Allen looked very good today

[prissythecat]

33 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

They didn't.

 

You don't "know"...you might believe, suppose, predict, or even staunchly assert the opinion that a guy will bust.

 

To say you "know" is quite simply lying.

 

For example, back in June of 2016, I predicted (actually, the terminology I used was "feel like") that Patrick Mahomes would be "special".  I could be on this board pounding my chest about how I "knew"...but the thing is, I didn't.  I believed that he would be special, but I'm not so self-aggrandizing that I'd say that I knew.

 

Apparently,  we can just look at billsareback aka 17 Josh Allen for this lol

[Mark92]

Allen only has like 5 pages from the playbook he is being given.  Because of the lack of help around him and not wanting him to try to do too much they have dialed him back.  It's obvious if you watch them play.  It's the same dink and dunk passes when he can throw 85 yards.  

[sleeby]

38 minutes ago, AllenWillBust said:

 

Except for the teams who decided in the draft Allen was garbage and were not going to pick him, I guess they were just clueless trolls.

You're logic is all wrong.  Deciding to take another player does not equate to thinking JA garbage.  You're thinking would mean that the Giants thought every player not named mayfield or barkley was garbage.  Prove me wrong. . .

[row_33]

45 minutes ago, Success said:

No correlation there.  It’s way to early for anyone to conclude anything.  

 

Need three years and then ask for more time, right?

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

We haven't had a QB for 20 years. You'd think we'd have plenty of practice in telling if a QB has 'it' or not. People are just flat out lying to themselves if they think Josh Allen is a viable NFL QB. I don't care he's a rookie. 

 

 

....um....er...uh....well if you say so........

[GoBills808]

They didn't ask him to do a lot, but for what he was tasked with I thought he was OK. Still had some jitters which led to bad throws in the pocket, but overall he looked more decisive and that's a good thing. I have to guess that this is their plan for him and they're going to bring him along very slowly. I like how he's stood up to it thus far.

 

 

[thebandit27]

22 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

Apparently,  we can just look at billsareback aka 17 Josh Allen for this lol

 

That guy...

 

Nothing like showing up 2 months before the draft, reading all of the work other people have done, passing it off as your own opinion while offering zero analysis of any kind, and then bragging about it.

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Beyond any stats, what did he do well?

Honestly from watching the game it felt like he was doing the job he was asked to do. I could be wrong maybe there were some guys open further down the field. Also as far as improvement I liked that he seemed to find people to throw to for short yardage more often than last game where he threw it away a lot.

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

They didn't ask him to do a lot, but for what he was tasked with I thought he was OK. Still had some jitters which led to bad throws in the pocket, but overall he looked more decisive and that's a good thing. I have to guess that this is their plan for him and they're going to bring him along very slowly. I like how he's stood up to it thus far.

 

 

That's something that I thought might of been part of the gameplan. Early on let him get some short completion to get comfortable  and then as the game progresses open up the field to him more.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Honestly from watching the game it felt like he was doing the job he was asked to do. I could be wrong maybe there were some guys open further down the field. Also as far as improvement I liked that he seemed to find people to throw to for short yardage more often than last game where he threw it away a lot.

That's something that I thought might of been part of the gameplan. Early on let him get some short completion to get comfortable  and then as the game progresses open up the field to him more.

Yeh I think some of it had to do with gameflow, the game was so tight the whole way they wanted to keep everything manageable. I'm guessing it's going to be that way the rest of the year ie prioritizing wins and letting Allen develop organically. 

[DuckyBoys]

1 hour ago, teef said:

this is where i'm at with it.  he needs to keep seeing the game.  it will either slow down for him or...ya know.

Agreed but Daboll needs to open it up.   I'm ok with Josh making mistakes trying to push the ball vertically down the field. The play calling continues to stink.  Goes back to the last season of Tyrod.  Hope the elbow is good to go he needs every rep they can get him. 

[Success]

28 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Need three years and then ask for more time, right?

 

 

 Nah - it’s far better to write someone off after 5 games. 

 

That’s all kinds of smart.

[teef]

1 minute ago, DuckyBoys said:

Agreed but Daboll needs to open it up.   I'm ok with Josh making mistakes trying to push the ball vertically down the field. The play calling continues to stink.  Goes back to the last season of Tyrod.  Hope the elbow is good to go he needs every rep they can get him. 

I’m nervous that it’s more Allen’s ability to read the field than it is coaching, but I’m also not someone who thinks he can’t improve on this. Have they mentioned anything about his elbow at this point?

[Augie]

I’ve been watching Mahomes and Darnold highlights, and they seem to be throwing to WR’s who are WIDE open all over the field! It’s like we are playing a different sport! 

[BillsSbSoon]

I didnt think he was as bad as last week,but honestly its not looking good. They will try to build around him in the offseason, but not sure its going to matter. Rosen has not been lights out yet but hes just a naturally better passer. He wins that game yesterday with the way our defense played.

We may live to regret that decision for years

[CodeMonkey]

14 hours ago, BuffaloBud420 said:

Great throw to Benjamin, his best throw all year. Ashame that's the play he got hurt on. Hopefully it's just a bone bruise. He scrambled well. Get him a line and some weapons, we are off to the races. 

 

Even happier watching Mayfield and Rosen stink it up. Darnold looked pretty good, I always had him and Allen as the top guys.

He looked good standing on the sideline and a couple throws.  Pretty much it.  Don't get me wrong, he could be very good someday if he develops. But he is no where near ready to be playing now.

[Royale with Cheese]

No he did not

[LSHMEAB]

I assume you're referring to his haircut? Not bad I guess.

[DuckyBoys]

25 minutes ago, Augie said:

I’ve been watching Mahomes and Darnold highlights, and they seem to be throwing to WR’s who are WIDE open all over the field! It’s like we are playing a different sport! 

They have talent on offense.  Watkins is the #4 option the Chiefs  Ponder that for a moment  The most talented player the Bills have had on offense in over a decade is the #4 on the Chiefs  Both run innovative schemes  We spent all off season installing a jet sweep to the right and cant even get that play right

[The Bills Blog]

2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Beyond any stats, what did he do well?

A lot! Guys, most plays were positive. I'm not saying he was perfect, but the criticism he's taking today is unbelievable. What exactly are your expectations? Remember, he threw 17 balls, so don't talk about the yardage total.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, The Bills Blog said:

A lot! Guys, most plays were positive. I'm not saying he was perfect, but the criticism he's taking today is unbelievable. What exactly are your expectations? Remember, he threw 17 balls, so don't talk about the yardage total.

 

Specifics please. 

[PayDaBill$]

What’s scary is that in a league that now heavily favors the QB Allen’s numbers are horrid!

 

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by PayDaBill$

[SmokinES3]

15 hours ago, GreatComeback said:

 

He did not look good.  This was the game where I lost confidence in Allen

See, now you take it too far back the other way...

[TheElectricCompany]

4 minutes ago, PayDaBill$ said:

What’s scary is that in a league that now heavily favors the QB

 

Good read on the subject:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/10/10/17958238/quarterback-trend-easy-difficulty-jared-goff-drew-brees-patrick-mahomes

[GimmeSomeProcess]

He looked better vs the Texans than the titans, how are they saying he played worse? Seriously, I’m wondering 

[row_33]

Just now, GimmeSomeProcess said:

He looked better vs the Texans than the titans, how are they saying he played worse? Seriously, I’m wondering 

 

Semantics

[thebandit27]

13 minutes ago, PayDaBill$ said:

What’s scary is that in a league that now heavily favors the QB Allen’s numbers are horrid!

 

 

 

Josh Allen in 6 games:

75/139 (54%), 2 TDs, 5 INTs, 832 yds (6.0 YPA), 21 sacks.  He's also run the ball 35 times for 155 yards, 3 TDs, and fumbled 3 times.

 

Very, very similar to Jared Goff in 2016, whose first 7 games looked like this:

112/205 (54.6%), 5 TDs, 7 INTs, 1,089 yards (5.3 YPA), 26 sacks.  Of course, Goff only had 8 rushes for 16 yards with 1 TD and fumbled 5 times too.

 

Mitchell Trubisky is another very apt comparison...his first 7 games looked like this:

94/178 (52.8%), 4 TDs, 4 INTs, 1,135 yds (6.4 YPA), 19 sacks.  He was better rushing than Goff, having 25 rushes for 175 yads, though he scored 0 TDs and fumbled 6 times.

 

Hmmm...maybe Allen just looks like a rookie, and not like the worst thing ever to happen to football...possible?

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

I’ve been watching Mahomes and Darnold highlights, and they seem to be throwing to WR’s who are WIDE open all over the field! It’s like we are playing a different sport! 

Because they are gaining offensive yards by passing the ball?  I thought you couldn’t do that. 

[DuckyBoys]

18 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Josh Allen in 6 games:

75/139 (54%), 2 TDs, 5 INTs, 832 yds (6.0 YPA), 21 sacks.  He's also run the ball 35 times for 155 yards, 3 TDs, and fumbled 3 times.

 

Very, very similar to Jared Goff in 2016, whose first 7 games looked like this:

112/205 (54.6%), 5 TDs, 7 INTs, 1,089 yards (5.3 YPA), 26 sacks.  Of course, Goff only had 8 rushes for 16 yards with 1 TD and fumbled 5 times too.

 

Mitchell Trubisky is another very apt comparison...his first 7 games looked like this:

94/178 (52.8%), 4 TDs, 4 INTs, 1,135 yds (6.4 YPA), 19 sacks.  He was better rushing than Goff, having 25 rushes for 175 yads, though he scored 0 TDs and fumbled 6 times.

 

Hmmm...maybe Allen just looks like a rookie, and not like the worst thing ever to happen to football...possible?

Why are you bringing reason into the equation?  On with the torches and pitchforks

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Josh Allen in 6 games:

75/139 (54%), 2 TDs, 5 INTs, 832 yds (6.0 YPA), 21 sacks.  He's also run the ball 35 times for 155 yards, 3 TDs, and fumbled 3 times.

 

Very, very similar to Jared Goff in 2016, whose first 7 games looked like this:

112/205 (54.6%), 5 TDs, 7 INTs, 1,089 yards (5.3 YPA), 26 sacks.  Of course, Goff only had 8 rushes for 16 yards with 1 TD and fumbled 5 times too.

 

Mitchell Trubisky is another very apt comparison...his first 7 games looked like this:

94/178 (52.8%), 4 TDs, 4 INTs, 1,135 yds (6.4 YPA), 19 sacks.  He was better rushing than Goff, having 25 rushes for 175 yads, though he scored 0 TDs and fumbled 6 times.

 

Hmmm...maybe Allen just looks like a rookie, and not like the worst thing ever to happen to football...possible?

While this is true, those guys were also much, much better players in their last year of college than Allen in much better conferences. MT, who has his own question marks, completed 68% of his passes for a 30 td/ 6 int split.  Goff competed 65% for 43 tds/ 13 ints.  A little different than 56% for 16 tds/ 6 ints in the MWC.

 

additonally, they both had their defensive coach fired for young offensive coaches from very successful offenses.  We still have a defensive coach and an OC who has been bottom 5-10 OC at every stop he’s been at.

 

i was ready to move on from Tyrod.  I was ready for growing pains.  But Allen is going to be heavily criticized because the overwhelming evidence is qbs with his deficiencies fail at extremely high rate.  And having a coach like McDermott and Daboll doesn’t make you feel much better.  

 

I really hope hope he turns out to be the answer but man, was this an insanely risky pick. 

[thebandit27]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

While this is true, those guys were also much, much better players in their last year of college than Allen in much better conferences. MT, who has his own question marks, completed 68% of his passes for a 30 td/ 6 int split.  Goff competed 65% for 43 tds/ 13 ints.  A little different than 56% for 16 tds/ 6 ints in the MWC.

 

additonally, they both had their defensive coach fired for young offensive coaches from very successful offenses.  We still have a defensive coach and an OC who has been bottom 5-10 OC at every stop he’s been at.

 

i was ready to move on from Tyrod.  I was ready for growing pains.  But Allen is going to be heavily criticized because the overwhelming evidence is qbs with his deficiencies fail at extremely high rate.  And having a coach like McDermott and Daboll doesn’t make you feel much better.  

 

I really hope hope he turns out to be the answer but man, was this an insanely risky pick. 

 

Almost everything you say is indeed factually correct--drafting Allen, however, is in no way risky.  They spent two 2nd-round picks to get him...if it doesn't work, the team drafts another QB in 2020.  No big deal.

 

I wonder about the conclusion you're trending toward though...since Allen had bigger deficiencies than the two QBs I mentioned, should we be more or less encouraged by the fact that he's performing in similar fashion to those guys in his first 1/3 of a season?

 

I will tell you, however,  that there's no reason to believe that Allen is going to benefit from creative, forward-thinking offensive coaching the way the other 2 did. Of course, an off-season of aggressive offensive acquisitions can change that quickly, but we shall see.

[The Bills Blog]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Specifics please. 

Would love to break it down; I just don't have time. Seriously.

[dakrider]

I don't think Allen looked good, but I don't think he looked bad either.  I know there's a big lack of yards but it seems from watching that most of the plays called seem to be outside 5 yard pass plays.   The OC needs to open the playbook up and let Allen throw it downfield more, and let him make mistakes.  

[nedboy7]

The coaching and overall construction of the offensive roster is more depressing than Allen’s lack of progress. Please stop w 10 picks is a rebuild. 

[Bangarang]

2 minutes ago, dakrider said:

I don't think Allen looked good, but I don't think he looked bad either.  I know there's a big lack of yards but it seems from watching that most of the plays called seem to be outside 5 yard pass plays.   The OC needs to open the playbook up and let Allen throw it downfield more, and let him make mistakes.  

 

He can’t read a defense and has poor pocket awareness. Long developing plays is a recipe for disaster especially for a coach that preaches ball security. He’s being given what the coaching staff feels he’s capable of handling and even that is still unimpressive.

[ColoradoBills]

9 hours ago, AllenWillBust said:

 

Allen is a bust, you just have to face facts.  If you want to cheerlead for the next 1.5 seasons, that's fine, you'll eventually realize what smart people knew on draft night.

 

I wouldn't put him as a lock in the Hall of Fame yet.

But it's good to know you have a positive outlook!

[TigerJ]

I thought his play was improved from the Titans game.  He attempted several intermmediate/long passes and was accurate on at least some of them.  He is still taking too much time on a number of plays.  Daboll is stil not placing a lot of trust in him.

[oldmanfan]

Earlier I was asked to explain why I thought Allen showed progress today vs.  the Packers, his worst game.  So I've gone through passing plays from the game to see how I think he did.  My focus was how accurate he was and whether I felt he was making quicker decisions pre-snapand where to go with the ball. Was he decisive, did he make his read and get the ball out.  Things like that.  With that said,  here we go.  And I would love to have some feedback and discussion vs.  the "he sucks" kind of stuff.

 

1st quarter,

 

Drive 1

 1.  Horrible throw to Clay.  Not even close.  Just awful.

2.  Throw to McCoy.  Hung in pocket for a good amount of time, good escape, risky pass back across but his arm strength is an asset there

3.  2nd pass to Clay.  Decisive read and very accurate.

4.  Swing to Clay.  Again decisive, pass was a little low

5.  Benjamin:  long pass into double coverage. Threw it long.  Better long than short into the double coverage- I think he wanted to put it up high for Benjamin to go get but was too long

6.  Over the middle to Zay.  I think if Zay didn't get tackled it's completed.  Again made his read quickly and got the ball out.

 

Second Drive

 

1.  Went through progression to two guys, saw nothing, got yardage scrambling up the middle

2.  Sacked.  Looked at his first read and rush was getting to him.  Thought he might have had more time to maybe get to a second read but I didn't see a safety valve.  But did not try to spin out backwards or make an ill conceived desperation throw like against the Pack

 

Third Drive

 

1.  Quick out to Ray Ray.  Decisive and on target.  Gets criticized for not being accurate on short throws but was right on the money.

2.  Bullet to Clay.  Again decisive and right on target, fit between two defenders.

3.  Rushed by Watt.  Going backward threw to sideline for no gain.  Showed his arm strength but not a great decision, should have just thrown it away.

4.  Short pass to Clay.  Went through progression to second read.  Short no gain.  Not much to say.

5.  Sideline to James.  Low and outside where only Zay could get it.  Placement was the right idea but could have been a bit higher.  May also been a timing thing with Zay not getting to the spot quicker.

 

Fourth Drive.

 

1.  Quick out to Benjamin.  Again a decisive read and on target throw.

2.  Runs for first down but holding negated play.  Thought he locked into his first read too long.

3.  Sack by Watt.  Kept his head up looking for an open guy, eyes were not down looking for rushers as he's done sometimes.  Needed to sense it more and throw the ball away.

 

Fifth Drive:  the swing to Shady to close the half.  Nothing remarkable either way.

 

So looking at this half, when I say I saw improvement, I saw him being more decisive with the ball, which to me means his pre-snap thought process was improved.  He was generally more accurate, and while he should be with short throws that is one of the criticisms he gets.

 

Need to do the third quarter but have to make the birthday dinner for the daughter.  Would like to get others' thoughts.

[Augie]

My single biggest hope for this year is to see progress with Josh. It will NOT be a finished product by any means, but give me hope that he can be The Guy. 

[PearlHowardman]

13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

...have to make the birthday dinner for the daughter.

 

[Jerome007]

Rushed by Watt.  Going backward threw to sideline for no gain.  Showed his arm strength but not a great decision, should have just thrown it away.

It was one of the best pass for zero yards I've seen LOL