Michael Lombardi: Start Josh Allen; 'Ridiculous' to play Nate Peterman because offensive line stinks

[Heavy Kevi]

1 hour ago, brianthomas said:

I get your logic & i might even agree with it. But thats like saying you bought a ferrari & leave it in the garage because youre afraid it might get damaged... well why did you buy a ferrari then? You made the investment to go out & get it, it serves you no use to just let it sit in the garage. Youre never gonna learn how to drive unless you get behind the wheel imo.

Generalized statements on how to handle a rookie qb aside. I think what direction you go in with regards to Josh depends on what you see out of him with the reps he gets. If he looks like he can handle the pressure & remain poised & in control of himself, then throw him out there.

I think if Josh feels like the coaches are afraid to put him out there because he might start doubting himself, that in turn could help make him doubt himself too. It goes both ways imo.

 

You don't leave it in the garage forever... You just wait for the summer.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, Shotgunner said:

 

You don't leave it in the garage forever... You just wait for the summer.

 

Obviously.

[BuffaloHokie13]

7 minutes ago, Shotgunner said:

You don't leave it in the garage forever... You just wait for the summer.

But the OL getting better isn't inevitable like the seasons. This is more like leaving the car in the garage until the county ponies up and repaves your street.

[Lfod]

I mean if the Bills feel that Allen will develop during the season go ahead and start him. Allen has showed signs of life during preseason. Let the Bengals game be his learning experience.

 

To be clear I'm leaning twords Peterman but I also don't deny that the quick passing style might just be a gimmick. He needs to be perfect to make it work. The margin for error is slim. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Lfod

[Boatdrinks]

Of course they feel Allen will develop or they wouldn’t have drafted him. The O line is worse than they probably thought it would be. That’s a problem. Allen on IR sends the process off the tracks. 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Probably more like it hasn't been announced, but they likely already have made a decision.

 

1 hour ago, Figster said:

Myself personally transplant,  and pure speculation mind you on my part.

 

I think McD had already made his mind up about how he wanted Allens development to go and it doesn't include opening up the season against the Ravens. 

 

Preseason game 3 was a good example why...

 

I guess I should rephrase...

 

fascinating it hasn't been announced, yet.

 

Not necessarily surprising, though.

 

I agree that McDermott's already made the decision.

 

But Figster, while I understand the perspective that his decision has been made and it's Peterman, I'm not so sure.  And I don't think anyone who starts or plays or doesn't start or play in tomorrow's game will give us an answer, either.

 

You say McDermott hasn't made the announcement because he wants to take the Ravens by surprise and it will be Peterman taking them by surprise.

 

I think it could be that he didn't make the announcement because the best way to get a rookie QB off to a good start is by giving the opponent a guessing game and that's exactly what he's got going right now.

 

People say Peterman performed the best in the preseason and has the production to show for it, so he's pretty obviously going to be the guy.

 

I think it could be that Allen's performance in that last game, while ugly, demonstrated a certain level of poise and composure in the pocket in the face of extreme pressure that shows he can handle it.

 

 

The real question McDermott, Dabol, and probably to a slightly lesser extent Beane will be answering is whether Allen's beyod the "too raw to start" stage.  Beane has made comments all offseason that the "too raw" narrative by the media was misguided, if not completely false. 

 

People who think the approach will be "our OL is awful, we don't want our investment destroyed so let's start another expendable QB" might have the right idea on what the approach should be, but I believe it's pretty naïve to think NFL coaches approach who starts at QB based on that.

 

As for who starts tomorrow and the inevitable bickering that comes about what it means, nothing about this offseason has been traditional.  I can see McDermott bucking the trend and playing whoever he starts week 1 a lot just in order to get as many reps in for that guy since there's been such a true 3 way rotation of the QBs since OTAs.

 

Anyway, we won't find out until kickoff in Baltimore.  I'm happy with that.  McDermott should keep the Ravens and Harbaugh on their toes anyway.  Maintain any advantage he can.

Edited August 29, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Shut up Michael , remember Derrick Carr and many others shell shocked into oblivion because teams started them with bad lines ??? We are not doing that with Allen !!!

 

 

[BigDingus]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Shut up Michael , remember Derrick Carr and many others shell shocked into oblivion because teams started them with bad lines ??? We are not doing that with Allen !!!

 

 

 

*David

But yes, let's avoid that.

[TheElectricCompany]

48 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

 Next year is when we'll draft and sign several olineman. 

 

There is no guarantee of that. We have no way to predict the draft board and where the value will be in free agency. 

It's great in theory though. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

2 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

*David

But yes, let's avoid that.

 

Yeah , I always mix up their names.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Buffalo Barbarian

[dickleyjones]

this is "the most ridiculous thing [he] has ever heard"?

 

guy needs to get out more...

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Ramza86 said:

Josh would hit the ground 20 times a game. 

 

More times you get sacked/knocked down. More chances you get hurt. 

 

Thats why Mr. Lombardi.

 

He is absolutely correct. You don’t start him because he’s not ready, not because the line blows. 

 

I keep saying this, but Peterman hasn’t been tested in the face of pressure this preseason. 

 

We have no idea if he is any different than last years guy. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

Want a reason Lombardi, David Carr 

[Batman1876]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

He is absolutely correct. You don’t start him because he’s not ready, not because the line blows. 

 

I keep saying this, but Peterman hasn’t been tested in the face of pressure this preseason. 

 

We have no idea if he is any different than last years guy. 

But you can't look at QB in a vacuum. You cant just ask "is he ready to start" you have to consider the team around him I think Allen would be ready to start if he were surrounded by a superbowl quality team (Like Big Ben in 2004.) But I don't think hes ready to start for a rebuilding team. 

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, Batman1876 said:

But you can't look at QB in a vacuum. You cant just ask "is he ready to start" you have to consider the team around him I think Allen would be ready to start if he were surrounded by a superbowl quality team (Like Big Ben in 2004.) But I don't think hes ready to start for a rebuilding team. 

Exactly. Ready to start isn’t close to a finished product. If the line were better, it would be a different decision as Peterman isn’t a seasoned vet and McCarron hasn’t impressed. 

[Victory Formation]

Most talking heads get it completely wrong, totally wrong when it comes to Buffalo. I'd much rather listen to Joe Schmoe on TBD.

[BillsfaninSB]

It doesn’t matter. Whoever we start is not getting to week 3. 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, cd1 said:

 

Allen does just fine (for the most part). He just got rattled last week.  He will learn.

 

One of Nate's biggest assets is his ability to quickly read a defense and make adjustments. Nate's weak arm is his downfall. I think Nate will make for an excellent backup QB and a very good mentor in teaching Josh to "speed read" the defense. 

 

Personally, I think it would be great to let Josh play the whole game tomorrow night. The kid has got everything it will take to be our franchise guy. He just needs enough experience playing at the NFL level. To be able to play in a game where they are not sending out the wolves, he will get experience in more things than picking grass out of his teeth.

 

Make no mistake, Josh is our guy. He just needs some time to get up to speed.

 

IMHO

 

 

Peterman doesn't speed read the defense. He reads pre-snap then pre-determines his throws. Great when everyone is in vanilla cover 2 pre season base defense. A recipe for disaster when teams are disguising coverages in the regular season. I think it looks more like Nate will start week 1. I still say week 4 is the latest Josh takes over. 

[BigDingus]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Peterman doesn't speed read the defense. He reads pre-snap then pre-determines his throws. Great when everyone is in vanilla cover 2 pre season base defense. A recipe for disaster when teams are disguising coverages in the regular season. I think it looks more like Nate will start week 1. I still say week 4 is the latest Josh takes over. 

 

That's preferrable to needing 3+ seconds to analyze and read the field, especially when you're going to get 2 at best on most snaps.

Edited August 29, 2018 by BigDingus

[greeneblitz]

He's exactly right, I can't believe that this franchise is going to screw this up yet another year, they're going to end up ripping fans and maybe even the team apart for absolutely no reason at all, other than Sean McDermott being stubborn on Nathan Peterman, I truly hope that if that's the direction he decides to go he ends up looking like a fool over the same decision two years in a row.

3 hours ago, bmur66 said:

Sacrifice the least valuable first

This is assinine and I doubt any professional coach thinks like this, they aren't gonna use Peterman as a sacrificial lamb.

2 hours ago, Sweats said:

We’ve got a long rich history of ruining QB’s.......in fact, you could stack their failures like cord wood, however, if the FO is serious about our rookie being our franchise QB of the future, then fix the friggin o-line.

Yes we do, however our only single problem is that we (fans and coaches) turn on our young QBs at the first sign of trouble, just as our fans are doing now. Meanwhile most other teams simply ride out the highs and low for a few years.

[Batman1876]

5 minutes ago, greeneblitz said:

 

This is assinine and I doubt any professional coach thinks like this, they aren't gonna use Peterman as a sacrificial lamb.

If McDermott looks at the QBs and thinks none of them are prepared to be successful behind this line who do you think he'll trot out there to fail? 

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, cd1 said:

 

Allen does just fine (for the most part). He just got rattled last week.  He will learn.

 

One of Nate's biggest assets is his ability to quickly read a defense and make adjustments. Nate's weak arm is his downfall. I think Nate will make for an excellent backup QB and a very good mentor in teaching Josh to "speed read" the defense. 

 

Personally, I think it would be great to let Josh play the whole game tomorrow night. The kid has got everything it will take to be our franchise guy. He just needs enough experience playing at the NFL level. To be able to play in a game where they are not sending out the wolves, he will get experience in more things than picking grass out of his teeth.

 

Make no mistake, Josh is our guy. He just needs some time to get up to speed.

 

IMHO

 

 

I think whether Josh is the starter or not week 1, he should play a lot tomorrow.

 

Give him the reps, no matter what.

[dollars 2 donuts]

Next important Bill up!

[Boatdrinks]

It’s asinine to think the Bills FO and coaches don’t think about the injury potential behind this Oline and what it could mean for their plan. If this were last years line brought back intact, Allen would be starting. There’s little to no upside to starting any other QB currently on the roster. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

It's pretty clear to me that Peterman is making quick decisions and buying time with his legs better than Josh Allen right. The line won't be better true. But Peterman will cover up the lines flaws better then Allen can at this point in his career. 

3 hours ago, Starr Almighty said:

Why can't Allen be coached into getting out of the huddle quicker? He acknowledged in his press conference after the Cincy game that he needs to do just that.

 

Of course he can be coached to do it. But all coaching takes time. But the fact is right now Peterman is doing all those things better than Allen. That is why Peterman is the better choice behind this line and why he should start the season.

[brianthomas]

24 minutes ago, greeneblitz said:

He's exactly right, I can't believe that this franchise is going to screw this up yet another year, they're going to end up ripping fans and maybe even the team apart for absolutely no reason at all, other than Sean McDermott being stubborn on Nathan Peterman, I truly hope that if that's the direction he decides to go he ends up looking like a fool over the same decision two years in a row.

This is assinine and I doubt any professional coach thinks like this, they aren't gonna use Peterman as a sacrificial lamb.

Yes we do, however our only single problem is that we (fans and coaches) turn on our young QBs at the first sign of trouble, just as our fans are doing now. Meanwhile most other teams simply ride out the highs and low for a few years.

This exactly. Can you imagine what the narrative would be if Josh Allen started 0-11, just like Troy Aikman did? Or what if he went 4-12, just  like Jim Kelly did?

I understand the concerns people have with throwing Allen into the fire, but just like with most things in life, you learn the quickest thru experience & thru making mistakes & learning from them. Having Josh on the sidelines will just teach him how to hold a clipboard & have him inside of his head the whole game, as opposed to just playing football.

If you believe Allen is your franchise QB going forward, then you go with him. There's always gonna be a risk of injuries, its a physical game. But I can't see McD not starting Allen because he's afraid he might get hurt.

And everyone elses comments about Peterman needing to select a receiver pre snap based on what coverage he sees being a potential liability i agree with.

[Meark]

Mike Lombardi's last team went 7-9, 3-13, and 1-15. Got worse every year. 

[billsredneck1]

4 hours ago, cd1 said:

 

Ummmm - YES. 

 

The reason being that if you can get in and out of the huddle faster to allow more time to read and make adjustments to the line pre-snap THEN get the ball out QUICKER - THOSE things minimize the defects of the terribly offensive, offensive line.

thanks ....common sense...x1000

[tumaro02]

4 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  As others have said in other threads I don't think that Josh is up to NFL speed just yet.  Only the coaches know how he responds to frustration but odds are a few bad outings will impede his overall progress.  Yeah, I know the Manning Boys and others were thrown to the wolves and rounded into top QB's but more just wear down to where they lose confidence long term.  It's not going to be a run to the SB this year so lets develop guys including the 2018 rookie class.

If Josh is not up to speed its because McD preached his "trust the process" crap and this coming from a second year defensive head  coach whose own defense stinks!! So his process was to give the VAST majority of the Varsity reps to Peterman and McCarron against the Varsity defense. So I wonder who would be better able to "process" the speed of the  game more in preseason Game 3.... Peterman or Allen?  It was his FIRST real action against a teams Varsity defense.....and its all because McD the sophomore head coach didn't give the #7 draft pick substantial time vs live action with the Varsity defense to get the uptempo speed down... Now your  worried about his long term confidence? Really? You are drinking too  much McClown koolaid I think.

[DuckyBoys]

Lets bubble wrap Josh Allen put him in a box that says don't open till 2020 and put him in the closet. That should be about the time the O Line gets fixed.

[row_33]

4 hours ago, Flip Johnson said:

Rob Johnson's offensive line was terrible. It didn't get good for Flutie - he just hid it with mobility and quicker decisions.

 

Even with Glenn-Incognito-Wood, this team's pass protection has not been good in a long time. Tyrod just masked that.

 

 

Flutie worked from the shotgun and was rolling to either sideline immediately on most downs.

 

Jim Kelly had minimal protection and took brutal beatings out there, took five years off his prime easily

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I’m still trying to remember who this guy is

[Boatdrinks]

13 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Flutie worked from the shotgun and was rolling to either sideline immediately on most downs.

 

Jim Kelly had minimal protection and took brutal beatings out there, took five years off his prime easily

 

 

It’s a forgotten fact thatJim  Kelly took a ton of punishment, especially in his early career. Kelly was sacked a whopping 153 times in his first 3 seasons ( USFL and NFL) alone. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Batman1876 said:

But you can't look at QB in a vacuum. You cant just ask "is he ready to start" you have to consider the team around him I think Allen would be ready to start if he were surrounded by a superbowl quality team (Like Big Ben in 2004.) But I don't think hes ready to start for a rebuilding team. 

 

Actually it’s exactly what you do. He’s either executing better or worse than the other guy.

 

He eother indersands the offense and playbook, or he doesn’t yet. 

 

He either reads defense correctly or doesnt yet. 

 

Whoever is more prepared to start is the guy you start, whether surrounded by superstars or super scrubs. 

 

[oldmanfan]

Of all the talking heads that sell themselves as football experts, but in reality have no clue, of all them I put Lombardi at the bottom of the list in terms of any actual clue.

[Putin]

5 hours ago, Flip Johnson said:

Rob Johnson's offensive line was terrible. It didn't get good for Flutie - he just hid it with mobility and quicker decisions.

 

Even with Glenn-Incognito-Wood, this team's pass protection has not been good in a long time. Tyrod just masked that.

 

Tyrod was good at masking a lot of things unfortunately that doesn’t translate in to W’s !

[Batman1876]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Actually it’s exactly what you do. He’s either executing better or worse than the other guy.

 

He eother indersands the offense and playbook, or he doesn’t yet. 

 

He either reads defense correctly or doesnt yet. 

 

Whoever is more prepared to start is the guy you start, whether surrounded by superstars or super scrubs. 

 

The skill of the players around changes how you value strengths and weaknesses of the QB. It’s not black and white. Peterman gets rid of the ball quick but can’t throw deep or to the boundaries. With a better line he’s the less appealing QB with our line that quick delivery is a premium skill. With a good line Allen would be the better choice, his slower ball delivery would be offset by his ability to throw anywhere. 

[transplantbillsfan]

[Fadingpain]

Allen should play Week 1 and the line shouldn't matter.

 

That's always been the case and it's no different now.

 

Only way that would not be correct is if Allen was clearly a train wreck incapable of playing, but he's not.

 

 

[OldTimer1960]

6 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  As others have said in other threads I don't think that Josh is up to NFL speed just yet.  Only the coaches know how he responds to frustration but odds are a few bad outings will impede his overall progress.  Yeah, I know the Manning Boys and others were thrown to the wolves and rounded into top QB's but more just wear down to where they lose confidence long term.  It's not going to be a run to the SB this year so lets develop guys including the 2018 rookie class.

I agree and Peyton was the 1st overall pick, so he got plenty of benefit of his he doubt.  For Allen, there are a ton of media and fans waiting for one bad outing, maybe one bad quarter to say “see I was right - he is inaccurate and can never improve.  Told you it was a stupid pick”.  That narrative is lying in wait to be sprung and when this team is 0-6 because they have a HS offensive line and a poor receiver group, how many are going to be calling for his head?  - never mind the regression in mechanics that he is likely to suffer running for his life waiting for receivers that will never get open.  Sacks, throw always and INTS - and the narrative will be complete.  Path to a ruin d prospect...