How much blame does Daboll deserve?

[Victory Formation]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Look I am not saying Daboll is great or even good. There is nothing in his history to suggest he is a great OC. I am saying you bring a guy in to run his offense and give him players who can't execute. They did it with Rick Dennison last year and they have done it with Daboll this year. The biggest problem last year was not Dennison. The biggest problem this year is not Daboll. 

 

The talent sucks folks. Not just a bit. A lot. LeSean McCoy apart this might be one of the least talented offenses that has ever taken an NFL field.

Ok, once again, if we gut our entire offense, all of our players, gone. Would you GunnerBill be shocked if some of our guys went to NE, KC and LA and started for them? I wouldn't be, not one bit.

Edited October 16, 2018 by NewDayBills

[LABILLBACKER]

13 hours ago, The Process said:

He's college football level in creativity and innovation. 

How much? 40%.....this team still has embarrassing  weapons offensively.  DaBoll isn't the Belichick disciple we had hoped.  McB are both to blame for not preparing a better veteran replacement for Peterman. On the bright side all this dysfunction will probably translate to a top 3 pick. This is a 4-12 team with a very good top 10 defense. And finally on JA, I've seen more flaws than positives. He should've sat this whole season if McCarron and Peterman didn't crap the bed. I'd consider drafting another qb this April. 

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

The whole 'talent' argument. First off, I'm not so sure about that. Shady has had a HOF career and he has really struggled this year, once again, it's like no thought was put into our run blocking designs, none. Ivory and Murphy should also be way more productive, I miss the complexity of Greg Roman's run designs, I think Allen could really benefit from being on a power run team. This offense Daboll is running is for more polished and seasoned QBs, not someone that should have been sat down a year.

 

Bottom line, this offense is meant to create mismatches in the passing game, which in theory sounds great if you have a QB that is developed, which we do not. So far Daboll's offense has been a complete disaster in terms of running the football. How much of this is talent? Let me ask you guys this, if we gutted our entire offense, all of the players, gone. Would you be surprised if some of our guys ended up with New England, LA and KC?

 

So let me start with Greg Roman. Who I an a massive fan of. He is the best run game coordinator in the National Football League. He isn't great at building a passing game off of it but if you want a "hide the QB" offense that is productive and can put up points go and hire Greg Roman. Want proof look at Baltimore's run game the year before he arrived and then the two years since he arrived. He is a run game genius. 

 

Then let me address your question at the end. If we leave Allen to the side for a moment (because any rational person knows it is way too early to judge) and then released every other offensive player on the roster at the end of this season I submit that only TWO (Shady and Dawkins) would be starters on an NFL team next season. Clay, Mills, Miller and Ivory would probably get backup jobs somewhere and Kelvin Benjamin would get signed to a squad... but would be far from a lock to make it out of camp and if he did it would not be as a starting receiver. The talent sucks. 

[Victory Formation]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So let me start with Greg Roman. Who I an a massive fan of. He is the best run game coordinator in the National Football League. He isn't great at building a passing game off of it but if you want a "hide the QB" offense that is productive and can put up points go and hire Greg Roman. Want proof look at Baltimore's run game the year before he arrived and then the two years since he arrived. He is a run game genius. 

 

Then let me address your question at the end. If we leave Allen to the side for a moment (because any rational person knows it is way too early to judge) and then released every other offensive player on the roster at the end of this season I submit that only TWO (Shady and Dawkins) would be starters on an NFL team next season. Clay, Mills, Miller and Ivory would probably get backup jobs somewhere and Kelvin Benjamin would get signed to a squad... but would be far from a lock to make it out of camp and if he did it would not be as a starting receiver. The talent sucks. 

We said the same thing about Hogan and Woods, not good enough for us but good enough to be cornerstones for franchises contending for Super Bowl titles every year. If we did gut our offense completely, the vultures would come circling and they would pick our corpse dry to the bone, it's happened enough times over the years that I'm seeing a pattern here.

Edited October 16, 2018 by NewDayBills

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Ok, once again, if we gut our entire offense, all of our players, gone. Would you GunnerBill be shocked if some of our guys went to NE, KC and LA and started for them? I wouldn't be, not one bit.

 

Unless we are talking about Shady (and he definitely wouldn't start in LA) then yes. Dawkins is the only other one I imagine starting anywhere in the NFL let alone on teams with good offenses.

 

The offensive talent level on this roster was bad last year and totally sucks this year. 

4 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

We said the same thing about Hogan and Woods, not good enough for us but good enough to be cornerstones for franchises contending for Super Bowl titles every year. If we did gut our offense completely, the vultures would come circling and they would pick our corpse dry to the bone, it's happened enough times over the years that I'm seeing a pattern here.

 

Nope. I was about the biggest Hogan guy on this board and always thought Woods was a steady #2. Those guys can play. 

 

EDIT: and I also said before that season that the 2015 roster (the one with Woods and Hogan and Goodwin and Watkins and Harvin and Karlos and Shady and Gillislee and the key pieces of the #4 defense in the league a year before) was - leaving QB aside because Tyrod was a total unknown at the time - a top 6 roster in the NFL. If the Head Coach hadn't wrecked the defense that team could have won 11 or 12 games and made noise in the post-season. 

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by GunnerBill

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Unless we are talking about Shady (and he definitely wouldn't start in LA) then yes. Dawkins is the only other one I imagine starting anywhere in the NFL let alone on teams with good offenses.

 

The offensive talent level on this roster was bad last year and totally sucks this year. 

I bet you some other NFL franchise could squeeze another 1,000 yard season or two out of Shady. Also wouldn't be surprised if Zay Jones became a productive starter somewhere else, same for Kelvin Benjamin and Charles Clay. We always blame talent, until our guys go somewhere else and blossom and we're left with nothing to show for. Watch the NFL teams circle us like a pack of hyenas when we gut our offense, watch.

[GunnerBill]

43 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

I bet you some other NFL franchise could squeeze another 1,000 yard season or two out of Shady. Also wouldn't be surprised if Zay Jones became a productive starter somewhere else, same for Kelvin Benjamin and Charles Clay. We always blame talent, until our guys go somewhere else and blossom and we're left with nothing to show for. Watch the NFL teams circle us like a pack of hyenas when we gut our offense, watch.

 

Shady could get 1,000 yards somewhere. I agree. There is almost no way the other three are gonna go and be successful starters elsewhere. Were David Nelson and Donald Jones successful elsewhere? How about CJ Spiller? No. In fact they were more productive here than anywhere. 

 

The reason Hogan and Goodwin and Woods have succeeded is because they are good. Teams take good players. They don't take sucky players. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by GunnerBill

[Victory Formation]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Shady could get 1,000 yards somewhere. I agree. There is no way the other three are gonna go and be successful starters elsewhere. Were David Nelson and Donald Jones successful elsewhere? How about CJ Spiller? No. In fact they were more productive here than anywhere. 

 

The reason Hogan and Goodwin and Woods have succeeded is because they are good. Teams take good players. They don't take sucky players. 

But Hogan and Woods weren't good according to fans and management. I'm not saying every player is good, I'm saying that we have a tendency of throwing out entire ribeye steaks instead of simply trimming the fat. Meanwhile all 31 NFL teams grab their lunch trays and line up for an all you can eat buffet at our expense. We draft good players extremely high and in 4 years they're out the door. Identifying which players we should keep has been a problem historically speaking for Buffalo. We have a history of straight cutting underperforming starters instead of drafting or signing competition which would improve the quality of the starting unit and the depth behind them. To me it's like a snake eating it's own tail.

Edited October 16, 2018 by NewDayBills

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Overall talent on those teams were also not great; GMs/HCs left a lot to be desired as well

 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Look I am not saying Daboll is great or even good. There is nothing in his history to suggest he is a great OC. I am saying you bring a guy in to run his offense and give him players who can't execute. They did it with Rick Dennison last year and they have done it with Daboll this year. The biggest problem last year was not Dennison. The biggest problem this year is not Daboll. 

 

The talent sucks folks. Not just a bit. A lot. LeSean McCoy apart this might be one of the least talented offenses that has ever taken an NFL field.

 

Like anything in life people have opinions.  We believe the talent is sub par.  I personally believe it is even worse than that.

I can rationalize posters opinions like NewDayBills and understand what he is saying.

 

But just as one side believes an extremely good OC can make a less talented team better so it goes the other way.

Having an elite QB with talented WRs and a serviceable OL can make an OC look like a genius.

 

I too cannot say that Daboll will be a great OC but an off tackle running play is an off tackle running play.

The OL and RB have to beat the DL and LB's. 

Any decent DC can scheme to beat this group on most downs no matter what the play call is.

 

I only hope Beane and McDermott and Daboll (or his replacement) can identify and aquire the players during the offseason close to what they do on defense.

[GunnerBill]

25 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

But Hogan and Woods weren't good according to fans and management. I'm not saying every player is good, I'm saying that we have a tendency of throwing out entire ribeye steaks instead of simply trimming the fat. Meanwhile all 31 NFL teams grab their lunch trays and line up for an all you can eat buffet at our expense. We draft good players extremely high and in 4 years they're out the door. Identifying which players we should keep has been a problem historically speaking for Buffalo. We have a history of straight cutting underperforming starters instead of drafting or signing competition which would improve the quality of the starting unit and the depth behind them. To me it's like a snake eating it's own tail.

 

Management were wrong to let Hogan walk. I think letting Woods walk was understandable - he wasn't allowed to go because he wasn't good enough.

 

And I don't care what the faceless blob of "the fans" thought. I am defending my judgment - I never thought Hogan or Woods sucked they were obviously to the naked eye legitimate NFL players. To even consider the artist formerly known as Kelvin Benjamin's career (he is more akin to a washed up Harvin coming here which I correctly predicted would fail) or the complete non event that is Zay Jones (who I liked in the draft by the way) in the same bracket is to ignore the evidence infront of your face. 

 

And we will soon see.... because a lot of these offensive players will not be here next year. And the vast majority of them will not be starting in the NFL. I'd be shocked if more than half a dozen or so of our offensive guys are even on NFL rosters come opening day 2019. 

[MAJBobby]

Well he does have an AVG passing offense. Granted it would he AVG in 1941. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by MAJBobby

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Management were wrong to let Hogan walk. I think letting Woods walk was understandable - he wasn't allowed to go because he wasn't good enough.

 

And I don't care what the faceless blob of "the fans" thought. I am defending my judgment - I never thought Hogan or Woods sucked they were obviously to the naked eye legitimate NFL players. To even consider the artist formerly known as Kelvin Benjamin's career (he is more akin to a washed up Harvin coming here which I correctly predicted would fail) or the complete non event that is Zay Jones (who I liked in the draft by the way) in the same bracket is to ignore the evidence infront of your face. 

 

And we will soon see.... because a lot of these offensive players will not be here next year. And the vast majority of them will not be starting in the NFL. I'd be shocked if more than half a dozen or so of our offensive guys are even on NFL rosters come opening day 2019. 

Indeed, we shall see. And I hope you are correct, I'd love to be wrong, I just don't see it. We will gut the offense, many of these players will start somewhere else and do fairly well. McDermott will get his guys on offense and if he fails? He will get fired, some new coach will come in and gut the entire roster again. Alas, we will have come full circle in the cycle of self cannibalization that is which the Buffalo Bills.

[BringBackOrton]

15 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

He deserves a lot of blame, expecting an extremely raw QB lead an aerial attack is naive. This offense should be predicated on pounding the football with Allen occasionally airing it out to keep defenses honest. 

 

Shady is also being completely misused, guy should be used much more strategically than what he has. Murphy and Ivory should be in on 1st and 2nd down, not Shady. You put Shady in within the 20 and crucial 3rd down situations where we need to convert. Also, there is no creativity in run designs, it's like we're still in the preseason. Daboll wants to throw all the time when he should be trying to pound the ball.

An aerial attack?  Allen has throw like 40 times over two games.

[Victory Formation]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

An aerial attack?  Allen has throw like 40 times over two games.

Which could be perpetuated by penalties, no running game and 3rd & 20 situations they seem to have a penchant for putting Allen in.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, NewDayBills said:

Which could be perpetuated by penalties, no running game and 3rd & 20 situations they seem to have a penchant for putting Allen in.

No dude. 40 attempts total. That's the OPPOSITE of an aerial attack.  Do ya'll watch the games?

[Victory Formation]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

No dude. 40 attempts total. That's the OPPOSITE of an aerial attack.  Do ya'll watch the games?

I do. And dude, did you read my reply to you? How many 3rd & 20 situations have we put Allen in?

 

Which may be why my perception is such, they never put Allen in any easy passing situations, he's always expected to do something heroic. 

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, NewDayBills said:

I do. And dude, did you read my reply to you? How many 3rd & 20 situations have we put Allen in?

 

Which may be why my perception is such, they never put Allen in any easy passing situations, he's always expected to do something heroic. 

And even if we put Allen in so many passing downs, we're still 29th in total passing attempts on the year.  AKA, we're trying to run.

[Victory Formation]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

And even if we put Allen in so many passing downs, we're still 29th in total passing attempts on the year.  AKA, we're trying to run.

In the end, we are trying to run, but we haven't been to successful at it, have we? Did you read my entire post through? You know, the post you quoted me on? Ivory is averaging what? 2.5ypc? Murphy probably doesn't even have 20 attempts on the year. What does this lack of a running attack mean for Allen? Or all the penalties? Yep, it means 3rd and long, he's expected to convert ridiculous odds, most of the time even a top 5 QB would struggle with. My perception is not as absurd as you make it seem.

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

In the end, we are trying to run, but we haven't been to successful at it, have we? Did you read my entire post through? You know, the post you quoted me on? Ivory is averaging what? 2.5ypc? Murphy probably doesn't even have 20 attempts on the year. What does this lack of a running attack mean for Allen? Or all the penalties? Yep, it means 3rd and long, he's expected to convert ridiculous odds, most of the time even a top 5 QB would struggle with. My perception is not as absurd as you make it seem.

I did.  I especially thought the bolded parts were completely wrong. 

15 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

He deserves a lot of blame, expecting an extremely raw QB lead an aerial attack is naive. This offense should be predicated on pounding the football with Allen occasionally airing it out to keep defenses honest. 

 

Shady is also being completely misused, guy should be used much more strategically than what he has. Murphy and Ivory should be in on 1st and 2nd down, not Shady. You put Shady in within the 20 and crucial 3rd down situations where we need to convert. Also, there is no creativity in run designs, it's like we're still in the preseason. Daboll wants to throw all the time when he should be trying to pound the ball.

 

[Victory Formation]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

I did.  I especially thought the bolded parts were completely wrong. 

 

I explained my views on Allen, they expect him to play hero ball which is why his numbers are so bad. If Daboll wants to pound the ball or if he is trying to is the wrong question, the question is, has he been successful at it? If you agree that Daboll has been putrid at running the football #1 - Who picks up the slack? #2- Why exactly are you disagreeing with me?

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, NewDayBills said:

I explained my views on Allen, they expect him to play hero ball which is why his numbers are so bad. If Daboll wants to pound the ball or if he is trying to is the wrong question, the question is, has he been successful at it? If you agree that Daboll has been putrid at running the football #1 - Who picks up the slack? #2- Why exactly are you disagreeing with me?

Because you simply cannot be watching the same offense I am every Sunday if you think " Daboll wants to throw all the time when he should be trying to pound the ball."

[Victory Formation]

7 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Because you simply cannot be watching the same offense I am every Sunday if you think " Daboll wants to throw all the time when he should be trying to pound the ball."

Well, if he wants to run, he is a complete failure at it honestly. The reason why I feel we are passing too much is more of a reflection on the dubious passing situations they are putting Allen in. Expecting him to convert 3rd and 16 or 3rd and 20 is way too much for a top 5 QB let alone an extremely raw project. 

 

Numbers and attempts only tell you so much. I'd be okay with passing more if they were 1 yard screens, but 20 attempts or not Allen was put in some dubious situations where he needed to complete 20 yard strikes.

 

Do you understand?

Edited October 16, 2018 by NewDayBills

[brianthomas]

 what youre also seeing is what i call the Tyrod effect. Where defenses arent scared of your passing attack so they sell out more on the run. Thats why imo our running totals havent been good. (Also due to the offensive linemen who #1 some shouldnt be starting on any NFL team & #2 our run blocking scheme & some guys inability to execute such schemes). Its also why some of Allens best throws have come on play action. Defenses probably bite just that little bit more vs us. I mean why not? Its not like we can consistently punish them for it. But i digress.

 

I'm not in the sky is falling crowd. I didn't expect Allen to start this year & didn't want him to. Maybe the kid in me wanted to see him, just like a kid wanting to see his new toys for Christmas. I am glad however that Allen won't be starting the next few games. Dude can heal up & get back at it in the 2nd half of the season to pick up some more reps.

By the end of the year we'll have a better idea of where we stand & can make the moves to set Josh Allen & this team up for success. I know we're sick of waiting but all good things yanno haha

 

GO BILLS?

[GunnerBill]

44 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

In the end, we are trying to run, but we haven't been to successful at it, have we? Did you read my entire post through? You know, the post you quoted me on? Ivory is averaging what? 2.5ypc? Murphy probably doesn't even have 20 attempts on the year. What does this lack of a running attack mean for Allen? Or all the penalties? Yep, it means 3rd and long, he's expected to convert ridiculous odds, most of the time even a top 5 QB would struggle with. My perception is not as absurd as you make it seem.

 

Yep. Because the offensive players are incapable of executing properly. The offensive execution was bad in 2017, it is even worse in 2018. At the end of the day there are not many schemes that have plays in the playbook that don't involve guys having to block, run routes or catch. 

 

Sean McVay would struggle to make this offense good, because it is an offense made up of mainly bad football players.

[Victory Formation]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. Because the offensive players are incapable of executing properly. The offensive execution was bad in 2017, it is even worse in 2018. At the end of the day there are not many schemes that have plays in the playbook that don't involve guys having to block, run routes or catch. 

 

Sean McVay would struggle to make this offense good, because it is an offense made up of mainly bad football players.

I think McDermott doesn't know offense, first he hired Dennison and now Daboll. You say it's talent, I say it's coaching. What I think will happen is we'll bring in a bunch of fresh bodies and nothing will change. Same old Bills.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

But Hogan and Woods weren't good according to fans and management. I'm not saying every player is good, I'm saying that we have a tendency of throwing out entire ribeye steaks instead of simply trimming the fat. Meanwhile all 31 NFL teams grab their lunch trays and line up for an all you can eat buffet at our expense. We draft good players extremely high and in 4 years they're out the door. Identifying which players we should keep has been a problem historically speaking for Buffalo. We have a history of straight cutting underperforming starters instead of drafting or signing competition which would improve the quality of the starting unit and the depth behind them. To me it's like a snake eating it's own tail.

 

I agree with your premise - historically, ID'ing players to keep has been a major issue here.  It's not so much cutting, however, as how we price them in FA.   It wasn't that management thought Hogan and Woods weren't good; they recognized they were legit NFL players.  It's that they undervalued them - perceived them as JAG, Woods = Jordan Matthews. 

 

Um, no.  Not even if "too much doing" was his problem.

 

Partly it's how they've been used and what they've produced while here.

 

 

[BillsFanCRNA]

17 hours ago, The Process said:

He's college football level in creativity and innovation. 

Coming in after Kiffin, I didn't find him all that creative or innovative at Bama to be honest...

12 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

when can we draft Tua Taguvaloa?

Not soon enough!

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I agree with your premise - historically, ID'ing players to keep has been a major issue here.  It's not so much cutting, however, as how we price them in FA.   It wasn't that management thought Hogan and Woods weren't good; they recognized they were legit NFL players.  It's that they undervalued them - perceived them as JAG, Woods = Jordan Matthews. 

 

Um, no.  Not even if "too much doing" was his problem.

 

Partly it's how they've been used and what they've produced while here.

 

 

And the truth is and to me it's a very disturbing truth but in my mind, the truth nonetheless, but nobody is beating the Buffalo Bills but the Buffalo Bills and I think that's sad. We've actually had a few really solid players in the draft I thought, guys that we could build something with, but nope, gone like the wind. None of these players were perfect people but so what, nobody is, they're still our guys and we handpicked them.

[Nihilarian]

While I agree that talent is lacking on the offense in the players. I also believe the talent is lacking in the coaches. I mean c'mon now 12 penalties for 104 yards and players not lined up where they are supposed to be lined up among other screwups. These men are professional players, so how do they not know how to do their jobs? One word! COACHING! 

 

Most Bills fans wouldn't put Nathan Peterman in a game so why do the coaches do it? They do it because the kid is inexperienced and needs to play to develop. He is a very hard worker and does all the right things in practice, works hard, studies hard, tries hard and yet screws up in games because he doesn't know the limitations of his own arm. THIS IS ALSO COACHING! The coaches should be able to recognize a players ability to get it done in a game by watching him in practice. That is "IF" they know what they are doing!

 

If you look at this years offense you see that there is no elite talent on the offensive line and really only one good player in LT Dion Dawkins. DT Kyle Williams will tell you all day that good players on the D line make other players better at doing their jobs. The better a player is the better he helps make the players around him better. When you have a line full of scrubs it doesn't do much for anyone. While Incognito, Woods might not have been elite players. They were both really good players who helped make the players around them look better. 

 

That said the same goes for the WR corps as the Bills have no elite players at WR and perhaps one good player who is being utilized all wrong as he doesn't have break away speed or the ability to get great separation. What he does have is amazing size in being 6'5'' 245 LBs with is a clear mismatch against smaller DB's.  So. It's up to the coaching staff to find ways to get him the ball over the top. Anyone else recall how Bill Walsh always had Jerry Rice receiving the ball with his body between the defender and the ball so the defender could not make a play on it. Yea, kinda like that!

 

The Buffalo Bills do have one elite player on offense in LeSean McCoy and against the Texans he was averaging 4.6 yards per carry. So why only 16 carries for 73 yards?  By the same token Chris Ivory averaged 0.8 YPC on 6 carries for 5 yards. This tells me when Ivory comes in the game the defense damn well knows who is getting the ball and they stop him. ALL THIS IS ON COACHING! 

 

McCoy being underutilized. Ivory put in bad situations. KB put in bad situations. Not running the ball enough. Not enough innovation, not enough screens, not enough roll outs, not enough misdirection plays. The toughest thing a defense can face is to start moving one way and then change direction and start running the other way. It literally wears a defense out. 

 

It's too bad that McD knows very little on how to run an offense or he could take it over and redirect things like other offensive minded coaches have done. Coaches like Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, Doug Pederson, Andy Reid and even Chan Gailey could get so much more out of the limited players on this roster. IMHO

[Victory Formation]

3 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

While I agree that talent is lacking on the offense in the players. I also believe the talent is lacking in the coaches. I mean c'mon now 12 penalties for 104 yards and players not lined up where they are supposed to be lined up among other screwups. These men are professional players, so how do they not know how to do their jobs? One word! COACHING! 

 

Most Bills fans wouldn't put Nathan Peterman in a game so why do the coaches do it? They do it because the kid is inexperienced and needs to play to develop. He is a very hard worker and does all the right things in practice, works hard, studies hard, tries hard and yet screws up in games because he doesn't know the limitations of his own arm. THIS IS ALSO COACHING! The coaches should be able to recognize a players ability to get it done in a game by watching him in practice. That is "IF" they know what they are doing!

 

If you look at this years offense you see that there is no elite talent on the offensive line and really only one good player in LT Dion Dawkins. DT Kyle Williams will tell you all day that good players on the D line make other players better at doing their jobs. The better a player is the better he helps make the players around him better. When you have a line full of scrubs it doesn't do much for anyone. While Incognito, Woods might not have been elite players. They were both really good players who helped make the players around them look better. 

 

That said the same goes for the WR corps as the Bills have no elite players at WR and perhaps one good player who is being utilized all wrong as he doesn't have break away speed or the ability to get great separation. What he does have is amazing size in being 6'5'' 245 LBs with is a clear mismatch against smaller DB's.  So. It's up to the coaching staff to find ways to get him the ball over the top. Anyone else recall how Bill Walsh always had Jerry Rice receiving the ball with his body between the defender and the ball so the defender could not make a play on it. Yea, kinda like that!

 

The Buffalo Bills do have one elite player on offense in LeSean McCoy and against the Texans he was averaging 4.6 yards per carry. So why only 16 carries for 73 yards?  By the same token Chris Ivory averaged 0.8 YPC on 6 carries for 5 yards. This tells me when Ivory comes in the game the defense damn well knows who is getting the ball and they stop him. ALL THIS IS ON COACHING! 

 

McCoy being underutilized. Ivory put in bad situations. KB put in bad situations. Not running the ball enough. Not enough innovation, not enough screens, not enough roll outs, not enough misdirection plays. The toughest thing a defense can face is to start moving one way and then change direction and start running the other way. It literally wears a defense out. 

 

It's too bad that McD knows very little on how to run an offense or he could take it over and redirect things like other offensive minded coaches have done. Coaches like Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, Doug Pederson, Andy Reid and even Chan Gailey could get so much more out of the limited players on this roster. IMHO

Thank God, someone else sees it too. Good post brother, good post.

[gobills1212]

Blame who for what now?

Why bother when you can just fire em all?!?!

[4thandGoal]

oh yeah..  a lot of the blame should be on Daboll-- yes we have no weapons but his play calling is atrocious-- he should rely on McCoy more. There should be more creative packages with out lack of talent. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Not much.

 

The Head Coach looks for a stylistic match to his philosophy. 

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

I think McDermott doesn't know offense, first he hired Dennison and now Daboll. You say it's talent, I say it's coaching. What I think will happen is we'll bring in a bunch of fresh bodies and nothing will change. Same old Bills.

 

I say this offense is historically undertalented. 

[Nelius]

I'd say about 75%. We'll knock off 25% for the ***** personnel decisions, the rest is on him. He's horrible.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Nelius

[Pasaluki]

Honestly if it were any other team I'd want Daboll's feet held to the fire, but honestly the main problem is personnel which Daboll doesnt get much say in. Hard to doll up such an ugly pig.

[Victory Formation]

35 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I say this offense is historically undertalented. 

Could be. Who says I'm right? Just my perception and my perception could be wrong.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Pasaluki said:

Honestly if it were any other team I'd want Daboll's feet held to the fire, but honestly the main problem is personnel which Daboll doesnt get much say in. Hard to doll up such an ugly pig.

 

This. Daboll may suck. His career history is certainly less than that of the man he replaced who at least had a history of coordinating middle of the road NFL offenses - Daboll's history is bottom of the pack offenses. 

 

The problem is it is impossible to know. When I watch the all22 each week I am seeing play after play after play fail because players can't execute the basics - block, run routes and catch. 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, 4thandGoal said:

oh yeah..  a lot of the blame should be on Daboll-- yes we have no weapons but his play calling is atrocious-- he should rely on McCoy more. There should be more creative packages with out lack of talent. 

 

Go watch the all 22 of the first 4 weeks. Lots of creative packages - multiple tight end sets, misdirection runs, rpo concepts. He had to abandon them precisely because our lack of talent could not execute. They have massively simplified the gameplans the last two weeks. Everything is half-field read, lots of 21personnel, pared back pre-snap movement. And our collection of misfits, a rookie QB and our 1 actual talent is hardly executing that any better. 

[The Process]

9 hours ago, BillsFanCRNA said:

Coming in after Kiffin, I didn't find him all that creative or innovative at Bama to be honest...

Not soon enough!

Quick ....build a dome and plant palm trees.