I don't believe in the 3 year plan happening in '19

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Didn't they make all those trades and dump all those guys in order to have everything they need to build a champion?

Yes, they traded all those guys to acquire the means (draft picks for 2018 and 2019, and cap space for 2019) to build a championship caliber team. Now we need to see what they do with those draft picks and cap space in 2019. If they do well, then they are on their way to building the team we all want. If they do not do well, we will be starting over again in a couple of years. We can only wait and see.

[Alphadawg7]

36 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

It is obvious what they were doing with cap room this season, and they obviously were willing to take a strategic setback in order to build a more sound financial situation rolling forward.

 

Having said that, there is also no doubt that they thought it would go substantially better than it did this year.  They also thought Peterman would be a serviceable starter while Allen learned and watched from the sideline.

 

This season is not about a 100% tank, or a 100% planned rebuild with everything going according to plan.

 

The truth lies in the middle.  They will emerge from this season, overall, looking bad IMO and McBeane's fate will rest in their ability to fix this #*$& show in this coming offseason.

 

 

 

But this isn't correct.  Why do people on the board keep throwing this false statement out there?  It was widely reported and also confirmed by McD in a press conference that the "plan" going into the 3rd preseason game was to start ALLEN week 1. That was when there was 3 QBs still here.  They had their hand forced a little bit when Allen and the offense got overwhelmed the 3rd game, but the intention was to start Allen NOT Peterman.  

 

So ultimately, they didn't start Peterman because they felt he was a good starter, they started Peterman to sit Allen a little longer to make sure he was ready and he was ALWAYS going to start at some point early in the season.

 

But fans here keep spinning this as if McD decided Peterman was a franchise QB and turned the franchise over to him.  And the only reason we kept him over AJM was because no one offered us an asset for Peterman, and the Raiders foolishly offered us a 5th and they took it considering they were going to cut one of the two anyway and NP outplayed AJM anyway in preseason.  

 

And no coach ever goes out on Sundays and tries to tank.  McD is going to try and win every single game, no matter how good the roster is or isnt.  They knew this was going to be a rebuilding season, and both Beane and McD said that.  And our teams biggest struggles were mostly with NP and DA, so injuries contributed heavily to several of those really bad weeks.  

 

I respect your opinion, but I cant see how any can look at McD and Beane and think they look bad.  They broke the 17 year drought with a below average roster.  They got rid of bad contracts or players who didn't fit the future plans.  They drafted very well grabbing impactful starters in Tre and Milano, managed to grab 2 first round picks without giving up any future picks to land our QB and MLB to anchor both sides of the ball, and found value still in the draft after in guys like Taron and Phillips who look promising themselves.  Not to mention guys like Levi and Gaines who show potential too.  They found a gem in UDFA and other teams practice squad players.  They weren't afraid to cut bait on a trade that didn't work and cut KB to make way for the younger players.  

 

And most importantly, Beane fixed the cap a year earlier than he projected while also grabbing a few extra draft picks this year too.  I mean how is anyone upset with this?  Drafting well, clearing out cap space, adding extra picks, finding value in UDFA and PS players, etc...I am quite pleased with the direction of this team.  We got a top D right now with a young QB that is exciting and there is a lot to be excited about.

[Trogdor]

I keep seeing cap hell, but how much of that was self imposed? 

[reddogblitz]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well lucky for us then that next year is only year TWO of the 3 year plan.  This will only be Beanes second draft.  McD first year he was stuck with Rex and Whaleys roster.  This was the first actual year of the rebuild where they tore out the pieces the were getting us no where and fixed the cap.  

 

Its amazing how out of touch some of you are with the realities and facts of this team.  

 

I disagree. Year 1 we did make the playoffs, but we also dumped a lot of talent and Whaley first round picks for draft picks. And we traded down out of 10 (which could have been Watson or Mahommes, but I digress).

 

Sammy

Darby

Ragland

Mr. Big Stuff

 

That's rebuilding no matter how you slice it IMHO

[papazoid]

On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 7:30 PM, PUNT750 said:

I really can’t believe the 3 year re-build plan for the Bills will have much success in 2019.  Regardless of 10 draft picks and $90 mil in cap space it doesn’t make sense.

 

 

Realistically we need new, quality;   O Lineman (3), WR (3), RB (2), LB (1), TE (1), DB (1), DL (1) 

 

 

That’s 12 total to be competitive!!

 

 

 

We’re going to have to over-pay for quality, top tier free-agents to come to Buffalo.  We all know the risks with drafts picks in their rookie seasons (Zay Jones, Teller, McCloud and even Edmunds).  It just doesn’t happen.

 

 

I love believing in the PROCESS but with a young, raw QB who is still unproven while trying to blend a plethora of new players into a competent NFL team seems unrealistic.  It may sell tickets but not win a lot of games.

 

 

GO BILLS!

 

 

bills didn't over pay for Hyde & Poyer.

 

tre devious, allen and Edmunds all contributed and played well in rookie season.

 

last time I checked the bills haven't revealed their rebuild plans. 

 

clearing out the garbage contracts bodes well for future

 

you take F/A and trades one deal at a time as they come.

 

$100 mil under the cap fixes a lot of problems.

 

no regime wins them all. 

 

fortunes change quickly in this league

 

 

 

 

[Nextmanup]

17 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

I keep seeing cap hell, but how much of that was self imposed? 

Almost all of it.

 

 

24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But this isn't correct.  Why do people on the board keep throwing this false statement out there?  It was widely reported and also confirmed by McD in a press conference that the "plan" going into the 3rd preseason game was to start ALLEN week 1. That was when there was 3 QBs still here.  They had their hand forced a little bit when Allen and the offense got overwhelmed the 3rd game, but the intention was to start Allen NOT Peterman.  

 

So ultimately, they didn't start Peterman because they felt he was a good starter, they started Peterman to sit Allen a little longer to make sure he was ready and he was ALWAYS going to start at some point early in the season.

 

But fans here keep spinning this as if McD decided Peterman was a franchise QB and turned the franchise over to him.  And the only reason we kept him over AJM was because no one offered us an asset for Peterman, and the Raiders foolishly offered us a 5th and they took it considering they were going to cut one of the two anyway and NP outplayed AJM anyway in preseason.  

 

And no coach ever goes out on Sundays and tries to tank.  McD is going to try and win every single game, no matter how good the roster is or isnt.  They knew this was going to be a rebuilding season, and both Beane and McD said that.  And our teams biggest struggles were mostly with NP and DA, so injuries contributed heavily to several of those really bad weeks.  

 

I respect your opinion, but I cant see how any can look at McD and Beane and think they look bad.  They broke the 17 year drought with a below average roster.  They got rid of bad contracts or players who didn't fit the future plans.  They drafted very well grabbing impactful starters in Tre and Milano, managed to grab 2 first round picks without giving up any future picks to land our QB and MLB to anchor both sides of the ball, and found value still in the draft after in guys like Taron and Phillips who look promising themselves.  Not to mention guys like Levi and Gaines who show potential too.  They found a gem in UDFA and other teams practice squad players.  They weren't afraid to cut bait on a trade that didn't work and cut KB to make way for the younger players.  

 

And most importantly, Beane fixed the cap a year earlier than he projected while also grabbing a few extra draft picks this year too.  I mean how is anyone upset with this?  Drafting well, clearing out cap space, adding extra picks, finding value in UDFA and PS players, etc...I am quite pleased with the direction of this team.  We got a top D right now with a young QB that is exciting and there is a lot to be excited about.

So starting Peterman Week 1 was a last second adjustment when Allen's big pre-season audition went poorly?

 

I disagree with that.  If the plan was always to make Allen the starter, more would have been done to have a "mentor" on staff to guide him IMO.  Obviously Peterman wasn't that guy and don't forget, they moved AJ off the team voluntarily.

 

They also thought subtle tweaks to the O line would be sufficient, and they weren't.  They had ample time to do something about the losses there and showed poor judgment.

 

McBeane should be on the hot seat and had a poor year IMO.

 

You're entitled to support them all you want.

 

If they don't make quite a large series of successful key changes this off-season, and if Allen doesn't show steady improvement next year, I think they'll be gone.

 

Look at Pegula's actions with the Sabres.  He is not afraid to move people out the door when things aren't going according to plan.  Ask Darcy Regier and Tim Murray what I'm talking about; they'll tell you.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

12 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I disagree. Year 1 we did make the playoffs, but we also dumped a lot of talent and Whaley first round picks for draft picks. And we traded down out of 10 (which could have been Watson or Mahommes, but I digress).

 

Sammy

Darby

Ragland

Mr. Big Stuff

 

That's rebuilding no matter how you slice it IMHO

 

All of those were into the season already.  Those were adjustments as they got to know the roster.  Those were players being jettisoned, not adding building blocks to the future.  This offseason was the real start to the rebuild where they had cleared out a lot of those players and started rebuilding.  So I still see this as the first year of the rebuild.  Year one they mostly inherited those guys outside the draft and they were sorting who wasnt part of the future.

 

And while I get the remorse of Mahomes and Watson given they are further along (but also have more than double the time and experience in the NFL than Allen) I am personally sitting here with a lot of confidence in Allens future.  I think his future is as bright as anyones in the NFL at this point, so I am not sweating the trade down...YET.   If Allen doesn't get there then yeah, that trade down is gonna be a big mistake.  But if Allen does get there, then I will be thrilled to have gotten both Tre and Allen through that process that also contributed to getting Edmunds too.  

7 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Almost all of it.

 

 

So starting Peterman Week 1 was a last second adjustment when Allen's big pre-season audition went poorly?

 

I disagree with that.  If the plan was always to make Allen the starter, more would have been done to have a "mentor" on staff to guide him IMO.  Obviously Peterman wasn't that guy and don't forget, they moved AJ off the team voluntarily.

 

They also thought subtle tweaks to the O line would be sufficient, and they weren't.  They had ample time to do something about the losses there and showed poor judgment.

 

McBeane should be on the hot seat and had a poor year IMO.

 

You're entitled to support them all you want.

 

If they don't make quite a large series of successful key changes this off-season, and if Allen doesn't show steady improvement next year, I think they'll be gone.

 

Look at Pegula's actions with the Sabres.  He is not afraid to move people out the door when things aren't going according to plan.  Ask Darcy Regier and Tim Murray what I'm talking about; they'll tell you.

 

 

 

No disrespect, you can disagree with it all you want...but it was widely reported and also confirmed by McD and Beane that going into the 3rd preseason game, the plan was to start Allen week 1.  

 

And they didn't have a lot to do in regards to the OL, we had a lot of cap issues this year to make room next year.  And we had some young guys they expected to play better than they did on the OL bases on what they showed previously.  

 

Im quite happy at this stage with McBeane personally.  I get you are not, and its fair to be skeptical and share a different opinion.  I am just one that sees a lot more positives than negatives in what they have done to set up us for next year.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Not to nitpick, but if you include Miller three starters were drafted in the last three years.

Please, don't apologize for nitpicking. I appreciate it, and have been on this board for more than 20 years to discuss the Bills.

 

Actually, Miller was drafted in 2015, so that would really be 4 years. To go a step further, in 2014 the Bills actually drafted 3 blockers. The problem was that they all sucked.

I get teased all the time about my preference for Alabama players and I deserve it. The thing is, I watch all of their games and have for years. I posted on TSW that Cyrus Kouandjio was a terrible pick. It hurt me to do so because he was a great kid at Alabama but he was the 4th or perhaps even 5th best blocker on that Alabama team, and this was well before his incident. John C will vouch for me if he sees this post. He was surprised lol.

 

Historically, the Bills neglect the OL. They traded away Glenn. That was bad but Jason Peters?????? Imo he is a first ballot hall of famer player. They passed on all world blockers to draft Leodis McKelvin. The Bills skipped right past great QBs and blockers in order to draft RBs and dbs, and that includes this regime as you well know.

 

In any event yes, the Bills have used some picks on blockers. However, none were first round picks and many of them were awful. They focus on DBs, and have since Levy. It has never worked and never will.

 

Thanks once again for the dialogue.

[oldmanfan]

14 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Please, don't apologize for nitpicking. I appreciate it, and have been on this board for more than 20 years to discuss the Bills.

 

Actually, Miller was drafted in 2015, so that would really be 4 years. To go a step further, in 2014 the Bills actually drafted 3 blockers. The problem was that they all sucked.

I get teased all the time about my preference for Alabama players and I deserve it. The thing is, I watch all of their games and have for years. I posted on TSW that Cyrus Kouandjio was a terrible pick. It hurt me to do so because he was a great kid at Alabama but he was the 4th or perhaps even 5th best blocker on that Alabama team, and this was well before his incident. John C will vouch for me if he sees this post. He was surprised lol.

 

Historically, the Bills neglect the OL. They traded away Glenn. That was bad but Jason Peters?????? Imo he is a first ballot hall of famer player. They passed on all world blockers to draft Leodis McKelvin. The Bills skipped right past great QBs and blockers in order to draft RBs and dbs, and that includes this regime as you well know.

 

In any event yes, the Bills have used some picks on blockers. However, none were first round picks and many of them were awful. They focus on DBs, and have since Levy. It has never worked and never will.

 

Thanks once again for the dialogue.

I agree wholeheartedly they have to focus on the lines, especially on offense.  I think I would focus on finding a couple guys in FA, particularly a quality C if they see one.  It takes a while for young guys to learn the position and Allen could really use a real pro at C to help with blocking calls, etc.  Maybe the guy from Denver.  But if they also see a plug in guy first round at either OT spot I'd take him.  I'm betting they go for a pass rusher in round 1 because this draft is talent heavy there.  And I'd be Ok seeing that as well.

 

I see a long future for Allen, but that's assuming a good O line.  Football is still won or lost in the trenches from my perspective.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

I keep seeing cap hell, but how much of that was self imposed? 

Does it matter?

its a rebuild and we had players that did not fit

[Trogdor]

23 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Does it matter?

its a rebuild and we had players that did not fit

It does matter when you could stay competitive and move on when the contracts came with less of a hit. It's not like they really got anything important from the contracts they shed. You can't use the cap excuse when they caused it.

[oldmanfan]

23 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

It does matter when you could stay competitive and move on when the contracts came with less of a hit. It's not like they really got anything important from the contracts they shed. You can't use the cap excuse when they caused it.

Of course you can.  They elected to rip the band aid off quickly rather than stretch it out. They were clear on that to Terry and everyone. They had players they didn't want.  Good bye.

[DuckyBoys]

We'll see, I like the past few drafts but am skeptical about them getting the right free agents after over paying for Star, Trent, Corey Coleman, trading for KB, mr halftime I'm retired Vonta.  They have to spend that cap money wisely and not land more over paid under achievers .  A couple more of those Star type deals and all that cap space gets eaten up and we get stuck with overpaid mediocrity for several years.  Honestly I'd like Clay gone, Shady gone unless he agrees to serious restructure.  DiMarco bye bye. Star/Trent Murphy are 20 mill next year, ugghh

[MJS]

Good for you.

[Aussie Joe]

Star’s deal is essentially for another two more years at $11m per year...

 

It’s probably twice what he is worth but at least they can move on after that when when it’s time to start paying White, Milano and Dawkins..

 

 

[PUNT750]

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well lucky for us then that next year is only year TWO of the 3 year plan.  This will only be Beanes second draft.  McD first year he was stuck with Rex and Whaleys roster.  This was the first actual year of the rebuild where they tore out the pieces the were getting us no where and fixed the cap.  

 

Its amazing how out of touch some of you are with the realities and facts of this team.  

 

What do you think 2017 was???  Jettisoning Watkins, Dareus, Wood, Preston Brown and more for draft picks & salary caps savings wasn't part of a REBUILD??

[Trogdor]

4 hours ago, papazoid said:

 

 

bills didn't over pay for Hyde & Poyer.

 

tre devious, allen and Edmunds all contributed and played well in rookie season.

 

last time I checked the bills haven't revealed their rebuild plans. 

 

clearing out the garbage contracts bodes well for future

 

you take F/A and trades one deal at a time as they come.

 

$100 mil under the cap fixes a lot of problems.

 

no regime wins them all. 

 

fortunes change quickly in this league

 

 

 

 

Hyde and Poyer were typical Whaley finds. Hyde especially was used as a hybrid safety/corner, so he probably flew under a lot of teams radar. He came from a very bad pass defense too. I like Edmunds, but I think his future is OLB and that leaves a big hole in the middle. White is getting picked on here at the end of the season, but can you imagine him and Darby? What idiot would trade him for a third string slot receiver?

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

Star’s deal is essentially for another two more years at $11m per year...

 

It’s probably twice what he is worth but at least they can move on after that when when it’s time to start paying White, Milano and Dawkins..

 

 

Hope they pass on Dawkins or move him to RT. He isn't nearly as good as Glenn. They need to draft a stud who can actually recover.

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Of course you can.  They elected to rip the band aid off quickly rather than stretch it out. They were clear on that to Terry and everyone. They had players they didn't want.  Good bye.

That's not a good thing. I'm not sure it takes much to convince Terry either. You still can't blame Whaley for the cap when you decide to jettison the talent and incur the penalties of an Overforf contract. Glenn most of all could've been huge for this current team.

[oldmanfan]

40 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Hyde and Poyer were typical Whaley finds. Hyde especially was used as a hybrid safety/corner, so he probably flew under a lot of teams radar. He came from a very bad pass defense too. I like Edmunds, but I think his future is OLB and that leaves a big hole in the middle. White is getting picked on here at the end of the season, but can you imagine him and Darby? What idiot would trade him for a third string slot receiver?

Hope they pass on Dawkins or move him to RT. He isn't nearly as good as Glenn. They need to draft a stud who can actually recover.

That's not a good thing. I'm not sure it takes much to convince Terry either. You still can't blame Whaley for the cap when you decide to jettison the talent and incur the penalties of an Overforf contract. Glenn most of all could've been huge for this current team.

Used Glenn to get Allen.  Everyone hollers they have to draft a QB, they do so, then it's how you should've concentrated on I line.

[Dr.Sack]

Me neither unless Allen is able to make a huge year 2 leap or our OL does what NE’s did to us this past Sunday. 

[TheBeaneBandit]

More like a 3 year sham.......

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, PUNT750 said:

 

What do you think 2017 was???  Jettisoning Watkins, Dareus, Wood, Preston Brown and more for draft picks & salary caps savings wasn't part of a REBUILD??

 

2017 was seeing what they had before clearing out.  You seem to be disconnected from the word “build” 

[BillsFan1988]

16 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

What happens next season if they go 7-9 or even 8-8? Beane stays and McDermott goes?

 

Something tells me these guys are tied at the hip. It irks the hell out of me that two guys who've never done the job have more job security than GM's/Coaches in the league who've achieved serious success. I actually like McDermott more than I like Beane. Be a damn shame if McDermott were to get the ax because of Beane's blunders.

 

Only in Buffalo is this acceptable.

There defintely tied at the hip , Beane doesnt do anything without Mcd giving approval.

[Trogdor]

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Used Glenn to get Allen.  Everyone hollers they have to draft a QB, they do so, then it's how you should've concentrated on I line.

Trading your highly rated LT to get a QB never made sense. It might be how it happened, but I'm willing to bet there were better ways.

[Ol Dirty B]

On 12/24/2018 at 7:30 PM, PUNT750 said:

I really can’t believe the 3 year re-build plan for the Bills will have much success in 2019.  Regardless of 10 draft picks and $90 mil in cap space it doesn’t make sense.

 

 

Realistically we need new, quality;   O Lineman (3), WR (3), RB (2), LB (1), TE (1), DB (1), DL (1) 

 

 

That’s 12 total to be competitive!!

 

 

 

We’re going to have to over-pay for quality, top tier free-agents to come to Buffalo.  We all know the risks with drafts picks in their rookie seasons (Zay Jones, Teller, McCloud and even Edmunds).  It just doesn’t happen.

 

 

I love believing in the PROCESS but with a young, raw QB who is still unproven while trying to blend a plethora of new players into a competent NFL team seems unrealistic.  It may sell tickets but not win a lot of games.

 

 

GO BILLS!

 

So you're punting on 2019 already to keep him employed? Because you realize they created a lot of these holes and drafted poorly.

 

 

[oldmanfan]

12 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Trading your highly rated LT to get a QB never made sense. It might be how it happened, but I'm willing to bet there were better ways.

Your chronically injured LT 

[That_Guy]

gonna be a looooong off-season

[Bing Bong]

It's virtually impossible the way I see all the improvements necessary. I don't trust the process . But I want to see it succeed and I'm happy with our quarterback for the 2nd time in the drought since Tyrod's first year.

 

All I'm asking for is a marked improvement. Not necessarily in record. But stopping these blowouts and playing good teams at least competitively.. no more games where we leave the first half with virtually no chance of winning and the opponent clearly cruising the rest of the game. Beating the bad teams, more convincing wins. I didn't want a long rebuld nor thought over 3 years was necessary.. but this is the brain trust we're rolling with so barring absolutely no improvement with what we have to go with this off-season ( which would give me serious doubts this regime can do anything with all that they've torn down) I'm okay with a 4 to 5 year plan. It sucks.. but I'll just have to hope for improvement EVERY year. 

 

That's what we should be banking on and give no more excuses if that's not happening.

 

[mjt328]

On 12/24/2018 at 6:30 PM, PUNT750 said:

I really can’t believe the 3 year re-build plan for the Bills will have much success in 2019.  Regardless of 10 draft picks and $90 mil in cap space it doesn’t make sense.

 

 

Realistically we need new, quality;   O Lineman (3), WR (3), RB (2), LB (1), TE (1), DB (1), DL (1) 

 

 

That’s 12 total to be competitive!!

 

 

Look through the top teams in the NFL.  Saints, Rams, Chiefs, Patriots, etc.

None of those teams are without flaws.  All have weak positions that need to be upgraded.

Bottom line, the Bills don't need to have 22 top starters and 31 top backups in order to join these franchises.

 

Now looking through your list...

You really believe we need THREE new wide receivers and TWO new running backs just to be "competitive"? 

You really think our current defense (ranked #2) cannot compete without upgrades at linebacker, cornerback and defensive line?

Maybe I don't understand your definition of the word competitive.

 

 

On 12/24/2018 at 6:30 PM, PUNT750 said:

 

We’re going to have to over-pay for quality, top tier free-agents to come to Buffalo.  We all know the risks with drafts picks in their rookie seasons (Zay Jones, Teller, McCloud and even Edmunds).  It just doesn’t happen.

 

I love believing in the PROCESS but with a young, raw QB who is still unproven while trying to blend a plethora of new players into a competent NFL team seems unrealistic.  It may sell tickets but not win a lot of games.

 

GO BILLS!

 

Everyone needs to overpay for the quality, top-tier free agents.  That's just the way free agency works.  At least we have the dollars to invest this year.

We've gotten some valuable contributions from free agents like Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer in recent years (even without being overly aggressive), so why is it totally unbelievable to think we can get some help this year?

 

The Bills are going to win 5-6 games, in a season where Nathan Peterman (possibly the worst QB ever to step on an NFL field) started twice and Derek Anderson (only signed to hold a clipboard) started twice.  We were also a finger-tip catch away from another victory in Miami.  We basically punted away a quarter of our games, then spent the rest of our season developing a rookie QB. 

 

Now let's say we get the post-bye Josh Allen for a full 16 games next year, instead of the quarterback mess we experienced in 2018. 

And let's say we are successful in upgrading just a couple positions along the O-Line with solid veterans, so we are just "average" instead of "terrible."

And let's say we add maybe 1-2 more decent receiving weapons, and draft a younger running back to replace Shady.

 

Is it really totally UNREALISTIC to think the Bills could win 10-11 games in 2019 (which could win them the AFC East), with just a handful of upgrades on the offensive side of the ball?  I don't think so.

 

 

 

 

[The Now Moment]

Who here saw us as a playoff team last year?

[Dave Allen]

The problem is that some fans' expectations are too high. The Bills are aiming for long-term, high-level competitiveness, and there are too many holes to fill to reach that mark in 2019. I doubt they are going to try to cram a bunch of overpaid free agents and overreached draft picks just to aim for a playoff spot next year, at the expense of long-term success. 

 

If the team can draft solidly again next year - I'd expect a WR, OL and a DL/CB in the first few rounds, and the same in free agency - then they should take a good step forward. But significant upgrades at 11 different starting positions is unlikely in one offseason.  

[row_33]

Hope it works out better this time around

 

we have an Amen Corner here already determining every move will be optimal and add to the team jumping to 11 wins next year....

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

16 minutes ago, row_33 said:

...we have an Amen Corner here already determining every move will be optimal and add to the team jumping to 11 wins next year....

Geez.  That will play havoc with the Tank in 2019 Corner here.  ?

[oldmanfan]

I may have missed it, but did McD and Beane every say they had a three year turn around plan?  Or is that made up in the mind of the OP?  I did hear them say they had short and long term goals, to make the franchise consistently competitive.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I may have missed it, but did McD and Beane every say they had a three year turn around plan?  Or is that made up in the mind of the OP?  I did hear them say they had short and long term goals, to make the franchise consistently competitive.

 

This.  The whole conversation is so bizarre.  They are in year two and have made the playoffs, have the number two defense in the league, closed out the rookie year of their new franchise QB, and have the cap space to let them make whatever moves they would like.  This team is set up for success.  

 

I can't even imagine how this board could not be overly optimistic.  

[LSHMEAB]

On 12/26/2018 at 10:15 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

2017 was seeing what they had before clearing out.  You seem to be disconnected from the word “build” 

I don't know man. I like your optimism, but these guys so far have been better at imploding buildings than constructing new ones.

[row_33]

On 12/26/2018 at 11:09 PM, TheBeaneBandit said:

More like a 3 year sham.......

 

We've chosen a dud of a franchise to cheer for

 

45 years and I’ve seen 6 great and roughly 6 above good seasons.

 

you just have to embrace the suck of cheering for the Bills

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I don't know man. I like your optimism, but these guys so far have been better at imploding buildings than constructing new ones.

 

So, you don't see any of the following as positives:

1. Taking a below average team and winning 9 games and breaking the 17 year streak with a guy everyone here said would never play a playoff game as a starter in Tyrod.
   1. Additionally, had all the WR's get hurt to where we were starting scrubs off the street some games, not to mention the OL injuries, Tyrod injury, Clay and McCoy injuries, and secondary injuries all to key players.  McD still somehow got this team to win 9 games, and had Zay not screwed up the final play week 2, we would have won 10.
2. Beane said it would take him 2 full offseason to fix the cap, he did it in just over 1.  Some teams takes years to accomplish this.
3. Had back to back strong drafts finding quality starters, elite starters, and guys loaded with potential up and down the draft.  
4. Getting a premium pick for Tyrod when this board said he was only worth a case of beer.
5. Managing to move up the draft WITHOUT giving up future picks, especially future first rounders while somehow trading up multiple times in the first round.
6. Got rid of guys who either didn't fit the culture and future or were not going to be able to be resigned and getting good value back for each of them.  
7. Managed to rebuild our defense from bottom 5 to a top 5 unit quickly.
8. Found some quality contributors in rookie UDFA and off other teams PS.  I mean Foster is looking like a potential high quality #2 WR or better if he can keep improving.  
9. Set the foundation for the future with that top 5 D, our QB already in place, a few extra picks (to draft or use to move around draft to get guys they covet), and $90m in cap space.  

So what are all the gripes?  Let me see if I can cover it all...

1. "Got rid of everyone so our offense was a joke".  I hear this one a LOT...and its false.  It is completely false.  Woods and Goodwin left on their own, and that was also before Beane was here.  The only WR they got rid of was Sammy, and they got rid of him because they were never going to be able to resign him to a deal they were comfortable with and managed to get a 2nd round pick and quality player who contributed to us making the playoffs...which we did of course without Sammy.  I mean Sammy is making $16m a year yet hasn't broke 1000 yards in 4 years.  
   1. They traded Glenn, who was underperforming to his deal big time due to injury and decline.  Was a good move as well as it helped us get the QB they coveted, and I would MUCH rather have Allen plus our first round pick this year then to have NOT traded Glenn and had to throw in this years first to move up to as high as 7.  This is what people dont understand, had we NOT traded Glenn we would have had to 100% include this years first to move up for a QB.  
   2. They traded Tryod, and this doest even need explaining.  It was clear we were not going to truly contend with him, and we some how had Beane the Magician get Cleveland to give us the first pick in the 3rd round for a guy most assumed we would cut or would only fetch a 5th at best given we were going after a new QB anyway.
2. "Signed Star to a bad contract" - Is it really that bad?  We have $90m in cap space, and most of what Star doesn't show up on stat sheets.  We are a top defense already this year, and this includes periods where Allen was hurt and our offense kept the defense on the field most the game.  So is this that big of a deal where it negates everything positive?  No.
3. "Wasted a 3rd on Kelvin" - No we didn't, we literally made the playoffs BECAUSE of Kelvin, and that is the ONLY reason they traded for him.  Every WR on our team was hurt and we were in think of playoff race.  They went and got a guy who made plays for us that heavily contributed to a couple wins and without those plays we dont snap playoff streak.  So he returned the value they invested in, and that was help us make playoffs.  Then when KB fell off a cliff this year, they didn't worry about looking bad, they went ahead and cut him to make room for Foster and the younger guys.
4. "Failed to address WR and OL" - Again, false.  We had a lot of dead $ on the cap, so they didn't have a lot of financial flexibility.  Coming into the season, more was expected from both KB and Zay.  We lost 3 OL starters, all Pro Bowlers on the OL, and thats not easy to replace especially when you are gearing up to trade up for a QB.  They again didn't have the cap room and went with some of their young guys.  This year was never about "being a finished product", it was field the best team they can while in the cap situation so they can really start improving the weak areas this year.  
5. "Didn't Bring in a vet QB soon enough" - Sure, this one could have happened sooner but who really cares in the first place?.  But at the same time, people completely fail to understand something about this.  We had a rookie QB they were focused on working with as much as possible to get him ready.  Original plan during 3rd preseason game was to start Allen week 1.  That game didn't go well, so they decided to work with him more before starting him.  To bring in another QB at that point means less time they have to work with Allen as its difficult to get a QB up to speed and ready to play.  So its understandable that they kept their focus on Allen, especially since NP fooled a lot of people with his preseason (not me, but many people).  Once they had worked with Allen a while, they decided it was time to bring in a vet.

So here is where I sit...does the bottom (most of which IMHO is mostly misstated, over exaggerated, or just not as bad as people think) out weight the top positives?  Its not even close in my book, the top grossly out weighs the bottom and this is why I am bullish on both McD and Beane.  No GM is going to be perfect, all have more misses than hits.  Same with HC's, none are perfect and make mistakes or questionable decisions all the time.  But the great ones have more positives that out weigh the negatives, and so far, I feel strongly that both McD and Beane have a stronger list of positives.  

[BullBuchanan]

On 12/26/2018 at 2:50 PM, reddogblitz said:

 

Why?

 

The Cowboys in 1975 went to the Super Bowl with 12 rookies.  2 of them were offensive lineman.  

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Dozen_(American_football)

 

This the kind of draft performance  coupled with really good FA signing we need if "THE PROCESS" has any chance of success.

 

We've had McDermott and Beane's first year and mulligan tank year.  2019 is time to put up or shut up. No more excuses.

 

My bottom line for next year is we better be at least "in the hunt" going into week 17.

 

 

A couple things have changed in the last 50 years.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 12/27/2018 at 1:15 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

2017 was seeing what they had before clearing out.  You seem to be disconnected from the word “build” 

 

...yup 'Dawg......and McBeane is going to do so principally through the draft.........19 of the 22 starters on the Steelers' 2009 SB club were acquired through the draft.....and somebody posted a McBeane quote (paraphrasing) about FA....."we assign a value to a player and that's it".......so even though the "89% spend rule" somewhat forces his hand, he'll be value shopping and carrying over the 11% to 2020 IMO........

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...yup 'Dawg......and McBeane is going to do so principally through the draft.........19 of the 22 starters on the Steelers' 2009 SB club were acquired through the draft.....and somebody posted a McBeane quote (paraphrasing) about FA....."we assign a value to a player and that's it".......so even though the "89% spend rule" somewhat forces his hand, he'll be value shopping and carrying over the 11% to 2020 IMO........

 

As he should...you dont build a Super Bowl winner in one Free Agency.  Better to spend wisely and keep adding each year.  Look at the Rams, they did that at first and then went to crazy town and are in trouble long term.  They are in a "you better win now" mode because the way they did contracts means they are going to be in cap hell soon enough.  They went all in on a SB this year or next, but when Goff contract comes up, this team is getting gutted and they could regress heavily if they dont draft well.  

 

I have confidence in Beane finding the right mix of pieces to start contending next year and building a long term contender.