BuffaLoko Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, Romie said: Really I think it was both. Not the best pass, but there's dudes out there that would have pulled it off. I would defer of calling this ¨not the best pass¨, in the context of an accountability discussion, when ¨my QB (Crying and all like TO)¨, did at least 3 OLEEE (bullfighter like) against the furious tuna LBers, before he threw it...Clay was asked to do just one half of that effort, and looking back to the video, I think he tiptoed because he wanted to catch the ball IN THE EZ! instead of going one step out of EZ and pulling the ball back!! IMHO a HUGE mental misstep for an 7.5 Mill-per guy! Edited December 3, 2018 by BuffaLoko spell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 "hands of Clay" . I dont know if I should laugh or cry. https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article222522605.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 hour ago, teef said: it wasn't perfect, or even pretty, but allen did what he could to put this team on his back and score points. if/once the game slows down for him, allen could be a tremendous qb. All I want every week is some progress and improvement. We are seeing that, and it’s more important than getting a win yesterday. I hope he can stay safe and keep growing into the role. He looked like a leader yesterday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Not the best throw but I don't think you can expect pinpoint accuracy after the kid just ran away from two pass rushers and then unloaded the ball to his right as he was running to his left. Sure, woulda been nice if the ball just floated right to Clay and hit him in the numbers right where he stood but either way, the ball hit him in the hands and he dropped it. Gotta catch that. Clay would tell you it's on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 For years people complained we didn't have a QB that would throw a guy open. Now we have a QB who throws a catchable, game winnable ball, to a spot where the only person who can catch it is the receiver - and fans whine the pass wasn't good enough. It was a decent pass. The receiver epically failed at his primary job duty because he was more worried about keeping his feet in the endzone rather than catching the ball first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 hour ago, MPT said: No they're not. They're saying what every reasonable person is saying. It should have been caught, but it could have also been a better pass. Given the circumstances and duress Allen was under, to chuck that ball across his body and field to have it hit Clay right in the hands and be dropped it is 100% on Clay. The pass was absolutely there, you can't argue that it wasn't. Go outside and run to your left and try and throw anything back to your right and get back to us telling us how "easy" it was! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 hour ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said: As others have said, Clay misjudged the ball coming in, leading to the oh sh** dive and subsequent slip. With Allen's normal bullets you have to assume those guys first reaction is that it's not going to be short. Once the scramble started maybe he thought Allen was done for and didn't move back toward him because Allen did some amazing things to keep it alive. Clay should have been working back as soon as Allen broke outside the pocket and he should have realized that the cross field throw would not have a lot of mustard on it. If Clay was a rook, I could forgive all that, as a vet he needs to make the play. It's on him. Yep. Like an outfielder playing deep and realizing too late that the ball hung up on him enough for him to charge in and make the catch ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, PolishDave said: For years people complained we didn't have a QB that would throw a guy open. Now we have a QB who throws a catchable, game winnable ball, to a spot where the only person who can catch it is the receiver - and fans whine the pass wasn't good enough. It was a decent pass. The receiver epically failed at his primary job duty because he was more worried about keeping his feet in the endzone rather than catching the ball first. Agreed and to this, why was Clay hugging the endline? It's not like he could go back anymore to catch the ball. Had he been near the goalline he catches that for fun. Mental gaff on Clays part. Edited December 3, 2018 by pop gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 hour ago, MPT said: No they're not. They're saying what every reasonable person is saying. It should have been caught, but it could have also been a better pass. Not really....Howard said if he was to blame one person, he’d put the blame on Allen. Shows he knows nothing about football, but we already knew this for years 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnysteel Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 it's really both, but mostly on Clay. probably 80-20. the throw wasn't great (in fact, i saw a few ducks from Allen yesterday). my biggest issue is, why does Clay dive down instead of continuing to run back towards Allen? if he keeps running, he will be out of the end zone, but has a much better chance at catching. i can only assume he thought time was expiring and needed to catch the ball in the end zone. no other logical reason for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 10 minutes ago, wnysteel said: it's really both, but mostly on Clay. probably 80-20. the throw wasn't great (in fact, i saw a few ducks from Allen yesterday). my biggest issue is, why does Clay dive down instead of continuing to run back towards Allen? if he keeps running, he will be out of the end zone, but has a much better chance at catching. i can only assume he thought time was expiring and needed to catch the ball in the end zone. no other logical reason for it. oh no, he threw a few that didn't meet your demands do you get this attitude playing Madden and pushing the reset button every time things don't go your way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnysteel Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, row_33 said: oh no, he threw a few that didn't meet your demands do you get this attitude playing Madden and pushing the reset button every time things don't go your way? you are barking up the wrong tree....sorry. i'm a big Allen proponent. just commenting that he had a few bad throws is all. and by bad, i mean ducks, not a tight spiral. overall he was great yesterday Edited December 3, 2018 by wnysteel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Should Zay Jones caught the picture-perfect throw to him a play earlier despite mild-but-real interference (the type of interference that good receivers swat away like an annoying fly when they routinely make catches in that sort of situation)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) It was not a good pass in that Allen did not hit Clay with a perfect spiral between the numbers standing still by himself in the back of the end zone. But the thing is receivers and TEs have to make adjustments to catch the ball with regular frequency. And while not exactly a gimmie it was actually not that hard a catch for a NFL player to make. I have to think league wide in similar circumstances that ball is caught near 80% of the time. So 80% on Clay. Meanwhile Allen gets an A+ for escapability, extending the play, keeping his eyes downfield and finding a good target. In relative terms Clay was not being asked to do all that much. He's a highly paid professional. I'm sure he feels awful. But what's more important than the outcome of that play is Allen's inaccuracy, especially when on the move. This is clearly the result of a problem with his throwing mechanics/footwork that has been flagged for improvement from the get go. It also is the reason why some of his throws flutter or are flat out ducks. Clearing this stuff up remains job 1 IMO. Both his accuracy and his touch need to get better. Outside of that, I don't see many posters or pundits saying this morning that Josh Allen should have been drafted in the third round or later. Josh Allen has the wherewithal to dominate on an NFL playing field much in the same way that he stood out as a man amongst boys as a WYO Cowboy (forget the stats). That is nothing short of ridiculous. So by now it should be evident to all exactly what the bet was when the Bills drafted him. As has been said many times, Allen's physical skillset for playing the position is elite. It's only about whether he can iron out the wrinkles in his game. I think there is a good chance that he can and will and if he does the Bills certainly have their franchise QB. Edited December 3, 2018 by starrymessenger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Just wondering about the people who say it was a bad pass, what was bad about it? It traveled almost 45 yards in the air about 3 yards deep into the endzone, what was bad about it? Was it not a perfect spiral, because I'm not getting what was so bad about the last pass. Also had Clay caught that would people be saying what a great throw that was or what a great catch that was? 1 minute ago, starrymessenger said: It was not a good pass in that Allen did not hit Clay with a perfect spiral between the numbers standing still by himself in the back of the end zone. But the thing is receivers and TEs have to make adjustments to catch the ball with regular frequency. And while not exactly a gimmie it was actually not that hard a catch for a NFL player to make. I have to think league wide in similar circumstances that ball is caught near 80% of the time. So 80% on Clay. Meanwhile Allen gets an A+ for escapability, extending the play, keeping his eyes downfield and finding a good target. In relative terms Clay was not being asked to do all that much. He's a highly paid professional. I'm sure he feels awful. But what's more important than the outcome of that play is Allen's inaccuracy, especially when on the move. This is clearly the result of a problem with his throwing mechanics/footwork that has been flagged for improvement from the get go. It also is the reason why some of his throws flutter or are flat out ducks. Clearing this stuff up remains job 1 IMO. Both his accuracy and his touch need to get better. Outside of that, I don't see many posters or pundits saying this morning that Josh Allen should have been drafted in the third round or later. Josh Allen has the wherewithal to dominate on an NFL playing field exactly in the same way that he stood out as man amongst a WYO Cowboy (forget the stats). That is nothing short of ridiculous. So by now it should be evident to all exactly what the bet was when the Bills drafted him. As has been said many times, Allen's physical skillset for playing the position is elite. It's only about whether he can iron out the wrinkles in his game. I think there is a good chance that he can and will and if he does the Bills certainly have their franchise QB. Said it earlier, had the 4 obvious drops by WR that hit them square in both hands been caught and the last hail mary not been called (stupid coaching decision) Allens stats would have been 22-32 for 300+ yards and 3+ TDs Just stop with the lack of accuracy stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, pop gun said: Just wondering about the people who say it was a bad pass, what was bad about it? It traveled almost 45 yards in the air about 3 yards deep into the endzone, what was bad about it? Was it not a perfect spiral, because I'm not getting what was so bad about the last pass. Also had Clay caught that would people be saying what a great throw that was or what a great catch that was? Said it earlier, had the 4 obvious drops by WR that hit them square in both hands been caught and the last hail mary not been called (stupid coaching decision) Allens stats would have been 22-32 for 300+ yards and 3+ TDs Just stop with the lack of accuracy stuff Like I said, forget the stats (especially the one's that don't exist). I'll stop with the accuracy stuff when Josh cleans up his mechanics and becomes more consistent with it. If he can do that he's clearly franchise material. If he can't he will be limited and will not make the best use of his talent. People refer to the height of his ceiling. You want to keep the plays that make them say that and at the same time raise his floor so that the head scratchers become more the outliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Allen was running around for his life trying to buy time once he squared up and threw the football, it wasn't a perfect pass BUT it was a very catchable one. Clay just showed why he's a mid-tier player and not an elite one. An elite player snatches that with EASE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) I can’t fathom how anyone would classify that as a bad pass when factoring in all circumstances. Clay lost his footing, which made the catch more difficult and resulted in him failing to make a play that you have to make. If QB success was predicated on perfect throws, few QBs could have ever played well. The QBs job is to put the ball where only his receiver can make a play on the ball. Not only did he do that under extreme duress from a long way away, but it wasn’t that hard of a catch to make, pretty basic scoop where Clay had both hands on it. But Clay didn’t come back to the ball well and also lost his footing complicating the catch. We did not have to have a TD either, clay could have come back more and helped Josh. Plus even if he came back to 5 yard line he could have walked into endzone untouched. I love that Josh took ownership, but this was on Clay in my book. Edited December 3, 2018 by Alphadawg7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, NewEraBills said: Allen was running around for his life trying to buy time once he squared up and threw the football, it wasn't a perfect pass BUT it was a very catchable one. Clay just showed why he's a mid-tier player and not an elite one. An elite player snatches that with EASE. A mid-tier player should have been able to catch that. Hell anyone in the NFL should be able to catch that. We're talking about the cream of the crop in football, not lower levels. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg1029 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 It was both a bad pass and a drop. However..the fact that it was a catchable ball indicates that the bigger issue is the drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 It was wobbly. But only maybe 3 QBs in NFL can get the ball to the goalline with the way Josh was running... Allen, Mahomes, and Rodgers. That's it. No one else can make that throw. Clay has to catch that ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 18 hours ago, Gugny said: Should Clay have caught the ball? Or was it just a bad pass? It's both, add the option for both are to blame. You CANNOT put that play on one guy. Anyone that does is an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Boca BIlls said: It's both, add the option for both are to blame. You CANNOT put that play on one guy. Anyone that does is an idiot. This isn't very civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 In my opinion Clay gets the game ball....for Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeskillitMoorman Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Both, more on Clay. The other thing with Clay, which I'm sure has been mentioned somewhere here but I haven't gone through all 8 pages...not having the acumen to come back to the ball was a problem. We didn't have to have a TD there, it wasn't 4th and goal or the last play of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Little of both. Should have been caught Should have been a better pass (but then again only a handful of QBs could have even come close) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 This drop/bad pass (it was both) has the potential to earn the Bills a draft position 3-4 spots higher than if they completed the play. I'll take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Bad pass, worse drop. I still voted pass though. I think Allen could have corrected his feet and got it in there. He avoided their rush so well I don't think he realized how much time he gave himself. For Clay, he did about all he could. If he caught it, it would have been an incredible diving catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) What was wrong with the pass? It made into the endzone, what more is there? Edited December 4, 2018 by pop gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, pop gun said: What was wrong with the pass? I made into the endzone, what more is there? It did more than that: it hit Clay in his stone hands. He would have dropped a perfect spiral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Doc said: It did more than that: it hit Clay in his stone hands. He would have dropped a perfect spiral. True and I agree, but I don't understand why people say it was a bad pass, what was bad about it? It made at least 2 yards deep into the endzone, yet I keep seeing it referred to as a bad pass, why? No one can argue that it didn't get there, Clay dropped it, it's 100% on Clay. Edited December 3, 2018 by pop gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Boca BIlls said: It's both, add the option for both are to blame. You CANNOT put that play on one guy. Anyone that does is an idiot. Ayoooo tell me this isn't a drop- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohninMinn. Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 It looked like Clay was trying to keep two feet in the end zone. He had plenty of time to get underneath that thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 The pass is a super freaky play. The ball traveled well over 50 yards. Clay needs to gather himself and make the play. Only Mahomes or Rodgers could have made that pass. Clay was surprised by the pass coming to him and wasnt in good position to catch it. Mahomes get 5 passes caught like this a game. If Buffalo pass catchers dont get the ball on the numbers they dont catch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 16 minutes ago, Mat68 said: The pass is a super freaky play. The ball traveled well over 50 yards. Clay needs to gather himself and make the play. Only Mahomes or Rodgers could have made that pass. Clay was surprised by the pass coming to him and wasnt in good position to catch it. Mahomes get 5 passes caught like this a game. If Buffalo pass catchers dont get the ball on the numbers they dont catch it. maybe a miracle win would have been too much too soon for Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 25 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Ayoooo tell me this isn't a drop- Bad throw and a drop... did you not understand? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 It was on Clay as much as the drop against Carolina last season was on Zay. Not a great throw, but certainly catchable. Now if you spent last season bashing Tyrod Taylor for the throw against Carolina and are not claiming this was all on Clay, you're being intellectually dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Gugny said: This isn't very civil. What isnt civil is going one way or the other when both were *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 10 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: It was on Clay as much as the drop against Carolina last season was on Zay. Not a great throw, but certainly catchable. Now if you spent last season bashing Tyrod Taylor for the throw against Carolina and are not claiming this was all on Clay, you're being intellectually dishonest. not sure... what's the current fine and penalty for copping to being intellectually dishonest, but just this once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, row_33 said: not sure... what's the current fine and penalty for copping to being intellectually dishonest, but just this once It's more like having a little weed than a major offense. Most cops will let you go with a warning if you don't act like a prick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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