we need a big receiver on the field for the end of games tired of this *****

[hemma]

That end of game pass to Beasley does look like an instance Duke may have had a shot. 

The defender had Beasley' boxed out' and there was no chance at all for him to get to that ball. 

Duke, with his largish butt, may have been able to box out the defender.  

 

Of course, if he had, we'd probably be complaining about the Offensive PI flag.

[Dopey]

13 hours ago, Augie said:

 

The point was made that the staff has made mistakes in the past, and that's certainly true. They have messed up, and the KB thing still has me scratching my head. 

 

Having said that, everybody gets some things wrong. The class valedictorian got a few wrong in high school, but I’ll take him/her over some mouth breather majoring in twinkies and PE. You go with the odds. To me personally, I’ll trust this staff to see and know enough about the guys they work with day in and day out and let them make the call. I’m sure they know we need more size, but maybe Duke just isn’t the guy to get it done right now. 

 

I’ll also say, if there EVER was a time to give him a shot, this might be that weekend. We can’t afford to lose anyone in front of him!

 

 

.

Not sure why the KB thing is so perplexing:

2013 at FSU 

54 rec. 1011 yds and 15 tds and he caught the game winning TD vs Auburn in the closing seconds of the College Championship game.

2014 w Carolina as a rookie

73 rec. 1008 yds and 9 tds  50 of those receptions went for 1st downs

2015 

Injured

2016

63 rec. 941 yds and 7 tds again 50 of those receptions went for 1st downs

2017

1st 8 games w Carolina

32 rec. 475 yds and 2 tds  21 of those receptions for 1st downs, on a similar pace to the previous year.

traded to the Bills for a 3rd and 7th

16 rec 217 yds and 1 td only with Peterman and Taylor at QB.

2018 was a disaster. I would give the reason for this as having a combination of Peterman, Anderson, Barkely and then Josh as a rookie. No oline to speak of and no TEs either.

My understanding was KB was let go because we were very slow at WR and wanted to infuse some speed (Foster and Zay).

The mistake I see, is we weren't at a point in the "process" where someone like him was needed, unless we felt he was someone to build off of. I don't think we were and that was the mistake. I am using hindsight here though. At the time we traded for him, Kelvin was worth a shot for a 3rd and a 7th. Sometimes the timing has to be right and it wasn't. Again, using hindsight.

All of that to say, I agree with you in trusting the staff on why Duke isn't playing. I also agree with playing him this weekend.

 

 

[ALF]

They were hoping Kroft or Knox could be the big receiver , so far not so good.

[Augie]

14 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Not sure why the KB thing is so perplexing:

2013 at FSU 

54 rec. 1011 yds and 15 tds and he caught the game winning TD vs Auburn in the closing seconds of the College Championship game.

2014 w Carolina as a rookie

73 rec. 1008 yds and 9 tds  50 of those receptions went for 1st downs

2015 

Injured

2016

63 rec. 941 yds and 7 tds again 50 of those receptions went for 1st downs

2017

1st 8 games w Carolina

32 rec. 475 yds and 2 tds  21 of those receptions for 1st downs, on a similar pace to the previous year.

traded to the Bills for a 3rd and 7th

16 rec 217 yds and 1 td only with Peterman and Taylor at QB.

2018 was a disaster. I would give the reason for this as having a combination of Peterman, Anderson, Barkely and then Josh as a rookie. No oline to speak of and no TEs either.

My understanding was KB was let go because we were very slow at WR and wanted to infuse some speed (Foster and Zay).

The mistake I see, is we weren't at a point in the "process" where someone like him was needed, unless we felt he was someone to build off of. I don't think we were and that was the mistake. I am using hindsight here though. At the time we traded for him, Kelvin was worth a shot for a 3rd and a 7th. Sometimes the timing has to be right and it wasn't. Again, using hindsight.

All of that to say, I agree with you in trusting the staff on why Duke isn't playing. I also agree with playing him this weekend.

 

 

 

My point was that KB looked like a big tub of goo out there and seemed generally disinterested. Yes, he had been productive at times, but that’s not the player we got in return for our draft picks. It almost instantly appeared to be a mistake. But that’s OK, nobody gets them all right. I’m sure they had their reasons, and I’m sure they’d want a do-over. 

 

We can’t afford to have a WR injured this week, so if they think Duke is the next guy, I’ll look forward to seeing him out there. 

[Rc2catch]

16 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

My point was that KB looked like a big tub of goo out there and seemed generally disinterested. Yes, he had been productive at times, but that’s not the player we got in return for our draft picks. It almost instantly appeared to be a mistake. But that’s OK, nobody gets them all right. I’m sure they had their reasons, and I’m sure they’d want a do-over. 

 

We can’t afford to have a WR injured this week, so if they think Duke is the next guy, I’ll look forward to seeing him out there. 

On the KB thing, it was just a gamble. 
We were a team in the playoff hunt that was not expected to be in a playoff hunt. They threw a dart and brought in someone who had potential and it just didn’t work out good.

I would guess most teams would of gambled a mid round pick for a former promising receiver for a playoff run. It was a fail in the end. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

Not sure why the KB thing is so perplexing:

2013 at FSU 

54 rec. 1011 yds and 15 tds and he caught the game winning TD vs Auburn in the closing seconds of the College Championship game.

2014 w Carolina as a rookie

73 rec. 1008 yds and 9 tds  50 of those receptions went for 1st downs

2015 

Injured

2016

63 rec. 941 yds and 7 tds again 50 of those receptions went for 1st downs

2017

1st 8 games w Carolina

32 rec. 475 yds and 2 tds  21 of those receptions for 1st downs, on a similar pace to the previous year.

traded to the Bills for a 3rd and 7th

16 rec 217 yds and 1 td only with Peterman and Taylor at QB.

2018 was a disaster. I would give the reason for this as having a combination of Peterman, Anderson, Barkely and then Josh as a rookie. No oline to speak of and no TEs either.

My understanding was KB was let go because we were very slow at WR and wanted to infuse some speed (Foster and Zay).

The mistake I see, is we weren't at a point in the "process" where someone like him was needed, unless we felt he was someone to build off of. I don't think we were and that was the mistake. I am using hindsight here though. At the time we traded for him, Kelvin was worth a shot for a 3rd and a 7th. Sometimes the timing has to be right and it wasn't. Again, using hindsight.

All of that to say, I agree with you in trusting the staff on why Duke isn't playing. I also agree with playing him this weekend.

 

 

 

He was huge - but didn't pull down 50/50 balls with any level of consistency.  He also developed some really bad habits with regards to work ethic and his hands weren't very good.  

 

Perhaps some of those things have creeped into duke's practices - not pulling in 50/50 passes, or dropping passes?  If he's not doing those things in practice consistently, he's probably not worth playing since you probably won't call a play trusting him to do it.  

1 hour ago, Rc2catch said:

On the KB thing, it was just a gamble. 
We were a team in the playoff hunt that was not expected to be in a playoff hunt. They threw a dart and brought in someone who had potential and it just didn’t work out good.

I would guess most teams would of gambled a mid round pick for a former promising receiver for a playoff run. It was a fail in the end. 

 

Yeah - 3 and 7 for a 4th year player with a 5th year option.  Could do worse in a trade.

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Nice post Augie? I’m Not saying I know that Duke is the answer, I’m just saying I’d like to see him have another chance before he’s tossed into the scrap heap. I would think we can all agree the receiving core is inadequate, and McKenzie brings very little to the table that we don’t already have. I also still say out of all of our receivers we have, I would have trusted Duke to battle for Allen’s last pass of the game more than anybody else’s on the roster, certainly more than a 5’8” Beasly .
This is all just to be a discussion among fans, and when posters just dismiss other people’s thoughts and try to ridicule them because they are different thoughts than theirs, this whole forum loses...

Perfect response. It's just very frustrating for fans to see him perform in 2 games only to be sent back to the bench. I can't wait for the day when the NFL allows team to activate all 53.

[Rochesterfan]

15 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Perfect response. It's just very frustrating for fans to see him perform in 2 games only to be sent back to the bench. I can't wait for the day when the NFL allows team to activate all 53.

I guess my real question is about your expectations in performing for him versus let’s say Zay Jones or McKenzie.  
 

All 3 guys averaged about 2 Catches or less per game.  They averaged between 7 and 10 yards per catch.  
 

The biggest difference is McKenzie can play special teams and is used for running plays and Duke is not.

 

Duke played in 3 games and after an initial good game - he had 1 catch in each of his next 2 games.  It is not like they benched a guy getting 5 - 10 catches a game.  He also gives them nothing else except receiver play - so you lose something from both Foster and McKenzie going to the bench.

 

I am fine if they want to use him, but please do not act like he was some kind of playmaker they benched.  His stats are not better than the guys currently playing and he gives them less flexibility when playing.

[Livinginthepast]

Do my eyes deceive me?? Can it be true? is Duke active this Sunday?!!

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2019/12/battles-with-tre-white-have-buffalo-bills-duke-williams-ready-to-bring-nasty-vs-jets.html

Edited December 27, 2019 by Livinginthepast

[GreggTX]

An AJ Green type would be great. A great passer would be so much better. Allen is an elite scrambler, but as a passer he leaves much to be desired. Also, I don't think Duke Willoams is the answer, but let's hope he is.

[Steptide]

14 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

Do my eyes deceive me?? Can it be true? is Duke active this Sunday?!!

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2019/12/battles-with-tre-white-have-buffalo-bills-duke-williams-ready-to-bring-nasty-vs-jets.html

I'll litterally be shocked if he isn't active tomorrow. Can't imagine beasley and brown are gonna play, plus Roberts is out 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Steptide

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 12/21/2019 at 6:53 PM, oldschoolfootball1963 said:

Let tell you something Mckenzie is ok but that’s not what we need he’s just like smoke and beasley. 

whats the point. Why is this coaching staff so stubborn on this issue. We are just pissing these games away at the end 

 

You do know our coach sees Williams in practice every day, right?

 

Williams sounds fired-up, but his fire is that he's gonna train his ass off in the off-season, work with Brown to become a better smoother route runner, and get faster.

That is what he needs to do to see our (or someone elses's) field on a more regular basis.

[Livinginthepast]

1 hour ago, Steptide said:

I'll litterally be shocked if he isn't active tomorrow. Can't imagine beasley and brown are gonna play, plus Roberts is out 

Once again there is no explanation in the article  as to why Duke was left out of the most of these games.

[Locomark]

Dear Op Ed please identify any end of the game TD that was a jump ball fade pass in the last decade. It not only never works, but Duke Williams is also not the All Pro type who will make that play which also requires a perfect touch pass from a QB, which is not Josh’s strength. Duke is a CFL player who happens to be bigger receiver. It is likely after the draft that he doesn’t even make next year’s roster. Please stop with the worship over a player that has proven nothing. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 12/21/2019 at 7:04 PM, Rc2catch said:

I don’t get it. 
Weeks past we’re dropping balls and duke is sure handed. Ok that is a fair point. 
Tonight, what did they need duke for? 
Allen missed two touchdowns to Knox. 
Is duke making those catches? Shaquille O’Neal in his prime isn’t making those catches. 
This game has zero to do with duke, or the receivers. Daboll had some bad calls, Allen missed throws, and the defense played soft and missed tackles. 
Sorry duke is not the difference between winning and losing today. This team had every chance to win. They did not execute. 

 

I think our OL deserves some "love" in your otherwise correct assessment.  I think the failure to see/throw to Brown was of more moment than the 1st TD to Knox - in fact, I would have liked to pass that up in favor of an easy toss to Singletary and see if he moves the chains.  I am unsure that Knox and Allen are on the same page with his routes.

 

46 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

Once again there is no explanation in the article  as to why Duke was left out of the most of these games.

 

I think McDermott should channel Mike Tomlin on that.  He really doesn't owe the press or the fans an explanation of his every roster decision.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

It was demoralizing when Allen threw the jump ball into the end zone in the New England game on the final play to our 5'8" receiver.

[billsfan_34]

On 12/26/2019 at 2:51 PM, dneveu said:

 

He was huge - but didn't pull down 50/50 balls with any level of consistency.  He also developed some really bad habits with regards to work ethic and his hands weren't very good.  

 

Perhaps some of those things have creeped into duke's practices - not pulling in 50/50 passes, or dropping passes?  If he's not doing those things in practice consistently, he's probably not worth playing since you probably won't call a play trusting him to do it.  

 

Yeah - 3 and 7 for a 4th year player with a 5th year option.  Could do worse in a trade.

Look no further than the Sabres for the worst trades possible- just sayin’

[JoPoy88]

2 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Look no further than the Sabres for the worst trades possible- just sayin’

You can just say it but the Sabres have no relevance here. Ownership’s not making these decisions.

[billsfan_34]

13 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

You can just say it but the Sabres have no relevance here. Ownership’s not making these decisions.

Don’t be that guy- just having a little fun. After 14 years on here I know whats relevant or not. 

[123719bwiqrb]

4 hours ago, Locomark said:

Dear Op Ed please identify any end of the game TD that was a jump ball fade pass in the last decade. It not only never works, but Duke Williams is also not the All Pro type who will make that play which also requires a perfect touch pass from a QB, which is not Josh’s strength. Duke is a CFL player who happens to be bigger receiver. It is likely after the draft that he doesn’t even make next year’s roster. Please stop with the worship over a player that has proven nothing. 

Brandon Reilly agrees.

[muppy]

Interesting discussion regarding the bills needing a big body WR to throw to in crunch time. I trust that McBeane know that this years WR draft class is one of the deeper positions available. Beyond the massive cap they have available should they decide to pull the trigger on a free agent. I think I read AJ Green will be franchise tagged or I’d love that guy in a bills uniform. I trust the guys in charge to search every nook and cranny to find a guy they think will fit and succeed in Buffalo. Kroft  being injured this year hampered his playing time or I’d have liked to have seem he targeted in some of those situations he wasn’t utilized as often as he or the bills had hoped he would bring as far as production/scoring in 2019 it’s a shame 

[oldschoolfootball1963]

I say this again because I started this thread, Foster and Mckenzie have not done much. Why have them active along with our do nothing fullback. Duke Williams won us a game against the Titans. He got injured in the next game on a great play and was never heard from again. I’m no Duke Williams fan boy I just want to win. You have to use the roster you have currently. It makes no sense to have 4 skilled players on the field that are shorter then 5 foot 10 inches. I’m counting Singletary on that list. Until we address this matter by free agency or in the draft next year it make real good sense to have Duke Williams on the active roster. End of story there should be no debate. Duke was our leading receiver in the preseason high pointing the ball all over the field and he won us a game in the clutch vs the Titans. He was the leading receiver in the Titans game as well. Go watch his CFL highlights all he does is go up high and high points his ball catches. He is a real weapon with size and talent. He was a five star recruit out of high school and the CFL leading receiver 2 years in a row. So spare me your response about how he is some low end recruit. Bottom line is I want to win Sean and Brandon are not perfect. There is no doubt having Duke Williams on the field makes us harder to defend. I want to win and that’s what matters most, I’m tired of watching midgets running all over the field. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by oldschoolfootball1963

[TuelTime]

Duke was very productive with his limited chances, so it was surprising to me that he wasn't given more. I get that the coaches see these guys in practice every day, but if we were building rosters based on player performance in practice Peterman would still be our QB and Zay Jones our #1 receiver. I really hope Duke puts something together tomorrow so we can see him active in the playoffs.

[iccrewman112]

A name to consider is Chase Claypool, from Notre Dame. 6ft 4 1/2. 220 pounds. Super athletic and agile. Hand catcher all the way. He makes a great acrobatic catch about once a game. Didn’t play football until late in high school and was an all province basketball player. He’s from Canada.

 

Lots of upside. Will be interesting to see what he runs in the 40. Give his highlights a look.

[LSHMEAB]

Anything Duke Williams can do, Dawson Knox "should" be able to do better. Knox is bigger AND faster. Yes, there have been some key drops, but the guy people are clamoring for is already on the roster. He just needs to catch the **** ball. 

 

The receivers ahead of Duke bring more to the table and the calculation is that those contributions are worth more than Duke's one high point ball opportunity per game. 

 

[BBills88]

This Justin Jefferson of LSU.

Is going to be a problem in the NFL.

I hope we grab him.

[Meatloaf63]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

Anything Duke Williams can do, Dawson Knox "should" be able to do better. Knox is bigger AND faster. Yes, there have been some key drops, but the guy people are clamoring for is already on the roster. He just needs to catch the **** ball. 

 

The receivers ahead of Duke bring more to the table and the calculation is that those contributions are worth more than Duke's one high point ball opportunity per game. 

 

Except that one high point is probably the game winner and Knox will most likely drop it or run the route incorrectly. McKenzie doesn’t bring very much to the table in fact nothing that Brown doesn’t already give us. In the end saying Duke would only get one catch a game is pretty ridiculous...

3 minutes ago, BBills88 said:

This Justin Jefferson of LSU.

Is going to be a problem in the NFL.

I hope we grab him.

He just caught a pass that was 6” off the turf, the kind nobody currently on our roster makes, and are always labeled un catchable Josh Allen passes.

[Meatloaf63]

6 minutes ago, BBills88 said:

This Justin Jefferson of LSU.

Is going to be a problem in the NFL.

I hope we grab him.

4 touchdowns now, he looks fantastic, so does Burroughs..,

[LSHMEAB]

7 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Except that one high point is probably the game winner and Knox will most likely drop it or run the route incorrectly. McKenzie doesn’t bring very much to the table in fact nothing that Brown doesn’t already give us. In the end saying Duke would only get one catch a game is pretty ridiculous...

I just don't know how Williams lasted on the practice squad as long as he did....you'd think there'd be 31 teams pouncing on the opportunity to ***** up a guy who'd PROBABLY catch game winning passes on the regular.

[OZBILLS]

11 minutes ago, BBills88 said:

This Justin Jefferson of LSU.

Is going to be a problem in the NFL.

I hope we grab him.

6'3 WR with handles.

Yes please.

[Scott7975]

11 hours ago, Steptide said:

I'll litterally be shocked if he isn't active tomorrow. Can't imagine beasley and brown are gonna play, plus Roberts is out 

 

Roberts is already out.  There is zero reason for him to not be active now.

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You do know our coach sees Williams in practice every day, right?

 

Williams sounds fired-up, but his fire is that he's gonna train his ass off in the off-season, work with Brown to become a better smoother route runner, and get faster.

That is what he needs to do to see our (or someone elses's) field on a more regular basis.

 

Yeah well they seen  Singletary in practice every week and limited in game time too.  It still took them half a season before they actually started using him.  Fans clamored for it all season.  Coaches aren't always right.  They may be in this case but not necessarily.

[Don Otreply]

4 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Anything Duke Williams can do, Dawson Knox "should" be able to do better. Knox is bigger AND faster. Yes, there have been some key drops, but the guy people are clamoring for is already on the roster. He just needs to catch the **** ball. 

 

The receivers ahead of Duke bring more to the table and the calculation is that those contributions are worth more than Duke's one high point ball opportunity per game. 

 

You, like our coaches are wrong on this specific issue, no your wrong, so are they, no you’re still wrong. They don’t bring jack to the table, look at their production, their combined production equals jack, no you’re still wrong, and so are the coaches on this specific issue. What we all want is production that reflects in wins, and those guys are not taken seriously by opposing teams, you know why? because they don’t produce. Yah I don’t care what others say on this specific issue, they are wrong. ?? yes this specific issue. ??

 

damn I need  a beer now...  how about you? ??

 

10-5 baby!

 

Playoff bound!!

 

Go Bills!!!

[LSHMEAB]

2 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

 

 

damn I need  a beer now...  how about you? ??

 

 

You buyin?

[Don Otreply]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

You buyin?

Sure ?

[Livinginthepast]

On 12/28/2019 at 10:37 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I think McDermott should channel Mike Tomlin on that.  He really doesn't owe the press or the fans an explanation of his every roster decision.

 

The media forced Mcd to explain playing Peterman to the detriment of the team and they have always at least inquired about player decisions (good or bad). So why the non explanation of Duke's inactivity. If its not a big deal then just address it.  its a little strange to simply drop a player who is productive when asked to be, replace him with players that aren't that productive and keep the player inactive.  I think its pretty good question which the local media seem to be afraid to ask.

[NewEra]

Is this the game that Duke Williams breaks the tsw internet?

[Scott7975]

On 12/28/2019 at 9:28 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You do know our coach sees Williams in practice every day, right?

 

Williams sounds fired-up, but his fire is that he's gonna train his ass off in the off-season, work with Brown to become a better smoother route runner, and get faster.

That is what he needs to do to see our (or someone elses's) field on a more regular basis.

 

I see him in a football game so he should be active.  He was the bright spot of our lackluster offense today and we probably would have won if Barkley could throw.

[Billsfan1972]

Pretty obvious to anyone who is not coaching the Bills.....  Makes no sense.

[Patrick Duffy]

Think Duke did enough today to get the nod next week? Had a drop but overall had a pretty good game.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy

[oldschoolfootball1963]

Any Question Duke Williams haters.