Brian Daboll has no future here

[Process]

Daboll shouldn't** have a future here. I don't know if I trust McD to make the right move. 

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, GG said:

Is there a possibility that the OC is bad because the QB can't consistently execute?

I will guarantee you this: if Allen was a good QB who consistently made throws and produced points, no one, and I mean no one, would be bitching about the offensive coordinator.

 

Bitching about the OC is usually code for "our QB is no good."

 

Having said that, I do not think Daboll is particularly impressive.

 

The only thing Josh Allen does well is run the football.  We should be using him in a very run-heavy offense, similar to what Baltimore is doing with Lamar Jackson.

 

Instead, Daboll and McD insist on trying to pretend Allen is a pocket passer.

 

He was used "properly" in the sense I am discussing here only a few plays in the entire NE game.

 

I would love to see that improved and I think with better coaching Allen could have been more productive this season.

 

 

 

 

[ticketssince61]

It seems We ran the ball up the middle 90% of the time on first down

 

No creativity on offense, no screen passes to minimize the pass rush, 

 

Those are on the OC

 

Cody ford totally whiffing on the last 2 plays was inexcusable 

 

 

[CoudyBills]

3 hours ago, Tesla03 said:

End of discussion. the guy is clueless when it comes to putting together a top offense. 

 

28th in the league in pass offense. ranked bottom 10 in almost every single important category. You saw on that last drive how he is holding back this offense. How come when the game is on the line our offense suddenly becomes alive? Allen was going off script and making plays with his arm and legs. 

 

Daboll has 1 more year to figure his job out or he needs to go. being ranked bottom 5 pass offense as a 10 win playoff team is a joke. 

And he still schemes 2 touchdown passes a game that Josh misses.  Dont forget that part.

[Nelius]

I'm not a fan but I'm torn. On one hand he's got to shoulder blame for the conservative nature of our offense and frankly some of the bias that goes into our personnel in my opinion (Robert Foster), but on the other we're in the playoffs and our QB has 29 TDs on the season, so something is working. I'm very skeptical that Daboll is the answer, but we've improved over last year and I fear that the possibility of even losing a season with the addition of a new OC really isn't an option with Allen's current growth arc. I love Allen, but let's be honest - if we for example replace Daboll after this season, and Allen is even worse next year, then we're right back in draft a QB territory and are spinning our wheels. I'm leaning toward sticking with Daboll, but I don't like it. 

[SCBills]

Eh, a lot of it is execution...

 

That being said, the constant first down runs today were predictable, beyond frustrating and really hurt our offense. 
 

The three straight runs, to go 3 and out, up 17-13, was just brutal to watch.  
 

The QB sweep on 1st and Goal from the 8.... just, no. Stop it. 

[Thurmal34]

I don’t understand this topic, the guy consistently comes up with opponent specific game plans that keep us in every game. There doesn’t always have to be a scapegoat. It could just be that we are the 88 Bills - knocking on the door but not quite ready. 

[Nelius]

3 hours ago, boater said:

Weird phrase to start a thread.

 

Ha, and furthermore how about a suggestion? I don't think anybody out there gives Daboll more than a ho-him B, but who exactly do you replace him with to make sure that our still raw, young QB doesn't miss a beat with his development? I fear replacing Daboll ultimately turns into replacing our QB a year later, and then probably drafting another WR in the first round, and then we're right back to struggling for an 8-8 record for the better part of a decade. Sounds like a Black Mirror episode strictly for Bills fans. Things are working right now, and we probably shouldn't break it.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Nelius

[BringBackOrton]

33 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I will guarantee you this: if Allen was a good QB who consistently made throws and produced points, no one, and I mean no one, would be bitching about the offensive coordinator.

 

Bitching about the OC is usually code for "our QB is no good."

 

Having said that, I do not think Daboll is particularly impressive.

 

The only thing Josh Allen does well is run the football.  We should be using him in a very run-heavy offense, similar to what Baltimore is doing with Lamar Jackson.

 

Instead, Daboll and McD insist on trying to pretend Allen is a pocket passer.

 

He was used "properly" in the sense I am discussing here only a few plays in the entire NE game.

 

I would love to see that improved and I think with better coaching Allen could have been more productive this season.

 

 

 

 

You’re actually wrong. Everyone ***** about McDaniels in NE basically every time the Pats lose.

[White Linen]

1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said:

I don’t believe you.

 

Oh I think you do

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, White Linen said:

 

Oh I think you do

Not even a little bit. Josh leaves a routine play on the field almost every single drive.

[Nihilarian]

I've been one of his biggest critics this season. Yet, he doesn't throw, doesn't block. The offense needs some better talent and we will see.

 

Allen needs more experience. The Line needs upgrades. The offense needs that one go to WR /TE that can't be stopped. 

 

Still, the Bills were in the red zone about to score to tie the game and just couldn't get it done...against the leagues #1 defense. 

 

If I find fault its that the run game needs to be more diverse along with finding a way to get that run game going against anyone. 

[Bookie Man]

I'd love to Allen in a Rams type offense. I could see him thriving in that system. Play action on the those deep crossers. He has the arm to make some of those cross field throws.

[Boatdrinks]

I think Daboll can draw up some plays, but has little feel for when to call them. I’m not a huge fan of criticizing playcalling in general, but Daboll seems to just throw things out there. Far too many first down runs, no emphasis on screens to slow the pass rush and too many low percentage passes in the red zone. However, if he departs they should consider bumping up Ken Dorsey and keeping the basis of the offense. No need to start over, and Josh doesn’t seem to have any rapport with Daboll. He apparently speaks highly of Ken Dorsey, and that may be what the offense needs. 

40 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Eh, a lot of it is execution...

 

That being said, the constant first down runs today were predictable, beyond frustrating and really hurt our offense. 
 

The three straight runs, to go 3 and out, up 17-13, was just brutal to watch.  
 

The QB sweep on 1st and Goal from the 8.... just, no. Stop it. 

Hated that sweep call, and hoped he had scrapped it weeks ago. In that goal to go situation it was a wasted down. 

[White Linen]

39 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Not even a little bit. Josh leaves a routine play on the field almost every single drive.

 

Yet you're completely fine with the offensive game plan and play calling?

[MJS]

4 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Who would have known that an OC who’s been bad every chance he’s had in the NFL would be a bad OC for us? 
 

McD is 0-2 on OC choices. I doubt he gets fired though because continuity or something ridiculous.

McDermott won't be fired because he's talent the tram to the playoffs two out of 3 years and has a winning record as a coach. Something bad about that after near 20 years of Bills futility?

[White Linen]

3 minutes ago, MJS said:

McDermott won't be fired because he's talent the tram to the playoffs two out of 3 years and has a winning record as a coach. Something bad about that after near 20 years of Bills futility?

 

I think he's meaning Daboll.  

[MJS]

Just now, White Linen said:

 

I think he's meaning Daboll.  

He referenced McDermott.

[BillsFan692]

4 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Its not about play calls its about execution. Dawson Knox was wide open in the corner of the endzone and he put it about a foot too high. The OC can't make up for continuous poor execution.

Lol this is dumb. The back shoulder corner end zone is not an easy shot as Kurt Warner said on TV. A lot of QBs miss on that time to time. Josh threw it safely so only his guy had a chance and we picked up 3 points on the drive. We lost by more than 4 buckaroo.

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

I’ll middle this discussion.  Allen HAS to hit Knox there.  But we also have to throw the ball more on first down to win games like this one.  Normally I think the daboll criticisms are very unfair, but I didn’t like our approach today.  
 

Also, for what it’s worth, I though we were way too conservative on D and overall didn’t play so well tonight. by contrast, NE was basically perfect.  And they had to be to beat us. I have a LOT of hope for the playoffs and for the future. 

 

I agree that NE played basically as well as they could with who they have now personnel wise and still barely won. That bodes well. I think the D played probably around 60% of what they normally do and the offense is kind of what they have been all year long. Allen actually hit a few deep passes for a change but again had some issues. I am comfortable he will improve on these in the off-season...he has come so far in such a short period of time that it is really exciting to think what he could be next year and the following years.

[BillsFan692]

Daboll puts our offense into conservative mode once we have a lead at the direction of Sean McDermott. Its actually McDermott who likes to play what I used to think was "tyrod ball" but am now realizing its actually "mcdermott ball".

 

He needs to grow as a coach, he holds both Daboll and Allen back. Then again, allen has shown at times this season he needed to be held back. They need to find the sweet spot it isnt right.

[Locomark]

4 hours ago, Maynard said:

It’s Daboll, it’s Allen overthrowing. It all needs to improve. 

You forgot our star receiver had 1 catch (a big one) and our star RB had no running room and the OL looked bad again. To me the deciding factor was the 4 sacks and lack of any first down running game, not Allen. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Locomark

[BuffaloFan68]

Way too early for this.  Daboll would go right back to NE & we would regret it for years.  We got rid of Greg Roman too quick and look how he’s doing now.  I do disagree with this close game, chess match strategy but let’s give him a little more time.
 Let’s Go Buffalo!!!!!

[Bangarang]

55 minutes ago, MJS said:

He referenced McDermott.

I already said I was referring to Daboll.

6 minutes ago, BuffaloFan68 said:

Way too early for this.  Daboll would go right back to NE & we would regret it for years.  We got rid of Greg Roman too quick and look how he’s doing now.  I do disagree with this close game, chess match strategy but let’s give him a little more time.
 Let’s Go Buffalo!!!!!

Except Greg Roman actually had good offenses here and Daboll hasn’t. 

[transplantbillsfan]

5 hours ago, GG said:

Is there a possibility that the OC is bad because the QB can't consistently execute?

 

Or maybe the OC is just used to working with a seasoned vet like Brady and doesn't actually understand the concept of getting a young QB in rhythm in order to build confidence.

 

Daboll does some good things, but overall it's our OC who isn't consistently executing, not our young QB, who essentially carried the team today and had a 102.7 Passer Rating.

[die hard bills fan]

My issue is he doesn't change personnel.  It's the same all the time....Brown, Beasley, Singularity running the same plays...with a smattering of Knox, Foster and Mckenzie.  They are not scoring enough.   Activate Yeldon for more rb pass options and Duke as the bigger physical receiver to give the offense more options.  I don't  understand they don't use them.

[transplantbillsfan]

https://theathletic.com/1480032/2019/12/22/7-observations-from-bills-patriots-josh-allens-moments-of-greatness-undone-by-inconsistency?source=shared-article

The infuriating end to the final drive

Regardless of the hot-and-cold quarterbacking Allen provided, the young quarterback was white-hot to begin their final offensive possession. He moved the ball with ease and racked up six first downs to get the Bills all the way down to New England’s 8-yard line. Despite all of their inefficiency throughout the game, Allen and the Bills had a good chance at forcing overtime. And then, the Bills got a bit too predictable for my liking.

 

Offensive coordinator Brian Daboll has done a good job for most of the season while trying to manage life with a high-variance second-year quarterback. However, Daboll’s personnel grouping decision starting with first-and-goal was a misfire. Heading into the game, wide receiver Andre Roberts had participated in 96 offensive snaps all season and had a grand total of three receptions to his name. Usually, when he’s in the game, it means the Bills are likely to run the ball to the edge to take advantage of his blocking prowess. There have been a few examples of the Bills trying something unique with Roberts on the field, but they tend to run it wide when he’s in the game. The Patriots saw this, played the odds and thwarted the Allen sweep left for a 1-yard loss, which also set the tone for the next three downs. Allen flat missed Knox on second down, but then the Bills were in a negative, 3rd-and-long situation. From there, the Patriots brought pressure to Allen; he couldn’t do anything with it, and New England escaped with a close win. The Bills could have put themselves in a much better position to keep the Patriots on their toes to start the goal-to-go situation by maintaining the personnel that helped get them there in the first place. The Bills had the Patriots guessing, and then they took the guesswork out of it with the game hanging in the balance.

[Kelly the Dog]

7 hours ago, GG said:

Yeah, that must be it.  The OC is intentionally tanking the offense for the first 3 quarters. 

 

How about asking the QB to make a routine throw to his TE from the 15 yd line?

That was not at all a routine throw. He cannot under any circumstance throw it on a line or be short. The DB was right there. He cannot be long, which he was because it is out or the end zone. He cannot loft it unless it is perfect. That said, he had another chance later on a harder throw. But a top level QB hits one of those two. Neither was easy at all. But he needs to hit one of the two difficult ones. And he didn't. Neither was a routine throw. And he did hit two ridiculous bombs. 

6 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:

Story of the game is Allen hits Brown on a bomb td.  The D finally gets a stop .  We have a 17-13 lead  and instead of trying to expand it our offense goes out and Daboll runs Singeltary on back to back runs into a heavy run D front  Its been the same story all year  Team does not know how to go for the jugular  Too worried to make a mistake to make a big p;ay

I think this is a huge problem but more McD dictating than Daboll. Hard to know. But I think Josh and Daboll are hamstrung by McD. 

[Kelly the Dog]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The offense is garbage but I can't see Daboll going anywhere.

 

Allen has always been a terrible fit for this style of offense.

 

It's complicated for a young QB and not matched to his strengths.

 

But *maybe* this offseason Allen can grow as a passer and start hitting the windows that are required to make it work.

 

He's putting in the effort but right now he just misses way too many throws that need to be made to make it work.

 

If he can't learn to hit those layups the defense gives him then they will have to go in another direction schematically on offense.  

 

It would be smarter to play to his ridiculous strengths than make him fit this offense. 

[Chandler#81]

7 hours ago, Tesla03 said:

End of discussion. the guy is clueless when it comes to putting together a top offense. 

 

28th in the league in pass offense. ranked bottom 10 in almost every single important category. You saw on that last drive how he is holding back this offense. How come when the game is on the line our offense suddenly becomes alive? Allen was going off script and making plays with his arm and legs. 

 

Daboll has 1 more year to figure his job out or he needs to go. being ranked bottom 5 pass offense as a 10 win playoff team is a joke. 

This thread is embarrassing.

[Kelly the Dog]

5 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

This thread is embarrassing.

It's  very tough to know where McD's influence ends and Daboll's independence begins. I personally think Daboll would be much more aggressive on his own. I think McD insists on running more and restraining Josh more than Daboll does. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

7 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Its not about play calls its about execution. Dawson Knox was wide open in the corner of the endzone and he put it about a foot too high. The OC can't make up for continuous poor execution.

 

Come on man, I get Allen wasn't on par the whole game but where is the help for him? If he's struggling to throw how about a screen pass? Did we even throw one? Does this OC know what a screen pass is? We got burned once again for what seems like the millionth time against Brady and the screen pass, why is it so hard for any OC who comes here to even attempt them? Easy throws that Allen can get some confidence from. Most of the throws are 20+ yards down field and that's not just on Allen, if he has designed runs why not designed screen passes to get his swagger back? This offense lacks any sort of creativity. Like when you saw the Eagles win the SB against Tom Brady do you think Daboll would have had even half the balls to run that Philly special? 

[GunnerBill]

I have defended Daboll a lot this year. I thought he was horrible yesterday. Ran it too much. Should have thrown deep earlier to open up the underneath throws more. Failed to identify the right matchups.... 

 

Yes, the oline played its worst game of the year. 

Yes, especially early Josh Allen had some horrible misses.

 

But I hated that gameplan. Awful. Someone has told him to run the ball more and we look worse for it. 

3 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

This offense lacks any sort of creativity. Like when you saw the Eagles win the SB against Tom Brady do you think Daboll would have had even half the balls to run that Philly special? 

 

He might have the balls with 6 seconds left before HT and one shot to get in to throw a pass to his starting LT. 

 

There are many things this offense is missing. Creativity and trickery is definitely not one of them. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

10 hours ago, Tesla03 said:

 

you do realize the only reason the defense played bad was bc they were gassed the entire 2nd half. 

 

look at the TOP before our final drive. 

 

And who was to blame for that? Were they gassed in the first half when they just couldn't tackle anybody?

[Nihilarian]

With any luck perhaps the Bills face this team again in a few weeks...with a different outcome.

[Mango]

11 hours ago, Tesla03 said:

 

the pats show obvious blitz and he doesn't even bother to put in extra blockers. 

 

Daboll hasn't got a clue how to do his job. constantly getting out coached. when we can't rely on our defense to make stops and turnovers this is what happens. 

 

I was surprised we didn’t burn our last TO after taking a look at the Pats D. It’s the final offensive play of the game. There is nothing to save a TO for. They needed more time to get set there. 

[DCOrange]

11 hours ago, BigBobby said:

No way u are right. I'm talking about designed runs. Not play breakdown scrambles. Not possible that play works well statistically. It's like gore up the middle.

I’ll try to find the article but I’m not even really sure where to start lol. It was definitely specifically about the QB sweeps though. 

[Mango]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Or maybe the OC is just used to working with a seasoned vet like Brady and doesn't actually understand the concept of getting a young QB in rhythm in order to build confidence.

 

Daboll does some good things, but overall it's our OC who isn't consistently executing, not our young QB, who essentially carried the team today and had a 102.7 Passer Rating.

 

Allen has had bad games throwing the call 40 times as well. It’s not like there hasn’t been an attempt. Allen is unpredictably hot and cold. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Mango

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

And who was to blame for that? Were they gassed in the first half when they just couldn't tackle anybody?

 

Actually they did tackle people in the first half. The defense did not play great yesterday but most of the whiffs were in the 4th Quarter and they go no help from the O sustaining drives. The O was a major problem yesterday despite the two terrific plays that brought about our touchdowns. Not all on Josh. Far from it. A lot on Daboll actually. But the O killed the defense yesterday. Not a single first down between us taking the lead and the Pats going up by a TD. The D forced a 3 and out in that time too. Just bad offensive football. 

[Mango]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Actually they did tackle people in the first half. The defense did not play great yesterday but most of the whiffs were in the 4th Quarter and they go no help from the O sustaining drives. The O was a major problem yesterday despite the two terrific plays that brought about our touchdowns. Not all on Josh. Far from it. A lot on Daboll actually. But the O killed the defense yesterday. Not a single first down between us taking the lead and the Pats going up by a TD. The D forced a 3 and out in that time too. Just bad offensive football. 

 

Defense got worked by play action especially yesterday. Brady and BB came prepared and picked on Edmunds and drew Philips off sides. Defense did ok making contact but couldn’t wrap up. Also gifted the offense the ball within field goal range. Offense did next to nothing with it. If not for that, it’s a 2 possession game. 

 

That said, they did enough to keep the game in reach. 17 points might not be enough to beat the Bengals on any given Sunday. For the first 28 minutes we were 3/9 and something like 11 net yards after sacks. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Mango