Edited December 22, 2019 by Pokebball

[RochesterLifer]

80%. The other 20% is due to the always-present injury possibility that comes with being an NFL player.

[rayray808]

8 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Josh Allen was drafted #7 overall to win games like yesterday. 
 

I looked at my friends when they were getting the ball back and told them the same. They had the chance to win and didn’t. If he doesn’t start winning those types of games, he’ll be toast 

 

Based on that logic wonʻt a QB drafted #1 ALWAYS win the game at the end? Wouldnʻt that also imply that whichever QB was drafted higher in that game, thatʻs who should win?

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

End of regulation meaning he scored in the final seconds of the half for the first time-which has always been one of my biggest pet peeves- lack of situational awareness in two minute drill.

 

QBs passing him by in development meaning in his first 10 games Daniel Jones already has a couple 300 yard/4 TD games, as does Murray with 300 yard games and 65% completion...Murray has also had 2 games this year with 3 TD passes to Josh’s 1. (That being said, Josh left 2 passing TDs on the board last night- he should have had 4.

Since you live in Giants territory like me, I'm guessing you've seen enough of Daniel Jones to know that Josh Allen at this point in their careers is way ahead of Daniel Jones.  If you're not watching the Giants, take a look because one of the main reasons for their poor record is that Daniel Jones turns the ball over too many times at key points of the game.  It's understandable, because Jones is a rookie.  There's no way anyone who watches games instead of just looking at stat sheets can say that Daniel Jones is ahead of Josh Allen in development.  Maybe somewhere down the line Jones will be close to Allen, but right now he's miles behind Josh.  The main reason Jones looks good on paper is because he's throwing a lot in catch-up situations and padding the stats.  I'll never be a stat guy, I prefer to let my eyes do the evaluation the eyes say Josh Allen is way ahead of Daniel Jones as of 12/22/19.  

[Pokebball]

8 minutes ago, rayray808 said:

 

Based on that logic wonʻt a QB drafted #1 ALWAYS win the game at the end? Wouldnʻt that also imply that whichever QB was drafted higher in that game, thatʻs who should win?

And of course it means that every first round draft pick will always beat the veteran. And it also means that every play of every game includes this dynamic.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Pokebball

[njbuff]

I wonder what he can do with a big stud WR who is open even when he is covered.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

9 minutes ago, rayray808 said:

 

Based on that logic wonʻt a QB drafted #1 ALWAYS win the game at the end? Wouldnʻt that also imply that whichever QB was drafted higher in that game, thatʻs who should win?

my logic has nothing to do with draft position and everything to do with execution when it counts, regardless of where a team acquired their guy. My point was that the front office and team deliberately chose this player to win games like this, and if he doesn’t start doing it, then it’s a let down. 
 

I voted 60% chance, FWIW

[EmotionallyUnstable]

20 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

If only it was that easy for second-year, first round draft picks

never said it was easy. But be practical. 
 

this is what he was selected to do. Win the big games when it counts. You can make all the excuses you can conjure up: WR talent, play calling, age, opponent, OL play, etc. 

 

At the end of the day, he left multiple plays on the table, including the potentially game-tying touchdown. 

 

Like I said before, these are the games he needs to start winning in order to be considered the long-term answer and future at QB 

[Locomark]

13 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Since you live in Giants territory like me, I'm guessing you've seen enough of Daniel Jones to know that Josh Allen at this point in their careers is way ahead of Daniel Jones.  If you're not watching the Giants, take a look because one of the main reasons for their poor record is that Daniel Jones turns the ball over too many times at key points of the game.  It's understandable, because Jones is a rookie.  There's no way anyone who watches games instead of just looking at stat sheets can say that Daniel Jones is ahead of Josh Allen in development.  Maybe somewhere down the line Jones will be close to Allen, but right now he's miles behind Josh.  The main reason Jones looks good on paper is because he's throwing a lot in catch-up situations and padding the stats.  I'll never be a stat guy, I prefer to let my eyes do the evaluation the eyes say Josh Allen is way ahead of Daniel Jones as of 12/22/19.  

Well said. It also easy to put up stats when your team stinks and you are playing from behind against soft defenses.  McD team philosophy is not set up to throw for 300 on a regular basis. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Locomark

[muppy]

6 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Well, stating the obvious, his completion is around last in the NFL...the fact that he requires near perfect mechanics to throw when you have guys like Mahomes, Watson, Jackson and Wilson (all guys the bills had chances to draft) that can complete all kinds of passes throwing off platform is very discouraging....he is two years in and still doesn’t have a season of 60% completion.

 

Now, passing for 300 yards isn’t a stat that tells a whole lot...but when you have rookie QBs doing it with ease and Allen can’t come close to sniffing 300 after 25 games, it makes you question why it’s like “pulling teeth” for him.

 

His situational awareness has been suspect...however I was pleased to finally see him score for the first time at the end of regulation last night...

 

He’s completed 3 deep balls the passed two games which is good...but he still had a handful of overthrows last night that should have been completed and likely would have won the game...and they were just overthrows- they weren’t even close...

 

I think these are all legitimate concerns for people...Josh Allen is requiring a lot of patience, and we aren’t sure if he can get any better than he already is...We are seeing young QBs pass him by and it can certainly be frustrating at times.

I can see your points in all but the first paragraph where to me it reads you are more lamenting not having drafted those players aka look at all that spilt milk we could have had. I’m way tired of reading oh if we’d only drafted so and so it is apples and oranges the QBs you mentioned went into systems with supporting coaches and players theBills don’t have I just think those kinds of arguments do t hold a lot of water.  Now as far as the rest I’m not sAying josh Allen doesn’t need improvements in his accuracy but you have to consider the supporting casts as well as the height of the ceiling I. Josh Allen’s case based on the improvements we HAVE seen to date I honestly do t understand a lot of the pessimism and skepticism I’m reading we all k ew he was a green prospect I never expected perfection but what I HAVE seen is a guy who is sold out to improve to win and to never give up trying. To me he is straight up baller and should bd happy we have him

Edited December 22, 2019 by Margarita

[Big Gun]

1 hour ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Josh Allen was drafted #7 overall to win games like yesterday. 
 

I looked at my friends when they were getting the ball back and told them the same. They had the chance to win and didn’t. If he doesn’t start winning those types of games, he’ll be toast 

Really, he's already won 8 of those types of games in his young career!

[DefenseWins]

3 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

End of regulation meaning he scored in the final seconds of the half for the first time-which has always been one of my biggest pet peeves- lack of situational awareness in two minute drill.

 

QBs passing him by in development meaning in his first 10 games Daniel Jones already has a couple 300 yard/4 TD games, as does Murray with 300 yard games and 65% completion...Murray has also had 2 games this year with 3 TD passes to Josh’s 1. (That being said, Josh left 2 passing TDs on the board last night- he should have had 4.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MurrKy00.htm

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneDa05.htm

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RyanMa00.htm

 

Color me as not impressed with either of your examples of QB's who have "passed Allen in development"

 

Murray has had 4 - 300 yd games. One win against Atlanta, a tie with Detroit, and losses to Baltimore and Tampa Bay.

 

Jones has had 3 - 300 yd games. One win over Tampa bay and Losses to both the Detroit and the Jets.

 

Entering today's games the Cardinals are currently 4-9-1 while the Giants are 3-11.

 

Matt Ryan (Atlanta) BTW has had  9 - 300 yd games this season. Their record is 5-9.

 

It would not necessarily appear that 300 yd passing games are all that indicative of a successful season...

Edited December 22, 2019 by DefenseWins

[VW82]

I think he's going to get a minimum of two more years unless he completely falls off. Daboll will get next year, and it if doesn't improve then he'll be fired and someone else will get a shot. It's possible at the end of year four that everyone is gone. But that's the worst case scenario IMO.

 

This team is still trending up. I'd say odds are better than 50/50. Mariota got five years to prove he wasn't the guy, and I think that's a pretty good comp for Josh considering where each guy was year two. Mariota stopped improving. Josh can still get better, particularly with the accuracy stuff.  

Edited December 22, 2019 by VW82

[JaCrispy]

12 minutes ago, DefenseWins said:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MurrKy00.htm

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneDa05.htm

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RyanMa00.htm

 

Color me as not impressed with either of your examples of QB's who have "passed Allen in development"

 

Murray has had 4 - 300 yd games. One win against Atlanta, a tie with Detroit, and losses to Baltimore and Tampa Bay.

 

Jones has had 3 - 300 yd games. One win over Tampa bay and Losses to both the Detroit and the Jets.

 

Entering today's games the Cardinals are currently 4-9-1 while the Giants are 3-11.

 

Matt Ryan (Atlanta) BTW has had  9 - 300 yd games this season. Their record is 5-9.

 

It would not necessarily appear that 300 yd passing games are all that indicative of a successful season...

Allen does not pass for 300 because of his inconsistent accuracy...like Kurt Warner said, he needs to learn how to become a passer and not just a thrower...

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, Locomark said:

Well said. It also easy to put up stats when your team stinks and you are playing from behind against soft defenses.  McD team philosophy is not set up to throw for 300 on a regular basis. 

I'm watching both Giants & Jets games (one on TV, one on a computer with view of both at the same time) and I must admit Jones looks good today.  It looks like the 2 weeks on the sidelines helped him.  

[Pokebball]

2 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

never said it was easy. But be practical. 
 

this is what he was selected to do. Win the big games when it counts. You can make all the excuses you can conjure up: WR talent, play calling, age, opponent, OL play, etc. 

 

At the end of the day, he left multiple plays on the table, including the potentially game-tying touchdown. 

 

Like I said before, these are the games he needs to start winning in order to be considered the long-term answer and future at QB 

He took them on a 14 play drive, 57 yards to the NE 8.  Lot of success on that drive, but yeah not perfection.

[Magox]

1 hour ago, pop gun said:

Really, he's already won 8 of those types of games in his young career!

 

Thank you!  It's as if he is completely unaware of this fact.  The fact that since he's entered into the NFL he is at the tops of the league of winning those sort of games.

 

Yes, he missed the Knox throw and I'm sure that throw will stay with him for some time but the plays he made on that drive to get to that position were truly special.  

 

Josh Allen is not that far away from being a top 8 QB in this league.   What impressed me the most yesterday aside from his WOW plays was that visualization of the field and decision making in regards to who and where he is throwing to looked great.  When he wasn't being smothered with the pass rush he was able to find the right receiver, his problem is his mechanics.  He is throwing off his back foot too often and overthrowing receivers, that is something that will be corrected.  Just a few minor tweaks to his game and add in another play making receiver and the continued development of Knox and Singletary and this offense will be markedly improved from what it is now.

 

They are not that far away.

[DefenseWins]

36 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Allen does not pass for 300 because of his inconsistent accuracy...like Kurt Warner said, he needs to learn how to become a passer and not just a thrower...

 

 teams that routinely throw for 300 yd per game are doing so because they don't have very productive running games. Their defenses aren't all that hot either. Teams that can run the ball well also tend to have better defensive stats as their defenses don't wear down in the 2nd half. Baltimore is another example of a team with a good running game/good defense. The Bills are not asking Allen to throw for 300 yds per game. They are 10-5 for good reasons. And personally I will settle for 10 wins any season over these other teams/QB's we are talking about. Allen wont be making $30 million per season for at least 2-3 more years. Plenty of time to judge his progress by then.

[Locomark]

7 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I'm watching both Giants & Jets games (one on TV, one on a computer with view of both at the same time) and I must admit Jones looks good today.  It looks like the 2 weeks on the sidelines helped him.  

Fits looks good all the time so I guess that means we should get him also.....

[BuffaloBills1998]

On 12/21/2019 at 7:27 PM, Tesla03 said:

very hard to say at this point.

 

Trubisky led his team to 12 wins, division title, and a missed FG away from a playoff win, this year they are burning his jersey in chicago. Bortles had very similar career stats to Allen,  led his team to the AFC championship game and almost won it, now he is a career backup. 

 

Allen is a gunslinger that doesn't put up gunslinger numbers. he has yet to reach 300 yards passing, constantly has poor completion %, struggles to hit deep balls. One thing is for sure though and that is I want to see him under a different OC very soon. Allen doesn't fit Dabolls offense and he refuses to scheme around his QB. Bring in someone like Jay Gruden. he turned Dalton into a top 10 QB. 

Omg again with the 300 yards passing bull####

[Lurker]

More confident than I am about the OP not ending up on my ignore list...

[T master]

I just hope that the Bills don't just blindly put him as the starter just because he has a big arm, sure thats a great place to start but there are other attributes  that can help you succeed at QB than a huge arm !

 

I would rather have a Chad Pennington type than some one that has a huge arm & is less accurate & you don't need to throw for 400 yds per game to be a NFL caliber QB .

 

Give him his chance to prove him self but if he stays mediocre then continue to bring in good talent to push him if nothing else . Just look at the Mullens kid in SF, then Minshew or the guy that is starting in Carolina now they're out there .

[Kiva]

I love the right Josh. When left Josh shows up I don’t love him. 

I prefer the right Josh. 

[Wagon Circler]

On 12/21/2019 at 10:25 PM, RyanC883 said:

how much longer is Daboll around.  He is awful.  A young QB needs rhythm and to be able to play his style.  Notice how the offense was much better at the end of the 1st and 2nd half?  Not surprising given that we had to pass, JA got into a rhythm, ran, and played HIS style.  

 

JA did also miss Knox twice on somewhat difficult passes, but ones that should be made by a franchise QB.  He also took too many sacks (should have thrown it way).  But I think this is typical 2nd year stuff.  Basically, JA can be great, but Daboll's playcalling is killing him.  

This guy got it right. Josh needs to get into a rhythm. When it's run run pass he can't do that. They need to ramshackle Josh, and let him chuck it.