Josh Allen injury: “Week-to-Week” with elbow sprain; Returned to practice 11/2

[H2o]

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Matt Moore does not want to play anymore

https://dolphinswire.usatoday.com/2018/09/25/ex-dolphins-backup-qb-matt-moore-reportedly-turns-down-workout-opportunities/

At this point I would sign Kaepernick and drop Peterpick. Honestly, I think Kaep could be semi-successful in this offense. He would at least be similar to Tyrod and he adds the mobility factor back there which is absolutely necessary with this OL. I'm not a Kaep advocate by any means, but it's hard to say that he's probably not the best QB available at this point. 

[YoloinOhio]

40 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Good lord. That doesn’t sound promising. The article basically states that if Allen wasn’t feeling better in a few hours than the elbow might never be the same. Please god no. This kid has all the makings of being great. Nothing like this is needed.

I posted that because the pro football doc said in is live injury assessment (posted above) that it is NOT an injury like Mariota’s (nerve)

Edited October 16, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[billsredneck1]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Bad news I guess?   Since Yolo asked also I'll dish.

 

I think Allen was injured against Green Bay during one of his multitude of sacks and hits.  I think this is a re-hit to an existing injury, which are often worse.

 

Why I think that:

While I believe they genuinely wanted to focus on controlling the LOS and getting the run game going, I think the very low numbers of passes vs Tenn and Hou was because they were trying to play Allen through an injury that left him functional, and had him on a "pitch count". 

 

I think a number of other things point towards an Allen injury after GB:

-The sudden decision to pursue and sign Anderson (why now, and not before? Allen has needed a vet mentor next to him since before Week 1)

-Benjamin's comment about Josh Allen going in earlier than the rest of the team for "his routine" (what takes more time?  pain injections maybe?)

 

It's just my theory and might be totally whack though

apparently they had talked to anderson in the spring and the timing wasn't right for him to make a commitment....so we ended up with ajm who didn't want to mentor, he wanted to play. that's why they traded him.

 

if they start nate in indy it could at least be in part to derek not wanting to,  not ready or not up to game shape.jmo

[billsredneck1]

6 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Agreed, and I can’t imagine DA will take much longer to at least know the basics, especially given he was in a Daboll system in 2009, although of course the verbiage will be completely different 

maybe, but what was the deal he agreed to? play only if it were down to him with no one else able to suit? i just get the feeling that he took the deal to mentor, not lead the team.

i haven't heard about the contract or how much he's making or more importantly incentives.

5 hours ago, SlamnSam said:

Why would they start Anderson ? Makes zero sense. Let Allen learn the game 

well on one hand , he ( josh)could be on the sideline with a headset listening to everything....how DA communicates and manages the game.  could be a huge help in getting josh's head straight.

Edited October 16, 2018 by billsredneck1

[ROCBillsBeliever]

14 hours ago, nucci said:

I don't think he'll ever be ready. He is not a good QB

 

I'll take "Not a good QB", over "Worst QB in NFL history..." #justsayin 

[GG]

5 minutes ago, In Nate We Trust said:

Give him the rest he needs. He is the future of the Bills. Have 100 percent confidence Nate Peterman will keep the Bills in the Playoff Hunt. Win vs Indy will get things going. Even think a conservative offense with Peterman making safe passes combined with great D and good special teams gives them a shot against Pats on Monday Night Football.

 

I think you're right.  Nothing but easy passes to his WRs in the flats.

[nucci]

2 minutes ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

 

I'll take "Not a good QB", over "Worst QB in NFL history..." #justsayin 

well, when the bar is set this low...

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, GG said:

 

I think you're right.  Nothing but easy passes to his WRs in the flats.

Dr Chao basically said that he could play now, but won’t be able to push the ball down the field until it’s healed. I think they will hold him out at least a month unless they have no choice. 

[nucci]

9 minutes ago, In Nate We Trust said:

Give him the rest he needs. He is the future of the Bills. Have 100 percent confidence Nate Peterman will keep the Bills in the Playoff Hunt. Win vs Indy will get things going. Even think a conservative offense with Peterman making safe passes combined with great D and good special teams gives them a shot against Pats on Monday Night Football.

a 10 yd out pattern like the pick 6 is a pretty safe pass

[ROCBillsBeliever]

Just now, nucci said:

well, when the bar is set this low...

 

I would only wish this low a bar on the Cheatriots...

[Buddy Hix]

Remember when fans were apprehensive about taking Rosen because of the concussion history? What's this, the 3rd year out of 4 that Allen has been unable to stay healthy?

[Mrbojanglezs]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

With all due respect to David Chao, I would personally defer to doctors who have actually examined Allen and seen results of his tests.

He has a fine hobby of examining video of plays and of sideline examinations, but I really think he's taking it a bit too far.

 

right. It would be interesting for someone to evaluate his accuracy over the years simply by looking at TV and guessing at it without evaluating him/ reviewing MRI/Xray etc....

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

 

right. It would be interesting for someone to evaluate his accuracy over the years simply by looking at TV and guessing at it without evaluating him/ reviewing MRI/Xray etc....

He’s basing it almost entirely on his failing the UCL stress test. Not really a huge leap on his conclusion that he has a UCL sprain. Sounds like the team doctors saw the same thing. Just have to hope it’s minor.

Edited October 16, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[GG]

16 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Dr Chao basically said that he could play now, but won’t be able to push the ball down the field until it’s healed. I think they will hold him out at least a month unless they have no choice. 

 

Uhm, I was talking about Peterman

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

Uhm, I was talking about Peterman

Oops it’s early

Edited October 16, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[dave mcbride]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Well........if it's a partial tear it really won't ever heal.......and if you are Allen's agent you probably want him to get the surgery out of the way in those "team beneficial only" years.

 

Last thing you want is to nurse it for a couple years and have it pop during year 3 and miss a season and a half and enter free agency in year 5 as a recovering gimp.

Yes, and given what I know about ucl tears in baseball, surgery is a strong likelihood. Tanaka is the real outlier for partial tears; most get the surgery. And even he sat for 3 months while getting platelet therapy. 

20 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s basing it almost entirely on his failing the UCL stress test. Not really a huge leap on his conclusion that he has a UCL sprain. Sounds like the team doctors saw the same thing. Just have to hope it’s minor.

As I understand it, sprains are usually actually partial tears and they don't "heal." I bet he gets the surgery. My son (pitcher) had a sprain and couldn't throw a baseball at all for 5 months last winter. 

 

when I was watching him on Sunday, i saw him focusing on his forearm and he seemed to be shaking it to find feeling. Plus his first throw after the hit was wild. Numbness in the forearm and wildness are the clear signs of ucl issues.

Edited October 16, 2018 by dave mcbride

[frostbitmic]

6 hours ago, BeefCurtns said:

With the predictability and simple garbage this offense is I'm sure Anderson has it down already.

It's a very simple offense

 

1st down - Hand off to McCoy who gets hit as soon as he gets the ball ... struggles to gain 1 yard

2nd down - Hand off to Ivory who goes up the middle for 3 yards

3rd down - Either Anderson runs for his life and throws it away or Peterman throws an INT.

4th down - An adventure as Bojorquez attempts to punt

[GimmeSomeProcess]

18 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Yes, and given what I know about ucl tears in baseball, surgery is a strong likelihood. Tanaka is the real outlier for partial tears; most get the surgery. And even he sat for 3 months while getting platelet therapy. 

As I understand it, sprains are usually actually partial tears and they don't "heal." I bet he gets the surgery. My son (pitcher) had a sprain and couldn't throw a baseball at all for 5 months last winter. 

 

when I was watching him on Sunday, i saw him focusing on his forearm and he seemed to be shaking it to find feeling. Plus his first throw after the hit was wild. Numbness in the forearm and wildness are the clear signs of ucl issues.

But Marriota was only out two weeks

[May Day 10]

If only dumb fans and media who don't know any better saw all this coming...

 

Almost like having Tolbert as your backup running back, but 1,000x more important and devastating

[One Buffalo]

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

 

I'll take "Not a good QB", over "Worst QB in NFL history..." #justsayin 

 

...far more reasonable.......

[YoloinOhio]

14 minutes ago, One Buffalo said:

 

She’s really on top of things... 

Edited October 16, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[Soda Popinski]

what is it about the Colts that we never start our normal QB? 

[McBean]

This team will be boring to watch until he comes back.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

She’s really on top of things... 

Dunkirk Don?

[BigBuff423]

Given how this season has unfolded, I'd almost rather see Josh Allen shut down for at least a month, without question and basically let someone, i.e. D. Anderson, take the team through its lumps. If it's determined Josh needs surgery - unlikely but still a possibility - I think the Bills should trade for a decent QB. 

 

Surgery virtually guarantees Allen to start the year on I.R. in 2019 and giving up two seasons, is not acceptable IMO. At the point surgery is determined to be necessary - again IF it is - then the Bills should cut Peterman, start Anderson this week with whatever he knows, and trade for a decent QB. 

 

To this end I submit Ryan Griffin, QB for the Bucs. He's 28, went UDFA to the Saints, then went on waivers a couple years later and was claimed by the Bucs. He's been developed by Koetter and had a strong 2018 Pre-Season. We've seen that before, but he's also 6'5" and throws a nice ball from what I can see. He played in all four games and didn't throw an interception and has some zip to his throws. I don't think it would take a great deal to pry him from the Bucs, i.e. a 6th maybe? IMHO, he's a guy who is already better than Peterman and certainly has a better arm and has worked his way onto two rosters and even had some articles written in the Pre-Season that he may have been the better choice than Fitzy as the place holder for Winston. Now, Fitzy did Fitzy things and I love the guy, but given how Griffin played, I can understand the discussion. Just a suggestion for discussion and consideration.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

54 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s basing it almost entirely on his failing the UCL stress test. Not really a huge leap on his conclusion that he has a UCL sprain. Sounds like the team doctors saw the same thing. Just have to hope it’s minor.

 

And he's probably correct about it being a UCL sprain.  Physical examination is pretty indicative for this. 

But sprains come in all sorts of severity.   The real question is something Chao can't see on film, how much laxity is there in the joint and is there tearing.

 

I just think Chao has gone over the edge and around the bend with articles like this saying Allen will be out for a month.  He might be, he might not be.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/profootballdoc/sd-sp-pfd-josh-allen-elbow-bills-injury-1015-story.html

9 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Astute observation.  Allen was shaking his right arm in the Green Bay game, if I recall correctly.  You could be right on with this.

The Bills have done such a remarkably poor job managing the QB situation this year, there should be a "how not to" manual written about it with them as Case 'A'.

 

Yes, that is what I saw - shaking his arm and I believe on a couple of occasions reaching across and grabbing his right arm below the elbow with his left.

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

And he's probably correct about it being a UCL sprain.  Physical examination is pretty indicative for this. 

But sprains come in all sorts of severity.   The real question is something Chao can't see on film, how much laxity is there in the joint and is there tearing.

 

I just think Chao has gone over the edge and around the bend with articles like this saying Allen will be out for a month.  He might be, he might not be.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/profootballdoc/sd-sp-pfd-josh-allen-elbow-bills-injury-1015-story.html

Right ... the initial report was that the team didn’t think it was serious but was getting James Andrews opinion to be safe. The doctor in charge of Allen's treatment/ Rehab worked for him at one time, so it makes sense. I’m thinking the Bills docs see a grade 1 sprain (no tearing) but want to be sure. 

 

Chao seems to be saying 2-6 weeks based on not knowing the severity. 2 if it’s a grade 1, 6 if it’s a 2. 4 would be on the  safe side and not rush him back. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[TFBillsfan]

What a mess McDermott and Beane have created with the QB position and the offense. After the Baltimore game NP should have been cut and a proven vet brought in. With Josh out, I believe it’s a no brainer we will be competing for the #1 overall pick. 

[One Buffalo]

 

 

[HansLanda]

Really have to cross our fingers with any type of longterm UCL issues with Allen. Dr. James Andrews is *the* authority on UCL injuries. This could be season ending.

[Like A Mofo]

Of course the Bills won't rusk Allen back. Who wants to groom a 7th overall pick at QB when it is obvious McDermott has a massive stiffie for Nathan Peterman a 5th round pick who averages an INT ever 11 pass attempts?

 

Sean must be overjoyed.

[LFC24]

The second Mcdermott/Beane are gone from this franchise the better off we are 

 

Until then this trainwreck is going to continue. .God i cannot wait until they are fired. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by LFC24

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[HansLanda]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

Terrible, but you can't mess with UCL. Next few weeks may determine if Bills need to consider drafting another QB in the early rounds of 2019 draft. 

[Mark80]

55 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Two completely different sports. 

 

The throwing motion of throwing a baseball is more violent than that of throwing a football. Yes a sprain is a slight tear of the ligament. Just depends on what grade.(how severe the tear is)

 

Id be surprised if he got surgery, but you never know. 

 

I would argue the throwing motion of the QB is more violent for the elbow than it is for a baseball pitcher.  The reason you don't see as many issues with QBs is that they don't throw nearly as much as a MLB pitcher.  QBs are throwing 20-35 times a game once a week.  Baseball (starters at least) are throwing 100 pitches every 5 days.  Plus all the catch they are playing, bullpen sessions etc.  Yes, QBs practice too, but I would assume they don't throw as much during the week either.  Dr. Andrews has been clear that UCL issues arise out of too many throws without enough downtime in the year (that is why he recommends pitchers not throw at all for at least 3 or 4 months out of the year, in order to heal the UCL damage from the course of the year).

4 minutes ago, LFC24 said:

The second Mcdermott/Beane are gone from this franchise the better off we are 

 

Until then this trainwreck is going to continue. .God i cannot wait until they are fired. 

 

The train wreck of making the playoffs for the fist time in 17 years in their first season?  Cool story bro.

[PayDaBill$]

6 minutes ago, HansLanda said:

 

Terrible, but you can't mess with UCL. Next few weeks may determine if Bills need to consider drafting another QB in the early rounds of 2019 draft. 

 

We’re guaranteed to finish and be in contention for the no 1 pick ... make it  the kid from Oregon. He’s the best prospect out of the 18 and 19 drafts.

 

i get Allen didn’t stand much of chance this offense is well....offensive! However  I just don’t think you can pass on Herbert if the option arises.

Edited October 16, 2018 by PayDaBill$

[YoloinOhio]

7 minutes ago, HansLanda said:

 

Terrible, but you can't mess with UCL. Next few weeks may determine if Bills need to consider drafting another QB in the early rounds of 2019 draft. 

Surgery would be on the table for a tear. Chao doesn’t know if there is a tear because he didn’t see the MRI. The Bills doctor did see the MRI and didn’t see a tear (I’m reading into the “team doesn’t believe it is serious” report). I think it’s a small percentage chance he needs surgery. Based on what I’ve seen and read. Technically, it’s not off the table because he doesn’t know anything other than it’s some type of UCL injury and he does not know the severity. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[HansLanda]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Surgery would be on the table for a tear. Chao doesn’t know if there is a tear because he didn’t see the MRI. The Bills doctor did see the MRI and didn’t see a tear (I’m reading into the “team doesn’t believe it is serious” report). I think it’s a small percentage chance he needs surgery. Based on what I’ve seen and read. Technically, it’s bit off the table because he doesn’t know anything other than it’s some type of UCL injury and he does not know the severity. 

 

It's going to be a very interesting next few weeks for the future of this franchise. Either he doesn't need surgery and can get back to 100% in a month or so, or the flip side is they need to rethink the position again via the draft. Not sure if there is a middle ground.

[RochesterRob]

18 minutes ago, TFBillsfan said:

What a mess McDermott and Beane have created with the QB position and the offense. After the Baltimore game NP should have been cut and a proven vet brought in. With Josh out, I believe it’s a no brainer we will be competing for the #1 overall pick. 

  As though proven vets are justing sitting on a shelf someplace waiting to be purchased.  Any QB available during the last offseason had question marks around themselves.  Bridgewater physically sound?  Bradford physically sound?  Cousins worth his price?  Also, losing Eric Wood to retirement and Incognito going off the rails made developing a QB that much more problematic.