Woods, Watkins, Hogan and Goodwin

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

 

So you both would have been fine with the Bills giving him the type of contract the Rams gave him?

I would. He’d easily be the best WR on this team, and would be targeted often. The only OC that made a concerted effort to get him targets was Roman in the second half of 2015. The numbers were pretty good, even with mediocre Tyrod. It’s water under the bridge now, but I’d still have done it. 

[Mark Vader]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

I would. He’d easily be the best WR on this team, and would be targeted often. The only OC that made a concerted effort to get him targets was Roman in the second half of 2015. The numbers were pretty good, even with mediocre Tyrod. It’s water under the bridge now, but I’d still have done it. 

Then you are the first person on this board that I know of to be in favor of it.

 

When Woods walked everyone said the Rams gave him too much.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, mattynh said:

Other than Watkins who was injured people thought that group was trash. 

 

Actually I think Robert Woods was great, Watkins was trash (and an injury faker) and Goodwin was potentially a good player if he concentrated on football.  Check previous posts.

 

And I though Hogan was very underrated by board.

[Aussie Joe]

I recall a lot of people liked Woods, but was he ever going to stay in Buffalo?

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Actually I think Robert Woods was great, Watkins was trash (and an injury faker) and Goodwin was potentially a good player if he concentrated on football.  Check previous posts.

 

And I though Hogan was very underrated by board.

Hogan was the most overrated WR on that roster. 

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

I recall a lot of people liked Woods, but was he ever going to stay in Buffalo?

Probably not. He was never going to be franchised, and he wanted to play in California. 

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

Watkins is on pace for 52 catches, 720 yards and 2 touchdowns for 14 million dollars a year.  For the life of me I do not understand the obsession with this guy.

 

Can someone please tell me what we won when these guys were on the team?  

9 games in a season?

[Boatdrinks]

10 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Then you are the first person on this board that I know of to be in favor of it.

 

When Woods walked everyone said the Rams gave him too much.

And that’s fine. I don’t need others to agree with my opinion to believe in it. The Woods contract seemed like a lot for a utility WR that doesn’t have an elite skill set, but the FA market for WRs took a big jump. Largely because the 2014 class was very good, but subsequent years have produced many flameouts . Teams turned to FA WRs rather than spending more high picks. I think Woods is a fine WR that does many things well. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Boatdrinks

[klos63]

7 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

I recall a lot of people liked Woods, but was he ever going to stay in Buffalo?

I don't think we ever offered him a contract. My thinking was that they didn't feel they could sign both he and watkins, but if they weren't going to sign Watkins, they should have kept Woods.

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, klos63 said:

I don't think we ever offered him a contract. My thinking was that they didn't feel they could sign both he and watkins, but if they weren't going to sign Watkins, they should have kept Woods.

 

Possibly, or maybe he told them not to bother.. he was going home..

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

All could have been retained.  Self-inflicted wound.

That's a lot of $ for average receivers. Rob is decent, but that is tooooo much $ for that group.

Oh, jmo.

1 hour ago, Ray Finkel said:

I thought you said Woods was making more

He did.

[DCOrange]

2 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Watkins is on pace for 52 catches, 720 yards and 2 touchdowns for 14 million dollars a year.  For the life of me I do not understand the obsession with this guy.

 

Can someone please tell me what we won when these guys were on the team?  

 

If you take away the one game where he was knocked out a few plays into the game, he’s on a 16 game pace of over 1,000 yards despite being the #3 or 4 option in the offense. The Bills #1 option will be lucky to hit 500 yards. 

 

And Sammy is still ranked as the 46th best WR by PFF which is roughly 40 spots higher than the Bills top WR.

 

hes obviously overpaid but hes a good player regardless. You could overpay worse guys, like Buffalo has done. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

So you don't like the rebuild?  Me neither. 

I don’t either, but I also know bottoming out is sometimes necessary to gain needed draft capital, shed burdensome K’s, etc. Hated the average 6-10, 7-9, 8-8 mediocre staple that was the hallmark of the drought years just as much as this too, because it was too good to draft top 5, and too bad to make the playoffs. I know the name “Sully” evokes strong reactions around here, both pro and con, but I’ll never forget his description of the Jauronimo years as “a heroic march to 7-9” where hitting that sweet spot was tantalizingly always just out of reach. I just really need the process to deliver double digit wins consistently when this rebuild is all over. Is that too much to ask?

[Protocal69]

Here are they stats for this weeks games

Watkins: 2/18

Woods: 10/109

Goodwin: 4/126 2 td

Hogan: 4/78 

 

Total: 20 catches 331 yards 2 Td

Edited October 16, 2018 by Protocal69

[klos63]

23 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I don’t either, but I also know bottoming out is sometimes necessary to gain needed draft capital, shed burdensome K’s, etc. Hated the average 6-10, 7-9, 8-8 mediocre staple that was the hallmark of the drought years just as much as this too, because it was too good to draft top 5, and too bad to make the playoffs. I know the name “Sully” evokes strong reactions around here, both pro and con, but I’ll never forget his description of the Jauronimo years as “a heroic march to 7-9” where hitting that sweet spot was tantalizingly always just out of reach. I just really need the process to deliver double digit wins consistently when this rebuild is all over. Is that too much to ask?

How often does that actually work?

[SJDK]

2 hours ago, mattynh said:

Other than Watkins who was injured people thought that group was trash. 

I was happy with them as a group but knew our quarterbacks couldn’t use them. Most everyone thought they were a joke. Run blocker comment was spot on

Edited October 16, 2018 by SJDK

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Mark Vader said:

Then you are the first person on this board that I know of to be in favor of it.

 

When Woods walked everyone said the Rams gave him too much.

 

Because WR pay was really just exploding. I think this board struggles to keep up with some trends like that. He’s only the 33rd best paid wr. So a good WR2 pay rate and less than benjamin. 

4 minutes ago, SJDK said:

I was happy with them as a group but knew our quarterbacks couldn’t use them. Most everyone thought they were a joke. Run blocker comment was spot on

 

There was a stretch with that WR group, and our beast defensive line plus mccoy, and a solid secondary and o line that we may have had one of the better 52 man rosters but were missing the most important position 

[brianthomas]

hindsight is 20/20. At the time they probably felt his potential didn't add up to $6 or $7mil per season. And i bet if we wouldve offered him that at the time, many around here would've felt we were overpaying. The job of a GM is a tough one. Most the time it doesnt end well. Not everyone can be a Robert Kraft, bcuz not every team can have a Tom Brady. You just hope you get more hits than misses.

With our situation its hard to evaluate much of anything, given the mess this team was in & how we've purged our dead cap for this year. But starting from 2019, with the players we bring in we'll be able to more accurately see how our GM performs & what type of QB Josh Allen is. Until then we'll be debating this stuff & picking out this & that while this season goes pretty much like we thought it would.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, RPbillsfan said:

Hard to believe this was our WR group in 2014-2015 in comparison to the hot garbage we are fielding now.

 

Makes me ill

 

 

Yeah, because between them, Hogan, Watkins, Woods and Goodwin have put up a massive 1071 yards combined over the first six games of the season. For one guy that would be pretty terrific. For four, not especially impressive.

 

I mean, yeah, that's a better group, but when you look at their salaries, they're not producing all that much despite an extremely impressive bunch of QBs throwing to them.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

7 minutes ago, klos63 said:

How often does that actually work?

Without digging into this too deep, Cowboys 89, Rams 1st yr Goff, Browns last 2 yrs (maybe—they are the Browns after all), Indy (suck for Luck year), Jags 2016 (worst to 1st), Bills 84, 85. I’m positive there are more

[Nihilarian]

The only one I would want back in Buffalo is Hogan as the kid was usually catching first downs for the Bills. So many Bills fans call him a JAG and yet he would do a world of good for a rookie QB by catching those first down passes for the Bills. 

[Nelius]

3 hours ago, RPbillsfan said:

Hard to believe this was our WR group in 2014-2015 in comparison to the hot garbage we are fielding now.

 

Makes me ill

 

Woods is the biggest loss to me, but to be fair Goodwin likely won’t do anything this year while chronically injured without Garapollo, Hogan has seemingly taken a step back (although he’ll probably go for like 170 in a playoff game because Patriots), and Sammy isn’t really even a #2 right now so I get it from a management perspective.

 

Woods however is so legit. I see people talking about him being a dependable #2/#3 in their comparisons to Zay and I wonder where they’ve been the last two seasons. Bob Woods is Hines Ward light right now. Goff loves him. He’s one of the best legit #2’s in the league and is bordering on #1 status. Don’t sleep, we should have never let him go.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

Robert Woods I can agree we should have kept, i always thought he was highly underrated and if we had a QB he'd be a big part of the success. Sammy Watkins is a very talented WR but for some reason like many other talented players in the NFL on Sundays most of the games he's just average. I can't explain why since he has great speed, excellent hands and a top WR attitude but on game day I witnessed many games where you barely knew Sammy was out there and for us most of the time he wasn't due to injury so I had no qualms about Watkins being dealt. I don't get The Goodwin or the Chris Hogan love though, Goodwin was a 1 trick pony and the 1 trick was him making a nice long catch then going into the training room immediately after and out 3-4 games. I like Chris Hogan's story but other than that what has he done, you really think he'd be making Allen a better QB out there? He's never had more than 700 yards or 5 TD passes in his career and that's 2 years with the greatest QB of all time throwing to him. I'm not bashing any of these guys for not winning championships but Woods is the only significant upgrade to what we have now and if Jones keeps playing the way he is we might have our own version on the team already for a much cheaper discount imo.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ol Dirty B]

3 hours ago, mattynh said:

Other than Watkins who was injured people thought that group was trash. 

 

I think the first two were regarded as solid, Watkins and woods. And Hogan has a lot of his WSG supporters. I never was big on Hogan and still don't think he's great.

 

Goodwin I think was unanimously dismissed, and I'm completely confused by what he's doing in San Fran. Maybe it's Shanahan?

[Victory Formation]

Best part about it is, when McD gets fired and we hire a new HC, he's going to come in and cut the players McD drafted on defense. The cycle never ends, we will always be a farm team for the NFL.

Edited October 16, 2018 by NewDayBills

[Ol Dirty B]

26 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

Woods is the biggest loss to me, but to be fair Goodwin likely won’t do anything this year while chronically injured without Garapollo, Hogan has seemingly taken a step back (although he’ll probably go for like 170 in a playoff game because Patriots), and Sammy isn’t really even a #2 right now so I get it from a management perspective.

 

Woods however is so legit. I see people talking about him being a dependable #2/#3 in their comparisons to Zay and I wonder where they’ve been the last two seasons. Bob Woods is Hines Ward light right now. Goff loves him. He’s one of the best legit #2’s in the league and is bordering on #1 status. Don’t sleep, we should have never let him go.

 

I miss Woods a lot. Part of me thinks he'd never achieve this here, so I am happy for him. He played the hand he was dealt, blocked well, always competed. I'm happy he's having success in LA.

 

Still, I'm a Bills fan. Sucks it's not here. 

 

That said, McDermott let him walk and traded Sammy. Then brought in that !@#$ing slough Benjamin. They've done great defensively... but they look absolutely lost on offense, and even on the character front.

39 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, because between them, Hogan, Watkins, Woods and Goodwin have put up a massive 1071 yards combined over the first six games of the season. For one guy that would be pretty terrific. For four, not especially impressive.

 

I mean, yeah, that's a better group, but when you look at their salaries, they're not producing all that much despite an extremely impressive bunch of QBs throwing to them.

 

For 1 guy that'd shatter anything anyone has ever done.

 

But the homer in you has no place for context. 

 

You seriously just made the point that 1,076 yards through 6 games for a WR would be "impressive". They'd be on pace for over 2,500 yards. And Goodwin is dragging that total down and has Beathard throwing to him. He looked great today, but if he is better than anything we have on this roster. We have a serious problem.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[Nelius]

2 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I miss Woods a lot. Part of me thinks he'd never achieve this here, so I am happy for him. He played the hand he was dealt, blocked well, always competed. I'm happy he's having success in LA.

 

Still, I'm a Bills fan. Sucks it's not here. 

 

That said, McDermott let him walk and traded Sammy. Then brought in that !@#$ing slough Benjamin. They've done great defensively... but they look absolutely lost on offense, and even on the character front.

 

 Couldn’t agree more, but was it McDermott or Beane? Somebody deserves credit for this defense and I feel like that’s largely McDermott, but somebody also deserves a s**t ton of blame for the state of this offense especially considering recent moves and I feel like that has to be Beane. Could be completely wrong of course, but I feel like we collectively always group the two together. What if one is okay and the other is completely out of his league? 

 

 

[Ol Dirty B]

3 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

 Couldn’t agree more, but was it McDermott or Beane? Somebody deserves credit for this defense and I feel like that’s largely McDermott, but somebody also deserves a s**t ton of blame for the state of this offense especially considering recent moves and I feel like that has to be Beane. Could be completely wrong of course, but I feel like we collectively always group the two together. What if one is okay and the other is completely out of his league? 

 

 

 

I think McDermott calls the shots but that is just me guessing. I think he gets the credit and the blame. I don't know for sure though the way the organization's decision making works.

 

I also think it's a possibility he just has an old football mentality. He, deservingly so, has confidence in his defense and needing next to nothing on offense. So he's just not even really investing. I think he thinks he has the Pats model down

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[Thurman#1]

20 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

You seriously just made the point that 1,076 yards through 6 games for a WR would be "impressive". They'd be on pace for over 2,500 yards.

 

Yes, I did. Do you disagree? Would you consider it UNimpressive for one WR?

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

They'd be on pace for over 2,500 yards. And Goodwin is dragging that total down and has Beathard throwing to him. He looked great today, but if he is better than anything we have on this roster. We have a serious problem.

 

 

Yup, and 2,500 yards for a group of four receivers really is unimpressive, particularly for four guys who are being thrown to by Brady, Goff, Mahomes and Garoppolo/Beathard.

[Ol Dirty B]

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Yes, I did. Do you disagree? Would you consider it UNimpressive for one WR?

 

 

 

 

 

Yup, and 2,500 yards for a group of four receivers really is unimpressive, particularly for four guys who are being thrown to by Brady, Goff, Mahomes and Garoppolo/Beathard.

 

We've only thrown for 750. And that's rounding up. But keep deflecting with what the issues are here.

 

You're trying to change tone because you know what you were saying was ridiculous after I spelled it out for you.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[Thurman#1]

Just now, Ol Dirty B said:

 

We've only thrown for 750. And that's rounding up. But keep deflecting with what the issues are here.

 

You're an absolutely crap poster. 

 

 

From the guy who comes to the Bills boards and says nothing positive about them ever, I consider that you think that to be proof of high quality.

 

And you're the one who's deflecting. Pretend that the receivers are the only reason for the problem if you must, but you're wrong, as usual.

[Ol Dirty B]

2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

From the guy who comes to the Bills boards and says nothing positive about them ever, I consider that you think that to be proof of high quality.

 

And you're the one who's deflecting. Pretend that the receivers are the only reason for the problem if you must, but you're wrong, as usual.

 

I've given them plenty of credit for the defense. You have a selective memory. You also said that 1,076 yards would be impressive for one receiver as if it was attainable. 

 

You totally tried to flip that post into being not ridiculous.

 

Never said receivers were the only problem either. The line sucks, QB play has been poor. If I say something about that though I get bombarded by blowhards like you that it has only been 5 games. I'm not writing him off, he just hasn't played well.

 

You want to live in your shell, and think everything this team does is great. 

 

You're a jill. I want to see this team win games or show that it is building a football team in the modern era.

 

Defense looks great, I just don't think that's the way you do it. And they're anemic on offense. Outside of Allen and Dawkins, we don't even have youth to look for to grow.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[iinii]

5 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Watkins is on pace for 52 catches, 720 yards and 2 touchdowns for 14 million dollars a year.  For the life of me I do not understand the obsession with this guy.

 

Can someone please tell me what we won when these guys were on the team?  

One man’s trash is another man’s treasure 

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I've given them plenty of credit for the defense. You have a selective memory. You also said that 1,076 yards would be impressive for one receiver as if it was attainable. 

 

Really? I said it was attainable? Where? That's your own interpretation, your own way of desperately trying to find something wrong. If only you'd occasionally react to what was actually there instead of making things up entirely. Clearly it's asking too much. But here's what I actually said:

 

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, because between them, Hogan, Watkins, Woods and Goodwin have put up a massive 1071 yards combined over the first six games of the season. For one guy that would be pretty terrific. For four, not especially impressive.

 

I mean, yeah, that's a better group, but when you look at their salaries, they're not producing all that much despite an extremely impressive bunch of QBs throwing to them.

 

But as usual you were too busy deflecting, backbiting and entirely missing the point to respond to what was actually written. Instead, you just made up something and pretended I'd said it. 

 

I was - obviously - using the subjunctive. "Would." Only someone utterly unconcerned with anything but responding with insults would take that quote and say "as if it was attainable." You made that straw man up out of whole cloth. 

 

2 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Never said receivers were the only problem either. The line sucks, QB play has been poor. If I say something about that though I get bombarded by blowhards like you that it has only been 5 games. I'm not writing him off, he just hasn't played well.

 

You want to live in your shell, and think everything this team does is great. 

 

The reason you get "bombarded" is because you're missing the point. It has in fact only been five games, well six, actually. It is in fact far too early to make definitive or even early conclusions.

 

If "him" is Allen, yeah, he hasn't played well. How could anyone disagree.

 

And if you think I think everything this team does is great, you're even further out in LaLaLand than I'd previously guessed. That's just stupid. I've been more critical of the Bills than positive, overall, which made sense for the whole playoff drought. My biggest issue was probably Tyrod and QBs and I was relentlessly pointing out that we needed to draft a guy high, that Tyrod would never be a franchise guy. If anything I'm smack dab in the middle, though I like this regime more than I've liked one in a long time. Dunno how they'll do but they've at least got a plan and are making intelligent moves like rebuilding and drafting a QB early, though I'd rather have had any of the other three than Allen. But I think Allen has a legit chance ... with time, possibly an awful lot of time and development. But as for this regime, I'm not convinced, just hopeful. They've got to prove it. But it's way way too early for them to have yet proved much of anything.

 

And in no word here do I say the current group of WRs is good. Just that the past group the OP was pining for wasn't all that great. They're overpaid and overrated. I wanted them to keep Hogan and Woods, but teams with cap problems have to cut guys they maybe would like to keep. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Thurman#1

[yungmack]

5 hours ago, mattynh said:

Other than Watkins who was injured people thought that group was trash. 

Only the usual ixiots thought that.

[reddogblitz]

We also had Harvin.

 

That was the year I thought the bills had finally discovered you need good WRs. Didn't last long.

[Coach Tuesday]

I don't think there's any question at this point that the Pegulas are in way over their heads and remain tone deaf about it.  They need to hire an experienced football consultant ASAP to vet all personnel decisions.  They have presided over the complete destruction of the roster.  There was no need for it - and the product is TERRIBLE.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

44 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

We also had Harvin.

 

That was the year I thought the bills had finally discovered you need good WRs. Didn't last long.

People still said that WR group was trash. Let's not act like we were happy with WR then. Fans don't know what they are looking at. They believe what they want to believe. Happens all the time, blame everything but the QB. 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by TheTruthHurts

[ganesh]

8 hours ago, RPbillsfan said:

Hard to believe this was our WR group in 2014-2015 in comparison to the hot garbage we are fielding now.

 

Makes me ill

But what did that Foursome do  ON The field when they donned the Bills colors....Nothing!!!

[SoTier]

8 hours ago, zow2 said:

But as others have said they don’t play special teams.  McD could not use them here ?

 

Wood and Goodwin also didn't buy into "the Process" which they apparently demonstrated by simply wanting to be paid market rate for young veteran WRs with their talent level.

[Nuncha]

9 hours ago, mattynh said:

Other than Watkins who was injured people thought that group was trash. 

Watkins is trash and certainly wasn't worth two number 1 picks from that WR class.  We could have had any other top WR from that draft for ONE pick.  

 

He didn't do squat with the Rams offense, and he's on his same pathetic pace with the Chiefs offense.  

 

Woods and Hogan should still be here.  Goodwin was always hurt so not surprised they didn't keep him around.