Did we land a top 5 GM in Beane?

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, billsfan_34 said:

Beane inherited a mess - simply saying 15-17 really isnt looking at the bigger picture of things. 

Oh my god.  The mess is the most overrated thing ever.  Our best players were guys Whaley got.  We could have kept Sammy.  Dareus got traded in the middle of a playoff race that caused a bunch of dead money.  They traded for that fat slob Benjamin.  They keep Peterman on the roster and starting him.  They waited until the middle of the season to get veteran qbs.

 

i just hope we can stop with the excuses.  But saying a 7-9 team was a mess is such BS.  

[mjt328]

I like his strategy.  And I think his master-plan for rebuilding the roster has been very sound.

Beane's first 12 months were all about drafting a potential-franchise QB, and purging the salary cap of bad contracts.

He executed both moves to perfection.

 

But ultimately, he must also be great at evaluating talent and bringing in the right players.  Only time will tell if he's been good enough on that end.

What happens if Josh Allen turns out to be a bust?  What good is cap space if he doesn't properly utilize it to restock the roster?

I admittedly feel very optimistic about both of these issues.  But we won't know until the Bills actually hit the field and start racking up wins.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by mjt328

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 hours ago, ProcessAccepted said:

You left out only getting a 3rd round pick for Tyrod and just a 5th for McCarron. ?

Great trades.

You left out giving up a 3rd for KB.

Full disclosure I thought the KB trade was great at the time but it ended in disaster.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

We shall see.

[ProcessAccepted]

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

 

True but remember Whaley never really had a say with the HC. McD and Beane were close before he was even hired which makes things smoother whereas Whaley had Marrone and Rex's big ego's to deal with. Additionally its hard to know what role Russ Brandon played in that power struggle. At the time people would've freaked if Dareus was not resigned that had to be done and Mario was at the height of his popularity because he was producing. My point just is after two seasons which were an identical 6-10 and 9-7, Whaley's 2015 offseason was viewed as a success big time by most Bills fans and media. He was credited for potentially building a good team. I don't disagree Beane is farrr more calculating with a stronger plan and communication skills, but the goal is to put out the best possible roster and heading into the opening of 2015 Whaley was credited for the amount of talent that team had amassed. Skill position wise the WR corp and RB corp in 15 is superior to what we currently have even though it has been upgraded.

I agree that Whaley was put in different situations than Beane, but in every organization you have to learn to get along and build trust. Whaley definitely had talent, hopefully if he ever gets a GM role again in the NFL he'll avoid some of the pitfalls from his time with the Bills.

[LABILLBACKER]

You're only as good as the QB you bring in. Whaley failed miserably with EJ. Josh will determine Brandon's legacy. But I must say so far he has steered this team into a potentially great "course" for the future. 

[Bing Bong]

5 hours ago, Virgil said:

Remember when we thought we had our QB in Fitz and rewarded him early?

 

So long as we are the Bills, I can't declare anyone a success until I see it on the field at the end of the season.

 

BBFS for life!

I distinctly remember I was convinced we were going to have a potent top 5 NFL offense for years to come at the beginning of that year.

 

Boy Chan Gailey really did his best to polish those turds.

[nucci]

3 hours ago, BillsFan1988 said:

I'll answer this question when we are a top 5 team.  I would admit though he's done a good job so far.

Then it's already answered...

[Bing Bong]

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Make bad personnel decisions and then move on.... the talent just radiates from him.

I'm invoking the Peterman ruling as a 2 year handicap to Beane's ranking. Only Josh Allen becoming great will null that terrible terrible sequence of events.

 

Otherwise I like him fine. I love his work dumpster diving in the secondary, just as I loved Whaley's dumpster diving in the front 7. That's really where I see a GM's ability. Landing a quarterback is obviously every GM's legacy, and it's so hard and sometimes random.. I like to weigh a GMs work on every position and dumpster diving for Poyers, Hydes, Fosters and (Whaley's) Hughes? Well if a GM does that maybe 10-15 times he's going to have a damned good team around his high draft picks.

Edited April 4, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

Good post. And I won't agree that "incomplete" is the logical final grade. But with an "A" in all the major categories you explained, I'd say the grade is trending toward...well....an "A"!

 

...agree bud....add one more "A"......to OP for an excellent assessment....closing with an "incomplete" duly highlights his objectivity............

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I love his approach to free agency. It's how I would do it if I had a lot of cap space. Stay away from the top guys and sign a bunch of middle tier starters. That's how you create depth. Draft your stars. 

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

He is definitely a more interesting GM than we've had in years. If the wins don't improve, I hope he has the courage, if warranted, to cut bait with the Head coach.

[ColoradoBills]

46 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He has the same exact record as Doug Whaley after 2 years.  Would anyone take the current roster over the 2015 one?  

 

Im happy people are optimistic.  That’s awesome.  But this is kinda nuts.  We had the second worst offense in the nfl last year.  We started Nathan Peterman.  They gave up picks for Benjamin who was a fat slob when they had him in Carolina.  Our receivers were a joke last year.  

 

Again, it’s all on Allen.  If he turns into a franchise qb, Beane (and McDermott) will be remembered fondly. If not, he will just be another failed GM. 

 

Beane is not going to be judged because Nathan Peterman started as QB last year.

His final judgment will entirely be wired to Josh Allen, last years draft, this FA and this years draft. 

You have to know this.  You are a smart guy and sometimes I got to ask why people keep this up.

 

Beane and McDermott had a plan to totally dismantle this team.  It should not even be a question.

Whether he puts together a winner starts this year, last year has nothing to do with it.

[BillsFan1988]

20 minutes ago, nucci said:

Then it's already answered...

He's done a good job doesn't mean he's top 5 at it.  Lol. I hope he proves to be the best though that's for sure.

[C.Biscuit97]

15 minutes ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

He is definitely a more interesting GM than we've had in years. If the wins don't improve, I hope he has the courage, if warranted, to cut bait with the Head coach.

I actually think this would be very interesting. I’ve joked the McDermott is Beane’s boss.  But if it came down to it, could Beane fire McDermott to keep his job?

5 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Beane is not going to be judged because Nathan Peterman started as QB last year.

His final judgment will entirely be wired to Josh Allen, last years draft, this FA and this years draft. 

You have to know this.  You are a smart guy and sometimes I got to ask why people keep this up.

 

Beane and McDermott had a plan to totally dismantle this team.  It should not even be a question.

Whether he puts together a winner starts this year, last year has nothing to do with it.

Totally agree it’s all about Allen.  But there is zero reason why he had to go into the season with only Peterman and Allen as qbs and that garbage receiving core.

 

Im not saying he should get fired but saying top 5 now is borderline laughable.  

[nucci]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

He's done a good job doesn't mean he's top 5 at it.  Lol. I hope he proves to be the best though that's for sure.

I meant since you said not until we're a top 5 team...

[corta765]

54 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said:

I agree that Whaley was put in different situations than Beane, but in every organization you have to learn to get along and build trust. Whaley definitely had talent, hopefully if he ever gets a GM role again in the NFL he'll avoid some of the pitfalls from his time with the Bills.

 

I'd really like to see him get another shot. He made some crucial mistakes with building trust and contract wise. But he certainly did well in trades and had a good eye for talent. The 2016 draft was all Rex I never held that against Whaley the same as 2017 draft seems to have been McD so I wouldn't hold that against Beane although that class looks really good.

[ColoradoBills]

11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I actually think this would be very interesting. I’ve joked the McDermott is Beane’s boss.  But if it came down to it, could Beane fire McDermott to keep his job?

Totally agree it’s all about Allen.  But there is zero reason why he had to go into the season with only Peterman and Allen as qbs and that garbage receiving core.

 

Im not saying he should get fired but saying top 5 now is borderline laughable.  

 

McCarron was the miss by Beane not Peterman as a perceived backup.

Benjamin quitting they way he did is just dumbfounding.  He probably wasn't ever going to be a 1WR but my god when was the last

time you seen a player with his earlier career talent just completely give up?

 

I have not and will not call Beane a top 5 GM today but his results this year will weigh heavy on his future.

I'm waiting to see who the 90 are that go to camp.

[billsfan_34]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Oh my god.  The mess is the most overrated thing ever.  Our best players were guys Whaley got.  We could have kept Sammy.  Dareus got traded in the middle of a playoff race that caused a bunch of dead money.  They traded for that fat slob Benjamin.  They keep Peterman on the roster and starting him.  They waited until the middle of the season to get veteran qbs.

 

i just hope we can stop with the excuses.  But saying a 7-9 team was a mess is such BS.  

Salary cap hell and moving up for Watkins is a good definition of a mess. Not getting a franchise QB wasn’t wise either. Letting Brandon have say on the football side- ya know, don’t let Rex out of the building, was another epic mistake and a piss poor coaching hire. 

 

Benjamin was a bad move but trading Dareus was smart- he wasnt worth his contract and now the slate is clean.

 

But really, it is time to start winning some games- until we string some good seasons together guys like me and you will continue with conversations that really dont mean all that much.

[ProcessAccepted]

5 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

I'd really like to see him get another shot. He made some crucial mistakes with building trust and contract wise. But he certainly did well in trades and had a good eye for talent. The 2016 draft was all Rex I never held that against Whaley the same as 2017 draft seems to have been McD so I wouldn't hold that against Beane although that class looks really good.

Agreed. He was very young and inexperienced when he got the job, and Buddy Nix's mentorship clearly didn't prepare him. I think with time to reflect on mistakes he'll do better if he gets another shot.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

No, he is number one !!!

 

 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He has the same exact record as Doug Whaley after 2 years.

 

That's terrible for Whaley. In 2015 we spent $210 million on our active roster which was #1 in the league. In 2018 we spent $160 million on our active roster which was #31 in the league. How did we end up with the same record while spending a lot less on the roster? That's awful use of cap space.

[Chandler#81]

3 hours ago, eball said:

 

Whaley was a victim of the Peter Principle...was hired into a job one step further than what he was qualified for.  Good scout and talent evaluator -- horrible team builder and salary cap manager.

 

I think Beane clearly isn't as experienced as a scout but he knows that and has surrounded himself with those people.  He appears, at this early stage, to be quite proficient at the team building and salary cap management aspects of the job -- and the dude seems to know how to maneuver his way around a draft board!

This.

Everyone connected with the League knew about Beane as an up & comer in Carolina. The Bills were showered with praise for the hire. The Panthers didn’t want to lose him, but he was ready to move up and Pegs got the jump on them by hiring McDermott. They, Gil Brandt, Polian, other past and present GM’s, etc., knew, openly stated and continue to admire him in his 1st official GM post. That he has a coach he’s very familiar with, respects and works openly with, speaks volumes about our current status. No one need be reminded the hot mess they inherited here. Has he made some gaffs already? You betcha. Who hasn’t? But I share the belief of those who truly know that we are witnessing a match made in NFL Heaven.

[Bill_with_it]

To be determined, but my opinion is he is on his way there.

[HeHateMe]

Greatest GM of all time!  It's not even close.

[3rdnlng]

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

 

The ability to try and make a trade for AB and then get turned down just can't be taught. ?

 

Make bad personnel decisions and then move on.... the talent just radiates from him.

 

 

15-17 record so far here....top 5? Best GM in the league for sure.??

[JPP]

With all the moves recently...If we have a strong season and are dangerous in the playoffs than definately YES IMO....

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's terrible for Whaley. In 2015 we spent $210 million on our active roster which was #1 in the league. In 2018 we spent $160 million on our active roster which was #31 in the league. How did we end up with the same record while spending a lot less on the roster? That's awful use of cap space.

 

 

The answer is because the head coach that the owners reached over Whaley to hire took a top 5 defense in 2014 and ran it into the ground..........they astonishingly finished near the bottom of the league in DVOA despite a wealth of talent.   

 

You can't compare Whaley and Beane without the context of the meddlesome management above him.

 

Russ picked his Syracuse buddy Marrone PRIOR to elevating Whaley and the Pegula's and Russ picked Rex.

 

The reason why Whaley had to go was because he wasn't proficient enough in the overall duties of the office to be a viable GM for greenhorn owners like The Pegs............who were woefully in over their heads when it comes to football operations.........WOEFULLY...........and they needed someone to come in,  take charge and anchor them.

 

"Scout only" GM's can be fine........John Butler was a "scout only" GM.......the Steelers where Whaley came from have had success with "scout only" GM's because the Rooneys don't need their collective hand held.

 

But it's hard to pull off when you have a culture of losing AND rudderless leadership from the owner.

 

Is Beane even a good GM?   It's hard to say.........the results aren't there yet.........but he IS the right kind of GM for The Pegs right now............and this is where we are on The Pegs learning curve as owners.   

 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The answer is because the head coach that the owners reached over Whaley to hire took a top 5 defense in 2014 and ran it into the ground..........they astonishingly finished near the bottom of the league in DVOA despite a wealth of talent.   

 

You can't compare Whaley and Beane without the context of the meddlesome management above him.

 

Russ picked his Syracuse buddy Marrone PRIOR to elevating Whaley and the Pegula's and Russ picked Rex.

 

The reason why Whaley had to go was because he wasn't proficient enough in the overall duties of the office to be a viable GM for greenhorn owners like The Pegs............who were woefully in over their heads when it comes to football operations.........WOEFULLY...........and they needed someone to come in,  take charge and anchor them.

 

"Scout only" GM's can be fine........John Butler was a "scout only" GM.......the Steelers where Whaley came from have had success with "scout only" GM's because the Rooneys don't need their collective hand held.

 

But it's hard to pull off when you have a culture of losing AND rudderless leadership from the owner.

 

Is Beane even a good GM?   It's hard to say.........the results aren't there yet.........but he IS the right kind of GM for The Pegs right now............and this is where we are on The Pegs learning curve as owners.   

 

Can disagree with most of this....the success of a GM plays on "other factors"

[Ethan in Cleveland]

5 hours ago, hjnick said:

 

Interesting take.

 

I don't think Beane, in his grand plan, was planning on trying to make the playoffs that year.  Of course, he'll take it, but he knew the roster needed to be blown up.

 

If you are going to purge players/salary, he got a lot of value out of some of them so we could even have a shot at Josh.

Also, why stretch the dead money over years instead of just taking a 1 year hit and get rid of all the dead money in one shot.

 

We have made it thru, now let's see how he does.

This is a fair take and to be honest its all we can do now - look forward and evaluate his decisions/selections.

Barring a complete disaster he and McD will survive this year. But if Allen fails and no playoffs in 2019 or 2020 they are both gone

[3rdnlng]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea sorry.

 

Did you hear how he stuck up for the city of Buffalo? Dudes a top 5 GM. No question. 

I don't know what happened. I certainly didn't post a dark cloud picture. It must be just following you around.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Cleaned up salary cap disaster in one year

 

Wheeled and dealed to get into position to draft a franchise QB

 

Not afraid to roll the dice on an upside player, and more importantly, not afraid to admit a mistake and cut their ass if it doesn’t work

 

Addressed O-line and WR,  largest team weaknesses in FA, on team friendly deals without breaking the bank

 

Still has a top 10 draft pick in his pocket and nine other picks

 

Should have @$100 million in space next year to extend our own talent instead of watching it walk

 

Has the stones to go after AB, and the brains to walk away

 

Gets up in front of the entire NFL and national sports media and tells them all to suck his d*** for bad mouthing Buffalo

 

We’ll all see how it plays out on the field this season, but I think Beane has this franchise in the best shape it’s been in twenty years

 

 

It depends on which of the 5 draft strategy threads he chooses to subscribe to. 

[HappyDays]

35 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Russ picked his Syracuse buddy Marrone PRIOR to elevating Whaley and the Pegula's and Russ picked Rex.

 

Did Russ also choose to spend 3 1st round picks on EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins? It's hard to imagine a worse use of resources.

[formerlyofCtown]

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

 

The ability to try and make a trade for AB and then get turned down just can't be taught. ?

 

Make bad personnel decisions and then move on.... the talent just radiates from him.

 

 

15-17 record so far here....top 5? Best GM in the league for sure.??

...Solid take as usual?

3 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

Salary cap hell and moving up for Watkins is a good definition of a mess. Not getting a franchise QB wasn’t wise either. Letting Brandon have say on the football side- ya know, don’t let Rex out of the building, was another epic mistake and a piss poor coaching hire. 

 

Benjamin was a bad move but trading Dareus was smart- he wasnt worth his contract and now the slate is clean.

 

But really, it is time to start winning some games- until we string some good seasons together guys like me and you will continue with conversations that really dont mean all that much.

That was Brandon.(Dont let Rex out of the building)  If you are going to take on someones bad take make sure youre accurate.

Edited April 4, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[joevan]

Mahomes drafted April 2017 after KC switching pick with Bills.  

 

Beane hired May 2017.    Mahomes not on Beane.

[billsfan_34]

39 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

...Solid take as usual?

That was Brandon.(Dont let Rex out of the building)  If you are going to take on someones bad take make sure youre accurate.

I know it was Brandon- my point was Whaley allowed it. Please re read what I wrote- thanks.

Edited April 4, 2019 by billsfan_34

[Magnum Force]

I think so

[BADOLBILZ]

47 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Did Russ also choose to spend 3 1st round picks on EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins? It's hard to imagine a worse use of resources.

 

 

Remember when trading back to select Manuel netted the 2013 NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year in Kiko Alonso in round 2?

 

Remember when Watkins put up over 2K receiving yards in his first two seasons........a 70 yards per game average?

 

While I ALSO like Tre White and Allen and Edmunds..........none of them started out as good as Alonso or Watkins.........which is why so many people here were absolutely ga-ga over Whaley at the same point as McBeane are at now.

 

Let's hope that unexpected injuries don't derail any of the Bills current hight picks.........but it wasn't a given that Kiko and Watkins would be injury riddled.............nor did it look like the other 2013 second rounder Robert Woods would put up 1200 yards receiving in 2018 though either.    Ronald Darby was also probably a top 5 all time Bills second round pick.

 

The real shabby work of Whaley was drafting Shaq and Ragnuts to appease Rex Ryan's needs.

 

 

[reddogblitz]

We'll know we have a top 5 GM when we are one of the top 5 teams in the league.  A good place to start would be home playoff win.

[SoTier]

 

4 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

McCarron was the miss by Beane not Peterman as a perceived backup.

Benjamin quitting they way he did is just dumbfounding.  He probably wasn't ever going to be a 1WR but my god when was the last

time you seen a player with his earlier career talent just completely give up?

 

I have not and will not call Beane a top 5 GM today but his results this year will weigh heavy on his future.

I'm waiting to see who the 90 are that go to camp.

 

Peterman's play in 2017 should have been a red flag to Beane ... and apparently it wasn't.  

McCarron "wasn't who they thought he was" because either Beane was too ignorant to realize that McCarron was looking for a real shot at a starting gig or realized that but didn't care and misled McCarron to get him to sign.

Rather than signing another backup QB immediately after McCarron was traded, Beane waited around for a month while Anderson finished his golf tourney.

As for Benjamin, he had played poorly in Carolina prior to his trade, supposedly because of injuries, and had already been supplanted there by Funchess.

 

1 hour ago, joevan said:

Mahomes drafted April 2017 after KC switching pick with Bills.  

 

Beane hired May 2017.    Mahomes not on Beane.

 

Well, according to the Beane cheerleaders on TSW, Beane had input into the Bills 2017 draft despite being an assistant GM for the Panthers.  In that scenario, then, passing on Mahomes would have to count against Beane.  The McBeane bot army can't have it both ways.