Simple poll. Is Josh Allen improving as a passer?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Ask Stafford how many playoff wins his stats lines have gotten the Lions for example?

 

Raw passing numbers don't tell a whole story anyway.  He put up that stat line.. in a losing effort... against the consensus worst team in football and worst defense in football. 

 

In 13 extra attempts Darnold threw for 1 more pick, 1 fewer TD and about 60 more yards against Miami... 

[Pokebball]

4 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

This is such a strange statement.  Buffalo scored more points.  Had a better 3rd down conversion rate, were better in the Red zone, better yards per completion, no picks, got sacked less... They ran it 39 times because they were winning basically the entire game.  

and the winds were a blowin

[Ramza86]

Just now, Figster said:

Over 94%

 

Now ask yourself, do you think Daboll might deserve a little credit?

 

I think him and Dorsey deserve a lot of credit. He had a weakness last year and it was addressed this year.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

and the winds were a blowin

 

Yeah - Wentz had 170 yards passing the week before and maybe 2 completions that i remember that were down the field.  They had a few good short passes that got lots of yardage.  Stat line doesn't show that like all of his scrambles were first downs either. 

[billsfan89]

Josh has improved tremendously in the short and intermediate range, he has regressed somewhat with his downfield passing. I think weighing both elements of his game I would say he has improved overall. I am very curious to see how he improves or develops the rest of the way. Through 8 games he has already shown significant growth. 

[H2o]

50 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Yes has improved alot. He has tremendous upside still and will likely continue to move towards that because of his makeup, barring serious injury of course.

 

I want to know who the bums are that said no? I could probably guess. I mean there is still the 300 yard crew around, you know the ones who evaluate QB play based on total yards. There is actually a guy on Bills Wire who thought Sam Darnold had a better game than Josh on Sunday. LMFAO. One guy had a111.6 rating another 85.4, guess who?

 

Nick Wojton-"It’s hard to say Allen had a bad game. He did what was asked. But his game still wasn’t good. A push seems right.

Allen finished the game 14-for-20 passing for 160 yards and a touchdown. He also had eight carries for 12 yards and a rushing score. For comparison sake, the Jets lost to the Dolphins but quarterback Sam Darnold was still 27-for-39 passing for 260 yards with a touchdown and interception. OK, he didn’t win, but that stat line is much better."

 

 

The guy obviously doesn't take into account that Darnold got 8 of his completions, 80+ of those yards, and his only TD on a meaningless, late 4th qtr drive where the Dolphins had the game in hand. People are stupid. 

 

About Josh though? Definitely shown improvement and progressively doing so. The answer is yes and yes with it being in tandem. 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Yes and no.  At times he looks like it's clicking in and at other times he reverts back to doing things he should have nailed by now, such as not throwing the ball away and not sliding.  What I'd also like to see is more play action and screens (but that may be on play calling, not him).

Edited November 6, 2019 by Formerly Allan in MD

[TwistofFate]

He's improved in some areas and regressed in some areas. 

 

Its a push IMO. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

1 hour ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

 

Is it too late to change this to a PUBLIC poll?

 

I think that can be done. U know we are experts on the polls

[Scott7975]

Simple answer yes. It might now be as much as people wanted at this point but he is indeed improving. 

[Billl]

His passing yards have decreased in every single game this year versus his previous game with only one exception (and that exception is because his numbers against the Patriots were exceptionally low).  Allen is an unusual case in that the eye test tells you that he should be good, but the numbers never support that.  This was the case for him in Junior college, at Wyoming, and still is in Buffalo.  He's like the anti Kirk Cousins.

[Billsfansinceday1]

He has improved in most areas, especially on shorter routes and in the middle of the field.  His long ball accuracy has gone into a black hole.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

7 TDs & only 1 INT, in his last 4 games. 6 of the 7 TDs were in the redzone & 5 were to WRs(All weak points last year). Yeah he's improving. 

 

For comparison...Some are treating Lamar like he's God, he runs a lot I get it, but in his last 4 games he had games of 161 yards, 236 yards, 143 yards & 163 yards with only 2 TDs & 3 INTs. Matter of fact take the Miami game out and he has only 7 TDs & 5 INTs in his other 7 games. 

[Ta111]

2 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

7 TDs & only 1 INT, in his last 4 games. 6 of the 7 TDs were in the redzone & 5 were to WRs(All weak points last year). Yeah he's improving. 

 

For comparison...Some are treating Lamar like he's God, he runs a lot I get it, but in his last 4 games he had games of 161 yards, 236 yards, 143 yards & 163 yards with only 2 TDs & 3 INTs. Matter of fact take the Miami game out and he has only 7 TDs & 5 INTs in his other 7 games. 

Stop confusing people with facts. Lol.

[JMF2006]

54 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Was Nick Wojton dropped on his head as an infant? That is perhaps the most idiotic point ever made about QB stats. 

 

Did he actually watch the Miami/Jets game? Darnold couldn't even remember his own snap count on his own 1 yard line  

 

That redzone pass/int with the ball sideways in his hand was another beauty.  

[Bring it]

Yes and I think he is only scratching the surface of his potential! So glad we have him!!

17 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

7 TDs & only 1 INT, in his last 4 games. 6 of the 7 TDs were in the redzone & 5 were to WRs(All weak points last year). Yeah he's improving. 

 

For comparison...Some are treating Lamar like he's God, he runs a lot I get it, but in his last 4 games he had games of 161 yards, 236 yards, 143 yards & 163 yards with only 2 TDs & 3 INTs. Matter of fact take the Miami game out and he has only 7 TDs & 5 INTs in his other 7 games. 

Thanks for that info! Not always as things seem!

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, JMF2006 said:

 

Did he actually watch the Miami/Jets game? Darnold couldn't even remember his own snap count on his own 1 yard line  

 

That redzone pass/int with the ball sideways in his hand was another beauty.  

No way he watched either the Jets or Bills games. He looked at the stat lines after the games and deduced his nonsense. 

[transplantbillsfan]

Obviously.

 

5% of the people voting in this thread are just idiots.

[JMF2006]

95 % real fans 

 

5% stat fans  

[Figster]

28 minutes ago, Billl said:

His passing yards have decreased in every single game this year versus his previous game with only one exception (and that exception is because his numbers against the Patriots were exceptionally low).  Allen is an unusual case in that the eye test tells you that he should be good, but the numbers never support that.  This was the case for him in Junior college, at Wyoming, and still is in Buffalo.  He's like the anti Kirk Cousins.

I wouldn't confuse decreased pass attempts because of the proper game planning dictated by weather conditions and the opposition with a decline in Josh Allens development. The Buffalo Bills are built to weather the storm.

[JMF2006]

1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Obviously.

 

5% of the people voting in this thread are just idiots.

 

I tried to be more diplomatic  

[teef]

why don't people who don't feel josh is improving explain why?  it's a legit opinion, so why not put it out there?

[JMF2006]

Just now, Figster said:

I wouldn't confuse decreased pass attempts because of the proper game planning dictated by weather conditions and the opposition with a decline in Josh Allens development. The Buffalo Bills are built to weather the storm.

 

Pretty hard to throw into or even with a 30mph wind. 

[GG]

It blatantly clear that Allen has improved as a passer.  In each successive game he's getting closer to jumping that hump. 

 

More often than not, his eyes are on the right player but he still hesitates a split second before throwing it or pulling the ball down to run.   I'm guessing that he still doesn't trust those kinds of throws because they're not instinctive to him yet.   It's that hesitation that's holding him back right now.

[Figster]

1 minute ago, teef said:

why don't people who don't feel josh is improving explain why?  it's a legit opinion, so why not put it out there?

Passing yardage is always at the top of the list. Throw for 300 or you suck. 

 

Here's the thing though, there will come a time say against the Chiefs for instance that the 300 yard game may become necessary. Mahomes and company comes at you fast a furious. Fall to far behind and game over. 

 

Is Allen improving? Yes, most fans agree. With that being said Josh Allen still has a long way to go to take down the A Rodgers or Mahomes of the NFL IMO.

[Phil The Thrill]

Easy question.  Yes he has improved as a passer.  Just take a look at his short throws which plagued him in college.

 

The biggest question is “has he improved enough?”

[teef]

Just now, Figster said:

Passing yardage is always at the top of the list. Throw for 300 or you suck. 

 

Here's the thing though, there will come a time say against the Chiefs for instance that the 300 yard game may become necessary. Mahomes and company comes at you fast a furious. Fall to far behind and game over. 

 

Is Allen improving? Yes, most fans agree. With that being said Josh Allen still has a long way to go to take down the A Rodgers or Mahomes of the NFL IMO.

i think you're right with the 300 benchmark.  and i also think you're right about allen at this point.  he's not going to out gun the big boys at this point in time. we knew he was a project, and as long as there's continued improvement, they should stick with him.

[TwistofFate]

5 minutes ago, teef said:

why don't people who don't feel josh is improving explain why?  it's a legit opinion, so why not put it out there?

He's improved in short yardage passes but regressed in deep passes. 

 

He's improved over a few games in interceptions, but has fumbled it in multiple games. 

 

He's being hidden by this coaching staff over the last few weeks and it obvious to anyone who's paying attention. 

 

They let Allen rip it early on in year and it was disasterous.   The ints, the fumbles, the wreckless runs, the injury, etc.   So they pulled in the reins.  That's the reason his passing has dropped.  He was putting the team in too many holes with bad throws. 

 

So, he's improved in some areas, and regressed in others.   Its a push imo. 

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

43 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

7 TDs & only 1 INT, in his last 4 games. 6 of the 7 TDs were in the redzone & 5 were to WRs(All weak points last year). Yeah he's improving. 

 

For comparison...Some are treating Lamar like he's God, he runs a lot I get it, but in his last 4 games he had games of 161 yards, 236 yards, 143 yards & 163 yards with only 2 TDs & 3 INTs. Matter of fact take the Miami game out and he has only 7 TDs & 5 INTs in his other 7 games. 

So should we take out Allen’s 202 and 2 tds against Miami? Stuff like this makes zero sense.

 

and I do feel like his short game has improved.  He’s still not good enough as a passer to be a franchise guy and I would love to see more indications that he is the type of qb that elevates his teammates.  But there has been subtle improvements.

[H2o]

Just now, TwistofFate said:

He's improved in short yardage passes but regressed in deep passes. 

 

He's improved over a few games in interceptions, but has fumbled it in multiple games. 

 

He's being hidden by this coaching staff over the last few weeks and it obvious to anyone who's paying attention. 

 

They let Allen rip it early on in year and it was disasterous.   The ints, the fumbles, the wreckless runs, the injury, etc.   So they pulled in the reins.  That's the reason his passing has dropped.  He was putting the team in too many holes with bad throws. 

 

So, he's improved in some areas, and regressed in others.   Its a push imo. 

[boater]

He's got that special quality: he's very coachable and he has a high ceiling.

 

Not all players are coachable and many are at their ceiling soon after being drafted.

[teef]

4 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

He's improved in short yardage passes but regressed in deep passes. 

 

He's improved over a few games in interceptions, but has fumbled it in multiple games. 

 

He's being hidden by this coaching staff over the last few weeks and it obvious to anyone who's paying attention. 

 

They let Allen rip it early on in year and it was disasterous.   The ints, the fumbles, the wreckless runs, the injury, etc.   So they pulled in the reins.  That's the reason his passing has dropped.  He was putting the team in too many holes with bad throws. 

 

So, he's improved in some areas, and regressed in others.   Its a push imo. 

 

 

i don't think this is as extreme as you're making it out to be.  that being said, i don't know what the coaches plan for josh is.  are they bringing him along slowly?  is this just the offense they intend to run regardless of the qb?  i'm not sure what you're talking about having allen "let it rip" and finding out it was a disaster.  can you elaborate?

[Nextmanup]

Creating the poll in such simple terms is not helpful or meaningful.

 

Is he improving, at all?  Yes.  In small, incremental ways.

 

Is it enough?  No, not close.

 

 

[Chandler#81]

He’s not just a stud QB, he’s OUR Stud QB.?

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So should we take out Allen’s 202 and 2 tds against Miami? Stuff like this makes zero sense.

 

and I do feel like his short game has improved.  He’s still not good enough as a passer to be a franchise guy and I would love to see more indications that he is the type of qb that elevates his teammates.  But there has been subtle improvements.

Why does it not make sense? Take a look at his games this year, which one doesn't belong? It's an outlier of all his other games. If the Miami team from the first couple of weeks played the Miami team from the last couple of weeks who would win and what would the score be? The team from the first few weeks would get their butts handed to them, there was absolutely NO effort from them.

[teef]

Just now, Nextmanup said:

Creating the poll in such simple terms is not helpful or meaningful.

 

Is he improving, at all?  Yes.  In small, incremental ways.

 

Is it enough?  No, not close.

 

 

so you answered yes?

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

5 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Creating the poll in such simple terms is not helpful or meaningful.

 

Is he improving, at all?  Yes.  In small, incremental ways.

 

Is it enough?  No, not close.

 

 

 

For everyone else in the world? Yes. 

 

For Nextmanup? No. 

 

Time to fire Pegula. 

[Figster]

3 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Creating the poll in such simple terms is not helpful or meaningful.

 

Is he improving, at all?  Yes.  In small, incremental ways.

 

Is it enough?  No, not close.

 

 

Yet Buffalo sits at 6 - 2 and the supposed top gun in a real good draft class Baker Mayfield and the Browns are 2 - 6. Mayfield playing with arguably a much better supporting cast. Superbowl contenders, remember?

 

I like the pace and I like the development , especially considering all the new faces on O.

 

A work in progress...

[C.Biscuit97]

14 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

Why does it not make sense? Take a look at his games this year, which one doesn't belong? It's an outlier of all his other games. If the Miami team from the first couple of weeks played the Miami team from the last couple of weeks who would win and what would the score be? The team from the first few weeks would get their butts handed to them, there was absolutely NO effort from them.

He just had 3 tds against a defense that was undefeated and off to a record start.

8 minutes ago, Figster said:

Yet Buffalo sits at 6 - 2 and the supposed top gun in a real good draft class Baker Mayfield and the Browns are 2 - 6. Mayfield playing with arguably a much better supporting cast. Superbowl contenders, remember?

 

I like the pace and I like the development , especially considering all the new faces on O.

 

A work in progress...

Honest question: do you think our record would be different with Mayfield?

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He just had 3 tds against a defense that was undefeated and off to a record start.

But 2 were on the ground and that really has nothing to do with being a good QB. That 1 TD was his only passing TD in his last 3 games for crying out loud. The game before that he had 1 TD and 3 INTs vs the Steelers. He had almost as many TDs vs Miami that he's had in the other 7 games combined. Passing wise he has cooled way off from early in the year, there's is absolutely no denying that.

 

Take a look at the first 4 games, then the last 4 games. He's not the same QB passing wise.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/3916387/lamar-jackson

Edited November 6, 2019 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS