Pete Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I love Josh, and I'm happy he is the Bills QB. That being said, me, and several others lobbied to hold onto all our draft picks, trade back if anything, and stand pat and draft Lamar Jackson. We got ridiculed by many. Alphadawg created a whole thread, The Case For Lamar Jackson. Let the record state on 3/28/18- I am extremely against trading up into top 6 for QB- and massively overpaying. The opportunity cost of squandering picks 12, 22, 53, 56, 65, 96 and a 2019 1st(which will be a high draft pick if we sacrifice drafts for a rookie QB). Impact players that the Bills could miss out on(and whom would instantly upgrade Bills starters) include: Roquan Smith, Derwin James, Vita Vea, Tremaine Edmunds, Isiah Wynn, Will Hernandez, Billy Price, Frank Ragnow, Denzel Ward, Lamar Jackson, Ronald Jones, Guice, Vander Esch, James Washington, Cortland Sutton, Mike Hughes, Nick Chubb, Marcus Davenport, Mata’afa, Rashan Evans, Taven Bryan, Harrison Phillips, Josh Jackson, Christian Kirk, Hayden Hurst, Payne, Equanemius, Baker, Sam Hubbard, Ballage, etc. Imagine if we stayed pat(or even better traded back)- the depth we would have on this team. Moral of the story- don't trade up, keep your picks,stockpile draft picks, let the board come to you We could have 7 of the above and all our draft picks. Or we can risk it all on a QB ad give all that up. Please revisit and either give me **** or give me props. Peace out 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 No. It’s been said in a few places that the Cards wanted Allen. That’s why we traded up. Now, will be be worthy of such a pick? Check back in January of next year 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Let’s revisit this in 5 years. The style of quarterback Lamar plays has shown it doesn’t have a long shelf life. 17 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 Just now, Virgil said: No. It’s been said in a few places that the Cards wanted Allen. That’s why we traded up. Now, will be be worthy of such a pick? Check back in January of next year so let them. We stand pat, and draft Lamar Jackson then. Just now, atlbillsfan1975 said: Let’s revisit this in 5 years. The style of quarterback Lamar plays has shown it doesn’t have a long shelf life. fair enough. Josh is an athletic freak himself. He might very well end up being the right move 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Just now, Pete said: so let them. We stand pat, and draft Lamar Jackson then. He went last for a reason. Stop with the hindsight. It was one of the most QB needy drafts in recent memory and everyone passed on him. Also, Lamar isn’t who he is right now if he’s not playing in that Roman offense. Right place, right time. 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Me thinks the 2018 Draft is over. Time to move on. Love the one you're with. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 Just now, Virgil said: He went last for a reason. Stop with the hindsight. It was one of the most QB needy drafts in recent memory and everyone passed on him. Also, Lamar isn’t who he is right now if he’s not playing in that Roman offense. Right place, right time. 3/28/18 is not hindsight brother 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Pete said: so let them. We stand pat, and draft Lamar Jackson then. fair enough. Josh is an athletic freak himself. He might very well end up being the right move No one should ever trade up, unless you going to get a blue chip franchise QB at the top of the draft. That's my rule at least. McBeane love to trade up all the time and have been burned by it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Nanker said: Me thinks the 2018 Draft is over. Time to move on. Love the one you're with. or learn from past mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Sure... like passing on Brady, Gronk, etc., etc., etc. The Draft is a crap shoot every year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 You move up for a franchise quarterback if you think you need to. You better be right though (see Trubisky, Leaf, RG3, etc.). Although not great of late, I don't think the Eagles regret trading up for Wentz. I don't think the Chiefs regret trading up for Mahomes. Donahoe by all reports was trying to find a trading partner to move up for Roethlisberger. I'm more hesitant with other positions but if you think that guy will help your football team immensely and he won't last unless you make a move then go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Pete said: I love Josh, and I'm happy he is the Bills QB. That being said, me, and several others lobbied to hold onto all our draft picks, trade back if anything, and stand pat and draft Lamar Jackson. We got ridiculed by many. Alphadawg created a whole thread, The Case For Lamar Jackson. Let the record state on 3/28/18- I am extremely against trading up into top 6 for QB- and massively overpaying. The opportunity cost of squandering picks 12, 22, 53, 56, 65, 96 and a 2019 1st(which will be a high draft pick if we sacrifice drafts for a rookie QB). Impact players that the Bills could miss out on(and whom would instantly upgrade Bills starters) include: Roquan Smith, Derwin James, Vita Vea, Tremaine Edmunds, Isiah Wynn, Will Hernandez, Billy Price, Frank Ragnow, Denzel Ward, Lamar Jackson, Ronald Jones, Guice, Vander Esch, James Washington, Cortland Sutton, Mike Hughes, Nick Chubb, Marcus Davenport, Mata’afa, Rashan Evans, Taven Bryan, Harrison Phillips, Josh Jackson, Christian Kirk, Hayden Hurst, Payne, Equanemius, Baker, Sam Hubbard, Ballage, etc. Imagine if we stayed pat(or even better traded back)- the depth we would have on this team. Moral of the story- don't trade up, keep your picks,stockpile draft picks, let the board come to you We could have 7 of the above and all our draft picks. Or we can risk it all on a QB ad give all that up. Please revisit and either give me **** or give me props. Peace out Wait, what? We picked 7, 16, 96 in the first three rounds of 2018 and at 9 in the first in 2019. So we essentially traded 12, 22, 53, 56, and 65 for 7 and 16 (we also got 154 [Siran Neal] from BAL but we're just talking first three rounds I guess). So we have Allen, Edmunds, Harrison Phillips. Are there a couple of guys in that list above I'd love to add? Sure, and we might have gotten a couple of them had we stood pat and kept the extra three picks (maybe even still getting Edmunds and Phillips!). There's also a few that look like busts at the moment. I don't think the sky fell quite like Alphadawg thought it might by trading up. Edited November 19, 2019 by LeviF91 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 13 minutes ago, Virgil said: He went last for a reason. Stop with the hindsight. It was one of the most QB needy drafts in recent memory and everyone passed on him. Also, Lamar isn’t who he is right now if he’s not playing in that Roman offense. Right place, right time. the last part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) We suck. I want Russ Brandon back. I wish I could revisit the 2002 dating scene. I should have married Amanda instead of Amy. Edited November 19, 2019 by r00tabaga 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, Pete said: or learn from past mistakes Who’s going to be doing all this learning ? Fans don’t make the picks. If too many wrong moves are made, those who make them will pay with their jobs. It’s still too early to say if that will happen here. I have to concur with the thinking that L Jackson is running an unorthodox, creative scheme. The Bills don’t have those coaches, and would probably want him to be a pocket passer. Most NFL types don’t think outside the box in that way, as seen during the combine prior to that draft. Many though of Jackson as a WR at the NFL level. Bills fans will know a lot more at the end of the 2020 season, and it may be that Beane and co are on the hot seat by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagoon Blues Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 19 minutes ago, Pete said: 3/28/18 is not hindsight brother Yes...Yes it is. "understanding of a situation or event only after it has happened or developed" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 This love obsession over a 1 dimensional QB is starting to become the stuff of legend. Time has proven running QBs get figured out, injured and fade out. Why do you think we're encouraging Josh to be an "actual" QB? Yes the Ravens scheme is flashy and exciting, and dare I say sexy. But we've all read this story before so why is the ending different in this case? He's a brilliant athlete with lightning speed and elusiveness. But he's an average passer that will be asked to do more once the whole 3 TE set thing gets figured out, and it will. And that's if he doesn't suffer an injury or a series of concussions first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Aren't you special? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleTheWagons99 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, r00tabaga said: We suck. I want Russ Brandon back. I wish I could revisit the 2002 dating scene. I should have married Amanda instead of Amy. For you sake, I hope Amy does not visit this site. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, CircleTheWagons99 said: For you sake, I hope Amy does not visit this site. Giants fan...... I'm good 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 32 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: Let’s revisit this in 5 years. The style of quarterback Lamar plays has shown it doesn’t have a long shelf life. I agree, I always thought he would be successful for 4 year then either get injured or lose a step. Now if he wins a Super Bowl this year he is definitely a worthy pick. He does have a knack for avoiding hits so maybe he will be the next Vick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 31 minutes ago, Pete said: 3/28/18 is not hindsight brother Can we see some of your other strong opinions that panned out, Pete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) Hindsight is how you learn from mistakes. please stop w the oversimplified dumb statements. I’m completely against trading up at any point. This doesn’t mean I don’t support or like Allen. Edited November 19, 2019 by nedboy7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac2001 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 How about the 2017 draft let’s revisit that as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 minute ago, mikemac2001 said: How about the 2017 draft let’s revisit that as well Hell, let's throw it back to Nineteen Hundred and Eighty Nine man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17islongenough Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 If you get a franchise QB it does not matter what you paid. No one has any idea how the draft would have fallen if you did not trade up. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Is the 2000 draft out of the statute of limitations???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I guess the "We could've had Watson or Mahomes!" takes weren't enough. Now we're doomed to "We could've had Lamar Jackson!" takes, too. Yippy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Just now, Logic said: I guess the "We could've had Watson or Mahomes!" takes weren't enough. Now we're doomed to "We could've had Lamar Jackson!" takes, too. Yippy. Constant. No one loves looking backward more than Bills fans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 39 minutes ago, Pete said: 3/28/18 is not hindsight brother In draft time, it is. 3 years. That's the gold standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Virgil said: He went last for a reason. Stop with the hindsight. It was one of the most QB needy drafts in recent memory and everyone passed on him. Also, Lamar isn’t who he is right now if he’s not playing in that Roman offense. Right place, right time. I hate this argument. If a guy can play he could play, stop it with the BS of oh he is in the perfect environment that is why he is good crap. Same thing with mahomes. Mahomes would be successful on any team in the league because he is super talented. Edited November 19, 2019 by Gordio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Gordio said: I hate this argument. If a guy can play he could play, stop it with the BS of oh he is in the perfect environment that is why he is good crap. Same thing with mahomes. Mahomes would be successful on any team in the league because he is super talented. And your evidence for this is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgg716 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Hindsight always assumes identical outcomes without considering all the factors. Lamar would not be doing here, what he is in Baltimore, period 4 minutes ago, Gordio said: I hate this argument. If a guy can play he could play, stop it with the BS of oh he is in the perfect environment that is why he is good crap. Same thing with mahomes. Mahomes would be successful on any team in the league because he is super talented. Drew Brees begs to differ with you, Alex Smith as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 50 minutes ago, Pete said: out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 minute ago, cgg716 said: Hindsight always assumes identical outcomes without considering all the factors. Lamar would not be doing here, what he is in Baltimore, period Drew Brees begs to differ with you, Alex Smith as well Jared Goff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Gordio said: I hate this argument. If a guy can play he could play, stop it with the BS of oh he is in the perfect environment that is why he is good crap. Same thing with mahomes. Mahomes would be successful on any team in the league because he is super talented. No one is arguing Mahomes wouldn't be good with different teams around him what people argue is that he wouldn't have the gaudy stats that he's gotten playing on a team with so many weapons. The argument about Lamar is different his offense is unique and seems very tailored to his unique playstyle. So I don't think it's ridiculous to say he wouldn't be doing near as well in a different system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I do love Vander Esch but man Edmonds make it a hard call... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) Here's how I think we need to look at it. If Josh becomes a 10-15 year franchise guy then it was worth it. If not, then no. Lamar is going to give you 5-8 years playing this style. That's why he fell. If your argument is no one saw this coming from him then I call BS. He was electric in college and won the Heisman. It seemed pretty clear at the time you could build your offense around his skill set and win right away in this modern NFL where you can't hit people. We picked Josh for the long-term upside. The issue is most guys who don't show glimpses of being a franchise QB within the first two years rarely ever get there. Hopefully Josh can buck the trend. Edited November 19, 2019 by VW82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) 55 minutes ago, LeviF91 said: I don't think the sky fell quite like Alphadawg thought it might by trading up. Huh? Where did I say the sky was falling? I was never against trading up, i was against trading a bounty into the top 5. I liked Lamar and was fine staying put and taking him. But by the time draft night came around, Allen was #2 on my board behind Baker and was quite fine with the trade up we did do. I don’t feel like it was too much to get the guy they coveted. Top 5 would have cost both our firsts (so no Edmunds) and possible our next years 1 or 2. Did not want to pay that much. I did not want to give up what it would take to get inside top 5 though, nor did we need to. I said all the way leading up to draft that neither Giants or Broncos would take a QB and that only 2 QBs would go top 5 and we didn’t need to trade that high. Edited November 19, 2019 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC25 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 58 minutes ago, Pete said: 3/28/18 is not hindsight brother This is hindsight so do you give kc crap cause they traded up for mahomes. Cause they could of stayed pat and drafted defensive players 27 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: Hindsight is how you learn from mistakes. please stop w the oversimplified dumb statements. I’m completely against trading up at any point. This doesn’t mean I don’t support or like Allen. No not true at all. The draft is a gamble with hits and misses at every turn. Never know what you get till you get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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