Duke Williams impressing again...activate him!

[Kelly the Dog]

1 hour ago, MR8 said:

 

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/2011 CBA Updated with Side Letters thru 1-5-15.pdf

 

I honestly can't find a clear answer to this in the CBA... 

If a team wants to sign him they make a contract offer to his agent. The agent informs the player and usually the team he is on the PS of. That team can then make any contract offer they want to him, to match, for more or for less. The player and agent then decide which one they will sign.

 

The PS team he’s on obviously knows he must be on 53 and they must release another player to sign him so that is always a big factor. 

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

They went out and got two veterans to improve the WR position on the team, which tells you what they thought of the position last year. Again, this is Jone's third year in the NFL and his second with Allen. If he is going to be a wide receiver of the future for this team, then his future needs to start now. 

 

I like Zay and hope he turns into what we want him to be. However, to say Brown and Beasley are the now and Zay is the future - as if he is some rookie that shouldn't be held to the standard of a what you might expect from a starting NFL wide receiver in his 3rd year is nonsensical.

We signed Them 4 or 5 year contracts.

Beasley got a 4 year deal.  Brown only got 3.  Both got big money in the first 2 years.

Zay will have this season to prove he can do what he did the last half of last season.  On top of that he is the #3 WR , do you expect 100 receptions and 1000 yards.

 

And BTW unless Ive missed something, the only drops Ive see by either Jones or Foster were both poorly thrown balls.

Edited September 19, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[Kelly the Dog]

Another look in video. Apologies if shown before. 

 

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

It's psychological and hopefully it passes.  He got passed it last year he will get passed it again.  For some reason the kid seems to have confidence issues.

Um, we are two games in.  I would say thats closer to two than 3.  I remember having arguments with idiots on this board over Robert Woods.  I think we know who was right now.  You people act like he has a 10mil a year contract or something.  Probably would have cut Drew Brees.  After all it took him 4 or 5 years to get it together.

You tell that to the coaching staff and front office who went out and got two veterans for these young guys to learn from.

Well for one I hope he does get passed it, however I disagree that he got passed it last year. He had a lot of drops last year. That isn't exactly "getting over it" yet. So we will see.

[billsfan1959]

12 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

We signed Them 4 or 5 year contracts.

Beasley got a 4 year deal.  Brown only got 3.  Both got big money in the first 2 years.

Zay will have this season to prove he can do what he did the last half of last season.  On top of that he is the #3 WR , do you expect 100 receptions and 1000 yards.

No, I expect a proportionate success rate that we see from Brown and Beasley. He may get less targets; however, his production should be consistently relative. 

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

Reading comprehension is a weak point for you. 

 

Putting thoughts into words you actually mean is a weak point for you.

[MAJBobby]

3 hours ago, MR8 said:

 

If you cut Connor McDermott you only have 3 OTs, Dawkins, Ford, and Ty.... most people want to move Ty over to OG, so you want to only have 2 OTs on the roster?

 

Lee Smith is the best blocker we have and he has been healthy, something neither Kroft nor Knox have been this off-season, cutting him opens you up to being short handed if Kroft can't stay healthy WHEN he actually is able to play.

 

Johnson is playing a key role in special teams, and rotation at Safety. 

 

I agree, Duke keeps impressing... but who do you cut to get him on the active roster? If Singletary isn't 100% they're going to need to consider adding a RB as it is, and they're already dangerously thin at CB.

 

My thought is the Bills are looking to get the O-Line sorted out and either cut or trade the odd man out to a team needy of O-Line help. Once they do that they will open up a spot they can use for RB, CB, or WR. My thought is their first call for the 53 for each:

 

RB: Marcus Murphy (FA still) or Byron Marshall (PS)
CB: Cam Lewis (PS)
WR: Duke Williams (PS)

 

They have other more pressing needs right now than WR, and while I think Duke should be on the 53 ... who do you cut?

 

Right now, IMHO the lowest of the low on the totem pole for the 53 are: Kurt Coleman (S) & Ike Boettger (OG)... While he's buried on the depth chart I think Coleman is a team favorite because of his familiarity with the system, and Boettger is a rotational depth guy on the line's interior, but maybe is becoming expendable with Morse, Spain, Feliciano being the starters and Long and Bates playing as well as they have in reserve roles. Plus Ford looking better at OG changes that interior as well, but it makes us VERY thin at OT where we only have 4 including Ford. If Ford is permanently moved to OG, they can trade Long and/or cut Boettger because it would move Feliciano to a reserve role. But we end up with just 3 OTs in Dawkins, Ty, and Connor McDermott. That's far less than Ideal.

 

It's a VERY difficult numbers game right now, so just adding Duke means losing something else. They are a bit banged up on the back end so you don't want them to cut a Safety unless they're adding a CB to fill in for Johnson. You just don't want to thin the herd right now with NE on the horizon.

 

I would keep an eye on Andre Robert's health and the kick return game. If they guys handling it now keep doing the good job they're doing, I could see them move Roberts to IR and release him with an injury settlement which could open the door for Duke Williams to come on to the 53 man roster. But that's really the only avenue at this juncture I see which would get Duke Promoted... until the O-Line is more settled and we have a clearer picture of who we want to keep and who can go.

 

 

Sure Cut McDermott go with 3 OTs. McDermott takes dukes spot in PS. 

 

Another option cut one of the Interior Line as well. 

 

Otherwise Duke stays on PS 

 

heck at at this point JUST IR Glass (I mean Kroft) 

Edited September 19, 2019 by MAJBobby

[Patrick Duffy]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Sure Cut McDermott go with 3 OTs. McDermott takes dukes spot in PS. 

 

Another option cut one of the Interior Line as well. 

 

Otherwise Duke stays on PS 

 

heck at at this point JUST IR Glass (I mean Kroft) 

Good Point. That's probably where he will end up anyways pretty soon.

[BuffaloBob]

19 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

He’s at it again, get this guy on the active roster already!  I see plenty of separation as he just beat Tre on this play and he may have the best hands over anyone on the roster right now.

 

 

An OBJ catch for sure!  Get that man a watch. ?

[Prickly Pete]

Zay Jones is useless... M ight be worthwhile to give Williams a shot.

[billsredneck1]

22 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

 

From strictly a talent standpoint, my Bills WR group looks like this:

 

Brown

Beasley

Roberts

McKenzie

Foster

Duke

 

I know Zay has been working hard on ST, though...

imo, i think roberts should be the return man and mckenzie should be the healthy scratch. we need to launch an offensive and put our foot(s) on their throats for 4 qtrs, or it could be a trap game. they won't take zay out so...anyway, i think we need to get foster a couple of bombs while they're doubling brown and use duke in the redzone. we need to be fresh in our attacks and hopefully remain opponent specific.

Edited September 19, 2019 by billsredneck1

[Capco]

22 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think you just like tall men.

 

"The most beautiful girl or woman in the world would be a matter of indifference to me, but tall soldiers?  They are my weakness."

 

-Frederick I of Prussia

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

If a team wants to sign him they make a contract offer to his agent. The agent informs the player and usually the team he is on the PS of. That team can then make any contract offer they want to him, to match, for more or for less. The player and agent then decide which one they will sign.

 

The PS team he’s on obviously knows he must be on 53 and they must release another player to sign him so that is always a big factor. 

 

 

I remember when Buddy Nix tricked the Cowboys into releasing Scott Chandler by trying to poach Martin Rucker off of their practice squad.

 

Buddy was a witch here on TSW!

[Alphadawg7]

15 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

 

But you do!

 

Prove it.

[Playoffs?]

I’d consider cutting Kroft and bringing up Duke at this point..

[Kelly the Dog]

32 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I remember when Buddy Nix tricked the Cowboys into releasing Scott Chandler by trying to poach Martin Rucker off of their practice squad.

 

Buddy was a witch here on TSW!

I never fell for that story. What if they didn't do what he imagined they would do. He probably just needed a TE badly, didn't we always, and thought either one of them would be better than we had.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Capco said:

 

"The most beautiful girl or woman in the world would be a matter of indifference to me, but tall soldiers?  They are my weakness."

 

-Frederick I of Prussia

 

Are you hitting on me?

[BADOLBILZ]

40 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I never fell for that story. What if they didn't do what he imagined they would do. He probably just needed a TE badly, didn't we always, and thought either one of them would be better than we had.

 

 

As with most GM/HC combos we've had there was a vocal faction quick to adopt unlikely stories like that as fact.

[Dopey]

18 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Lmao.  Show me anything in 2019 that proves any criticism I said about Zay wrong.  Anything, and I will never mention him again.

 

Hint:  You can’t.

 

Don't know if you will count this as anything at all, but as Dopey mentioned somewhere else, I caught a nice pass that switched the field from our 35 to the Jets 47. It gave us a 1st down and this was on our game winning drive. Without that catch we may not score that game winning td. I was very instrumental to that game winning drive, along with my run blocking that 1st game. We're 2 games into the season and I have film as a good run blocker and the catch I referenced and you have practice squad film against a db wearing a red "do not touch" jersey. What I have done so far this season is instrumental to my team being 2-0. Is it sexy or flashy? No, but neither are my Bills, we're 2-0 and I definitely contributed to this start. And you want to change that?! What's next? You gonna show film of me missing a block? Again, seems kinda personal.

Sincerely,

Zay " I made the team" Jones

P.S. I hope you see this as something. This way you will never mention me ever again. Ever. Here's to hoping.

[Rocky Landing]

26 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Don't know if you will count this as anything at all, but as Dopey mentioned somewhere else, I caught a nice pass that switched the field from our 35 to the Jets 47. It gave us a 1st down and this was on our game winning drive. Without that catch we may not score that game winning td. I was very instrumental to that game winning drive, along with my run blocking that 1st game. We're 2 games into the season and I have film as a good run blocker and the catch I referenced and you have practice squad film against a db wearing a red "do not touch" jersey. What I have done so far this season is instrumental to my team being 2-0. Is it sexy or flashy? No, but neither are my Bills, we're 2-0 and I definitely contributed to this start. And you want to change that?! What's next? You gonna show film of me missing a block? Again, seems kinda personal.

Sincerely,

Zay " I made the team" Jones

P.S. I hope you see this as something. This way you will never mention me ever again. Ever. Here's to hoping.

Sorry Zay, good coaches, winning coaches, make adjustments all season long.

[Alphadawg7]

30 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Don't know if you will count this as anything at all, but as Dopey mentioned somewhere else, I caught a nice pass that switched the field from our 35 to the Jets 47. It gave us a 1st down and this was on our game winning drive. Without that catch we may not score that game winning td. I was very instrumental to that game winning drive, along with my run blocking that 1st game. We're 2 games into the season and I have film as a good run blocker and the catch I referenced and you have practice squad film against a db wearing a red "do not touch" jersey. What I have done so far this season is instrumental to my team being 2-0. Is it sexy or flashy? No, but neither are my Bills, we're 2-0 and I definitely contributed to this start. And you want to change that?! What's next? You gonna show film of me missing a block? Again, seems kinda personal.

Sincerely,

Zay " I made the team" Jones

P.S. I hope you see this as something. This way you will never mention me ever again. Ever. Here's to hoping.

 

Lol, I said prove the criticisms wrong about Zay. All you did was very poorly try and validate minimal contributions and even stooped to trying discredit a PS player to somehow form another excuse for Zay.  Now I’ve seen it all, using a PS player play to somehow validate and excuse Zay.

 

Fail.  All good, but wow this was a poor attempt.  Let me know when you can PROVE the critics wrong.  

 

PS:  There a LOT more people on this side of the fence than yours.  I wonder why... 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[John from Riverside]

My biggest problem with Zay (and I cant shake it as hard as I try) I feel like we were sold one thing and got something else

 

I thought I was getting a big strong possession receiver that caught everything within his catch radius and had flypaper hands......

 

What we got was not that.....

 

Yes he has gotten better every year

Yes he can block

 

But jesus it looks like he bobbles every pass thrown to him IF he catches it......he doesnt dig out poorly thrown balls....he drops passes that hit him right in the hands....

 

Were it not for his draft position I think Zay would be gone by now...and I think when we draft a 1st round WR next year he WILL be gone......

 

I just dont see Duke dropping balls.....he looks like he catches everything.....and he ALSO blocks

[Dopey]

32 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Sorry Zay, good coaches, winning coaches, make adjustments all season long.

You really missed the reason for my post. If I'm replaced by Duke I won't cry, but I'll keep working on my craft and hope for the best. If you read my post I was hoping someone would never mention me ever again, as promised. 

[Rocky Landing]

18 minutes ago, Dopey said:

You really missed the reason for my post. If I'm replaced by Duke I won't cry, but I'll keep working on my craft and hope for the best. If you read my post I was hoping someone would never mention me ever again, as promised. 

Don't count on it...

[billsfan1959]

18 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

And BTW unless Ive missed something, the only drops Ive see by either Jones or Foster were both poorly thrown balls.

I went back and looked at every target to Jones in the first two games. I don't have a problem with him dropping passes as the ones he didn't catch were either uncatchable or would have been difficult catches - so, I agree with you on that point. Here are the targets to Jones through the first 2 weeks:

 

 

What I can't figure out is why there appears to be no chemistry between Allen and Jones (the timing between them always seems to be off) even though this is their second year together, yet, Allen seems to have it with Beasley and Brown? 

 

Hopefully it gets better!

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

5 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I went back and looked at every target to Jones in the first two games. I don't have a problem with him dropping passes as the ones he didn't catch were either uncatchable or would have been difficult catches - so, I agree with you on that point. Here are the targets to Jones through the first 2 weeks:

 

 

What I can't figure out is why there appears to be no chemistry between Allen and Jones (the timing between them always seems to be off) even though this is their second year together, yet, Allen seems to have it with Beasley and Brown? 

 

Hopefully it gets better!

 

 

 

 

Nice work here.  If that is truly all the targets - he has caught the ones that got to him on time.  1 over throw in double coverage, 1 batted pass when he was wide open, 1 slant pass behind him on a blitz, 1 slant pass he was held and the throw was not on target, and the throw to the end zone that is the argument.

 

None are as bad as the drop by Foster.

[formerlyofCtown]

34 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I went back and looked at every target to Jones in the first two games. I don't have a problem with him dropping passes as the ones he didn't catch were either uncatchable or would have been difficult catches - so, I agree with you on that point. Here are the targets to Jones through the first 2 weeks:

 

 

What I can't figure out is why there appears to be no chemistry between Allen and Jones (the timing between them always seems to be off) even though this is their second year together, yet, Allen seems to have it with Beasley and Brown? 

 

Hopefully it gets better!

 

 

I saw one I would like to have seen him grab.  I appreciate the way he laid out for the one pass in the EZ.

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said:

I went back and looked at every target to Jones in the first two games. I don't have a problem with him dropping passes as the ones he didn't catch were either uncatchable or would have been difficult catches - so, I agree with you on that point. Here are the targets to Jones through the first 2 weeks:

 

 

What I can't figure out is why there appears to be no chemistry between Allen and Jones (the timing between them always seems to be off) even though this is their second year together, yet, Allen seems to have it with Beasley and Brown? 

 

Hopefully it gets better!

 

 

Thanks for the video. 

[x-BillzeBubba]

maybe Duke should move to TE? 6'3 225lbs...

[SoCal Deek]

What SHOULD be happening in Week 3 is the opponents should’ve now seen enough film to focus heavily on shutting down Beasley and Brown. That means Zay SHOULD be able to get open and have a big day on Sunday. We’ll see. No excuses left now.

[Dopey]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Lol, I said prove the criticisms wrong about Zay. All you did was very poorly try and validate minimal contributions and even stooped to trying discredit a PS player to somehow form another excuse for Zay.  Now I’ve seen it all, using a PS player play to somehow validate and excuse Zay.

 

Fail.  All good, but wow this was a poor attempt.  Let me know when you can PROVE the critics wrong.  

 

PS:  There a LOT more people on this side of the fence than yours.  I wonder why... 

 

Quote:   "  Lmao.  Show me anything in 2019 that proves any criticism I said about Zay wrong.  Anything, and I will never mention him again.

 

Hint:  You can’t."

 

There's no way I am discrediting Duke, no matter how you try and twist it. If Duke makes the 53, I'm rooting for him, hard. You're the one discrediting someone. I merely pointed out that Zay has film in 2 games against starting NFL competition with major contributions this year. You did say 2019. You put up a clip of a practice squad player going 1 on 1 vs a db in a no contact jersey, in a controlled environment and it's 1 play(ok, you showed a 2nd). You then poo-poo Zay's contributions against NFL starters as minimal. Do you not agree that catch on the game winning drive against the Jets was crucial? Do you not agree his run blocking was helpful to our running game in the two games? Probably not, cuz it's Zay. Minimizing his contributions really makes it look like you have an agenda towards Zay. I'm not trying to prove critics wrong. I have no problem with a disagreement, we all have opinions. I was just so hopeful you would see this as anything and leave it alone, like you said. I tried.  Billsfan1959 posted a clip showing contributions by Zay(not the reason he posted the clip) in only two games, against NFL starters. It may not be as many as you want, but we have better options out there in Brown and Beasley and it's only two games. I can show you as many bad plays this year by Beasley as Zay, yet you continue to harp on Zay. Zay hasn't done anything in 2019 to warrant him being demoted yet and apparently Duke hasn't done enough to replace him or even Foster yet.

My point is the horse is dead. He's in the glue factory already. If you really have no agenda towards Zay and him proving your BOLD prediction wrong, stop beating the horse. Your prediction, like the horse has been laid to rest. I'm gonna try really hard to not get into this again. We just don't agree and that's more than fine, it's just been going on and on and on and... By the way, other than the Zay thing, I like you as a poster. Hope you like beer. GO BILLS and PEACE BROTHER!!

[Seoulofstone]

11 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

My biggest problem with Zay (and I cant shake it as hard as I try) I feel like we were sold one thing and got something else

 

I thought I was getting a big strong possession receiver that caught everything within his catch radius and had flypaper hands......

 

What we got was not that.....

 

Yes he has gotten better every year

Yes he can block

 

But jesus it looks like he bobbles every pass thrown to him IF he catches it......he doesnt dig out poorly thrown balls....he drops passes that hit him right in the hands....

 

Were it not for his draft position I think Zay would be gone by now...and I think when we draft a 1st round WR next year he WILL be gone......

 

I just dont see Duke dropping balls.....he looks like he catches everything.....and he ALSO blocks

 

 Perception is a funny thing though isn't it? The Panthers who drafted Curtis Samuel in the same draft as Zay maybe ten slots later. In his career Samuel has 750 yards and five touchdowns. Zay had 1000 and 9 TDs. All preseason Curtis was being hyped and on the Panthers forum people love him and truly believe Samuel will be fantastic. He's explosive but it's all projected.

  Now I won't argue that Zay doesn't look convincing, If you want to compare him to Juju, Kupp or Godwin. Or that he's suffered from drops. Or that he has excelled.for the Bills. But he isn't a bust.

[Capco]

14 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Are you hitting on me?

 

You come here often?

[starrymessenger]

I can see how managing this WR corps presents the Bills with difficult decisions and I wouldn't be surprised if they opt to stay the course for the time being. Zay has underperformed relative to expectations but as others have noted he may be a serviceable # 3 with ST utility albeit probably with limited upside. Guys like that have a place on an NFL roster. Foster blows hot and stone cold. Duke brings some impressive attributes to the table but nobody yet knows how well (or not) they translate against starting calibre LBs and DBs. They are all pretty much of equivalent value for now. So I think the Bills probably stay the course at this time (assuming Kroft isn't going to miss significant time).

Edited September 20, 2019 by starrymessenger

[Punching Bag]

On 9/18/2019 at 8:47 PM, Augie said:

 

It takes him about 13 games to get going??? 

 

I’ve always been a slow starter, but I finish with a whimper! 

 

Well last year LeSean McCoy had a talking with him when he was cut and promoted to practice squad which seemed to make a difference.

This year McCoy is gone and it may affected his attitude. 

[Shaw66]

10 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

I went back and looked at every target to Jones in the first two games. I don't have a problem with him dropping passes as the ones he didn't catch were either uncatchable or would have been difficult catches - so, I agree with you on that point. Here are the targets to Jones through the first 2 weeks:

 

 

What I can't figure out is why there appears to be no chemistry between Allen and Jones (the timing between them always seems to be off) even though this is their second year together, yet, Allen seems to have it with Beasley and Brown? 

 

Hopefully it gets better!

 

 

Thanks for doing this. If you watch his body language it sure looks like HE thinks he should have caught a couple of these.

 

As for chemistry, it looks to me like he is surprised how fast the ball gets to him on shorter passes.   that problem and he and Josh are working on it.  You'd think Zay would be used to it by now, but Zay wasnt runnimg those little underneath routes much last season. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

We better be careful, looks like the Pats are in the market now for a WR with the Brown cut.

[TPS]

I imagine the Pats are going to be sniffing around some PS for a WR...

[Rocky Landing]

10 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

I went back and looked at every target to Jones in the first two games. I don't have a problem with him dropping passes as the ones he didn't catch were either uncatchable or would have been difficult catches - so, I agree with you on that point. Here are the targets to Jones through the first 2 weeks:

 

 

What I can't figure out is why there appears to be no chemistry between Allen and Jones (the timing between them always seems to be off) even though this is their second year together, yet, Allen seems to have it with Beasley and Brown? 

 

Hopefully it gets better!

 

 

I think this video really highlights the biggest problem with Zay: His limited catch radius. One of the misses in the end zone, and the ball that was thrown slightly behind him would have been caught by a WR with a larger radius. And, two of his catches would have been caught without having to fall down to secure them, giving a better receiver a chance at YAC. That is my honest opinion, although I admit that my opinion has become colored with frustration.

[StHustle]

12 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

We better be careful, looks like the Pats are in the market now for a WR with the Brown cut.

 

12 minutes ago, TPS said:

I imagine the Pats are going to be sniffing around some PS for a WR...

 

They weren't looking for a WR before they signed Brown but then the idiots traded away Demaryius Thomas so yeah this could be accurate. They need to put Kroft on IR and call up Duke ASAP.