Allen now 3-2 in games he started & finished with arguably the worse supporting cast in nfl

[Luka]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Why do people think completion percentage equals accuracy?  

 

Because most fans have no idea what they are watching and are so drunk they can only focus on the negative. Maybe if they watched other football teams they would see every QB makes bad passes. I watched Brees throw a couple bad passes against the Falcons. Brady throws a duck or two a game. The only thing Allen is currently lacking is consistency and that just comes with reps.

Just now, Steptide said:

I don't think anyone's pissed. People just want better than 8 completed passes.

 

If it was on 30 attempts you might have a gripe.

[The Now Moment]

Just now, Luka said:

 

Because most fans have no idea what they are watching and are so drunk they can only focus on the negative. Maybe if they watched other football teams they would see every QB makes bad passes. I watched Brees throw a couple bad passes against the Falcons. Brady throws a duck or two a game. The only thing Allen is currently lacking is consistency and that just comes with reps.

That sums it up well.  The stats conversation drives me nuts.  Hoping he stays healthy down the stretch.  Would love for him to end the season with a winning record, maybe 4-2?  High hopes but they are a different offense with him in there.  Weapons have appeared lately in Foster and Mckenzie. 

[VW82]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Why do people think completion percentage equals accuracy?  

 

It's a pretty good indicator. Today Josh was under pressure a lot (as usual) so there were some throwaways that were actually good plays on his part. There were also several bad throws where he had time and just missed guys, particularly in the second half (like the one hoppers to Zay and Deonte). He made lots of plays with his legs and deserved the win but accuracy and inconsistency is clearly still an issue. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by VW82

[Johnnycage46]

5 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I don't think anyone's pissed. People just want better than 8 completed passes.

8 was enough...

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, Steptide said:

I don't think anyone's pissed. People just want better than 8 completed passes.

 

There's a few reasons he only had 8 completions today that have nothing to do with his skill as a passer.

 

1) We were committed to the run game. Not a surprise considering we have a rookie QB and were facing a tough defense with a poor offense.

2) Penalties and drops hurt us.

3) He averaged 20 yards per completion and was generally throwing downfield a lot. When you're throwing down the field that often not only are they lower percentage throws, but the completions shorten the drive which in turn leads to less completions. 8 completions for 160 yards vs 16 completions for 160 yards. The result is the same.

4) Allen was running the ball well. I argued this all the time while Tyrod was here, a run for 1st down counts exactly the same as a pass for 1st down. The endzone doesn't care how you get in.

[The Now Moment]

2 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

It's a pretty good indicator. Today Josh was under pressure a lot (as usual) so there were some throwaways that were actually good plays on his part. There were also several bad throws where he had time and just missed guys, particularly in the second half (like the one hoppers to Zay and Deonte). He made lots of plays with his legs and deserved the win but accuracy and inconsistency is clearly still an issue. 

I only saw maybe two bad throws.  Other incompletions were not due to his inaccuracy.  

[Albany,n.y.]

3 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

Let's be clear.  He was 8 of 19 for 160 yards.  He basicaly was Lamar Jackson minus the turnovers.  I am trying to be positive.  I think he's making positive plays and limiting turnovers but you kool aid drinking yahoo's are a couple bubbles off plumb if you think he's playing like a "franchise" QB.

Great way to watch a game, throw out his stats without the context of video.  When I watched the game I saw a QB whose play doesn't match his stats.  If they credited his passes that were called back he may have satisfied you stat heads better,

 

In all honesty, your post tells me you either didn't watch the game or you don't know s##t about the NFL. 

[Maine-iac]

 

1 minute ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Great way to watch a game, throw out his stats without the context of video.  When I watched the game I saw a QB whose play doesn't match his stats.  If they credited his passes that were called back he may have satisfied you stat heads better,

 

In all honesty, your post tells me you either didn't watch the game or you don't know s##t about the NFL. 

Way to read one post and jump in.  Got any more hot takes?

[njbuff]

Josh Allen seems in control, but yet presses way too much sometimes.

 

If that makes any sense to anyone.

[Steptide]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

There's a few reasons he only had 8 completions today that have nothing to do with his skill as a passer.

 

1) We were committed to the run game. Not a surprise considering we have a rookie QB and were facing a tough defense with a poor offense.

2) Penalties and drops hurt us.

3) He averaged 20 yards per completion and was generally throwing downfield a lot. When you're throwing down the field that often not only are they lower percentage throws, but the completions shorten the drive which in turn leads to less completions. 8 completions for 160 yards vs 16 completions for 160 yards. The result is the same.

4) Allen was running the ball well. I argued this all the time while Tyrod was here, a run for 1st down counts exactly the same as a pass for 1st down. The endzone doesn't care how you get in.

I agree the penaltys hurt. I just hope in the future we see more passing and less running 

[OrediggerPoke]

For those that still haven’t figured it out, stats are for losers! For those that like winners, it’s pretty simple...Allen competes and wins games!

 

 

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I agree the penaltys hurt. I just hope in the future we see more passing and less running 

 

I'm in the minority on this but I don't care if my QB runs a lot as long he is productive doing it. I've always felt a mobile QB is the best possible piece for an offense to have. It's incredibly difficult to defend against someone like Allen who can burn you up the middle on runs, but also chuck the ball way downfield if you try to stack the box. If you leave a LB to spy on him you leave the door open for slants and crossers. Lamar Jackson has led the Ravens to an average of 29 points per game in his 2 starts. He's doing it mostly by running. Maybe that won't be sustainable for long but it is effective.

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

Yeah, he made some good throws and that's encouraging, but you guys are overreacting.  Josh has a long way to go.

 

Both things can be true.  Allen does have a long way to go but IMO we're not overreacting here.  This was a potentially tough comeback game for Allen.  A 6 week hiatus and playing a top 5 defense.  There was plenty of reasons to believe that he would struggle today.  Instead he had command of his game and the offense.  IMO once they add some more weapons on offense you'll see Allen start to put up those gaudy numbers that gets everyone excited.

 

The other thing about this kid is he truly doesn't give a rats fanny about the stats.  He is about one thing and one thing only - winning football games.  He has an infectious attitude that resembles that of Baker Mayfield.  This is part of that mysterious IT factor that we all saw today but doesn't show up in the stats except for wins & losses. 

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm in the minority on this but I don't care if my QB runs a lot as long he is productive doing it. I've always felt a mobile QB is the best possible piece for an offense to have. It's incredibly difficult to defend against someone like Allen who can burn you up the middle on runs, but also chuck the ball way downfield if you try to stack the box. If you leave a LB to spy on him you leave the door open for slants and crossers. Lamar Jackson has led the Ravens to an average of 29 points per game in his 2 starts. He's doing it mostly by running. Maybe that won't be sustainable for long but it is effective.

 

I agree 100%.  IMO Allen's game is beginning to resemble Cam Newton's and that's a good thing.  I would love to see more read option plays with McCoy & Allen.  In the college game these types of high-bred QB's have been taking over the game the last few years.  Allen's physical tools are such that surrounded with the right talent the Bills could go from being a bad offense to a potent one in a single season. 

36 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I don't think anyone's pissed. People just want better than 8 completed passes.

 

But how much of that was the flow of the game?  First you had a couple of quality completions lost by penalty.  Then you had a bad drop on what would have been a 35 yard pass completion.  Add in the fact that the Bills D got run all over in the 2nd quarter limiting offensive possessions and once the Bills got the lead they got very conservative and you only get 8 completions.  Until the offense is upgraded this is how the Bills will be operating. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

41 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Great way to watch a game, throw out his stats without the context of video.  When I watched the game I saw a QB whose play doesn't match his stats.  If they credited his passes that were called back he may have satisfied you stat heads better,

 

In all honesty, your post tells me you either didn't watch the game or you don't know s##t about the NFL. 

it could very well be both, but most likely the second part of the bolded statement

 

[Success]

He did so many good things today. But my favorite was when he went up to every player in offense as the clock ticked down to bang helmets and say good job.

 

He’s just a natural leader.  You can see the rest of the team feed off of his energy.

[Juice_32]

4 hours ago, Skins Malone said:

To that I can only think of the Thompson dropped pass.

 

Which was a beautiful throw. Thompson has to tuck that one away and bring it down. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Steptide said:

I don't think anyone's pissed. People just want better than 8 completed passes.

I gotta disagree with you on that.....there are those that want to see more and those who look to downplay anything they actually see good form Allen because they have been SO VOCAL about him being the wrong pick

 

By the way.....how did Rosen do today?   Because right now Mayfield and Allen look the best to me

[Mat68]

You need to be very nitpicky to want a much better performance vs that defense.  The most athletic defense in the NFL he beat with athleticism.  He made some great plays and willed the offense to victory.  Hopefully, he can build off this next week. 

[VW82]

49 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

I only saw maybe two bad throws.  Other incompletions were not due to his inaccuracy.  

 

Here were his bad throws: behind Zay over the middle on the first series; Ramsey pick that was called back before halftime; one hop throw to Foster mid 3rd q; Thompson over the middle to start 4th on 3rd and 7; quick throw one hop to McKenzie next series; wide way left on the 3rd ad 14 out to Thompson.

 

So 6 of 21 throws (including the completions and INT called back). You can argue the reversed INT because Ramsey clearly pushed Foster but he also had inside position on the throw. It wasn't great. Allen made a ton of winning plays today but he still needs to work on his accuracy.    

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

Here were his bad throws: behind Zay over the middle on the first series; Ramsey pick that was called back before halftime; one hop throw to Foster mid 3rd q; Thompson over the middle to start 4th on 3rd and 7; quick throw one hop to McKenzie next series; wide way left on the 3rd ad 14 out to Thompson.

 

So 6 of 21 throws (including the completions and INT called back). You can argue the reversed INT because Ramsey clearly pushed Foster but he also had inside position on the throw. It wasn't great. Allen made a ton of winning plays today but he still needs to work on his accuracy.    

All QBs make these bad throws over the course of a game even the very good ones......just saying.

 

 

[Norcalbillsfan]

There's a lot of over reacting I'll agree, he's not an mvp yet but I loved what I saw today. He has no top talent weapons other than shady and he looked like a starting caliber QB today. I'm very excited about the future.

[Man with No Name]

COuld have just as easily been around 60%. A couple drops. A couple of HUGE third down completions called back. And a lot of deep throws. I am a big stats guy, but i think anybody not obsessed by it is going to see way more good than bad. 

the debbie downers are definitely the minority today. most people get it. 

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, Steptide said:

I don't think anyone's pissed. People just want better than 8 completed passes.

Fortunately we didn't need to go pass heavy and Allen made great decisions when it came to taking off and running , so it's going to decrease his attempts. Who cares if he completes 5 passes and wins, Better than 25 completions and a loss. 

 

He got us up 14 early,, then put up 10 unanswered in the 4th to ice the game. He had 2 udfa rookies at wr , one of which he never played with (McKenzie). So I'd say Allen had a helluva game, considering that defense and the fact it was his 6th start after missing several weeks. Kids a gamer ..

[VW82]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

All QBs make these bad throws over the course of a game even the very good ones......just saying.

 

 

 

You're right they do. I think Josh still has a much higher rate of bad throws per attempt than other QBs though. The coaches don't seem to trust him yet either. We don't throw in the red zone. But he's still young , and he made a number of brilliant, star-like plays today. This felt a lot like the Vikings game. Hats off to him. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by VW82

[Virgil]

5 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Say whatever you want about the kid, but he's a gamer and you can tell he wants to win, BAD. He brings this amazing energy to the offense as a whole and showed huge improvements in his game today. The stats don't tell the whole story in the pass game, he looked much more poised , aware and accurate against the 4th ranked pass D and ran all over them as well. 

 

The best stat in his young career is he is 3-2 in games he started and finished. All with a below average ol and arguably the worse WR Corp.. He's likely 4-2 imo, if he doesn't get hurt vs Hou. But that injury seems to be a blessing in disguise,as he needed that time to be coached up n work on his difficiencies. 

 

We're going to be legit contenders next year and beyond, love the way this team has been built , they'll have a TON of flexibility to build  around him , and improve the ol in the upcoming off season. The future looks brighter than it has looked in a LONGGGGGG time!!!

 

This is the logic used to defend Tyrod.  People don't want to hear it unless they've already made up their mind

[Man with No Name]

Just now, VW82 said:

 

You're right they do. I think Josh still has a much higher rate of bad throws per attempt than other QBs though. The coaches don't seem to trust him yet either. We don't throw in the red zone. But he's still young , and he made a number of brilliant, star-like plays today. Hats off to him. 

probably true. they definitely don't completely trust him. they go uber conservative every time they get a lead. Run, run. pass on 3rd and long. another completion % killer. 

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

 

This is the logic used to defend Tyrod.  People don't want to hear it unless they've already made up their mind

the difference between tyrod and him is that he can make some huge throws that tyrod doesn't have the ability to. It is so nice to have a qb that can throw to any part of the field now. 

[JerseyBills]

23 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

This is the logic used to defend Tyrod.  People don't want to hear it unless they've already made up their mind

I'm kinda lost with your response. Can u elaborate?!? 

23 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

probably true. they definitely don't completely trust him. they go uber conservative every time they get a lead. Run, run. pass on 3rd and long. another completion % killer. 

the difference between tyrod and him is that he can make some huge throws that tyrod doesn't have the ability to. It is so nice to have a qb that can throw to any part of the field now. 

And WILLING to throw! Tentative Tyrod was scared $#!tless to sling the rock. 

Oh and Allens 6th start he rushed for more yards in a game by 25 yards than Tyrod did in 3 seasons!

[HomeskillitMoorman]

5 hours ago, GoodHands15 said:

I’d like to know what his stats would have been if not for the few drops he had/called back on penalties.

 

He threw a couple off balance darts that were right on the money

 I was cool with how Josh played today.

 

But every QB has drops and plays called back. Everyone’s stats would look better if you factored that in. 

[Roundybout]

5 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

He had a missed screen that he threw into the dirt. That was really it.  

 

Everything else was a miscommunication (you could see him and the WR discussing after the play) or a desperation throw/Hail Mary.  

 

His best throws, aside from the TD, were probably the two conscecutive 3rd down conversions that were called back.  

 

Here's my hot take: if I'm thinking of the pass you are, I think Allen deliberately threw it into the ground. Ramsey was about three feet from the receiver (McKenzie?), who would have gotten pulverized if he caught it. 

[HappyDays]

48 minutes ago, VW82 said:

Here were his bad throws: behind Zay over the middle on the first series

 

That ball was tipped at the line and still hit Zay in the hands. For some reason our receivers cannot ever make a tough catch in tight coverage, the same catches I see other NFL offenses make multiple times a week. Only in Buffalo is a ball that is tipped and hits the receiver in the hands called inaccurate. In other cities it is called a 1st down or just bad luck. We need to draft a tough receiver with good hands next year. Zay might eventually make a decent #2 but all the best offenses in the NFL right now have a true #1.

[Stank_Nasty]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

That ball was tipped at the line and still hit Zay in the hands. For some reason our receivers cannot ever make a tough catch in tight coverage, the same catches I see other NFL offenses make multiple times a week. Only in Buffalo is a ball that is tipped and hits the receiver in the hands called inaccurate. In other cities it is called a 1st down or just bad luck. We need to draft a tough receiver with good hands next year. Zay might eventually make a decent #2 but all the best offenses in the NFL right now have a true #1.

Week in and week out I see big name AND no name wr’s make contested catches for their qb’s. “Area code” catches rewarding their qb for trusting them.  It consistently happens every week all around the nfl..... and then there’s buffalo. 

 

In those other games the qb’s are routinely praised for “trusting” their wr’s and letting them make a play. But in buffalo, when the wr inevitably drops it, it’s just an inaccurate throw and knock against the qb for not hitting every pass in stride.....Very frustrating 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[John from Riverside]

52 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

You're right they do. I think Josh still has a much higher rate of bad throws per attempt than other QBs though. The coaches don't seem to trust him yet either. We don't throw in the red zone. But he's still young , and he made a number of brilliant, star-like plays today. This felt a lot like the Vikings game. Hats off to him. 

I agree with this

 

WHile Deboll get running Allen on designed runs at the goal line in the second half (one of them getting bent over badly and im holding my breath) I kept thinking "just give him max protection and let him sling it for an attempt at the touchdown.....stop RUNNING him......he already had over 100 yards rushing at that point

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Week in and week out I see big name AND no name wr’s make contested catches for their qb’s. “Area code” catches rewarding their qb for trusting them.  It consistently happens every week all around the nfl..... and then there’s buffalo. 

 

Very frustrating 

 

Yeah the classic Randy Moss hug a CB while making the catch has become a regular staple of NFL offenses. It isn't even that big a deal anymore. Robert Foster, amazingly, has had the best catches of the year so far. Everyone else needs the ball to hit them right in the hands with at least a full yard of separation or else there is no chance they'll catch the ball. IMO it's the biggest thing this offense is lacking on a regular basis, even more so than good blocking.

Edited November 26, 2018 by HappyDays

[H2o]

5 hours ago, Jpsredemption said:

He completed 8 passes and his accuracy is awful. 

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Skins Malone said:

What passes showed u his accuracy is awful?  Honest question.  Obviously Allen didnt throw for 300 yards with 4 TDs but I thought he was actually pretty accurate today

 

With good offense's Pats, Saints, Steelers. You need a QB to throw. Don't go after people saying need to play better. Higher goal means that. 

 

But good game today

[Virgil]

36 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I'm kinda lost with your response. Can u elaborate?!? 

 

 

Tyrod got us to the playoffs with crap stats and same offensive support, but was run out of town.  I agree that he needed to move on, but the argument didn't help

[WideNine]

7 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

Hes obviously not but nobody is exactly going out of their way to help him.  

 

Pass Pro is decent - I’ll concede that

 

However:

 

Zero run game.  

Constant penalties negating big throws

WRs not on the same page as Allen

 

Deonte Thompson not hauling in that 30 yard dart pretty much sums up the help he has right now.  

 

When you’re 3 biggest weapons are a rookie UDFA WR, a second year WR and a recently claimed off waivers WR....his supporting cast is basically the complete opposite of Mahomes.  

 

 

 

There is reason to be optimistic -  the team has a good supply of draft picks and money to spend. An upgrade at center and overhaul of the right side of the line - that way the pocket isn't getting pushed into Josh's lap, less outside rush getting around our right tackle, and some real push from RG to open a few run lanes on that side then who knows what a steady run game could open up?

 

A good receiver prospect and another TE if we're shopping, and as much as folks are high on Star, we give up far too many runs up the middle. Kyle has (and still is) a load rushing the QB, but he gets turned outside on runs...we could use another run stuffing DT that can keep our LBs clean when they come up to fill.

 

Perhaps I am a bit hard on our d-line and I would have to watch more of those long runs, but on at least some of them I feel our LB's were slow to recognize run - particularly Edmunds from his Mike position. Milano is also a bit on the small side for LB (closer to having an extra safety at 6.0' 223) so he gets into trouble if he gets locked up with TE's and O-Line who get to the secondary clean (folks kept wondering why Milano was not on the field all the time earlier in the year - it was probably the coaches trying to rotate a bigger body in there on what they thought were going to be runs).

 

I have to remind myself with Edmunds that he is really young and he will only get better, but recognizing runs and coming up to fill is an area of his game he will need to work on. His speed, size, and natural athleticism are already evident in the way he covers shallow routes, TE's, and how quickly he can change direction, recover, and close in and tackle when needed.

Edited November 26, 2018 by WideNine
clarify statement

[transplantbillsfan]

Yeah, this is friggin impressive.

 

We're 1-5 in games he didn't.

 

We would likely be holding a Wildcard spot if McDermott just named him the starter in Training Camp like he should have.

 

I hope Kyle and Lorax come back for one more year to complete the turnaround.

Edited November 26, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[Bangarang]

He’s shown flashes. Still a long way to go.

[Skins Malone]

1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said:

 

 

40 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

With good offense's Pats, Saints, Steelers. You need a QB to throw. Don't go after people saying need to play better. Higher goal means that. 

 

But good game today

No one was going after people.  We were talking about his accuracy.  That's why I said honest question but ok.