A Few Thoughts about the Eagles Game, in no particular order

[JinxedBill]

I just hope we can win another game!  Spot on. Let’s fix/improve and move on to the skins.

 

5-2 is certainly not too shabby so far.  We were a borderline playoff team starting the season.  We still are.

Edited October 27, 2019 by JinxedBill

[Southern Bills Fan]

Good write up. My other main concern is the pre-snap penalties aren’t getting any better. We have way to many. 

[fansince88]

@Virgil, another great post. I hope I didnt get you to let your guard down too much in the shoutbox earlier. I have to bet McD is boxing Dabolls ears right now instead of clapping. He cant be happy with what he saw today. That said McD may call D plays next week too.

[vincec]

24 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

true.  But not if we play like we did the last two games.  If we played ANY other team last week we likely are 4-3.  

 

might want to change Ravens and Denver to Loss if last 2 weeks continue 

Yeah, beating the Ravens would be a big win. And probably an upset.

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

 

 We can, but it's not going to be as easy it seemed before two weeks ago.  I see 4 more slam dunk wins.  I could argue each of the remaining.

This game alters nothing about the big picture for the season.

 

When we play bad teams, we squeak out wins.

When we play good teams, we lose.

 

Expect this team to qualify for the playoffs as a wildcard, face a good team on the road, and lose.

 

 

 

 

[Do The Reich Thing]

This was an honest assessment. I don’t view it as doom and gloom by any means. It’s the truth. I’m tired of them being so passive on both sides of the ball. We need to beat the Redskins ass next week on both sides of the ball. 

[goldenboy81]

It sucks they played poorly today but I'm still staying on the train. They haven't even played good for 4 quarters and they are 5-2. Still alot of season left and time to get clicking. Go Bills

[fansince88]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

He should look in the mirror. His hand picked defense got manhandled. 

Ok.......sure.....

[Playoffs?]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

 

 We can, but it's not going to be as easy it seemed before two weeks ago.  I see 4 more slam dunk wins.  I could argue each of the remaining.

 

Great writeup as usual, Virgil! 

 

My huge concern is that there are no slam dunk wins for us... there should be... but look  at the Jets, Bengals, and Dolphins games. Throw in the Titans as well. A couple bad bounces and breaks, and those slam dunks become losses for us (putting us right back in the cellar of the NFL).

 

Yes I’m pretty pessimistic right now, and am firmly in the ‘we’re nowhere near as good as our record shows’ camp.  I love the Bills.. I just don’t see this team being truly worthy of a playoff spot.... Either they need to make some roster improvements, or our coaches need to get their sh!t together quickly!  If not, there are no easy wins remaining on our schedule.  That’s a scary thought. 

[Freddie's Dead]

I'm laying this at the foot of McD, Daboll, and Frazier.  McD screwed up before the game even started, benching McKittrick for Foster, who had one target and didn't adjust to the ball.  Foster slows down, maybe he draws a PI call.  Why Foster on a day with 30mph winds?  The ST reason I heard before the game, since McK only returns kicks, kinda made sense, but why not wait for a calm day at The Cap?

 

Then he elects to receive, instead of deferring.  While the wind worked out in the end, Philly could have screwed him on the wind by electing to kick in the 2nd half.

 

He dropped the challenge flag on the borderline non-PI call on Brown, but THANK GOD it was after the snap, which resulted in the Motor screen pass TD.  McD was a *****in' disaster today.

 

Daboll let Josh handle it 42 times, versus just 12 for Gore/Motor.  On a day where most of the game was within two scores, that's inexcusable.  The worst call was 3rd and two on your own 20 yard line.  Eschew the HOF'er for your rookie QB who's already put the ball on the carpet.  That play cost the Bills the game, as the Eagles go in for the TD and never look back.  

 

And Down goes Frayzhuh!!  His inability to adjust to stop the run, or to put pressure on Wentz was just brutal.  Repeated failures on 3rd down, no spy on Wentz, nothing.  Schwartz had no problem stopping us with two practice squad guys on the DL starting their first NFL game.  We were terrible by comparison.

 

In the biggest game of the season, complete coaching failure in all phases of the game.  May we hope for better going forward. 

[LABILLBACKER]

From now on Virgil I need you to give your thoughts in a particular order.

[CSBill]

1 hour ago, John in Jax said:

Someone said it in the game day thread, and it bears repeating here: The Bills are who we thought they are. And the latter "we" refers to those of us with some actual football knowledge, and DO NOT wear rose-colored glasses. LOL

 

You're giving yourself way too much credit here, you with the "actual football knowledge."

[DuckyBoys]

Your spot on.   I'd add the defense continues to be not aggressive enough to force mistakes by the opposing qb  How is it on every 2nd and 10 we get gashed for most of that on a simple draw play.  Offense I'd start with what exactly is our identity?  Seriously I cannot figure out what we are trying to accomplish other than possibly get Allen injured yet again.  There are drives where they look like a bad jv high school offense .  For the love of God please stop with the endless hard count  Allen's cadence has drawn way more false starts than anything helping the offense and it helps the defense time the snap knowing they are down to  few on the play clock  I'm over the disappointment and in full disclosure elated we sit at 5-2.  Now to not overreact and try and enjoy the week up to a winnable Skins game

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, WhoTom said:

 

Good post all around, Virgil. Regarding the above, I don't know if you saw the article about McD and the coaching staff, but supposedly they're all open to criticism from the players. Hopefully, Josh gets into Daboll's ear about the play-calling. I'm guessing he's not happy with it either.

 

In a way, I see Daboll as being a lot like Josh. He's still learning this job at an NFL level, just like Josh is. At times, both have shown signs of competence - and occasional brilliance now and then - while at other times we're scratching our heads and asking, "What the hell was he thinking?" Best case scenario, they grow and learn together, and contribute to each other's success.

 

 

 

We don't have the luxury of training Dumbell while we're training Josh. We needed an experienced OC who can teach JA at a developmental pace. Not a clueless guy who's making more mistakes than his young qb.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

They really had the momentum a few times but neither side of the ball could sustain it. Outcoached and outplayed. Embarrassing but we all know the schedule....

[transplantbillsfan]

Why isn't anyone talking about Daboll's complete abandonment of that little motion sweep misdirection play?

 

McKenzie was ALWAYS running in the backfield at least as a decoy. When he was inactive, I thought Foster would be that guy.

[BillsfaninSB]

I never thought we were going to be 14 - 2 team.  10 wins is our ceiling. I will be content if we hit that.

 

What was really disappointing is that this was a blowout. I thought those days were behind us.

[Playoffs?]

1 hour ago, John in Jax said:

Someone said it in the game day thread, and it bears repeating here: The Bills are who we thought they are. And the latter "we" refers to those of us with some actual football knowledge, and DO NOT wear rose-colored glasses. LOL

 

I did say earlier in the game day thread that “the Bills are who most people thought they were.”  More referring to the rest of the league, fans and media.  I still stand by that statement!

[Virgil]

25 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

I'm laying this at the foot of McD, Daboll, and Frazier.  McD screwed up before the game even started, benching McKittrick for Foster, who had one target and didn't adjust to the ball.  Foster slows down, maybe he draws a PI call.  Why Foster on a day with 30mph winds?  The ST reason I heard before the game, since McK only returns kicks, kinda made sense, but why not wait for a calm day at The Cap?

 

 

I wasn't at the game, but from what the commentators said, the ball was completely destroyed by the wind.  Even the defenders seemed to have lost the ball in the air.  I can't put that on Foster.

 

I can blame Daboll for not calling his number more than once though.  If that was the play, then McKenzie should have started

[Freddie's Dead]

Just now, Virgil said:

 

I wasn't at the game, but from what the commentators said, the ball was completely destroyed by the wind.  Even the defenders seemed to have lost the ball in the air.  I can't put that on Foster.

 

I can blame Daboll for not calling his number more than once though.  If that was the play, then McKenzie should have started

 

Just read your Don't Post Angry thread, but I'm still pissed.  I'm in Denny Green mode.  "WE LET 'EM OFF THE HOOK!"

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We can, but what then?  Unless the Bills coaches put together some serious self-scouting and figure something out, it is looking as though we are missing something to go anywhere if we do.  IMO both some players and some coaching.

Exactly. We're pretty much an exactly average team. I'm looking at fivethirtyeight's continuous update to their ELO rankings, where 1500 is set as average. We're at 1493. 18th in the NFL. Thanks to the weakness of the AFC though, that's 8th in the conference with a 65 % playoff chance, but still: weaker than Jax, Titans, Indy, and way below Baltimore. The weak schedule has put us in great position, and so far the Bills haven't blown it (Philly is, on paper and on the field, a better team, and obviously the Pats are too), but this is still a middle of the pack team.

Virgil, I think you're right about the O line. It's a veteran crew that outside of Morse and Dawkins is composed of cast-offs from other teams and a project (Ford) who've played reasonably well, but who are limited, and those limitations are showing. Today was a tough day for the deep ball to emerge, but still: the deep ball has been missing all year. And to your thoughts let me add "where's Jerry Hughes?" 

[Kevmurph1213]

A few weeks ago we lost by 6 to the odds on favorite team to win the Superbowl.  Bad game today, move on, get in the playoffs and anything can happen.  

[Bad Things]

Yeah, that's a pretty spot-on summation, Virgil.

 

We were really beaten by a better team in all facets of the game.

Some of the run-blocking by the Eagles made it look like men playing with boys out there.  Way too easy.

 

Oh... and the "Charlie Sheen" play is the most perfectly named offense play ever.  It was a complete train-wreck !

 

One more thing... props to Eagles  Mafia  fans for really making their presence heard on the broadcast of the game.  If seem like there was a lot of their fans there.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Bad Things

[The Frankish Reich]

46 minutes ago, Playoffs? said:

 

Great writeup as usual, Virgil! 

 

My huge concern is that there are no slam dunk wins for us... there should be... but look  at the Jets, Bengals, and Dolphins games. Throw in the Titans as well. A couple bad bounces and breaks, and those slam dunks become losses for us (putting us right back in the cellar of the NFL).

 

Yes I’m pretty pessimistic right now, and am firmly in the ‘we’re nowhere near as good as our record shows’ camp.  I love the Bills.. I just don’t see this team being truly worthy of a playoff spot.... Either they need to make some roster improvements, or our coaches need to get their sh!t together quickly!  If not, there are no easy wins remaining on our schedule.  That’s a scary thought. 

Other than the Redskins IF Haskins has to play QB (Keenum concussion, so it ought to be a slam dunk if that happens), I agree. Even the Dolphins gave us a good scare ...

[vincec]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Other than the Redskins IF Haskins has to play QB (Keenum concussion, so it ought to be a slam dunk if that happens), I agree. Even the Dolphins gave us a good scare ...

Well, it's the NFL after all and the Bills aren't the Patriots so I think you have to assume that every game will be tough.

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, vincec said:

Well, it's the NFL after all and the Bills aren't the Patriots so I think you have to assume that every game will be tough.

Agreed, but Haskins has looked completely lost.

You could also get the Broncos with Drew Lock at QB, but I won't discount him until he sees some regular season action ... for all I know he's the next Gardner Minshew.

[Comebackkid]

one thought is that...  

1 good player improves that one position.

1 good coach improves the entire unit.  

 

a good coach takes a unit and makes them greater than their individual skill level.  

 

if anything Daboll is handicapping our offense.

 

 

[yungmack]

Have to say I agree with all your points and your assessment. I have been feeling this way all season, doubting the coaching, the offense in toto, the D personnel, and the 5 wins. But unlike you, I am not depressed because, in Dennis Greens immortal words, the Bills "are who thought they were." Or maybe Warren Buffett's adage is better: " You don't know who's been swimming naked until the tide goes out. "

Edited October 28, 2019 by yungmack

[mannc]

2 hours ago, Another Fan said:

^^^

This.

 

The vibes I got from the boards before today:

Josh Allen is a 4th quarter master who will always come through in the clutch.  That one poll most even thought he would have led the win against the Pats if not injured.  

The Bills are a good team that's why other teams look bad

Just trust the process.  We are 5-1.  "The process" guarantees wins no matter what it looks like 

 

After today:

This team is trash

Josh Allen sucks

We were 5-1 because we had a cupcake schedule 

The OC should be fired

 

 

Like you I think the Bills are in the middle.  2020 was really the year I had the high expectations for.  9-10 wins is still definitely doable though this year.  

 

Doable?  9 wins would be totally unacceptable at this point.   With this schedule, 10 is barely acceptable, after starting 5-1.

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

 We can, but it's not going to be as easy it seemed before two weeks ago.  I see 4 more slam dunk wins.  I could argue each of the remaining.

min a matter of minutes you went from maybe not winning another game to 4 slam dunks. 
 

 

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

min a matter of minutes you went from maybe not winning another game to 4 slam dunks. 
 

 

There are zero slam dunks on our schedule.  We have a bottom of the barrel offense that’s going to cause us to struggle to beat even poor teams like Miami, Washington and the Jests. We should still win 10 games, but we’ll have fight and scrap every week in order to get there.

Edited October 28, 2019 by mannc

[Virgil]

6 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

min a matter of minutes you went from maybe not winning another game to 4 slam dunks. 
 

 

huh?  Where did I say we wouldn’t win another game?

[GoBills808]

18 minutes ago, mannc said:

Doable?  9 wins would be totally unacceptable at this point.   With this schedule, 10 is barely acceptable, after starting 5-1.

It’s not like they give you extra wins because you start well. I had them starting 5-1 and finishing 10-6. Totally acceptable.

[Motor26]

The thing that stands out the most for me is the lack of talent the Bills have. The Star and Murphy signings were horrible. John Brown is good, but the other receivers leave a lot to be desired. The O line Morse is good the rest of the guys they signed are spot starters at best. They need to take their 70 million in cap space and spend it on bringing real talent in here.

[CincyBillsFan]

I agree with your take on Allen.  Through the first 3 quarters I was feeling like he was on his way to having one of his best games. 

 

But the inability to stop the Eagles offense put to much pressure on a Bills offense that's still a work in progress.  Get 2 stops on those 3 TD drives in the 2nd half and I absolutely believe Allen and the O get another TD to win the game 20 - 17.  But if you had told me ahead of time that the Eagles were going to score 31 points in a WIND GAME I would have said the Bills got their butts kicked.

 

 

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

It’s not like they give you extra wins because you start well. I had them starting 5-1 and finishing 10-6. Totally acceptable.

They have the weakest schedule imaginable.  The Bills might very well play only three games against teams with winning records.  As I said, 10-6 is barely acceptable.

Edited October 28, 2019 by mannc

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, mannc said:

They have the weakest schedule imaginable.  The Bills might very well play only three games against teams with winning records.  As I said, 10-6 is barely acceptable.

Not realistic. Just a reaction to a bad loss today. 

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea... 11-5 should be the bare minimum with this cake walk schedule for a regime in year 3.... still plenty of time to rebound, but for such a team heavily invested in the defense, they've looked pretty mediocre on that side of the ball the last couple weeks. 

Yeah, I’m just so sick of watching an offense with literally zero playmakers.  It’s just depressing.

Edited October 28, 2019 by mannc

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Not realistic. Just a reaction to a bad loss today. 

What’s not realistic?  10 wins against inarguably the easiest schedule in the league?

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1. McD and staff coach not to lose

2. No pass rush

3. No turnovers 

4. Special teams suck

5. Odd play calling

6. Pre-snap penalties 

7. Defense collapses

 

Tell me what has changed in three years? 

 

Beane needs to make two moves to fix an overrated defense. They need a pass rusher and a big body to spell Star.  Murphy needs to be benched. Lawson wasn't that good today either but he is a far better player than Murphy. Teams are going to run all over them if they don't start Lawson.  Murphy is the defensive equivalent to Peterman only far more expensive.