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Where do we find our next playmaker on offense? I'm not seeing a lot of options for the offseason.


mykidsdad

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10 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

 

The problem is that the draft is a crap-shoot and that's especially true for WRs.  Moreover, it can easily take 2 or 3 years to develop a NFL WR.  The Bills can't afford to wait that long to get a WR1 if they want to take advantage of Allen's rookie contract.

 

 

I think that AJ Green would be a good target for the Bills.   Because he's older and coming off injury, he should be affordable, and he's always been incredibly sure-handed.  This signing would also allow the Bills to draft and develop a young WR.

 

^^^

 

This is exactly my thought.  I wouldn't be opposed to pursuing Cooper but I think Green is a more realistic target.  I would prefer that the Bills not trade for a WR1 but for the right price, it would be better than gambling on the draft.  Fans who think that the Bills don't need one now, simply don't pay attention to the rest of the NFL. 

Odds are if we were to acquire Greens services he would most likely suffer another injury. He also doest have a body of work over the past 2 years to look at. If someone asked me 3 years ago to make a trade for him I would of been all about looking into it. 

6 minutes ago, BuffaloFan68 said:

Here’s my pick - 

23. Buffalo Bills (9-3) 
Tee Higgins, WR, Clemson
The Bills have helped the second-year development of Josh Allen with veteran wide receivers John Brown (deep threat outside) and Cole Beasley (reliable slot man inside). But they still could a dangerous, all-around playmaker who can be a force in the red zone. At 6-4, 215 pounds, Higgins has posted 40 receptions for 799 yards and 8 TDs in 11 games this season.

What if the BPA on our board was LB when we are up to bat?

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40 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

We could do something like that, but it’s a numbers game, how do we resign/ extend the players we should and have that much cash left over? As I was saying to resign/ extend the players we should, our cap space is almost gone.

 

Go Bills!!!

 

What good is having "cash left over" when the team only wins 6 to 9 games a year and makes the playoffs once every two decades?  That's been the Bills modus operandus since the end of the 1990s.  If you look around the NFL, it should dawn on you that the business model established by Ralph Wilson and Russ Brandon is a fail unless the team's primary aim is to maximize profits without regard to the product it puts on the field.

 

Other teams -- Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Chiefs, Colts, Packers, Vikings, Seahawks, and Eagles -- have consistently fielded playoff teams over the last twenty years despite the salary cap and free agency.  Numerous other teams have had cyclical periods of winning and losing.  The Bills have been notable for their ineptitude on the field, emphasized by the depressing fact that if the Bills win one more game this season, it will be their first double digit win in 20 years.  If Pegula/Beane/McDermott are truly different from their predecessors, then the Bills will figure out how to manage their roster within the salary cap to put a consistent winner on the field like most of the rest of the NFL not like the perennial bottom feeders that they've been hanging with for 2 decades.

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5 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

What good is having "cash left over" when the team only wins 6 to 9 games a year and makes the playoffs once every two decades?  That's been the Bills modus operandus since the end of the 1990s.  If you look around the NFL, it should dawn on you that the business model established by Ralph Wilson and Russ Brandon is a fail unless the team's primary aim is to maximize profits without regard to the product it puts on the field.

 

Other teams -- Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Chiefs, Colts, Packers, Vikings, Seahawks, and Eagles -- have consistently fielded playoff teams over the last twenty years despite the salary cap and free agency.  Numerous other teams have had cyclical periods of winning and losing.  The Bills have been notable for their ineptitude on the field, emphasized by the depressing fact that if the Bills win one more game this season, it will be their first double digit win in 20 years.  If Pegula/Beane/McDermott are truly different from their predecessors, then the Bills will figure out how to manage their roster within the salary cap to put a consistent winner on the field like most of the rest of the NFL not like the perennial bottom feeders that they've been hanging with for 2 decades.

First, you just conveniently skip over how having a franchise QB impacts these decisions.  That is fantastic work on your part. 

 

More importantly, you write like this front office didn't walk into the situation with clear intentions and vision, and then effectively execute that vision. They are looking at two playoff appearances in their first three years. They have their franchise QB, and a young core of players that they can ride for the next ten years. It makes sense under those circumstances to have money available to afford some flexibility. 

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53 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

It’s all about value. A top DE makes Shaq and Murphy expendable. If I had to bet I’d put money on Beane going after a value veteran WR to pair with Brown and a rookie WR, pay for a DE and let Shaq and/ Murphy walk, or sign a pass rushing LBer to replace Alexander when he retires. I have faith. 

I know they will figure out how to do what needs be done, I suspect right off Murphy and Croft are going to be released, Jordan Phillips will cost 12, 13 million a year to keep, they will likely try to keep Shaq, and use some of Murphy’s money toward him. It will be entertaining to watch the maneuvering.

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27 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Odds are if we were to acquire Greens services he would most likely suffer another injury. He also doest have a body of work over the past 2 years to look at. If someone asked me 3 years ago to make a trade for him I would of been all about looking into it. 

 

Beane gambled on a C with multiple concussions.  AFAIK, Green's injuries haven't been related. 

 

27 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

What if the BPA on our board was LB when we are up to bat?

 

This is exactly why I never advocate a specific position in a specific round: you never know who's going to be available.  The classic example of this is the Packers finding QB Aaron Rodgers still on the board at their turn at #24 in 2005 when they had the great Brett Favre.   A draft position in the 20s is a great spot to pick up a great interior OLer, a LB or DB ... or if the cards fall right, a WR1 or DE.

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12 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

What good is having "cash left over" when the team only wins 6 to 9 games a year and makes the playoffs once every two decades?  That's been the Bills modus operandus since the end of the 1990s.  If you look around the NFL, it should dawn on you that the business model established by Ralph Wilson and Russ Brandon is a fail unless the team's primary aim is to maximize profits without regard to the product it puts on the field.

 

Other teams -- Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Chiefs, Colts, Packers, Vikings, Seahawks, and Eagles -- have consistently fielded playoff teams over the last twenty years despite the salary cap and free agency.  Numerous other teams have had cyclical periods of winning and losing.  The Bills have been notable for their ineptitude on the field, emphasized by the depressing fact that if the Bills win one more game this season, it will be their first double digit win in 20 years.  If Pegula/Beane/McDermott are truly different from their predecessors, then the Bills will figure out how to manage their roster within the salary cap to put a consistent winner on the field like most of the rest of the NFL not like the perennial bottom feeders that they've been hanging with for 2 decades.

The Bills have already changed from being a crappy team, and will continue that change if they don’t piss away every dime. Any smart team keeps some in reserve. 

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1 minute ago, Don Otreply said:

The Bills have already changed from being a crappy team, and will continue that change if they don’t piss away every dime. Any smart team keeps some in reserve. 

 

Maybe they are, but then again ...

 

In 2017, the Jags came out of nowhere (3-13 in 2016) to win the AFC South with a 10-6 record and eventually go to the AFC Conference Championship where they lost to eventual SB Champion Patriots.  They went 5-11 in 2018 and are currently 4-8.

 

In 2008, the Dolphins went 11-5 and won the AFCE after going 1-15 the previous year.  They didn't have another winning season until 2016 when they went 10-6 and made the WC after which they sank back to their losing ways.  This year they've got 3 wins.

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4 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Maybe they are, but then again ...

 

In 2017, the Jags came out of nowhere (3-13 in 2016) to win the AFC South with a 10-6 record and eventually go to the AFC Conference Championship where they lost to eventual SB Champion Patriots.  They went 5-11 in 2018 and are currently 4-8.

 

In 2008, the Dolphins went 11-5 and won the AFCE after going 1-15 the previous year.  They didn't have another winning season until 2016 when they went 10-6 and made the WC after which they sank back to their losing ways.  This year they've got 3 wins.

Frankly I don’t give a rats azs about those teams, they had there own financial and management issues that kept them from continued success.  BB & SM are trying to not go down the road of the flash in the pan type teams, I think that is pretty obvious by the way they conduct team business. They are in it for the long haul as it were. 

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I think AJ Green would be a solid add for us, on a reasonable deal. No way he'll command what he'd get based on his first 7 seasons, after missing the last year & a half. Ih healthy, he still has another 3 seasons as a WR1.  We still draft a WR in round 1 or 2, and  AJ fills that gap while the young WR develops.This is exactly the type of move we need.

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8 hours ago, mykidsdad said:

I hope we do something GREAT this year, but I still have this nagging feeling we’re a playmaker or two away from being a true contender. I think we need to sign as many of our productive players as we can, including Philips. We also need to draft a corner and build some depth, BUT to me I feel our biggest jump can take place if we add a dynamic number one type wide receiver. I’m trying to think about who that can be, and I’m stumped. It looks like there may NOT be a lot of great options this offseason. I’m just not seeing a lot of eye popping talent. 

 

These are the best WR options that may come available: 

 

NFL FREE AGENTS

Amari Cooper (Dallas may lock him up)

Robby Anderson (not a true number one)

AJ Green (too old?)

 

DRAFT

Jerry Jeudy, ALABAMA (1st rounder, probably gone before we pick)

Jalen Reagor, TCU (probably a good chance of grabbing in the 1st)

Antonio Gandy-Golden, LU (2nd or 3rd rounder)

 

If we are serious about adding a playmaker we may need to think long and hard about trading for someone. I’m convinced we are a playmaker away from having a top 10 Offense/Defense combination. Who might come available? Fuller in Houston maybe? Diggs or Thielen in Minnesota? And would we want to spend the capitol on a deal? Are there any players or scenarios I’m missing?, ether by way of draft or FA or even trade? I feel like we’re coming into all of this cap space without a lot of good options to spend it on.

 

You can find top notch WR in all different rounds. Antonio Brown was a 5th rounder, Stefon Diggs was a 5th round pick, Adam Theilen was an undrafted rookie FA, they can be found all over and Beane is pretty darn good at drafting so there should be no need to go and trade assets when we should be able to find our guy somewhere in the draft imo. 

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Didn't we have this conversation LAST offseason?  Where are we going to get O linemen?  Any O playmakers?  No one wants to play in Buffalo!  The Coach claps too much!  The sky is falling!  

 

It's worked out OK so far, so maybe we let this off-season play out a bit (you know, once we get there)...

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5 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

We have some coin wrapped up in Beasley, Brown, and Kroft. Drafting one may be a better option. Cooper is a damn good receiver but the price tag may be too high.

You are probably right, but it is fun to dream.  Copper would look great in Bill's blue scoring td catches from Josh.

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Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I think they will go Edge. There is no more overrated high price player than the WR1.  

Von Miller (doubful, but if he does back up the Brinks truck), Shaq Barrett & Cooper are the 3 I go hard after. I may consider AJ green on a 3yr deal that lets me out after year 2 (gives us a way to groom a rookie WR for a season or 2). What makes WR a little difficult is that we are expecting the WRs to make coverage reads and adjust their routes - which could take a rookie WR a season or 2 to learn and become in-sync with the rest of the WRs, & Allen. 

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5 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

I want zero part of this. Wait another year for Foster?? Waiting for Zay’s lightbulb was bad enough. 

 
don’t disagree with your question .... my point is, I’m not sure there’s a FA worth throwing big money at? ..... maybe Cooper, if not ridiculous, but no one else that I see 

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I can't see McD wanting to pay big free agent $$ to bring in another WR, or anyone for that matter. It's just not how these guys do things. It sends the wrong message. Besides, our current group of skill guys are pretty good -- underrated even, especially on this board. Think we make moves around the edges instead, and replenish via the draft.   

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The Bills don’t need AJ Green any longer. DE and WR would seem to be our two biggest needs going into next season. Not sure you need to do anything regarding the OL other than additional depth. Need a power RB and LB depth in the later rounds. I would be surprised if they don’t focus on keeping our own players (Shaq and Phillips) this offseason. Excited to see us winning while BUILDING a contender. All Bills fans should be pumped about the present and the future!

 

Now go win the division this year! 

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Give me Roby Anderson on a contract similar to what Tyrell Williams got. 
Then hammer the draft with picks in the front four. We need dts and defensive ends next year 

Murphy should be cut

Shaq a free agent 

Jerry getting up there in age

Phillips a free agent. 

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1 hour ago, Jerboski said:

Lot of receivers in this draft you didnt mention 

 

Lamb 

Ruggs 

Kid from Minnesota 

Claypool from ND 

Colin johnson from texas 

 

Just to name a few more 

 

Yeah, I could see a Julio esque Trade going down for CeeDee Lamb. He reminds me of a faster DeAndre Hopkins  

 

the first 50 seconds of this video he shows you everything you want to see in a true #1. His ball skills are transcendent, he is going to catch everything thrown to him.

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, TFBillsfan said:

The Bills don’t need AJ Green any longer. DE and WR would seem to be our two biggest needs going into next season. Not sure you need to do anything regarding the OL other than additional depth. Need a power RB and LB depth in the later rounds. I would be surprised if they don’t focus on keeping our own players (Shaq and Phillips) this offseason. Excited to see us winning while BUILDING a contender. All Bills fans should be pumped about the present and the future!

 

Now go win the division this year! 

 

WR is interesting, as I let the new Cover1 article marinate a bit, the video a few weeks ago with Allen & JK, etc. one reason why I think Zay was shipped out was that he was unable to make the coverage reads and adjust his route and get on the same page as Josh. The WR that we draft (we will draft at least one), will need to not only have speed and other athletic measurables (and some height), he will need to be able to read a D, adjust and know all of his route trees. It may very well be advantageous for us to bring in Green on a 3-ish year deal and a way out in the back-end. It allows us time to groom and develop the WR so when he is ready to hit the field full-time and the learning curve will be a lot shorter and we won't have to depend on him too much while he develops. 

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40 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

WR is interesting, as I let the new Cover1 article marinate a bit, the video a few weeks ago with Allen & JK, etc. one reason why I think Zay was shipped out was that he was unable to make the coverage reads and adjust his route and get on the same page as Josh. The WR that we draft (we will draft at least one), will need to not only have speed and other athletic measurables (and some height), he will need to be able to read a D, adjust and know all of his route trees. It may very well be advantageous for us to bring in Green on a 3-ish year deal and a way out in the back-end. It allows us time to groom and develop the WR so when he is ready to hit the field full-time and the learning curve will be a lot shorter and we won't have to depend on him too much while he develops. 

I like this thought Reed. This class is deep in WRs. My thought on a playmaker the Bills could use is Jonathan Taylor. Him and Motor could be the Thurman/Kenny Davis combo. Green, Smoke, Beasley, Knox and don't sleep Sweeney. Draft a receiver like a Mims later to learn from Smoke/Green. Taylor would be an immediate impact. 

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I think that DE is our top priority, WR is # 2.

 

It helps that this upcoming draft is loaded talent at WR. The Bills do not have to use a first round pick on one.

 

The Bills have another great opportunity this off season to improve the roster even more. Although I believe they will be re-signing most of their own players instead of adding more newcomers.

 

But, we are still a ways from that, so I'm not as concerned about it. Although it is fun to speculate.

 

This team is going in the right direction.

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4 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said:

It’s all about value. A top DE makes Shaq and Murphy expendable. If I had to bet I’d put money on Beane going after a value veteran WR to pair with Brown and a rookie WR, pay for a DE and let Shaq and/ Murphy walk, or sign a pass rushing LBer to replace Alexander when he retires. I have faith. 

 

Who are we cutting in your scenario?  Foster or McKenzie?

 

Brown

Beasley

Draft Pick/FA

Foster

McKenzie

Roberts

 

I like the looks of that WR unit.  I would just bring in one... FA or Draft Pick.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Who are we cutting in your scenario?  Foster or McKenzie?

 

Brown

Beasley

Draft Pick/FA

Foster

McKenzie

Roberts

 

I like the looks of that WR unit.  I would just bring in one... FA or Draft Pick.

 

 

As the roster stands Foster and McKenzie can be improved upon and Roberts gets the return spot. Kroft, Lee, and Sweeney aren’t all needed. Plus the bottom of the roster is always churning.... Yeldon, Perry, etc can all be replaced. You upgrade when and where you can. 

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4 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

As the roster stands Foster and McKenzie can be improved upon and Roberts gets the return spot. Kroft, Lee, and Sweeney aren’t all needed. Plus the bottom of the roster is always churning.... Yeldon, Perry, etc can all be replaced. You upgrade when and where you can. 

 

I just wouldn't.  At least not Foster.  He's way too electrifying in his potential for me to move on from him, especially in a scenario next year where he would be the 4th WR.

 

McKenzie I could be swayed either way, although as a gadget player/5th WR, he'd be in the position he should be on this team.

 

I just can't see us investing in more than one WR this offseason with either FA $$$ or a high draft pick.  We run 11 personnel most of the time.  It's not like we're going 4/5 wide with all WR's.   

 

One WR is needed.  Two is overkill, IMO.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I just wouldn't.  At least not Foster.  He's way too electrifying in his potential for me to move on from him, especially in a scenario next year where he would be the 4th WR.

 

McKenzie I could be swayed either way, although as a gadget player/5th WR, he'd be in the position he should be on this team.

 

I just can't see us investing in more than one WR this offseason with either FA $$$ or a high draft pick.  We run 11 personnel most of the time.  It's not like we're going 4/5 wide with all WR's.   

 

One WR is needed.  Two is overkill, IMO.

 

 

It depends on how this offense evolves. If they add a guy like Shenault then McKenzie is completely expendable as is the extra RB. Out of McK and Foster I’d keep Foster as well. Not only can he be electric, but he has value on special teams as a gunner. If this offense goes more TE centric than I can see keeping 4 TEs, but there are currently 5 TEs and a FB on the payroll. I think one can be dropped for more speed on the field since Allen seems to prefer intermediate passes. We will see how it pans out, but if they continue going with 11 personnel instead of 12 personnel they might drop a TE next season.  

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14 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

I personally think Shenault from Colorado is tailor made for a Daboll offense. Big at 6’ 2” and 220, but moves like a RB. Lined up for Colorado at outside receiver, in the slot, running back and even as a wildcat QB. 

 

He excels in the intermediate areas, playing like a running back if he gets the ball in space. This is an area where Josh’s game has been steadily improving as well, so I could see those two things aligning. 

 

I think the answer lies in the draft. You list three draft eligible receivers. Most analysts see this as a big year for receivers, with up to 6 having 1st round round ability and upwards of 12-15 going in the first two rounds.  

 

I agree. Shenault is probably the greatest playmaker in college football - period. And as you point out he's incredibly versatile. While true that he has missed playing time with nagging injuries it's nothing that puts his career in doubt and it explains why you may be able to land him in the second round when he is top ten material. As a second round pick he would be a colossal steal. Some observers actually speculate third but that's not happening IMO. 

Beane sometimes has a tendency for drafting the most spectacular athlete with the highest ceiling. Shenault fills the bill. Unlike Metcalf there is plenty of tape to back him up.

Edited by starrymessenger
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1 hour ago, buffalover4life said:

 

Yeah, I could see a Julio esque Trade going down for CeeDee Lamb. He reminds me of a faster DeAndre Hopkins  

 

the first 50 seconds of this video he shows you everything you want to see in a true #1. His ball skills are transcendent, he is going to catch everything thrown to him.

 

 

 


We’re at the point that we need to pay a lot of our young talent. Sacrificing some picks for a bonafide young superstar like Ceedee Lamb might be worth it 

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2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Don't shoot the messenger here - if there is really going to be a historic influx of WR talent next year, we'll also need to draft another CB or two...

Should always draft a CB/DB

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3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Don't shoot the messenger here - if there is really going to be a historic influx of WR talent next year, we'll also need to draft another CB or two...

 

One name at CB that I'm sneaky keeping an eye out for is Bryce Hall, from Virginia. 

 

He was going to be a top 2 or 3 CB this year, but he broke his ankle early this season. If he drops into the second or third round, he's the kind of player McD might not be able to say no to as a value pick.

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