dave mcbride Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: This is just insanity. Back in the day, teams recognized that Qbs needed a few years to grow into the position, to mature in their ability to read defenses, etc. Not only did players need this, but coaches as well. And now you see this: you have a team that gives up on a HC and a QB after one year, only to go after a new HC that has minimal (any??) NFL coaching experience, who is being give the keys to the kingdom, and who apparently thinks the answer at QB is a kid that is undersized and a big question mark as to how he'll fit in the league. Meanwhile you have a guy in Rosen that this time last year was the one who was most pro ready by many accounts, played on a team that had little to offer to help him, and somehow he gets thrown to the trash heap. No wonder the Cards struggle. No wonder the teams that seem to do the best year in and year out are the ones with stability in the front office and coaching staffs. In the previous five seasons before this last one, the Cardinals went 49-30-1. They did pretty well (or at least decently) of late until this past season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 3 hours ago, oldmanfan said: This is just insanity. Back in the day, teams recognized that Qbs needed a few years to grow into the position, to mature in their ability to read defenses, etc. Not only did players need this, but coaches as well. And now you see this: you have a team that gives up on a HC and a QB after one year, only to go after a new HC that has minimal (any??) NFL coaching experience, who is being give the keys to the kingdom, and who apparently thinks the answer at QB is a kid that is undersized and a big question mark as to how he'll fit in the league. Meanwhile you have a guy in Rosen that this time last year was the one who was most pro ready by many accounts, played on a team that had little to offer to help him, and somehow he gets thrown to the trash heap. No wonder the Cards struggle. No wonder the teams that seem to do the best year in and year out are the ones with stability in the front office and coaching staffs. The specifics of this case are definitely head scratching (if indeed they go this way), the actual decision to make any moves necessary to get "your guy" at QB is the right one. Too many Tannehills and Daltons in the world that teams deal with cause good enough is good enough for them without ever taking the next step. Hard to see if this is one of those cases, but I applaud their boldness if they go this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Frankly it would’ve been nice if the Bills could’ve admitted their mistakes more quickly in the last 20 years. But it probably would’ve been easier to move on from the Losmans and the Manuels if we had the #1 overall pick and somebody who was as dynamic as Murray in the draft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Prices are slashed for Josh Rosen jerseys https://news.yahoo.com/prices-slashed-josh-rosen-jerseys-182109105.html According to Bo Brack of FOX Sports 910 in Phoenix, at least one store in the area has dropped the price of Rosen jerseys from $100 to $39.99. Josh Rosen trade rumors heat up Fansided: 5 optimistic Josh Rosen trade packages Avery Duncan has the Giants, Redskins, Patriots, Dolphins and Chargers on his list. Of the Giants, he writes: "The Giants still don’t have a plan in place for life after Eli Manning, as Kyle Lauletta‘s mediocre performance in his small sample size didn’t inspire much confidence in New York. But that changes in this trade, as the Giants mortgage their depth picks and immediate impact ones for Rosen, while also throwing in a pass rusher they invested heavily in." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Goat Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Leaked: Former Arizona Cardinals head coach Steve Wilks immediately after the Bills traded up to select Allen. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasNootz Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Hire slowly - fire quickly. If you don't think he's the right fit for your organization you're best to move on as quickly as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/03/05/kyler-murray-no-1-pick-arizona-cardinals-josh-rosen-trade-value-dk-metcalf-body-fat-women-coaches Murray represents where the NFL is going, and what is trickling up from the college ranks. As Daniel Jeremiah, the NFL Network’s draft analyst, put it, “Who are the great young immobile quarterbacks? There really aren’t any of them.” You can point to Tom Brady or Drew Brees or Philip Rivers, but those players are able to excel in today’s NFL because of their minds and their deep knowledge of what is going to happen on each play after years of experience, allowing them to get out of trouble by getting rid of the ball. “With Kyler Murray, you’ve got two chances to be right: The play that they call has a chance to work and the play that he makes has a chance to work,” Jeremiah says. Edited March 5, 2019 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/03/05/kyler-murray-no-1-pick-arizona-cardinals-josh-rosen-trade-value-dk-metcalf-body-fat-women-coaches Murray represents where the NFL is going, and what is trickling up from the college ranks. As Daniel Jeremiah, the NFL Network’s draft analyst, put it, “Who are the great young immobile quarterbacks? There really aren’t any of them.” You can point to Tom Brady or Drew Brees or Philip Rivers, but those players are able to excel in today’s NFL because of their minds and their deep knowledge of what is going to happen on each play after years of experience, allowing them to get out of trouble by getting rid of the ball. “With Kyler Murray, you’ve got two chances to be right: The play that they call has a chance to work and the play that he makes has a chance to work,” Jeremiah says. I saw that too - it makes sense - and part of it, also, is the CBA and the lack of practice time you get with young QBs and all of your offensive linemen. Pass pro is just not what it used to be, and inexperienced immobile pocket passers (like Rosen, actually) are just not worth what they once were. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: I saw that too - it makes sense - and part of it, also, is the CBA and the lack of practice time you get with young QBs and all of your offensive linemen. Pass pro is just not what it used to be, and inexperienced immobile pocket passers (like Rosen, actually) are just not worth what they once were. Also worth noting: Russell Wilson, Mahomes, and Murray were all excellent baseball players and played premier defensive positions: respectively, 2nd base, SS, and center field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) Only takes one. Edited March 5, 2019 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Heard it from a friend, who... Heard if from a friend who... Heard it from another that your board work was just guessing around.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Man, I'm already tired of hearing about this shrimp. I lost any cares for Murray after the Patrick Show debacle and now I'm just waiting to see Rosen get dealt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Only takes one. He's perfect for Arizona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Man, I'm already tired of hearing about this shrimp. I lost any cares for Murray after the Patrick Show debacle and now I'm just waiting to see Rosen get dealt. Me too. Overexposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 On 3/4/2019 at 1:56 PM, oldmanfan said: This is just insanity. Back in the day, teams recognized that Qbs needed a few years to grow into the position, to mature in their ability to read defenses, etc. Not only did players need this, but coaches as well. And now you see this: you have a team that gives up on a HC and a QB after one year, only to go after a new HC that has minimal (any??) NFL coaching experience, who is being give the keys to the kingdom, and who apparently thinks the answer at QB is a kid that is undersized and a big question mark as to how he'll fit in the league. Meanwhile you have a guy in Rosen that this time last year was the one who was most pro ready by many accounts, played on a team that had little to offer to help him, and somehow he gets thrown to the trash heap. No wonder the Cards struggle. No wonder the teams that seem to do the best year in and year out are the ones with stability in the front office and coaching staffs. It's pretty crazy, but sometimes bold moves are needed to break up a losing culture. I figured Kingsbury would do what McVay and Nagy did which is put all their faith on the quarterback many doubted after their rookie year. Obviously, he's more comfortable going all in on Murray if the reports are true. If they can cut their losses with Rosen and get a 1st round pick for him then at least Kingsbury can take comfort in the fact that if it doesn't work out he can say at least I did it my way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Watch them fool everyone and take Haskins 1 overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Yeah no one ever questioned Baker as a leader. what a crock of *****. Media guys are so full of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Based on a quick and relatively uninformed assessment I was sceptical of Murray's prospects as a starting calibre NFL QB, not to mention as an actual franchise guy. But if his combine height/weight is legit (and I assume it is) then if he fails it won't be because he's too small (he has the raw talent/physical ability and could potentially perform very well in the right offence). In any pics I had seen he always looked to me more a midget wrestler than a pro football player and I was assuming he fell into an extremely limited sample size of legit NFL QB's who were that small (basically a sample size of 1, being Doug Flute). OTOH Jeremiah can say what he wants about brains and experience being Brady's, Rivers, or Brees' saving graces, but the reality is that the mental attributes needed to play the position well, which are rare, are at the end of the day more important than athleticism. And those great players prove it conclusively. I don't know if Casserly is being unfair to Murray, but if he's voicing even a preliminary consensus on intangibles and blackboard smarts that does not bode well for the player. And even if one concedes Murray's top flight athleticism and even putting to one side the issue of football smarts, there are other important parts of the pro QBs skillset (which are a combination of physical and cognitive abilities) that Murray, unlike Mayfield coming out, has yet to prove: can he read a defence pre and post snap, can he find passing lanes, can he lead a receiver with accuracy, can he go through progressions etc...So far, for me, the jury is pretty much still out on Murray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 On March 4, 2019 at 1:59 PM, Bill from NYC said: I'm telling you OMF, it's about money. This kid is going to make HUGE bucks for the owner before the season even starts!!! I bet. Remember all those RG3 jerseys selling like hotcakes for a while.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Becoming pretty obvious Arizona is taking Murray #1. Guess he hurt a couple loser GM’s feeling during interviews, but if I know I’m going #1, not sure why I’d give any info to guys who are gonna be trying to beat me for the next 15 years. So I guess it’s fair game for GM’s to whine to Casserly about an interview with a prospect, but when a prospect like Polite talks about being criticized in interviews it’s a no-no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: This is where the comparison to Russell Wilson is again, vividly, exposed as totally ridiculous. This kid really seems to be a slug--a great, dumb athlete. Wilson is a brilliant football player and knows the game--through hard work and intuitively. This,combined with a nobody as HC (the second such HC AZ has had in 2 years) will be a fantastic disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I thought he looked completely unprepared against Bama, their only real challenge on D the entire year (and that's questionable considering how Clemson / Lawrence looked against them). Once Bama was up 28-0 he settled in and his final stat line looked almost acceptable but that game was over before anyone blinked. A team would be insane to take him over Haskins. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Another opinion on Casserly: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/05/taking-a-closer-look-at-charley-casserlys-report-regarding-kyler-murray/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, Heitz said: Another opinion on Casserly: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/05/taking-a-closer-look-at-charley-casserlys-report-regarding-kyler-murray/ Mike Florio attacking another person's reporting? LOL 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Madness Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 4 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said: Watch them fool everyone and take Haskins 1 overall. They have the #1 pick, there is no need for deception... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 56 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: Becoming pretty obvious Arizona is taking Murray #1. Guess he hurt a couple loser GM’s feeling during interviews, but if I know I’m going #1, not sure why I’d give any info to guys who are gonna be trying to beat me for the next 15 years. So I guess it’s fair game for GM’s to whine to Casserly about an interview with a prospect, but when a prospect like Polite talks about being criticized in interviews it’s a no-no. Kind of the way it works as GMs are the ones signing the checks. Polite and Murray aren't interviewing GMs for GM roles. They are being interviewed and owe it to themselves to be prepared. The better a player interviews and can demonstrate and diagnose plays on the board, the better their chances of being drafted or being drafted earlier, unless they are doing poorly in the drills too. Being drafted earlier means more money, so it is smart to come physically and mentally prepared. Feedback about how players interview and their board work aren't confidential and are talked about every year... If they go over film with a player and he is asked why did you screw up this play and he gets defensive and upset, they are picturing what their coaches and team will be dealing with when trying to correct mistakes during film, practice, and games. Same thing when asking players to draw up plays on a board and detail assignments. How well did the player understand the scheme he was in and everyone's role. They basically are looking for how coachable is this prospect, and do we think he is a good fit for our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I got more respect for Polite than GM’s hiding anonymously behind Casserly. At least Polite is putting his name behind what he said. If you’re gonna trash somebody, own it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 There is a twitter rumour doing the rounds that a team with serious interest in Murray pre interviews has now taken him off their board. It doesn't appear to be the Cardinals so maybe it doesn't matter.... but he really does appear to have bombed totally in the interview process. I think the people advising the kid over the past 12 months have done an absolutely terrible job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: There is a twitter rumour doing the rounds that a team with serious interest in Murray pre interviews has now taken him off their board. It doesn't appear to be the Cardinals so maybe it doesn't matter.... but he really does appear to have bombed totally in the interview process. I think the people advising the kid over the past 12 months have done an absolutely terrible job. Just saw this before checking in here a few minutes ago: https://nypost.com/2019/03/05/kyler-murray-backlash-arrives-worst-reports-execs-ever-heard/ Edited March 6, 2019 by SinceThe70s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 Hmmm maybe Mayock is privately trashing Murray in hopes that he falls? He worked with Casserley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Hmmm maybe Mayock is privately trashing Murray in hopes that he falls? He worked with Casserley. I believe everything I hear pre draft. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Actions speak louder than words. All you need to know is whether the Cardinals are shopping Rosen or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Just now, Doc said: Actions speak louder than words. All you need to know is whether the Cardinals are shopping Rosen or not. And how can we possibly know either way? All these teams do is lie and get false information. I guess we will have an answer soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: And how can we possibly know either way? All these teams do is lie and get false information. I guess we will have an answer soon. The GMs will know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 15 minutes ago, Doc said: Actions speak louder than words. All you need to know is whether the Cardinals are shopping Rosen or not. And if they are? That would confirm that Klingsbury is blindly all in on Murray, as reported. Doesn't mean other teams didn't react the way Casserly is describing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 IMO Rosen and Murray have bust written all over them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfanAZ Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I cant see where the Cards would throw away Rosen to go with Murray. That would be a huge waste of a draft last year. They might be able to get a third round pick for Rosen. If AZ takes him 1st overall, would they be the first team to take QB's in the first round in back to back years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 From every interview I have seen with him I can understand the negative reviews. Maybe he is a great guy and a leader but he sure comes off weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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