Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-Season Game 1

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

What happened to the 

 

lets not get overexcited about preseason football ? ???

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

What happened to the 

 

lets not get overexcited about preseason football ? ???

 

 

 

Passe. We must now pick every nit.

 

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

For the record, this post was directed to a poster that legitimately hadn't watched the game and was genuinely asking a question.

 

Dang it, I knew it might have been taken the wrong way.  I was also directing it at that poster and agreeing with you.

[Royale with Cheese]

18 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

More brilliance.  I guess Josh has to catch his passes as well as kick FG's. 

 

Jones makes what should have been an easy reception and Josh finishes 7-11 (63.6%) for 84 yards (7.6 YPA) and a TD. 

 

 

He opened his hips up after he bungled the catch and started flailing for the ball. 

 

Yes...after the drop.  Cuddy was stating that the throw was the reason he had to open his hips up.  As you can see in the still photo at first contact with the ball,  if he doesn't bobble it...hip would never have to open up.

[ddaryl]

18 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

What happened to the 

 

lets not get overexcited about preseason football ? ???

 

 

 

There's always a few who over think preseason.. 1st preseason game no real game plan and a few series is not enough to get into a rhythm or dust off some rust for a QB....  or an Offense...... Way too many nuances/continuity to continue to work out for a 2nd year O

Edited August 9, 2019 by ddaryl

[TheFunPolice]

Zay should have caught that ball and Josh should have hit him with a cleaner pass on the curl route the drive before. I give Zay a break because the sun was suddenly right in his eyes when he made his cut. 

 

That's 2 more completions (probably more because the curl route would have extended a drive) and possibly a TD. 

 

Plays are right there to be made, which is encouraging to me. They aren't way off. 

 

Still, I am worried about Allen. I am hopeful, I am encouraged, but I still am not sold at all. 

[HeHateMe]

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Allen is never going to be a top completion % guy, IMO. He just isn't the most accurate QB and likes to take his low % shots down the field, but will make up for the misses with the big plays he hits down the field and his athletic ability, IMO. He really is a unique QB. 

This^

 

He is going to be more Donovan McNabb than Tom Brady.

 

He just needs to take the check-downs a bit more and actually start connecting on these deep balls that he loves to toss.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I didn’t get to watch the game but I kept up on the updates. 

 

I was excited and happy the team played well enough to win. 

 

 

Who gameplays 17 passing plays for Josh out of the gate?

 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Well you can't compare fairly completion percentages from the 80's to today's NFL though.

You can compare completion percentages relative to their peers, however. 

 

That’s really not the point though. For whatever reason,  60% has become some sort of barometer and it’s completely arbitrary.

 

Additionally, Allen throws the most low percentage passes in the league. And for good reason; because he can and teams have to respect that. 

1 hour ago, Joe Miner said:

Good night:  Bills fans 

 

Bad night: The 2 or 3 trolls in this thread.

Outstanding!

[Green Lightning]

6 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

 

QBs also stand at different intervals behind the QB.

 

All I am saying is that Bodine has been playing almost exclusively with Allen for the last 40 weeks.  For there to me a snap issue when they was a change, is not unexpected.

 

Just wait till Morse gets back in and there are snapping issues.  100% there will be.  There was already issues in TC with Morse and Allen.

There is no possible defense for Bodine's over the head snap. He was likely concentrating on the next DT that was going to push him back into the QB.

[TheFunPolice]

completion % is totally over-rated. 

 

trent edwards is the perfect example of this, with his typical statline of 17/19 for 154 yards, no TD and 13 points scored on offense. 

 

His name became forever lowercase to me when he threw the ball away on 4th down and trotted to the sideline for his glass of warm milk. 

[Kelly the Dog]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

what? am i missing sarcasm?

 

 

Missing that as sarcasm was almost as bad as Zay missing that catch. It was a layup. 

[Misterbluesky]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Missing that as sarcasm was almost as bad as Zay missing that catch. It was a layup. 

Yet another person that didn't see the sun hit him in his face.

[Kelly the Dog]

4 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

There is no possible defense for Bodine's over the head snap. He was likely concentrating on the next DT that was going to push him back into the QB.

Barkley looked like the QB that exaggeratedly fakes the snap way over his head on a sweep play. 

[MDH]

People are going way overboard on the Zay hate. So the guy dropped a pass because he heard footsteps. It happens. It’s funny how people will excuse Allen’s bad throws as “it happens” but expect the WRs to be perfect.

 

All that hate comes from wanting Allen to look better stat wise. Who gives a crap about pre season stats? 

 

Also, theres a reason that Allen keeps looking Zay’s way - he gets open, a lot. If Allen was more accurate and Zay had better hands he’d put up big numbers. But neither of those things seem to be on the immediate horizon.

 

Zay runs solid routes, has good body control and has a knack for finding an open spot in the D. Just accept that he’s a flawed receiver otherwise but still has value. 

 

The good news is that this year Zay is #3 instead of #1.

[buffaloboyinATL]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

He ran once.  Eight yards to the first down marker.  And got out of bounds untouched.

And when a pass rusher got in completely untouched, he quickly protected himself and the ball rather than try and do too much and risk injury or turn over.  

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, MDH said:

People are going way overboard on the Zay hate. So the guy dropped a pass because he heard footsteps. It happens. It’s funny how people will excuse Allen’s bad throws as “it happens” but expect the WRs to be perfect.

 

All that hate comes from wanting Allen to look better stat wise. Who gives a crap about pre season stats? 

 

Also, theres a reason that Allen keeps looking Zay’s way - he gets open, a lot. If Allen was more accurate and Zay had better hands he’d put up big numbers. But neither of those things seem to be on the immediate horizon.

 

Zay runs solid routes, has good body control and has a knack for finding an open spot in the D. Just accept that he’s a flawed receiver otherwise but still has value. 

 

The good news is that this year Zay is #3 instead of #1.

 

I really think the criticism that Zay Jones is facing today is more due to his history of inconsistency and bad hands, more than it has to do with Allen's stats.

 

I like Zay Jones.  I think he's better than what he's shown since he's been here.  But the fact remains that he has dropped a lot of passes and, unfortunately, seems to have picked up where he left off.

 

I think he'll be fine; but I don't think anyone can ever count on any semblance of consistency from the kid.

[Chandler#81]

5 minutes ago, MDH said:

People are going way overboard on the Zay hate. So the guy dropped a pass because he heard footsteps. It happens. It’s funny how people will excuse Allen’s bad throws as “it happens” but expect the WRs to be perfect.

 

All that hate comes from wanting Allen to look better stat wise. Who gives a crap about pre season stats? 

 

Also, theres a reason that Allen keeps looking Zay’s way - he gets open, a lot. If Allen was more accurate and Zay had better hands he’d put up big numbers. But neither of those things seem to be on the immediate horizon.

 

Zay runs solid routes, has good body control and has a knack for finding an open spot in the D. Just accept that he’s a flawed receiver otherwise but still has value. 

 

The good news is that this year Zay is #3 instead of #1.

 I think some of the Hate is misplaced confusion. How could Zay set All Time NCAA records for catching nearly everything thrown his way, then develop bricks for hands. The step up to the pros is one thing, but it’s zero excuse for a 3rd year player. Even for an average college WR.

[Warcodered]

6 minutes ago, MDH said:

People are going way overboard on the Zay hate. So the guy dropped a pass because he heard footsteps. It happens. It’s funny how people will excuse Allen’s bad throws as “it happens” but expect the WRs to be perfect.

 

All that hate comes from wanting Allen to look better stat wise. Who gives a crap about pre season stats? 

 

Also, theres a reason that Allen keeps looking Zay’s way - he gets open, a lot. If Allen was more accurate and Zay had better hands he’d put up big numbers. But neither of those things seem to be on the immediate horizon.

 

Zay runs solid routes, has good body control and has a knack for finding an open spot in the D. Just accept that he’s a flawed receiver otherwise but still has value. 

 

The good news is that this year Zay is #3 instead of #1.

I mean if your taking from the large section of this thread saying he should of caught that one pass that's more a reaction to a couple of people blaming Allen for a throw that was probably one of his better ones last night.

[Bangarang]

15 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

His name became forever lowercase to me when he threw the ball away on 4th down and trotted to the sideline for his glass of warm milk. 

 

I can’t remember if it happened more than once but I distinctly remember this happening against he Packers. It was 4th and 2 or 3 in the final minute of the game. He was flushed out of the pocket and legit tossed it out of bounds. So embarrassing go watch

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

14 minutes ago, MDH said:

People are going way overboard on the Zay hate. So the guy dropped a pass because he heard footsteps. It happens. It’s funny how people will excuse Allen’s bad throws as “it happens” but expect the WRs to be perfect.

 

All that hate comes from wanting Allen to look better stat wise. Who gives a crap about pre season stats? 

 

Also, theres a reason that Allen keeps looking Zay’s way - he gets open, a lot. If Allen was more accurate and Zay had better hands he’d put up big numbers. But neither of those things seem to be on the immediate horizon.

 

Zay runs solid routes, has good body control and has a knack for finding an open spot in the D. Just accept that he’s a flawed receiver otherwise but still has value. 

 

The good news is that this year Zay is #3 instead of #1.

 

If you're a professional wide receiver and the ball hits you in the hands, you have to catch it.

 

Otherwise, what's the point?

 

[Stank_Nasty]

13 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I really think the criticism that Zay Jones is facing today is more due to his history of inconsistency and bad hands, more than it has to do with Allen's stats.

 

I like Zay Jones.  I think he's better than what he's shown since he's been here.  But the fact remains that he has dropped a lot of passes and, unfortunately, seems to have picked up where he left off.

 

I think he'll be fine; but I don't think anyone can ever count on any semblance of consistency from the kid.

I have no clue how you can put those 2 statements together. lol....

 

and i'm not trying to be a jerk but how may easy passes does he have to drop before he's not better than what he's shown...… coming into year 3 now.

[Lurker]

17 minutes ago, MDH said:

The good news is that this year Zay is #3 instead of #1.

 

Good perspective to take.    

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I have no clue how you can put those 2 statements together. lol....

 

and i'm not trying to be a jerk but how may easy passes does he have to drop before he's not better than what he's shown...… coming into year 3 now.

 

I just think the expectations need to be realistic.  He's never going to catch 100% of his targets; but he'll get big gains on some of the ones he does catch. 

 

The good thing is that he's clearly not a #1 in anyone's eyes.  If he can be a good #3, I'm okay with that, just as long as his mistakes/drops don't outweigh his positive contributions.

 

I know it's year three,  but it's year one of having a full season with a decent QB throwing him passes.

[MDH]

12 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

If you're a professional wide receiver and the ball hits you in the hands, you have to catch it.

 

Otherwise, what's the point?

 

 

I hear you  but he doesn’t drop many where it’s that cut and dry. He drops contested balls or when it’s a “bang bang” play or a Safety is about to lay the wood on him.

 

I also think some of the drops last season (by the team, not just Zay) is because they’re just not used to how quickly the ball gets on them when Allen throws it. They’re likely not used to how hard it hits their hands either. I’d expect a lower drop rate from the WRs who were on the team last year, and perhaps a higher drop rate than normal from Brown and Beasley as they’re not used to it yet.

[Stank_Nasty]

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I just think the expectations need to be realistic.  He's never going to catch 100% of his targets; but he'll get big gains on some of the ones he does catch. 

 

The good thing is that he's clearly not a #1 in anyone's eyes.  If he can be a good #3, I'm okay with that, just as long as his mistakes/drops don't outweigh his positive contributions.

 

I know it's year three,  but it's year one of having a full season with a decent QB throwing him passes.

all fair... here's my thing though. its the types of passes he drops. just inexcusable. there are plenty of 3's not screwing the pooch like that. 

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, MDH said:

 

I hear you  but he doesn’t drop many where it’s that cut and dry. He drops contested balls or when it’s a “bang bang” play or a Safety is about to lay the wood on him.

 

I also think some of the drops last season (by the team, not just Zay) is because they’re just not used to how quickly the ball gets on them when Allen throws it. They’re likely not used to how hard it hits their hands either. I’d expect a lower drop rate from the WRs who were on the team last year, and perhaps a higher drop rate than normal from Brown and Beasley as they’re not used to it yet.

He often bobbles easy ones he does catch. He often goes to the ground before he has to to make sure he catches it, therefore eliminating any chance for YAC and does this just short of first down marker. 

[WideNine]

17 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

If you're a professional wide receiver and the ball hits you in the hands, you have to catch it.

 

Otherwise, what's the point?

 

 

This was my contention last year when everyone was yapping about Allen's ball placement and KB drops.

 

OBD finally jettisoned KB and he was picked up by KC where he picked up where he left off -  dropping catchable passes from miracle Mahomes. Good receivers make good quarterbacks look even better, bad receivers drop catchable balls.

 

OBD has to get better about cutting ties with their own hand-picked players instead of working so hard to turn a miss into something else. Especially if it becomes clear that there may be better options fighting for a roster spot.

 

Zay does a good job in practice, but is inconsistent with drive-killing drops in live games.... we are going on year 3 and it seems like a theme. He is streaky, when we are looking for reliable.

 

 

 

 

[Helpmenow]

Harrison Phillips gets wracked, that is the ?

[MDH]

9 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

He often bobbles easy ones he does catch. He often goes to the ground before he has to to make sure he catches it, therefore eliminating any chance for YAC and does this just short of first down marker. 

 

Yep, he absolutely does those things.

 

Im not absolving Jones, he’s a flawed product. Personally, I’d rather have a guy who gets open consistently  and drops a couple than a guy who struggles to get open with great hands. I’m guessing that’s where the coaching staff is at this point too. 

 

Once the Bills have better options in the WR room Zay will be gone if he hasn’t improved.

[Gugny]

15 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

all fair... here's my thing though. its the types of passes he drops. just inexcusable. there are plenty of 3's not screwing the pooch like that. 

 

Okay, now you're just being a jerk. 

 

Just kidding.

 

There is no doubt that you're right.  In the hands.  Between the numbers.  Inexcusable and inexplicable drops.  I don't know what it is about the guy ... I just think he can be better.  I don't know if I feel like he's an underdog and that's why I'm pulling for him.  I just like him and hope he stops dropping ***** passes.

[VW82]

52 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

If you're a professional wide receiver and the ball hits you in the hands, you have to catch it.

 

Otherwise, what's the point?

 

 

If you're a professional quarterback and your receiver gets open you have to be accurate with the football.

 

Otherwise, what's the point?

 

I think Allen and Jones are young players with a lot of promise who have some glaring weaknesses. Hopefully they can overcome their shortcomings and become good players.

[Rocket94]

29 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

This was my contention last year when everyone was yapping about Allen's ball placement and KB drops.

 

OBD finally jettisoned KB and he was picked up by KC where he picked up where he left off -  dropping catchable passes from miracle Mahomes. Good receivers make good quarterbacks look even better, bad receivers drop catchable balls.

 

OBD has to get better about cutting ties with their own hand-picked players instead of working so hard to turn a miss into something else. Especially if it becomes clear that there may be better options fighting for a roster spot.

 

Zay does a good job in practice, but is inconsistent with drive-killing drops in live games.... we are going on year 3 and it seems like a theme. He is streaky, when we are looking for reliable.

 

 

 

 

The Bills are surely going to address the problem in the 2020 draft...if not sooner. You can only hide for so long.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Rocket94

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

If you're a professional quarterback and your receiver gets open you have to be accurate with the football.

 

Otherwise, what's the point?

 

I think Allen and Jones are young players with a lot of promise who have some glaring weaknesses. Hopefully they can overcome their shortcomings and become good players.

 

That pass was perfect. You'll see when you actually, you know, WATCH THE GAME.

 

[VW82]

32 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

That pass was perfect. You'll see when you actually, you know, WATCH THE GAME.

 

 

I wasn't referring to the pass or the drop, but rather their careers to date. It sounds like I'm going to see a game where Zay dropped a ball and Allen missed a couple of receivers who were open (just going by what others have written). These are exactly the two areas of weakness most discussed. I think it's fair to lump them in the same boat at this stage as promising young players with some areas that need to be cleaned up. It's less fair to single one out in order to praise the other. They both have issues.

Edited August 9, 2019 by VW82

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

And when a pass rusher got in completely untouched, he quickly protected himself and the ball rather than try and do too much and risk injury or turn over.  

 

 

...good call bud....despite it being pre-season, it's a step in the right direction versus last year IMO........

[Beast]

The message was sent to Yeldon. Honestly, that was a great strip by the defender. The psychology of sitting Yeldon wasn’t just a message to him, it was a message to all on the team. I’m glad McDermott did that.

[transplantbillsfan]

Good stuff.

 

I disagree on your Singletary assessment, though.  His numbers weren't great, but I thought it was pretty clear the kid has fantastic vision (I think Tasker mentioned Beane, in scouting him in college, said he had "elite vision") that resulted in extra yards where none should have come.

 

Yeah, when you look at our RBs, it's Wade's numbers that pop out after game 1, but Singletary was the RB who impressed me most.

 

Side note about Wade.  There was nothing great in his TD run, though he showed he has speed, but I want to watch Wade get more carries in the upcoming preseason games to see how he runs in traffic.

 

Agree about McKenzie.  I think Ray Ray is the odd man out.

[Doc]

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

Good stuff.

 

I disagree on your Singletary assessment, though.  His numbers weren't great, but I thought it was pretty clear the kid has fantastic vision (I think Tasker mentioned Beane, in scouting him in college, said he had "elite vision") that resulted in extra yards where none should have come.

 

Yeah, when you look at our RBs, it's Wade's numbers that pop out after game 1, but Singletary was the RB who impressed me most.

 

Side note about Wade.  There was nothing great in his TD run, though he showed he has speed, but I want to watch Wade get more carries in the upcoming preseason games to see how he runs in traffic.

 

Agree about McKenzie.  I think Ray Ray is the odd man out.

 

If he ran it the way it was called, it was a great show of speed.  If it wasn't called that way, it possibly showed great vision.   He'll need to get more touches to confirm.

[Kelly the Dog]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

If he ran it the way it was called, it was a great show of speed.  If it wasn't called that way, it possibly showed great vision.   He'll need to get more touches to confirm.

It was actually better than that. He is just learning the game, but at some point the coaches told him to read the defense pre-snap and if a play is called to one side and they seem to be overplaying it you may want to cut it back to the opposite side of the call. He read it that way and said after the game that he knew he was going to take it right before the snap. He did, made a guy miss and then showed the speed. Pretty good for your first carry.