Wk 14 Postgame Thread Bills lose to Ravens 24-17

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

If it was the same as the cowboys game officials, Ravens would have been called for illegal contact just about every play. They let both sides grab a lot.

[MDH]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

Just watched this play again.  Beasley was in the middle of the spin to break free when Allen makes his decision to throw to Brown.  
 

At the moment of decision, Beasley was still covered.  
 

That .5 seconds of this pic made all the difference 

QBs have to read leverage. Brown was covered. If he looks to Beasley he’d see the DBs hips turned the wrong way and immediately know Beasley has his man beaten. He shouldn’t be waiting until Beasley is actually open to make that decision.

 

It looks like Allen saw single coverage one Brown and was going there no matter what.

[GregPersons]

13 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

Little TBD love nugget: the discussion here, as this thread progresses, is solid. Mostly clear-eyed, objective perspectives. Nice to see after a frustrating loss.

 

Maybe the knee-jerks have gone to bed?

 

Not to get in the way of bashing other posters, but there's probably some room for a li'l more love in that nugget. Another explanation is that the team is simply playing more consistently... leading to a more consistent dialogue from the fans. The team has solidified its identity over the last month-plus. There are fewer questions about, say, Allen's abilities than there were in September. 

 

My take on today's game is similar to everyone's — although it hurts that lost today, the team did not look outclassed. They were inches from winning. Obviously there are the drops. For another example, Tremaine Edmunds on the last Baltimore touchdown -- Edmunds had a solid day but he's still improving, and Edmunds a "level up" in his progression is maybe is in a slightly better position to get a hand on that ball or even pick it off.

 

Edmunds was the one I'd been saying all week would be the key to the game. That proved to be true. He mostly played one of his best games, I thought. He and the rest of the defense effectively contained Jackson-- they held them to 24 when Baltimore is a team capable of scoring 40+ in most weeks. This wasn't the "breakout game" for Edmunds that I hoped for, but it was definitely a "progression" game where you can see his tools getting sharper.

 

So even in the loss, this looked like a team that should be able to control the game against Pittsburgh, even though it's an away game at night... and they look like a team that's ready to punch New England straight in the mouth. 

[GregPersons]

26 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Why did he run a bad route?   Fourth down and game on the line, why would he not do his best?  This cannot happen. 

 

What was bad about Brown's route running on the last play? Genuinely asking. That did not appear to be a WR error -- it was just excellent coverage. IMO the problem was that Brown wasn't getting those targets throughout... Peters is a great CB, and I'm sure the separation wasn't ideal, but Brown needed more opportunities. He got fewer targets than Dawson Knox. 

 

Separately — here's a question I'd like to know the answer to — why can't we try Duke Williams at TE??? What is going on there??? I wouldn't sit any of the WRs but I would deactivate Tyler Kroft (or better yet Lee Smith but I know McD loves his ST play). 

 

3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB — Brown, Beasley, Foster/McKenzie, Duke, Singletary

 

2 WR, 2 TE, 1 RB — Brown, Beasley, Duke, Knox/Smith, Singletary/Gore

 

 

[Chandler#81]

7 hours ago, 12+83=6 said:

Why go to the playoffs when the offense/Allen plays like this?

Mind-numbingly stupid post.

 

But, Hey! Welcome to the Board!

[wvbillsfan]

Maybe this has been mentioned in this thread. I’ve read most of it and could’ve missed it

 

Has anyone figured out why we didn’t max protect today?

Did the press ask?

Did it happen and I’m ignorant to it?

Was the plan to spread them out and if so where were the quick hitters to beat the man coverage?

Josh took a beating. Some maybe all was his fault. Just seems like if he wasn’t getting through his reads quick enough we could’ve left more blockers in. Again it could’ve happened but I sure don’t remember it

[Chandler#81]

8 hours ago, SDS said:

Thanks. I’ve got everyone telling me they know exactly what happened because I posted a screenshot when clearly I would have had to have watched the video in order to make that assessment and take the screen grab. You would think anyone disagreeing with this would actually go back and watch the video however they can find it before they make a counter argument.

Ain’t it Great here?!??

[JoPoy88]

Eh, a 1 score loss to (arguably) the best team in the league when it’s pretty clear the bills didn’t play their best ball? I’ll take that. No moral victories or anything, but I’d feel pretty good if we had to play them again.

 

[Chandler#81]

8 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

c ya kid...

How’d you know? You got ESPn or somein’..?

Yes, he’s a street urchin tonight.

8 hours ago, 12+83=6 said:

Always the apologist.  Said the same thing about EJ and JP.  Guys like you keep making excuses.

and guys like you don’t stick around long.

[Franco_92]

Oh, and never wear red on red again. Of course it has no real impact - but that's not my team, that's not its colors, or its identity 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Did McD address at all after the game his decision not to challenge the PI non-call on Foster? That seemed like it was worth challenging. 

[BillsFan692]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Upthread @SDS posted a screen capture where he had Beasley circled and labeled "TD", but from the Nextgen simulation above, it looks as though at the point where Allen threw, Beasley had not yet started his break.  There's a DB and an LB pushing the L side of the line back towards Allen.  There is a pocket he could step up into, but perhaps he felt he couldn't count on time to let the play develop another second or two.

 

At the point where Allen threw, was Beasley looking for the Ball yet still too covered?    There seems to be a Ravens DL and an LB almost in line between Allen and Beasley.  Did Allen reject that route because he was afraid that would be tipped?  Beasley may not have had separation yet.

 

I think Josh made the right decision to throw to Brown.  It's 4th down; if Beasley makes the catch but gets stuffed short of the 1st down the game is over.  And he got the ball there.

 

This route by brown looks pretty bad. Is that how dabs drew it up? I feel like his vertical route should be more straight and his cut to the middle more sharp.  Hell id have been happy for him cuting to the middle hard at any point but instead its just like a lazy looking route to me *shrug* hindsight is 20/20 but I feel like we need more WR help.

 

If allen had waited another 0.5 sec he might have saw beasely coming open... of course same fans expecting that are the guys that say "he held onto football too long all day" so you cant win either way. If he holds it there and takes a sack everybody would be crying even harder. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

14 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

This route by brown looks pretty bad. Is that how dabs drew it up? I feel like his vertical route should be more straight and his cut to the middle more sharp.  Hell id have been happy for him cuting to the middle hard at any point but instead its just like a lazy looking route to me *shrug* hindsight is 20/20 but I feel like we need more WR help.

 

If allen had waited another 0.5 sec he might have saw beasely coming open... of course same fans expecting that are the guys that say "he held onto football too long all day" so you cant win either way. If he holds it there and takes a sack everybody would be crying even harder. 

 

I like our WRs but i don't love em. Talent is there but need better hands and in some cases better route running.

 

 

We need guys who can fight for the ball and make adjustments to Josh as well.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Buffalo Barbarian

[Scott7975]

7 hours ago, the skycap said:

This is showing Beasley break open for what irs worth

he breaks open after Allen makes his decision. He breaks open at the 2 yard line on 4-8. Brown was the read one on one in man. He is supposed to be the best receiver. That’s the read and that’s where the ball Is always going on 4th and game

[Wayne Cubed]

5 hours ago, MDH said:

QBs have to read leverage. Brown was covered. If he looks to Beasley he’d see the DBs hips turned the wrong way and immediately know Beasley has his man beaten. He shouldn’t be waiting until Beasley is actually open to make that decision.

 

It looks like Allen saw single coverage one Brown and was going there no matter what.

 

Right but it's an all out blitz and Brown is obviously first read, with M2M single coverage. Beasley is probably 3rd read on that play. With how the OL had been playing all game and the fact that he see's Brown 1v1 going past the 1st down, to me that's the correct decision. There's no way of knowing if Allen comes off Brown and goes to Beasley, that Beasely get's the first down. Yea he may of beat his man but the other Secondary players, there's 2 behind the play, would have come off their coverage to tackle. He's literally 7 yards short of the 1st down.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I like our WRs but i don't love em. Talent is there but need better hands and in some cases better route running.

 

 

We need guys who can fight for the ball and make adjustments to Josh as well.

 

 

 

....which seemed to be a characteristic of Duke....who has now vanished.........

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, wvbillsfan said:

Maybe this has been mentioned in this thread. I’ve read most of it and could’ve missed it

 

Has anyone figured out why we didn’t max protect today?

Did the press ask?

Did it happen and I’m ignorant to it?

Was the plan to spread them out and if so where were the quick hitters to beat the man coverage?

Josh took a beating. Some maybe all was his fault. Just seems like if he wasn’t getting through his reads quick enough we could’ve left more blockers in. Again it could’ve happened but I sure don’t remember it

We're going to have to look at the film and see what adjustments we could've made.  What worked.  What didn't.  

 

I'm not going to get into specifics but we could've executed better.  It's something we'll learn from moving forward.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, SCBills said:

Im a big Allen guy,  but he was bad today.  It’s ok to admit that.  
 

He’s made a ton of progress and has really played well against a few above average defenses (Dallas/Denver) of late.  
 

What he needs to improve upon is his performance against elite defenses and for the love of all that’s holy, figure out the deep ball...  He’s a young QB, struggling is ok, but he’s been a dumpster fire against the two elite defenses we’ve seen - Baltimore and New England.  
 

Of course, he’s not alone. The entire offense has failed against those two teams, which leads to a larger point of us needing to upgrade at WR, RB and probably TE this offseason.  Brown, Beasley, Knox and Singletary is a good start but obviously not the finished product, and by design.. we all knew this needed another offseason to complete.  
 

The OL was uncharacteristically bad, but most OL’s will look bad when your QB is struggling against zero blitzes all game.

 

I say this with great respect, understanding that we do, eventually need a QB who can complete those deep throws:  ***** the deep ball.  It was blowing a gale out there.  A low-percentage play is going to be lower percentage in those conditions. 

 

The deep ball isn't what lost us the game.  What lost us the game was Allen trying to make a first down on every throw especially early in the game, when he could have taken the quick easy throws on 3rd and 4 or turned 2nd and 10 into 3rd and 4.  He had enough protection to make those throws and he needs to take them and put some trust in Singletary and/or Brown's feet.

 

Our TE Knox and Kroft got pwned today when asked to block in pass protection.  Morse got beaten like a drum a few times- though Allen could have gotten the ball out long before that time.  But still, you don't want to see your starting center getting thrown a** over teakettle.

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, BillsFan692 said:

This route by brown looks pretty bad. Is that how dabs drew it up? I feel like his vertical route should be more straight and his cut to the middle more sharp.  Hell id have been happy for him cuting to the middle hard at any point but instead its just like a lazy looking route to me *shrug* hindsight is 20/20 but I feel like we need more WR help.

 

If allen had waited another 0.5 sec he might have saw beasely coming open... of course same fans expecting that are the guys that say "he held onto football too long all day" so you cant win either way. If he holds it there and takes a sack everybody would be crying even harder. 

It's becoming more clear why Beane bothered inquiring about AB before realizing he was a mental case.  I see future stars in DK Metcalf, Terry McLaurin, AJ Brown, etc...  and some of us were pounding the table to draft one of them in the 2nd round.  Especially AJ Brown in my case as we needed a precise route runner considering at the time I only though Brown, Foster, McKenzie were just speed guys with limited route running ability.  I felt like we adequately addressed the o-line in free agency at the time.  Cody Ford has been underwhelming and I hope they move him to guard next year where he'll hopefully develop into an above average starter.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It's becoming more clear why Beane bothered inquiring about AB before realizing he was a mental case.  I see future stars in DK Metcalf, Terry McLaurin, AJ Brown, etc...  and some of us were pounding the table to draft one of them in the 2nd round.  Especially AJ Brown in my case as we needed a precise route runner considering at the time I only though Brown, Foster, McKenzie were just speed guys with limited route running ability.  I felt like we adequately addressed the o-line in free agency at the time.  Cody Ford has been underwhelming and I hope they move him to guard next year where he'll hopefully develop into an above average starter.

 

Some of us were pounding the table to take Metcalf in the first. Because some of us KNEW that was our #1 need.

 

[Magox]

They need one more quality WR, and with next years draft setting up to be one of the best WR drafts I think it’s a good bet that the Bills will do just that.

 

The team is progressing just the way you would realistically hope it would.   
 

We aren’t that far off.  The defense is elite, Allen is progressing and will learn from this game and the offense is one playmaker away from being nearly complete.

[Cripple Creek]

3 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

Did McD address at all after the game his decision not to challenge the PI non-call on Foster? That seemed like it was worth challenging. 

He wasn't asked about either.

[JinxedBill]

Seem like a wildcard team to me.  That’s a SB caliber team.  Have to execute in order to win the ballgame.

[Scott7975]

9 hours ago, wvbillsfan said:

If Beasley isn’t the first read against a cover 0 that’s a problem.  Beasley is averaging 3.2 ish yards of separation 

Brown is 2.4

 

Brown is running the deeper routes with a lower probability of catch. Beasley is usually within 10 yards of the LOS

 

If we aren’t drawing up plays to get Beasley the ball on blitz beaters or he isn’t the primary read shame on the coaching staff. 

Beasleys route was 2 yards and covered as a first read. It was the final play of the game with 8 yards to go minimum. Josh made the right decision. 

[Solomon Grundy]

41 minutes ago, Magox said:

They need one more quality WR, and with next years draft setting up to be one of the best WR drafts I think it’s a good bet that the Bills will do just that.

 

The team is progressing just the way you would realistically hope it would.   
 

We aren’t that far off.  The defense is elite, Allen is progressing and will learn from this game and the offense is one playmaker away from being nearly complete.

I'd say receiving weapon. That can come from the TE position (George Kittle), WR (Hopkins, Jones), RB (Kamara). Like u said, another playmaker. 

[stuvian]

our TEs flat out sucked

[london_bills]

I say draft a wr and a RB who is like a rb/receiver. Cut kroft, get a free agency tight end. 

[Bob in STL]

8 hours ago, GregPersons said:

 

What was bad about Brown's route running on the last play? Genuinely asking. That did not appear to be a WR error -- it was just excellent coverage. IMO the problem was that Brown wasn't getting those targets throughout... Peters is a great CB, and I'm sure the separation wasn't ideal, but Brown needed more opportunities. He got fewer targets than Dawson Knox. 

 

Separately — here's a question I'd like to know the answer to — why can't we try Duke Williams at TE??? What is going on there??? I wouldn't sit any of the WRs but I would deactivate Tyler Kroft (or better yet Lee Smith but I know McD loves his ST play). 

 

3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB — Brown, Beasley, Foster/McKenzie, Duke, Singletary

 

2 WR, 2 TE, 1 RB — Brown, Beasley, Duke, Knox/Smith, Singletary/Gore

 

 

Agree. Another poster said it was a bad route and that 8 of 10 times he runs a better route and we get a TD. 

 

It looks like the corner had great coverage, got inside and made the play.  

 

I wish the solution was as simple as play Duke Williams. The offense needs playmakers.  A star WR is a priority.  

[LJs Bodyguard]

Great, great game yesterday. Great defensive battle on both sides today. Your offense had the right idea against a blitz heavy defense, make them pay with some deep shots. They were there, but Josh just missed them, and I think that was ultimately the deciding factor in the end. The Patriots look just about done. Their offense isn't getting any better and their D is starting to show some cracks.

[GregPersons]

3 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Agree. Another poster said it was a bad route and that 8 of 10 times he runs a better route and we get a TD. 

 

It looks like the corner had great coverage, got inside and made the play.  

 

I wish the solution was as simple as play Duke Williams. The offense needs playmakers.  A star WR is a priority.  

 

A clutch, explosive playmaker at TE completely redefines this offense. I'm not saying that's definitely Duke Williams, but I am saying it doesn't look like it's gonna be Tyler Kroft or Lee Smith. Knox has potential -- he's great at catching the ball as long as it doesn't hit him in the numbers perfectly on target. 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Our best man beating WR smoked his guy on the last 4th down play. An accurate pass on time and Beasley scores.

 

Matchup football.

[ProcessYaDigg]

This loss hurts the worse so far.  Knowing that we could have complete control of the AFC by winning this game and falling short stings.  just like most games, it takes just one or two busted plays to make the difference.  We win if we didn't fumble the ball deep in our own territory or if Poyer didn't cover the wrong TE (mistakes happen).  Even with those mistakes, we had the chance to tie the game.  Smoke was shut down all day.  Why didn't we draw up a play for Beasley?  He finds a way to get open almost every play.  And throughout the game, Josh Allen had receivers open on deep passes.  He has to find a way to connect on at least one of those.  Easy TDs thrown away because of his deep ball accuracy.  We all know this is an issue with him and I do believe he'll work on it and get better, but that time is now.  And Dawson Knox, for goodness sake, stop dropping the damn ball!  We all loved the one arm grab and aggressive run, but we need efficient hands every time.  We had the chance to prove so many doubters wrong about our team. 

[Figster]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No one asked Allen about the ankle injury or asked McDermott about it in the pressers.  

 

 Josh Allen had a hard time limping off the field after the play was over. It is what it is,  you have to play through it. Why the media failed to inquire about it is beyond me.  Allen is normally going to make a few plays with his legs. ( 8 rushing TD's) Its no coincidence Allens ankle gets taped up and he fails to do so, atleast not in my humble opinion Happless. 

 

I'm not looking to make excuses, but the ankle injury hurt Josh Allens mobility and altered his style of play. Daboll in all likelihood adjusted the game plan accordingly minus designed runs. IMO

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Figster

[Elite Poster]

17 hours ago, MDH said:

D made the Ravens punt time and time again. I didn’t do anything with those opportunities. 
 

Ravens scores three times when they got the ball aeound the 50 yard line or better. Offense not moving the ball and the turnover killed them today.

 

That was the difference.

 

When they blitz, hit the open guy. Their QB hit Hurst for a 60 yard TD, our QB was scatter shot for 70% of the game and when he was hitting, drops. 

[CincyBillsFan]

19 minutes ago, Circlethewagon8404 said:

This loss hurts the worse so far.  Knowing that we could have complete control of the AFC by winning this game and falling short stings.  just like most games, it takes just one or two busted plays to make the difference.  We win if we didn't fumble the ball deep in our own territory or if Poyer didn't cover the wrong TE (mistakes happen).  Even with those mistakes, we had the chance to tie the game.  Smoke was shut down all day.  Why didn't we draw up a play for Beasley?  He finds a way to get open almost every play.  And throughout the game, Josh Allen had receivers open on deep passes.  He has to find a way to connect on at least one of those.  Easy TDs thrown away because of his deep ball accuracy.  We all know this is an issue with him and I do believe he'll work on it and get better, but that time is now.  And Dawson Knox, for goodness sake, stop dropping the damn ball!  We all loved the one arm grab and aggressive run, but we need efficient hands every time.  We had the chance to prove so many doubters wrong about our team. 

 

 

I disagree with this.  Allen missed one and maybe two deep throws in the first quarter but after that was accurate on the throws he made down the field:

 

*  His deep throw to Beasley was dropped. 

 

*  Singleterry misjudged Allen's well placed deep throw to him down the sideline.  if he runs through the ball rather then jump it's likely a catch.

 

*  The deep throw to Foster in which the Ravens DB committed PI was accurate.  If the DB doesn't interfere that's a 50 yard plus catch.  That PI wasn't called there is a joke.

 

Allen played poorly in the 1st half.  But what seems to be riding a bit under the radar is that he played very well in the 2nd half even though his O-line was a sieve.  Several dropped and misplayed passes and one egregious non-call on PI doomed the Bills.  had those plays been made we win.  And as I said earlier I know it's a case of coulda, woulda, shoulda but in honestly judging Allen you can't ignore those plays.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by CincyBillsFan

[PaattMaann]

Big drops by Bease and Knox altered the outcome of this game for sure (knox also got abused on the sake/fumble). Defense was lights out, contained the best offense in the league for much of the game. 

 

We were in this game, it stings, but they are the class of the NFL so it was an expected loss (gave us a 40% chance and seemed right). 

 

On to the Steelers, wrap ourselves up a playoff spot! 

[CincyBillsFan]

56 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

 

A clutch, explosive playmaker at TE completely redefines this offense. I'm not saying that's definitely Duke Williams, but I am saying it doesn't look like it's gonna be Tyler Kroft or Lee Smith. Knox has potential -- he's great at catching the ball as long as it doesn't hit him in the numbers perfectly on target. 

 

 

 

This probably is the Bills most critical need on offense.  Yesterday I believe TE's caught only one pass.  And it's not a case of Allen not targeting them as they were targeted 4 times.

 

Watch a Bills game, almost any Bills game, and the TE's don't get open.  Compare a Bills game to almost any other NFL game and what stands out to me in the passing game are:

 

*  Very little TE production. 

 

*  Dropped passes

 

*  The inability to effectively execute a screen pass.  Outside of the one Singleterry took for 49 yards against the Redskins have we run another successful screen?

 

*  The complete lack of ESPN level awesome pass catches.  When was the last time a Bills receiver caught a 50/50 ball or made a grab that had you yelling at the TV - "I can't believe he caught that".

 

All of these things matter in executing an NFL passing game.  I just don't see Allen as the problem here.

 

 

[ProcessYaDigg]

5 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I disagree with this.  Allen missed one and maybe two deep throws in the first quarter but after that was accurate on the throws he made down the field:

 

*  His deep throw to Beasley was dropped. 

 

*  Singleterry misjudged Allen's well placed deep throw to him down the sideline.  if he runs through the ball rather then jump it's likely a catch.

 

*  The deep throw to Foster in which the Ravens DB committed PI was accurate.  If the DB doesn't interfere that's a 50 yard plus catch.  That PI wasn't called there is a joke.

 

Allen played poorly in the 1st half.  But what seems to be riding a bit under the radar is that he played very well in the 2nd half even though his O-line was a sieve.  Several dropped and misplayed passes and one egregious non-call on PI doomed the Bills.  had those plays been made we win.  And as I said earlier I know it's a case of coulda, woulda, shoulda but in honestly judging Allen you can't ignore those plays.

 

 

valid points.  If i'm not mistaken, he did overthrow Smoke as well.  And yes, I can't believe we didn't challenge that non-PI call.  I was screaming at the TV.  I love our coach, but sometimes, he's too conservative.  and I understand that he doesn't want to waste his challenges because they could be useful later, but that's the time he needs to try.  If it's overturned, it's likely to result in points on the board.

[PaattMaann]

12 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

This probably is the Bills most critical need on offense.  Yesterday I believe TE's caught only one pass.  And it's not a case of Allen not targeting them as they were targeted 4 times.

 

Watch a Bills game, almost any Bills game, and the TE's don't get open.  Compare a Bills game to almost any other NFL game and what stands out to me in the passing game are:

 

*  Very little TE production. 

 

*  Dropped passes

 

*  The inability to effectively execute a screen pass.  Outside of the one Singleterry took for 49 yards against the Redskins have we run another successful screen?

 

*  The complete lack of ESPN level awesome pass catches.  When was the last time a Bills receiver caught a 50/50 ball or made a grab that had you yelling at the TV - "I can't believe he caught that".

 

All of these things matter in executing an NFL passing game.  I just don't see Allen as the problem here.

 

 

 

Literally yesterday lol. Knox made a helluva one armed catch while being interfered with. 

 

Agreed our TEs didnt play well yesterday outside of that one catch by Knox, otherwise he had a particularly bad day. 

[Nitro]

They took the hottest team in football to the limit.  Defense had one lapse but was outstanding. Made Jackson look ordinary.  Offense made too many mistakes.  Offensive line had a hard time in pass blocking.  Too many drops.  Allen has some glaring misses. Clean up those issues and this team can play the best and win