Daboll - Grade Him

[Scott7975]

Not going to put a grade out there but I am not a fan.  Doesn't seem to game plan well.  I don't think he is handling Josh very well either.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Never been a fan and he certainly hasn’t convinced me yet. I cringe at every designed QB run. Would love to see the yardage breakdown of Allen’s YPA when running a designed run vs running from a broken pocket. 

 

I'm not sure yardage breakdown of YPA would tell you.  A couple of times those designed QB runs have worked needed short yardage.

[Best Williams Available]

How many plays per game are blown up due to bad timing? Seems his plays require perfect timing to be executed properly, and if any obstruction arises the play is dead. Doesn’t he engineer alternate options if the first option is not there? It also seems as though these young players can’t follow his plays. At least twice yesterday JA was looking to throw to a guy who was blocking downfield vs looking for the ball. Not sure if Allen or the receiver is to blame there. So, I think his plays are essentially too complex (to be executed by this squad) and over designed (not able to be executed in the real world). He’s trying too hard to be the smartest guy out there, when he should just be tailoring his plays to his player’s strengths.

[billsfan_34]

D 

[Nelius]

My pessimistic B- is now a solid C. He definitely shouldn't be getting worse, I'm not a fan.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

D. for Dumboll. I can guess the plays based on formation. In the beginning of the year, I thought we had some new wrinkles to this offense and things would gel. Instead, the play calling has regressed and its the predictable run, run, pass, punt or fumble option.

[Locomark]

He is getting worse every week. His grade was a D for the last game. No play action, no outside runs, slants, screens, outs, little deception....yuck

[Captain Murica]

My C- is now a D- and that’s being generous. 

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He was kind of a waste of a 3rd round pick if he isn't, no? 

 

I thought we picked him at least a round too early. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by GunnerBill

[Búfalo Blanco]

C+

 

Run the damned ball, Daboll! Consistently!!!

[Radar]

Don't like him at all. I'll show some mercy though.........D-.

[Chandler#81]

Youz guys are being mean.

 

[Socal-805]

On 10/21/2019 at 10:53 AM, ngbills said:

The Bills are 5-1. It is undeniable that they have a defense in the top of the league. The offense is another story. 

 

What are your opinions of Daboll? How much of the struggle is on the players vs the play calling / scheme? 

 

The first half of the Dolphins game was killing me. Showed some patterns from the entire season, but against a bad team I expected better. Some of 

 

Yesterday especially boneheaded:

Designed runs to Allen vs the worst team in the NFL. Once in a while, sure. But really, we trying to get him hurt. Not needed in this game, especially in the first quarter.

Gore - Drive #1 - First play 8 yard run; only one more run that drive. Drive #2 - Gore 10yd run first play; zero runs rest of drive. We never establish the run even thought Gore is breaking off long runs consistently. 

 

All Seaon:

Long Developing plays. Way too many routes that take forever for a guy to get where he needs to be. 

Getting into a flow. This offense has struggled getting into a flow. A lot of times one play sets them back. 

Cutesy Plays - Once in while ok. But too many of these we are going to fool you plays. Save them for the right spots not 3 times in one drive. 

Getting calls in - Allen seems frantic trying to get the ball snapped way too often. 

Identity - Are we pass happy team? A running team that can pass? Do we adjust to the defense playing? Can we adjust to schemes?

 

 

 

Deny.

 

C-

 

 

[WideNine]

12 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:

C- 

at times the Bills will put together a 10 play drive but then they follow it up with a quarter and a half of nothing  . A lot of it is execution and being to cute with play calls  If Gore is working feed him.  He gets tired give it to the next back.  He needs to remove the endless Allen hard count.  Its clear our O line and Lee Smith are not disciplined enough and we get more false starts plus it allows the D line to time it when Allen is getting the ball with 1 on the clock. 

 

Noticed the hard count too.

 

I have been calling for them to be less predictable with their cadence to slow opposing players from jumping the snap and so that Allen could get a better read on pressure/blitz packages.

 

There is one player that seems to be getting the Lion's share of false starts, Lee Smith, and there is no excuse. He just has to clean up his concentration issues.

 

I think he is someone that officials focus on now because of his penalty history.

 

Other pre-snap penalties on others I think may also be a result of how often the Bills have had to juggle their lineup due to injuries.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by WideNine

[colin]

smoke said that this is the most complicated O he's ever been on.  I have no reason to doubt him.

 

we are too clever by half, and just generally not productive.  we've gotten worse as a team since the bye, and our O just shat the bed in the second half vs philly.  at this point, i see no evidence that dabol doesn't suck.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, Best Williams Available said:

How many plays per game are blown up due to bad timing? Seems his plays require perfect timing to be executed properly, and if any obstruction arises the play is dead. Doesn’t he engineer alternate options if the first option is not there? It also seems as though these young players can’t follow his plays. At least twice yesterday JA was looking to throw to a guy who was blocking downfield vs looking for the ball. Not sure if Allen or the receiver is to blame there. So, I think his plays are essentially too complex (to be executed by this squad) and over designed (not able to be executed in the real world). He’s trying too hard to be the smartest guy out there, when he should just be tailoring his plays to his player’s strengths.

 

This is actually a fair summation of my mixed feelings on Daboll.

 

When his plays work, they are clever.  But it seems as though they're too complex for a new-to-each-other set of moving parts and a wet-behind-ears QB to execute consistently.

 

Daboll "grew up" coaching TE for the NE offense when it was already a fully-developed machine.  I don't think he saw, or is able to go back and see, the relatively basic but effective offense the Pats used to run when Brady was a new QB.  It was almost 50/50 run/pass and did not rely upon the WR/TE/QB all independently being on the same page and making the same read on the D.

 

[WideNine]

I have calmed down a bit so feel I can be a little more objective.

 

I would not want my Bills to throw the baby out with the bathwater. To be fair Daboll has called an excellent red zone offense. Some of his play designs in that area have completely undressed opposing D's. The Bills lead or have led the league in red zone proficiency. It's consistency getting to the red zone that has been an issue and his willingness to call plays that expose Allen to unnecessary hits.

 

I think that Daboll probably is a tough task master with Allen, but marrying the kid with one of the highest wonderlic scores but the most positional development needs with a task master who is sharp, and wants to run a complicated offense is not the worst thing for Allen's development as long as Daboll does not break his new shiny toy.

 

Allen's short to intermediate game, touch on throws, throwing with anticipation, and in-game management is progressing and some of that has to be Daboll.

 

Daboll has gotten a bit pass happy with too many plays developing East West behind the LOS and too few simply designed for quick North South execution. He just needs to think about where this offense and all its new pieces are in regards to developing chemistry and understanding his playbook, the field conditions, on field matchups and who is winning those and adapt.

 

Even if he just forced himself into a more balance approach between pass and run, regardless of field conditions or worrying that the opposing team is good against the run, he would find more sustained success.

 

I have never believed in conceding your run game just because the other team has a good run defense. You make them play pass and run the whole game unless you have to play catch up and take more chances. That way they cannot just pin their ears back rushing your QB, and you never know when you are going to break a long one.

 

Correctable things if he has the willingness to take in the feedback from the coaches and players around him objectively and apply it in a way that helps this offense become more consistent.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by WideNine

[Xwnyer]

D minus.  I have no idea what he is trying to do or establish

[JPP]

Strong D........his playcalling is atrocious...no other way to put it......when you should run he throws....when you should throw he calls runs......doesnt use our RB's and when they produce he abandons the run??  Even McD acknowledged there is a "problem" with the offence...whether it be JA's passing or the playcalling it has to get fixed quick......this is looking way too familar this time of year........

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, JPP said:

Strong D........his playcalling is atrocious...no other way to put it......when you should run he throws....when you should throw he calls runs......doesnt use our RB's and when they produce he abandons the run??  Even McD acknowledged there is a "problem" with the offence...whether it be JA's passing or the playcalling it has to get fixed quick......this is looking way too familar this time of year........

 

 

...Allen is his all too convenient bailout when he effs up.....hoping Josh can be our long term franchise QB answer versus a quick exit on a gurney......Daboll got a "pass" last year because of personnel....check out his resume'....a bunch of "one and done stints" as OC......HAD to be the personnel, right??............

[vincec]

On 10/28/2019 at 1:49 PM, ngbills said:

Well he did lead the nation is rushing attempts in 2017. Not sure why people think he cant handle a workload. He is 5'7 and 203 vs gore at 5'9 and 212. Not a huge difference. 

If you watched the two of them run up the middle last week you could see the difference. There is a big difference between the two between the tackles.

[CEN-CAL17]

He was a borderline B- 2 weeks ago, but none the less a B.

 

After Miami and Philly game.... D+.

[bobshaw81]

F  

Play calling is terrible and week to week game plans are marginal at best. Our 5 wins come against teams that have a combined 7-30 record and we average 20 pts. a game or so. We are a poor mans 5-2 team. 8 three and outs on 13 possessions last week. Screen game is non existent.  That should be an extension of the run game for every NFL offense. Basic stuff. No playaction. No bootlegs. Deep passing game doesn't exist so D will press up more until we prove we can hit the deep ball. Very bland play designs, not much misdirection. Just hope he doesn't ruin Allen, who has regressed the last few weeks. I blame Daboll designed game plans mostly, minus Josh's fumbling, that's on him. Why the hell is Isaiah McKenzie inactive? He reminds me a better version of Roscoe. He should be getting 4-5 touches a game. That end around should be a staple play every week until teams show they can stop it. And when they can, fake it to McKenzie, need to get more misdirection going, and throw a screen pass opposite side. Need much more creativity in play designs. At the end of last year Allen and Foster seemed to have serious connection. Foster finished last season with 3 straight games of 100+ receiving yards. He was our best deep, intermediate threat last year when he got the opportunity to get some real snaps. To me that's a no brainer to try to keep developing their chemistry and build upon last year, right McD? 

 

I hope Daboll lets Allen be Allen and starts designing  more passing plays outside of the pocket for him. Let the kid be an athlete and sling the football. Josh isn't ready to be the quick read short throw guy as our primary offensive package. Both Aaron Rodgers and Deshaun Watson take a lot of sacks like Allen. They however make more big plays outside the pocket than any other NFL qbs. To me Allen can do the same in time if they give him the confidence to do so. GO BILLS!

 

 

[DCBongo]

Best in recent years, but that's a low bar to exceed.

[Don Otreply]

After the last game you gotta think Daboll and our players were reading their own press clippings and believing them. There was plenty of ineptitude on display during that game.  Let’s all hope our guys get their combined heads out of their backsides, I think the team wins vs the skins.

 

Go Bills!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

C+. 
Less Lee Smith

More Singletary in run and pass game

Less DiMarco on pass plays (tried to throw deep to him Sunday)

More Foster. 
Less Zay which was solved. 
Few Less designed Josh runs outside of the Opponent five yard line. 
More rolling pocket and boot plays. 

[Chris66]

22 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This is actually a fair summation of my mixed feelings on Daboll.

 

When his plays work, they are clever.  But it seems as though they're too complex for a new-to-each-other set of moving parts and a wet-behind-ears QB to execute consistently.

 

Daboll "grew up" coaching TE for the NE offense when it was already a fully-developed machine.  I don't think he saw, or is able to go back and see, the relatively basic but effective offense the Pats used to run when Brady was a new QB.  It was almost 50/50 run/pass and did not rely upon the WR/TE/QB all independently being on the same page and making the same read on the D.

 

He was the wide receivers coach when Brady was a young qb. He left ne in 2006.

[reddogblitz]

D.  If Rex Roman/Anthony Lynn with Hotrod at QB can be top 1/3 of league in scoring 2 years in a row, Dabol should be able to do at least as well with Josh under center.

 

We ain't scoring points = FAIL.

[C.Biscuit97]

He’s never been a good nfl OC.  Funny that Jalen Hurts was “holding him back” and now looks like a Heisman candidate.

 

i think Daboll knows a lot about football.   I don’t dispute that.  But I said all along that with a guy like Allen, they settled with Daboll.  

[HOUSE]

You guys are awful tough on the next head coach of the Miami Dolphins

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, HOUSE said:

You guys are awful tough on the next head coach of the Miami Dolphins

You’re right.  This thread will come back to haunt us next year!

[Chris66]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He’s never been a good nfl OC.  Funny that Jalen Hurts was “holding him back” and now looks like a Heisman candidate.

 

i think Daboll knows a lot about football.   I don’t dispute that.  But I said all along that with a guy like Allen, they settled with Daboll.  

I dont think they settled. I think its a very complex system to master. Josh would probably be better served running an offense like what carson palmer ran in cincy.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

55 minutes ago, Chris66 said:

I dont think they settled. I think its a very complex system to master. Josh would probably be better served running an offense like what carson palmer ran in cincy.

Josh scored a 37 on the wonderlic and Brady scored a 33. I think Allen can handle the complexity of this offense. 

[C.Biscuit97]

58 minutes ago, Chris66 said:

I dont think they settled. I think its a very complex system to master. Josh would probably be better served running an offense like what carson palmer ran in cincy.

Great coaches coach to their player’s strengths.  I always felt Daboll was trying to force Allen into a Brady offense. Allen would be better served in a Greg Roman offense IMO.

2 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Josh scored a 37 on the wonderlic and Brady scored a 33. I think Allen can handle the complexity of this offense. 

Football intelligence is completely different than test intelligence.  Jim Kelly scores a 13 or something. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Great coaches coach to their player’s strengths.  I always felt Daboll was trying to force Allen into a Brady offense. Allen would be better served in a Greg Roman offense IMO.

Football intelligence is completely different than test intelligence.  Jim Kelly scores a 13 or something. 

If they use the wonderlic for a football purpose then it must serve a football purpose. Just like that paper folding test when you are taking the test to be a plumber. It must serve a purpose or it wouldn’t be in there.

[reddogblitz]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Great coaches coach to their player’s strengths.  I always felt Daboll was trying to force Allen into a Brady offense. Allen would be better served in a Greg Roman offense IMO.

 

Is he really trying to put Josh into a Tommy offense?  Tommy's offense is based on short fast guys running crossing patterns and pick plays.  I've seen little of that. Most of the time it looks more like the Coach Hackett offense throwing to guys standing still.  Just doing more of it.

 

Really bugs me he is bound and determined to pass on every play with an inaccurate QB when we have the 7th best run game in NFL and an all time great ground and pounder in Frank Gore coupled with a really good D.  Would open up the pass game and play action I would think.

 

Don't waste  really good D and a favorable schedule looking ahead.

 

Do what you do do well.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

If they use the wonderlic for a football purpose then it must serve a football purpose. Just like that paper folding test when you are taking the test to be a plumber. It must serve a purpose or it wouldn’t be in there.

Marino had a 16 and Fitz had a 49.  You’d rather not have a moron but doesn’t make or break a qb.

[Ayjent]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Is he really trying to put Josh into a Tommy offense?  Tommy's offense is based on short fast guys running crossing patterns and pick plays.  I've seen little of that. Most of the time it looks more like the Coach Hackett offense throwing to guys standing still.  Just doing more of it.

 

Really bugs me he is bound and determined to pass on every play with an inaccurate QB when we have the 7th best run game in NFL and an all time great ground and pounder in Frank Gore coupled with a really good D.  Would open up the pass game and play action I would think.

 

Don't waste  really good D and a favorable schedule looking ahead.

 

Do what you do do well.

They don't run that well and they don't pass that well either.  Neither aspect is good enough to be too much one or the other.  They do best when they get a good balance and don't telegraph whether they are passing or running by formation.  What really drives me crazy is how predictable they are based on formation - they rarely use play-action from what looks like heavy run sets.  When they do - they have been very successful.  They rarely run when they have a wide spread formation unless it is Allen, and I'm just not that keen on him being an occasional running back if you are trying to have a long-term franchise QB. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Ayjent

[Bookie Man]

RUN DA-BOLL

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

47 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Marino had a 16 and Fitz had a 49.  You’d rather not have a moron but doesn’t make or break a qb.

Marino has said that he didn’t take that test seriously. I understand the test is just one of many to try and get a read on a player. All I’m saying is that it must serve a purpose otherwise it would not be done.