Barnwell: Progress Report on 2018 1st Round QBs

[DCOrange]

The Josh Allen section is too long IMO to quote the whole thing, but it's the very first section of the article.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25518645/rookie-nfl-quarterback-progress-reports-2018-draft-picks-shown-far

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

I sort of took the article as click bait and moved on.  I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that he hasn't at least gotten better since his first few starts. 

[blacklabel]

Holy pile of garbage, Batman. Maybe I'm biased because I wouldn't mind seeing 10,000 birds take a dump on Barnwell but most of his words on Allen are crap. He basically blames everything on him while failing to acknowledge that the kid has carried the entire offense for the last three games. He also places Clay's drop on him. "Failed to hit a wide open Clay in the end zone." Writing that way is so misleading of what happened on the actual play. Most QB's don't even get the ball anywhere near Clay in the fashion that Allen did. Avoided pressure, running to his left and throws 40 yards down field to his right, sorry it can't be a pinpoint perfect pass, but it was in the ballpark and Clay knows he should've had it.

 

The other negative stuff he writes about is junk all rookie QBs face. 

[JerseyBills]

I'm only on the second paragraph, where he states "so far the Bills have gotten a less impressive version of Tyrod" and already see where this article is headed. In his first 5 starts he was overall pretty rough but the last 3 he has exceeded Taylor heavily in the pass game as well as with his legs! Just last week, people forget, his last drive, where he made 3 big time clutch throws that Taylor would never even attempt, as well as his 3rd down beautiful back shoulder throw to Zay around the 5 yard line that was actually called a catch and is a perfect example of how little help Allen has received from his WR corp. The pass was eventually overruled as incomplete, barely , but it should have been the 4th super impressive throw on the drive and set them up lovely with 1st n goal inside the 10 !

The previous week? He magically avoids an instant pass rush from his atrocious OL on the final play, on the road and his veteran , highly paid TE dropped what would have been another GW pass from this "bust". LoL. Bills fans are highly objective over Allen and the majority of us see what i see and that is just tremendous upside and potential as soon as next year. We all see he has an absolutely atrocious OL that all these writers fail to bring up. I just don't understand how this dude can make these type of comments if he has watched the last 3 games, where he is only 1-2 , but if his ST and OL is just average, he is 3-0 and even with them being ATROCIOUS, he still should have had 2 game winning drives with passes that should have been caught. 

 

I'm as excited as ive ever been, especially for a 4-9 team, I cannot wait til next year where we get to see our FRANCHISE QB with upgraded playmakers and OL shred defenses and these so called experts will have no choice but to report on his amazing skills accurately, because right now he is not getting a fair shake by the national media, who seem like they have a clear agenda against him and are rooting for him to fail and fail themselves to add any insight to why his numbers are so low. Dude is a stud, period, and I'm not no Allen fanboy , i'm just a die hard  Bills fan that calls it how i see it.

 

Meanwhile , the very first paragraph on Darnold, who has 20 points lower QBR, is how he has the worse supporting cast and no OL , but that was never mentioned with Allen, even when talking about the REASON he is scrambling so much. These guys are either not watching the film, which i doubt, or have that much hatred towards Allen, its truly pathetic and just clear biased takes by so many national writers. Not sure I've ever seen this much hate towards a rookie QB.

Edited December 13, 2018 by JerseyBills

[Bray Wyatt]

He brings up Darnold needs protection etc. but neglects that in Allen's analysis. Darnold is 7th most pressured, but iirc Allen is #1, may be something he would want to bring up in his analysis right? At least he did acknowledge the wrs

[jletha]

Barnwell pretty clearly has always had a disdain for the Bills. Ive read his stuff going back to the Grantland days and he always found the most pessimistic view on our moves. I never quite understood it. One time I defended a move they made on twitter and he instantly blocked me.

 

I really am not one of those guys that thinks the media members hate certain teams but I really do think Barnwell doesnt like Buffalo.

[NewEra]

If you haven’t clicked on it yet, don’t waste your time.  

[BillnutinHouston]

I'm not clicking on that - based on the reviews above I'll declare it fake news.

 

Barnwell, Schopp and others who believe religiously in analytics have a huge vested interest in seeing that Allen is judged as a failure.  To do anything else would undercut their core beliefs, and they are far too arrogant to allow that.  

[billsintaiwan]

Garbage read. This team and Allen remind me so much of Kelly's first year. Hung around games, found a way to lose, but young and talented. Need a few more pieces, but there is hope.

[RyanC883]

Didn't read it, but the claim is that Allen hasn't gotten better? 

 

Allen is still shaky in a number of ways, most notably accuracy and touch on intermediate passes. 

 

But Allen has MUCH better pocket awareness than he did in the beginning of the season.  Which is good, since his pocket basically lasts 1 second with this OL. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by RyanC883

[zow2]

Didn't read the entire article.  Just hope Allen continues to get better.   One thing i mentioned yesterday in a thread is I expect Kiko Alonso to cheap shot Allen or go head hunting when Miami comes north on Dec. 30th.   The fact that he highlighted Kiko getting embarrassed in his article, re-emphasizes that.  

[PurpLegacy]

His predetermined disdain for Allen is pretty easy to pick up on. Writes an entire paragraph on Allen taking too many big hits but according to him, Lamar Jackson has been doing a great job at avoiding them. I've watched Jackson's touches and he has been getting lit up with hits. Also doesn't mention anything about Lamar's hideous throwing motion. 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

yep, read it all and it's pretty inaccurate outside of Baker Granted Baker has been the best of the bunch which is why he was drafted #1 but Barnell is on his knees for the kid while he's pulling a reverse cowboy on Allen.

[Bob in NoCal]

OP,  thank you for posting the article. I am now better educated with the knowledge to avoid all future articles by Bill Barnwell. 

[JoPar_v2]

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

I sort of took the article as click bait and moved on.  I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that he hasn't at least gotten better since his first few starts. 

Barnwell is not clickbait. He’s posted more meaningful NFL pieces in the last 3 years than Peter King has in the last 30. Keep homering it up tho makes you look smart.

[thenorthremembers]

Ill summarize for those who dont want to waste their time:

 

Allen:  He isnt as good as Tyrod Taylor, why did the Bills bother.  (Comparing a rookie and a 8+ Year Veteran pretty much negates his entire argument)

Allen Summary:  He has to be more accurate, his wideouts aren't good but it's not their fault they have a 2nd in the NFL drop rate of 5.4

 

Darnold Summary: His offensive line is bad, his supporting cast, and coaches all suck.  It isnt Darnold's fault they have a 4. whatever percent drop rate.  Darnold needs a better supporting cast:

 

Jackson Summary:  Jackson is going to get hurt running so much, and he needs to stop turning the ball over so much

 

Mayfield Summary: Baker is already a Franchise QB

 

Rosen Summary: He really doesnt deserve all the negativity.  He is on his 2nd coordinator and has so many injuries on his team.  His scheme makes him suck, but man look at how good his footwork is.   He will be so much better next year.

 

Overall Summary:  I really liked Mayfield, Darnold and Rosen coming out and didnt like Jackson or Allen.

[C.Biscuit97]

OMG!!! He didn’t say our qb with a 63 QB rating and a 5 td to 9 int ratio is awesome!!! What a loser!!!

 

if you are an outsider looking at the Bills, it looks like a bad move for the Bills.  They moved on from a limited but safe qb who helped them get to the playoffs for one who is a good runner and a struggling passer.  Obviously as Bills fans, we know there were issues with Tyrod.  But y’all are so sensitive.  Allen is exciting, seems to have a great attitude, and has every physical tool you want.  He also is having a worse rookie season than EJ.  Obviously, he is getting more time.  But if Allen was on another team, we probably won’t think he was that good either. 

[seregil42]

While some of the things he wrote are true, most of this is terrible and seems to be trying to fit a preconceived notion.

[Ramza86]

Lol.....you can tell this guy hasnt seen one Bills game. 

[C.Biscuit97]

24 minutes ago, Bob in NoCal said:

OP,  thank you for posting the article. I am now better educated with the knowledge to avoid all future articles by Bill Barnwell. 

This is hilarious and it’s why our country is so divided.  If someone doesn’t have the opinion I have, they are wrong!!!!

 

there is plenty of stuff he writes I don’t agree with but he makes good uses of analytics and always has decent reasoning for his points.  But to think everyone who doesn’t say Allen or the Bills are awesome is out to get us makes us look a bit crazy.  Allen has some work to do.  It’s also funny that you ignore him posting clips of Allen embarrassing Kiko or stating that he doesn’t have good receivers.  Stop being so sensitive.

Edited December 13, 2018 by C.Biscuit97

[mabden]

Based on QBRs alone, Allen is the best of the bunch, but you wouldn't know that based on the word salad this guy barfed up.   Did not have time to read much beyond the 3rd paragraph and skimmed the rest.  Even that was a waste of time.

[hondo in seattle]

Nobody knows if Allen is going to be a franchise QB.

 

On the one hand, anyone who says he's so bad that it's just not going to happen is either delusional or just not watching.   Allen has proven his ability to make big time NFL throws.  The question is: can he do it consistently?  And that depends on his biomechanics, ability to read defenses & find receivers, the talent around him, and all that.   NFL QBs sometimes get better and sometimes they don't.  There's no foolproof way of prognosticating this.  

 

On the other hand, those who think it's certain that Allen will be franchise QB are also delusional.  There's just no guarantee.  

 

In the end, one camp will be proven right and we'll hear the gloating told-you-so's.   But any certainty at either end of the spectrum at this point is misguided.  

 

As I fan I see positive signs.  I see why Beane drafted the kid and hope for the best.  I don't care at all what Barnwell thinks or writes.  

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

Nobody knows if Allen is going to be a franchise QB.

 

On the one hand, anyone who says he's so bad that it's just not going to happen is either delusional or just not watching.   Allen has proven his ability to make big time NFL throws.  The question is: can he do it consistently?  And that depends on his biomechanics, ability to read defenses & find receivers, the talent around him, and all that.   NFL QBs sometimes get better and sometimes they don't.  There's no foolproof way of prognosticating this.  

 

On the other hand, those who think it's certain that Allen will be franchise QB are also delusional.  There's just no guarantee.  

 

In the end, one camp will be proven right and we'll hear the gloating told-you-so's.   But any certainty at either end of the spectrum at this point is misguided.  

 

As I fan I see positive signs.  I see why Beane drafted the kid and hope for the best.  I don't care at all what Barnwell thinks or writes.  

 

 

I agree with you but did you honestly read the article?

[Dr. Who]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This is hilarious and it’s why our country is so divided.  If someone doesn’t have the opinion I have, they are wrong!!!!

 

there is plenty of stuff he writes I don’t agree with but he makes good uses of analytics and always has decent reasoning for his points.  But to think everyone who doesn’t say Allen or the Bills are awesome is out to get us makes us look a bit crazy.  Allen has some work to do.  It’s also funny that you ignore him posting clips of Allen embarrassing Kiko or stating that he doesn’t have good receivers.  Stop being so sensitive.

I'm fine with dialectic and rational opposition to my views. Biased opinion with bad arguments and special pleading is going to be deservedly repudiated. Since you are inclined to the negative assessment of Allen, you're apparently not bothered by it.

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

As a joke I was going to start to call Allen...Taller Tyrod.

 

results still don’t seem to feel much different.   Under 300 yard thrower with running numbers.  Only 1-2 Tds a game.  Offense still at the bottom of the league in offense and scoring.  1-2 deep balls a game and those are usually incomplete.

 

thats Taylor as a veteran and Allen as a rookie.  Which I guess is a positive as Allen as rookie is producing like Taylor as a vet.

 

excpet for completion percentage which Taylor has him on.

[DCOrange]

9 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

Lol.....you can tell this guy hasnt seen one Bills game. 

 

The article literally includes clips that he took while watching the Bills games.

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

OMG!!! He didn’t say our qb with a 63 QB rating and a 5 td to 9 int ratio is awesome!!! What a loser!!!

 

if you are an outsider looking at the Bills, it looks like a bad move for the Bills.  They moved on from a limited but safe qb who helped them get to the playoffs for one who is a good runner and a struggling passer.  Obviously as Bills fans, we know there were issues with Tyrod.  But y’all are so sensitive.  Allen is exciting, seems to have a great attitude, and has every physical tool you want.  He also is having a worse rookie season than EJ.  Obviously, he is getting more time.  But if Allen was on another team, we probably won’t think he was that good either. 

 

They moved on from Tyrod because he was a struggling passer and it continued every year even into Cleveland.  The excuse for Taylor is that he had a terrible supporting cast last year....this is even a worse cast with Allen.  

 

Sam Darnold is also having a worse year than EJ's rookie year.  Jared Goff also had a worse rookie season than EJ.  These are just based on box score scouting.

 

If you look at the improvement of Allen, he's ahead of EJ.  Compare Allen now to Allen week 2....there's growth.  EJ never grew and actually regressed as the season went on.

 

In this article, why is it okay to say that Darnold's struggles are attributed to his supporting cast but for Allen....it's because he's struggling?

 

C. Bisquit...do you believe that we are very talented on offense and Allen is the reason why it's not an overall very good unit?

[Ramza86]

2 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

The article literally includes clips that he took while watching the Bills games.

 

So that makes his article worse then doesnt it. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

30 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Barnwell is not clickbait. He’s posted more meaningful NFL pieces in the last 3 years than Peter King has in the last 30. Keep homering it up tho makes you look smart.

 

That's so laughable on SO many levels. I can't even.

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Joe in Winslow

[JoPar_v2]

4 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

That's so laughable on SO many levels. I cant' even.

 

 

It’s the truth. The guy is one of the few insightful NFL writers still out there. Maybe sit down and read some of his stuff. Peter King has been a shill for the league for at least 10 years. Let me guess, you miss his coffee stories? Awww...

Edited December 13, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[nedboy7]

The bias on here is just stupid. 

10 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

As a joke I was going to start to call Allen...Taller Tyrod.

 

results still don’t seem to feel much different.   Under 300 yard thrower with running numbers.  Only 1-2 Tds a game.  Offense still at the bottom of the league in offense and scoring.  1-2 deep balls a game and those are usually incomplete.

 

thats Taylor as a veteran and Allen as a rookie.  Which I guess is a positive as Allen as rookie is producing like Taylor as a vet.

 

excpet for completion percentage which Taylor has him on.

 

Yes it’s almost identical. 

Except. The record of the team!  

 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

17 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

Nobody knows if Allen is going to be a franchise QB.

 

On the one hand, anyone who says he's so bad that it's just not going to happen is either delusional or just not watching.   Allen has proven his ability to make big time NFL throws.  The question is: can he do it consistently?  And that depends on his biomechanics, ability to read defenses & find receivers, the talent around him, and all that.   NFL QBs sometimes get better and sometimes they don't.  There's no foolproof way of prognosticating this.  

 

On the other hand, those who think it's certain that Allen will be franchise QB are also delusional.  There's just no guarantee.  

 

In the end, one camp will be proven right and we'll hear the gloating told-you-so's.   But any certainty at either end of the spectrum at this point is misguided.  

 

As I fan I see positive signs.  I see why Beane drafted the kid and hope for the best.  I don't care at all what Barnwell thinks or writes.  

 

 

 

 

This is probably closest to the truth. There's no question that the trash O-line and lack of legit weapons have hurt him and probably has gotten into his head a little bit in terms of him bailing out of the pocket early at times, and I do agree that while his abilities as a runner is an overall positive, he needs to be smarter about it and limit the abuse he takes. I actually think he's done a better job of that in the last couple of games. 

 

But I don't think it can be assumed that the issues will automatically be resolved with a better o-line and upgraded weapons either, I don't think we've seen enough to determine that. 

 

I'm optimistic about him too though. This is a playmaker's league and the dude is a playmaker. He's a way different QB than Luck so I'm not comparing their skill sets...but he reminds me of the way Luck at the beginning of his career was constantly looking to push the ball downfield, which I think he's getting more freedom to do again with Reich in now.  I loved it, and I love that Allen has that mentality so far. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by HomeskillitMoorman

[nedboy7]

4 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

It’s the truth. The guy is one of the few insightful NFL writers still out there. Maybe sit down and read some of his stuff. Peter King has been a shill for the league for at least 10 years. Let me guess, you miss his coffee stories? Awww...

 

Yes he is a good writer. The fanboys on this site can’t even consider a different opinion.  

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, blacklabel said:

Holy pile of garbage, Batman. Maybe I'm biased because I wouldn't mind seeing 10,000 birds take a dump on Barnwell but most of his words on Allen are crap. He basically blames everything on him while failing to acknowledge that the kid has carried the entire offense for the last three games. He also places Clay's drop on him. "Failed to hit a wide open Clay in the end zone." Writing that way is so misleading of what happened on the actual play. Most QB's don't even get the ball anywhere near Clay in the fashion that Allen did. Avoided pressure, running to his left and throws 40 yards down field to his right, sorry it can't be a pinpoint perfect pass, but it was in the ballpark and Clay knows he should've had it.

 

The other negative stuff he writes about is junk all rookie QBs face. 

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face, but that was a bad throw to Clay. Objectively so.

[dave mcbride]

26 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

OMG!!! He didn’t say our qb with a 63 QB rating and a 5 td to 9 int ratio is awesome!!! What a loser!!!

 

if you are an outsider looking at the Bills, it looks like a bad move for the Bills.  They moved on from a limited but safe qb who helped them get to the playoffs for one who is a good runner and a struggling passer.  Obviously as Bills fans, we know there were issues with Tyrod.  But y’all are so sensitive.  Allen is exciting, seems to have a great attitude, and has every physical tool you want.  He also is having a worse rookie season than EJ.  Obviously, he is getting more time.  But if Allen was on another team, we probably won’t think he was that good either. 

This. The blind homerism is strong here, my friend.

Edited December 13, 2018 by dave mcbride

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, blacklabel said:

Holy pile of garbage, Batman. Maybe I'm biased because I wouldn't mind seeing 10,000 birds take a dump on Barnwell but most of his words on Allen are crap. He basically blames everything on him while failing to acknowledge that the kid has carried the entire offense for the last three games. He also places Clay's drop on him. "Failed to hit a wide open Clay in the end zone." Writing that way is so misleading of what happened on the actual play. Most QB's don't even get the ball anywhere near Clay in the fashion that Allen did. Avoided pressure, running to his left and throws 40 yards down field to his right, sorry it can't be a pinpoint perfect pass, but it was in the ballpark and Clay knows he should've had it.

 

The other negative stuff he writes about is junk all rookie QBs face. 

 

Barnwell is still in love with the Browns backup iirc

[dave mcbride]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I'm fine with dialectic and rational opposition to my views. Biased opinion with bad arguments and special pleading is going to be deservedly repudiated. Since you are inclined to the negative assessment of Allen, you're apparently not bothered by it.

Why is it biased opinion and why are the arguments bad? Is Josh Allen better than what the performance output says he is so far? Don't get me wrong - I like him and think the sky is the limit. But he's simply not accurate enough at present (watch other good qbs and you'll see what I mean), and if he doesn't fix that, he's going to struggle to succeed. I can't believe people don't see this. Only Bills homer fans would zero in on Charles Clay alone for that throw-and-catch failure at the end of the Miami game. It was a straight-up inaccurate wounded duck rotating like a helicopter. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by dave mcbride

[Teddy KGB]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Why is it biased opinion and why are the arguments bad? Is Josh Allen better than what the performance output says he is so far? Don't get me wrong - I like him and think the sky is the limit. But he's simply not accurate enough at present (watch other good qbs and you'll see what I mean), and if he doesn't fix that, he's going to struggle to succeed. I can't believe people don't see this. Only Bills homer fans would zero in on Charles Clay alone for that throw-and-catch failure at the end of the Miami game. It was a straight-up inaccurate wounded duck rotating like a helicopter. 

 

That 92% of nfl tight ends catch or higher ? 

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Why is it biased opinion and why are the arguments bad? Is Josh Allen better than what the performance output says he is so far? Don't get me wrong - I like him and think the sky is the limit. But he's simply not accurate enough at present (watch other good qbs and you'll see what I mean), and if he doesn't fix that, he's going to struggle to succeed. I can't believe people don't see this. Only Bills homer fans would zero in on Charles Clay alone for that throw-and-catch failure at the end of the Miami game. It was a straight-up inaccurate wounded duck rotating like a helicopter. 

 

That traveled what, 40 yards in the air after being chased to the sideline and thrown off balance? Yeah. I'll continue to blame Charles Clay on that one.

 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Teddy KGB said:

 

That 92% of nfl tight ends catch or higher ? 

 

 

I don't understand what you are saying or what the percentage refers to.