How much blame does Daboll deserve?

[RosenNOTchosen1]

In his previous stints as coordinator haven't all his offense's ranked last in the league?

 

This year it's the same story as the Bills rank dead last in offense. 

 

Do you think it could be the case that he's the main problem and that we need a better coordinator?

 

Thoughts?

[GunnerBill]

The main problem is a lack of talent. 

[Victory Formation]

He deserves a lot of blame, expecting an extremely raw QB lead an aerial attack is naive. This offense should be predicated on pounding the football with Allen occasionally airing it out to keep defenses honest. 

 

Shady is also being completely misused, guy should be used much more strategically than what he has. Murphy and Ivory should be in on 1st and 2nd down, not Shady. You put Shady in within the 20 and crucial 3rd down situations where we need to convert. Also, there is no creativity in run designs, it's like we're still in the preseason. Daboll wants to throw all the time when he should be trying to pound the ball.

[The Process]

He's college football level in creativity and innovation. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The main problem is a lack of talent. 

 

This

 

 He was going to be the patriots next  OC when McDaniels was supposed to go to the colts. He certainly didn't suck when he was with Alabama and the Patriots. But somehow he is an idiot when he was/is on no talent teams like the Browns and Bills. We were excited about him when reading about his offense but now hes a bum. 

 

I haven't agreed with all his calls but I believe he will much better when we redo the weapons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

30 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

He deserves a lot of blame, expecting an extremely raw QB lead an aerial attack is naive. This offense should be predicated on pounding the football with Allen occasionally airing it out to keep defenses honest. 

 

Shady is also being completely misused, guy should be used much more strategically than what he has. Murphy and Ivory should be in on 1st and 2nd down, not Shady. You put Shady in within the 20 and crucial 3rd down situations where we need to convert. Also, there is no creativity in run designs, it's like we're still in the preseason. Daboll wants to throw all the time when he should be trying to pound the ball.

 

You mean like the last two weeks??

 

 

[Buddo]

While not wishing to make Daboll blameless, it would be nice to see what he could do with both better talent, and more of his 'own' staff, as opposed to inheriting what was left.

 

In certain respects, he reminds me of Gailey, in that if the game plan is the right one, things look ok, but if it isn't, then plan B doesn't happen in a hurry, and the O looks awful. I would say that on current evidence, Gailey got the gameplan right, at a greater frequency though.

 

I'm also not too sure about what happened with McCarron, to make Beane take a 5th round pick for him. Was Daboll much involved in that decision? Because if he's not, then he's only working with what he's been given, and other than future promise (and Shady), it isn't a lot.

 

 

 

 

[QCity]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

He certainly didn't suck when he was with Alabama and the Patriots.

 

 

Is is even possible to suck as the OC for the Pats or Alabama? He lasted 2 years in Cleveland, 1 year in Miami, 1 year in Kansas City, and 1 year in New England before he was demoted to TE coach. Four teams in five years certainly doesn't sound like success. Talent still may be the biggest issue, but Daboll isn't helping the cause.

[BillsFan692]

Only way i can see him not being fired is if they question the talent...

 

I used to think our future was bright but now im afraid its going to be a while before we realize we been had lol

[Victory Formation]

26 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

You mean like the last two weeks??

 

 

Ok. I say we need to run more often and more effectively. What do you disagree with exactly?

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Ok. I say we need to run more often and more effectively. What do you disagree with exactly?

 

It has been difficult for Daboll to stick with the run in games where we have been down early. On Sunday he did a nice job of it even when we were in a 10 point hole. However, as for running effectively.... I don't put that on Daboll in a playcalling sense. It's on execution. The execution has been awful. Our average per rush must be one of the worst in the league. It's at least 75% talent. Scheme plays a relatively small part comparatively. 

 

And I think your post above suggests more Marcus Murphy and less LeSean McCoy.  The only think that is an answer to is "how can we become even more hopeless?"

[Food_Pyramid_Wrong]

When your offensive line stinks, screen passes and quick hitters need to be the staple of your offense. I don't see much of that.

[dpberr]

I don't think he and his unit coaches are on the same page tactically or strategically.  You have a junior OC and veteran unit coaches and I can see communication problems there.  You can have all the blue chip talent in the world but if you have a coach who is having a difficult time teaching the vision and design of the offense to your line, you'll have trouble on Sundays no matter who the personnel is on the field.  

 

Regardless of the outcome of the season, I expect the OC to remain and he will get to pick new OL and WR coaches for 2019.  

[Buddy Hix]

It's McD's fault...

 

Why bring in a guy who runs the EP system, which is tougher to grasp than most others, when you are intent on taking a kid who struggles with reading presnap coverage?

[Kirby Jackson]

Daboll isn’t blameless in this scenario but his hands are tied more than any coach that I can remember. They handed him an expired can of spam, brussell sprouts, a match and asked him to go win a James Beard award. While others may make a better spam and sprouts dinner it’s still going to suck. 

[Billsfan1972]

5 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

He deserves a lot of blame, expecting an extremely raw QB lead an aerial attack is naive. This offense should be predicated on pounding the football with Allen occasionally airing it out to keep defenses honest. 

 

Shady is also being completely misused, guy should be used much more strategically than what he has. Murphy and Ivory should be in on 1st and 2nd down, not Shady. You put Shady in within the 20 and crucial 3rd down situations where we need to convert. Also, there is no creativity in run designs, it's like we're still in the preseason. Daboll wants to throw all the time when he should be trying to pound the ball.

What aerial attack????  Everything they do is so vanilla and lacking creativity he deserves a whole lot.  

 

However it is more so on the Coach & HO that refused to  help the offense in any way and continues to think this is the 80's and that D and field position is all that matters.  

[MAJBobby]

5 hours ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

In his previous stints as coordinator haven't all his offense's ranked last in the league?

 

This year it's the same story as the Bills rank dead last in offense. 

 

Do you think it could be the case that he's the main problem and that we need a better coordinator?

 

Thoughts?

 

Daboll deserves blame, Beane deserves blame, McDermott deserves blame for what is going on with the Offense 

4 hours ago, QCity said:

 

Is is even possible to suck as the OC for the Pats or Alabama? He lasted 2 years in Cleveland, 1 year in Miami, 1 year in Kansas City, and 1 year in New England before he was demoted to TE coach. Four teams in five years certainly doesn't sound like success. Talent still may be the biggest issue, but Daboll isn't helping the cause.

 

And one that when he left Bama went from a 190 AVG passing team to over 340 avg passing team with an explosive passing offense 

[bigK14094]

With the erratic QB's that Bean is providing on the roster, I think Daboll has done fine.  I mean....3 QB's in camp...trade one at last minute, leaving two rookies essentially.  then in Oct adding a vet.  Vet should have been added in camp.  We would be better off with McCarron to play this sunday.  and D- for Bean.....a B for Daboll.

[ricojes]

Must be a complicated system.  For an offense that only produces about 10 points per game, there sure is a lot of confusion on where to line up. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by ricojes

[oldmanfan]

He calls the plays, so of course he has the responsibility for what's going on.

[DCBongo]

I'd give Daboll the same 2 years I am willing to give Allen.  It takes time to develop an offense just as it takes time for a QB to develop.  In 2019 with more talent on the team I feel we will get a more definitive answer on "do they suck". 

[Soda Popinski]

when can we draft Tua Taguvaloa?

[Like A Mofo]

San Francisco loses their starting QB and their backup hangs 30 on the Packers last night, what is our excuse? San Francisco is on a 3rd string RB at this point?

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

DaBoll is one of the main culprits IMO. His offense is so bad that players can't even get into position on time. The scheme doesn't take advantage of our strengths and the QB's look lost. How do you ever call the out pattern for Peterman in a tie game with 2 minutes left on your own 25?  That sh!t is criminal.

[MAJBobby]

46 minutes ago, DCBongo said:

I'd give Daboll the same 2 years I am willing to give Allen.  It takes time to develop an offense just as it takes time for a QB to develop.  In 2019 with more talent on the team I feel we will get a more definitive answer on "do they suck". 

 

He will get two years because HC McD should NOT get another Crack at a OC. 

[keepthefaith]

I blame the coaches for not relying more on the running game.

[Big Gun]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The main problem is a lack of talent. 

This is the main issue

[blacklabel]

47.3 gallons of blame sauce.

[vorpma]

6 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

This

 

 He was going to be the patriots next  OC when McDaniels was supposed to go to the colts. He certainly didn't suck when he was with Alabama and the Patriots. But somehow he is an idiot when he was/is on no talent teams like the Browns and Bills. We were excited about him when reading about his offense but now hes a bum. 

 

I haven't agreed with all his calls but I believe he will much better when we redo the weapons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You mean like the last two weeks??

 

 

Remember, when the Bills lose its "fire everybody now!"

[Jobot]

The game plan vs Houston is an EASY win with any NFL caliber backup at the helm.

 

The Bills game plan is pretty clear... Strong defense + conservative offense.  But I guess it is his fault for not having Peterman just take a knee for the final few series of the game.

[Chicken Boo]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The main problem is a lack of talent. 

 

I don't buy that.  Proper scheming can mask talent deficiencies.  

 

Daboll doesn't even try.

[colin]

the talent on o is garbage, but the coaching isn't great either (it's actually terrible).

 

i can dig that some of his schemes and play calls sometimes work, and could work, but pre snap penalties, not being lined up right, holding removing big plays, all of that is on coaches.  we really should be 3-3, and given our putrid start that's woulda been pretty good, so we shouldn't can anyone yet, but we need to show some improvement.

 

i think indy stinks, and we should have a shot at winning that, but w our qbs i really don't know if we can pull it off.  i hope the monday nighter vs the pats gets cancelled, but somehow i think it has to happen.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I don't buy that.  Proper scheming can mask talent deficiencies.  

 

Daboll doesn't even try.

 

Proper scheming can maximise the talent. I think Daboll might be maximising this talent (or at least close to it). The talent sucks. He has an offensive line of cast offs, a wide receiver group of 1 has been and a load of never will bes and a rag bag of tight ends beyond Charles Clay and his one good knee. Sean McVay wouldn't be able to make a productive offense out of this lot. They are hopeless.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, ricojes said:

Must be a complicated system.  For an offense that only produces about 10 points per game, there sure is a lot of confusion on where to line up. 

 

...remember when Al Saunders was OC for KC?.......Deadskins hired him and he showed up with a 700 PAGE playbook......then on to the Raiders.......with his 700 PAGES........now there's some real value in complexity.............

 

Al Saunders Is New Raiders OC: Will His 700-Page Playbook Help or Hurt Oakland?

Keff Ciardello-2/04/2011

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, colin said:

the talent on o is garbage, but the coaching isn't great either (it's actually terrible).

 

i can dig that some of his schemes and play calls sometimes work, and could work, but pre snap penalties, not being lined up right, holding removing big plays, all of that is on coaches.  we really should be 3-3, and given our putrid start that's woulda been pretty good, so we shouldn't can anyone yet, but we need to show some improvement.

 

 

I agree with that Colin - we should be careful to distinguish "scheme" from "coaching." The coaching particularly at wide receiver and offensive line needs to improve but the players are so below par that even great coaches aren't going to make stars out of them.

[BmarvB]

I'll be fair to him. He has nothing to work with, and many of his position coaches are either out of position, or never played the game at the NFL level. On the other hand, a better OC would get the most out of what little he has to work with.

Edited October 16, 2018 by BmarvB

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

15 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I don't buy that.  Proper scheming can mask talent deficiencies.  

 

Daboll doesn't even try.

 

...and adjusting your vaunted scheme to fit the "personnel you have to work with" is what GOOD coaches do......incoming Schwartz adjusted HIS scheme to fit the personnel he "had to work with" and I don't think the results were too bad (COUGH)........circa Top 5 defense................

[Chicken Boo]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Proper scheming can maximise the talent. I think Daboll might be maximising this talent (or at least close to it). The talent sucks. He has an offensive line of cast offs, a wide receiver group of 1 has been and a load of never will bes and a rag bag of tight ends beyond Charles Clay and his one good knee. Sean McVay wouldn't be able to make a productive offense out of this lot. They are hopeless.

 

The reason I don't believe this is because it's Brian Daboll.  He isn't Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan.  Add him to the list of mediocre Bills offensive coordinators.

 

His usage, or lack thereof, of Shady all but confirms my suspicions.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

In his previous stints as coordinator haven't all his offense's ranked last in the league?

This year it's the same story as the Bills rank dead last in offense. 

Do you think it could be the case that he's the main problem and that we need a better coordinator?

Thoughts?

 

It's really hard for me to tell.

 

Yes, Daboll in his previous stints as an NFL OC was NOT impressive.  But people do grow and learn.

 

I see good things and bad things. 

-He doesn't have much talent to work with

-Others have done more with the same or less - see Gailey, Chan for example

-He has more often been successful at getting his 'meh' WR corps open than people who aren't watching film film film realize because they are missed by the QB(s)

-Other OCs have done a much better job at using a rookie QB as a "game manager" and having them pass selectively and strategically, not expecting them to do too much

-He doesn't seem to be getting good coaching from his assistants (on other teams, the WR would be scared to come back to the sidelines after some of those routes)

-Some of his run blocking schemes have shown good creativity - Cover1 had a good article about what worked and why vs. Tenn

-That said, he has been slow to move away from blocking schemes, pass and run, that were failing time after time through the first 4 games

-He may be overly influenced by what QBs 'show and tell' in the QB room and offensive film sessions, which is night-and-day different from what they can execute on field (unless things are sicker and more dysfunctional than we thought in B'lo, he must have bought off on the notion of trading AJM and starting Peterman)

 

I give him a grade of "incomplete" at this point.

 

 

 

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

I am not sure its fair to put this on him, the QB's have not executed at all no matter what the call is.  I do blame the coaches for concluding Peterman was the starter and McCarron was expendable.  And Allen was ready when he was not.

 

However one area where the Bills are close to the bottom in the league is holding, illegal formation and false starts.  I think this is coaching, especially illegal formation.  They need to get that crap cleaned up ASAP.

Edited October 16, 2018 by mattynh

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Proper scheming can maximise the talent. I think Daboll might be maximising this talent (or at least close to it). The talent sucks. He has an offensive line of cast offs, a wide receiver group of 1 has been and a load of never will bes and a rag bag of tight ends beyond Charles Clay and his one good knee. Sean McVay wouldn't be able to make a productive offense out of this lot. They are hopeless.

 

We'll have to disagree here.   They aren't good, but from what I've seen he's been very slow to figure out what they can do well and utilize them to best advantage.