Is it time to give up future assets, to stack our deck for a SB run?

[c-troop]

We should gut the Falcons for picks ?

[Pete]

Patience grasshopper.  We have $30 million in cap space, could create much more easily if we wanted, and we have a man with a plan at charge.  It's only April.  There will be many additions to roster.  Rock on Beane

Edited April 29, 2019 by Pete

[golfball323]

It's still my feeling that his is the 3rd year of a four year plan.

 

Two years of a tear down and two years to rebuild. Giving up a first will not happen until we are into the last phase of year 4.

[PromoTheRobot]

No. Rarely a good strategy anyway.

Edited April 29, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[wagon127]

The bills have already loaded up on a lot of great talent. I am not mortgaging the future, until I see what this group of guys are capable of. There is no rush to make those kind of moves this year.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

12 hours ago, LEBills said:

It almost feels unthinkable posing this question. And we all hate giving up draft picks. But I had to watch the Eagles win a Super Bowl last year from the confines of South Jersey...

 

They has a second year QB who played out of his mind, bolstered by a team that Howie Roseman crammed with talent by giving away players and draft picks for upgrades at positions of weakness. (You can read some of the highlights here: http://www.espn.com/blog/philadelphia-eagles/post/_/id/24219/the-seven-days-that-transformed-eagles-into-super-bowl-contenders)

 

We are at the same point in a similar rebuild. And so I ask the question, is it an opportunity for us? 

 

We have a supposedly weak schedule, a budding 2nd year QB that gives us great cap flexibility and not that many holes to fill. Here are some moves I think could help us mirror the Eagles success:

 

1. Trade for Jadeveon Clowney. Houston’s lack of OLine talent could feed into our favor. Plus it seems Houston doesn’t want to meet the contract Clowney’s side wants. Trade them Dawkins and a 2nd for Clowney and a 6th?

 

2. Trade a 6th for Cameron Brate. TB has OJ Howard starting and are paying Brate, a backup TE a pretty penny. He would immediately be a very good pass catching TE for us and their is no guaranteed money on his contract after this year. He had a drop off in production last year as he played all 2018 with a hip injury but should be cleared by training camp.

 

3. Trade our first for AJ Green. The Bengals are entering a rebuild and having a second 1st round pick to maneuver around and get their top QB in 2020 may be too much for them to say no to.

 

I know it may seem surreal to think about us making that type of jump, but if the Eagles could do it would it be that crazy to think we could pull off something similar?

 

I could see upgrading DE. Not sure Clowney is the one to go after. He’s going to command a contract that will be hard to live up to. 

[nedboy7]

9 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Lets see how the season goes first.

 

 

 

Trade Allen ??? Jackson will be lucky to become a decent QB ... Please stop.

 

 

 

Its a joke bro. Please get a grip. 

[MAJBobby]

12 hours ago, LEBills said:

It almost feels unthinkable posing this question. And we all hate giving up draft picks. But I had to watch the Eagles win a Super Bowl last year from the confines of South Jersey...

 

They has a second year QB who played out of his mind, bolstered by a team that Howie Roseman crammed with talent by giving away players and draft picks for upgrades at positions of weakness. (You can read some of the highlights here: http://www.espn.com/blog/philadelphia-eagles/post/_/id/24219/the-seven-days-that-transformed-eagles-into-super-bowl-contenders)

 

We are at the same point in a similar rebuild. And so I ask the question, is it an opportunity for us? 

 

We have a supposedly weak schedule, a budding 2nd year QB that gives us great cap flexibility and not that many holes to fill. Here are some moves I think could help us mirror the Eagles success:

 

1. Trade for Jadeveon Clowney. Houston’s lack of OLine talent could feed into our favor. Plus it seems Houston doesn’t want to meet the contract Clowney’s side wants. Trade them Dawkins and a 2nd for Clowney and a 6th?

 

2. Trade a 6th for Cameron Brate. TB has OJ Howard starting and are paying Brate, a backup TE a pretty penny. He would immediately be a very good pass catching TE for us and their is no guaranteed money on his contract after this year. He had a drop off in production last year as he played all 2018 with a hip injury but should be cleared by training camp.

 

3. Trade our first for AJ Green. The Bengals are entering a rebuild and having a second 1st round pick to maneuver around and get their top QB in 2020 may be too much for them to say no to.

 

I know it may seem surreal to think about us making that type of jump, but if the Eagles could do it would it be that crazy to think we could pull off something similar?

 

Jesus no. Let’s just wait and see what Josh Allen looks like as a starter in second year with a full offseason as starter under his belt. 

 

I want to see if he progresses first before I advocate start selling off future assets. 

[Shaw66]

12 hours ago, Steve Billieve said:

No

I will add to that.  No.

 

McBeane are not about making a wild dash to win a Super Bowl followed by a decline. They're building to get on top and stay on top.  You can't stay on top mortgaging your future.  

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Is it?  I dunno Barley.  It seems to me that most of the recent cellar-to-stellar turn arounds have featured the new coaches and GM keeping and utilizing the talent from the previous regime with a handful of strategic trades or non-signings, not grabbing a broom and sweeping it all out the door.  I'm hoping you're right, but I can't think of examples.

 

It used to be more common - but that was before the salary cap and FA, when more homegrown key players could be kept on a team for longer.  That's the real problem - you get your great players and in 4-5 years you got to get out the checkbook and show them the winning or they're gone

 

Whatever the situation, I agree with @SoCal Deek that it's too soon.  We have promising pieces in place, but there are too many unknowns to tell whether we're only a couple of pieces away - whether the OL will gel and allow a good run game, whether Allen will take that needed step as a passer, whether this round of WR-corps rehab will pan out better than the two previous, and whether the flaws in the D that allow half of our losses to be ugly blowouts have been fixed.

 

 

 

 

 

That’s really not what I mean. I’m not advocating for building through free agency, although the Bills just made a lot of fairly expensive moves there already.  Honestly more of those than I would’ve liked.  What I’ve seen - and would advocate for - is making one splash move.  A pick for player trade, big draft trade up next season or big FA signing for a difference maker at a position of need. I do not have a problem waiting until next season to do that.  But if the opportunity presented itself I’d sure be happy to see the Bills jump at it. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by BarleyNY

[Chuck Wagon]

Well, first off, AJ Green and Brate aren't available for trade, this isn't Madden.

 

Second, while I fully support the idea of loading up when you have a rookie QB, we aren't there yet.  We have a mountain of cap space next summer too and a roster full of questions.  We need to see how many answers we have already.  Ultimately it boils down to Allen, if he proves himself it will dramatically increase our bargaining power with FAs.  I'm fine signing guys with the money we have this year, giving away future assets is a terrible idea.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Saith George Allen, "The future is now."  The current scheme doesn't equate.  And we'll likely be better for it in the long run.

[Toesy]

I would prefer the NE method-have a team that is always in the running year after year and if you get lucky maybe you win the SB that year.

[Steve O]

almost 3 pages and no link to Jim Mora? It's time...never gets old (OP can replace playoffs with super bowl)

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

10 hours ago, Circlethewagon8404 said:

i'm pretty sure his post was just sarcasm.  At least I hope so

 

i hope 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

2 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Its a joke bro. Please get a grip. 

 

Sorry, thought it was serious, ya never know on this board.

 

 

[Steve O]

8 hours ago, fansince88 said:

NO!!! Stay the course and make multiple SB runs

"Dad, let's run down this hill and @#$% one of those cows" the young bull said.

The old bull replied "No son, let's walk down and @#$% them all."

[row_33]

Super Bowl?

 

I'd settle for 2 games in a row where the team wasn't a total  embarrassment first

 

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

16 hours ago, LEBills said:

It almost feels unthinkable posing this question. And we all hate giving up draft picks. But I had to watch the Eagles win a Super Bowl last year from the confines of South Jersey...

 

They has a second year QB who played out of his mind, bolstered by a team that Howie Roseman crammed with talent by giving away players and draft picks for upgrades at positions of weakness. (You can read some of the highlights here: http://www.espn.com/blog/philadelphia-eagles/post/_/id/24219/the-seven-days-that-transformed-eagles-into-super-bowl-contenders)

 

We are at the same point in a similar rebuild. And so I ask the question, is it an opportunity for us? 

 

We have a supposedly weak schedule, a budding 2nd year QB that gives us great cap flexibility and not that many holes to fill. Here are some moves I think could help us mirror the Eagles success:

 

1. Trade for Jadeveon Clowney. Houston’s lack of OLine talent could feed into our favor. Plus it seems Houston doesn’t want to meet the contract Clowney’s side wants. Trade them Dawkins and a 2nd for Clowney and a 6th?

 

2. Trade a 6th for Cameron Brate. TB has OJ Howard starting and are paying Brate, a backup TE a pretty penny. He would immediately be a very good pass catching TE for us and their is no guaranteed money on his contract after this year. He had a drop off in production last year as he played all 2018 with a hip injury but should be cleared by training camp.

 

3. Trade our first for AJ Green. The Bengals are entering a rebuild and having a second 1st round pick to maneuver around and get their top QB in 2020 may be too much for them to say no to.

 

I know it may seem surreal to think about us making that type of jump, but if the Eagles could do it would it be that crazy to think we could pull off something similar?

[fansince88]

1 hour ago, Steve O said:

"Dad, let's run down this hill and @#$% one of those cows" the young bull said.

The old bull replied "No son, let's walk down and @#$% them all."

Exactly how old is the young bull? He has an aweful mouth.

[LABILLBACKER]

16 hours ago, HuSeYiN_NYC said:

Clowney idea was sexy a few weeks ago...

Clowney idea today is played out... 

I agree,  the Clowney / Ansah ship may have sailed....

[DuckyBoys]

Just continue to build the way they are doing.  Next year they will have good cap space again and can add a few pieces or a big one or two.  Slow and steady til they know for sure what Josh Allen is.  They on paper shored up the line and he should have much better skill guys to start with.  Lets see if he can get close to 60% completions and up to 230 passing a game

[ProcessTruster]

no

[Watkins101]

No way this fits under the cap. 

[NoSaint]

19 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The whole premise McDermott sold the Pegulas was to build a perennial contender by gutting the team of high-cap underperformers and building the roster with draftees and "lunchpail" high-character hard-working guys.  I don't know if it's the right choice, I don't know if it's the wrong choice, but having gone this far into it I think they should "stay the course" and see how it works.

 

If we trade Dawkins, who do you see as our starting OL?

 

I don't think we want to trade a 1st for a 31 year old WR in his 9th season who has missed significant playing time 2 of the last 3 years.

 

 

 

Im going to go ahead and ask....

 

Why do you think the start of the process is the same as the end of the process? 

 

And does beane know about this rule given his interest in brown?

13 minutes ago, Watkins101 said:

No way this fits under the cap. 

 

We have 25-30m. We could do pretty much anything we dream of at this point if we really want to

[Nextmanup]

Let's try to shoot for a winning record this year and not think so much about the Superbowl.

OK?

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

21 hours ago, LEBills said:

It almost feels unthinkable posing this question. And we all hate giving up draft picks. But I had to watch the Eagles win a Super Bowl last year from the confines of South Jersey...

 

 

I know it may seem surreal to think about us making that type of jump, but if the Eagles could do it would it be that crazy to think we could pull off something similar?

 

While you were spending "last year" in your sensory deprivation chamber, the Eagles, under THIRD year and yet again injured QB were going nowhere until the backup (the one who they actually won the NFCC and SB with 2 (two) seasons ago came in (again) and go them to them playoffs...where they lost.  Going into next year, that "crammed with talent" team will struggle to win its division again.

 

 

But to answer your question, no.  This team isn't a Clowney, an AJ Green, and a backup TB TE from the SB.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[Watkins101]

21 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

Im going to go ahead and ask....

 

Why do you think the start of the process is the same as the end of the process? 

 

And does beane know about this rule given his interest in brown?

 

We have 25-30m. We could do pretty much anything we dream of at this point if we really want to

We have 30.5 million in cap space per spotrac. Minimum 4.5 million comes off for rookies. That leaves us with 26. That TE costs 7M, A J Green another 15. That leaves us with 4 M for Clowney+ any we need during the season. Clowney will likely costs 20 million at least. With that we are 16 million over, and we need to keep some money for mid season emergencies. 

[NoSaint]

7 minutes ago, Watkins101 said:

We have 30.5 million in cap space per spotrac. Minimum 4.5 million comes off for rookies. That leaves us with 26. That TE costs 7M, A J Green another 15. That leaves us with 4 M for Clowney+ any we need during the season. Clowney will likely costs 20 million at least. With that we are 16 million over, and we need to keep some money for mid season emergencies. 

 

With new contracts for any (or all) you could fit them if you wanted

[Watkins101]

13 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

With new contracts for any (or all) you could fit them if you wanted

That would be a very cheap new contract for Clowney. I've seen ideas of up to 30 Million a year for him. Reasonably, it would be more like 24 million. Obviously you can make cuts, but Beane likes to have 10 million left for the season. I'm sorry, but it's quite obvious that this won't work.

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, Watkins101 said:

That would be a very cheap new contract for Clowney. I've seen ideas of up to 30 Million a year for him. Reasonably, it would be more like 24 million. Obviously you can make cuts, but Beane likes to have 10 million left for the season. I'm sorry, but it's quite obvious that this won't work.

 

A 20m signing bonus counts 4m against the cap. Just for instance.

[Nihilarian]

Forget those players mentioned.

 

I'd rather see the Bills trade a late round 2020 pick for Gerald McCoy to the Bucs to stop the run better. Then sign Ziggy Ansah (if he is fully healthy) to help with the pass rush rotation. 

 

As far as the offense goes I'd rather trade with the Vikes for TE Kyle Rudolph. Otherwise I'd like to see what the five new additions the Bills already have will do for the 2019 Bills WR corps.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

23 hours ago, LEBills said:

It almost feels unthinkable posing this question. And we all hate giving up draft picks. But I had to watch the Eagles win a Super Bowl last year from the confines of South Jersey...

 

They has a second year QB who played out of his mind, bolstered by a team that Howie Roseman crammed with talent by giving away players and draft picks for upgrades at positions of weakness. (You can read some of the highlights here: http://www.espn.com/blog/philadelphia-eagles/post/_/id/24219/the-seven-days-that-transformed-eagles-into-super-bowl-contenders)

 

We are at the same point in a similar rebuild. And so I ask the question, is it an opportunity for us? 

 

We have a supposedly weak schedule, a budding 2nd year QB that gives us great cap flexibility and not that many holes to fill. Here are some moves I think could help us mirror the Eagles success:

 

1. Trade for Jadeveon Clowney. Houston’s lack of OLine talent could feed into our favor. Plus it seems Houston doesn’t want to meet the contract Clowney’s side wants. Trade them Dawkins and a 2nd for Clowney and a 6th?

 

2. Trade a 6th for Cameron Brate. TB has OJ Howard starting and are paying Brate, a backup TE a pretty penny. He would immediately be a very good pass catching TE for us and their is no guaranteed money on his contract after this year. He had a drop off in production last year as he played all 2018 with a hip injury but should be cleared by training camp.

 

3. Trade our first for AJ Green. The Bengals are entering a rebuild and having a second 1st round pick to maneuver around and get their top QB in 2020 may be too much for them to say no to.

 

I know it may seem surreal to think about us making that type of jump, but if the Eagles could do it would it be that crazy to think we could pull off something similar?

 

#1 I'd be OK with trading for Clowney,  Maybe one of the Oline just signed and while I somewhat hate to part with him, would offer Lawson as he'd become a bit more expendable with signing Clowney

 

#2  Why would you trade even a 6th rounder for a guy who at best would be the number three TE behind Kroft and Dawson.  And personally I think Croom is better than many here think so not certain Brate wouldn't fall to the #4 TE

 

#3  I'd trade for Green too, but think he could be had for less than #1.  Teams only give up #1's for true superstars and don't think he's at that level.  I know Dallas gave up a #1 for Cooper, but that was a mid-season trade and most felt at the time they overpaid.  I'd offer Zay Jones and a 3rd or something similar.