Interesting Astro Tweet re: Beane

[BuffaloBill]

19 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Probably, but part of the trade is the agreement to pay him what the Raiders won't so that is going to limit how much a team is willing to give up considering they are going to have to basically make him the highest defensive player in the NFL.

 

Anyways, here is the discussion by ESPN Reporter on Raiders Wire

https://raiderswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/07/espn-raiders-de-khalil-mack-could-be-a-trade-candidate/

 

 

The Bills don’t have the cap space this year. Even if they do there is still the risk that they again pay huge money to one player and the performance drops. 

[JoeF]

If Jon Gruden is going to alienate his team's best pass rusher and publicly shame his best offensive tackle....I am really glad he got the Oakland job.  Have at it Chuckie...

6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Even if we cant get Mack.....I would still like to be in on the Donald Penn trade.

 

With Dawkins and Penn book ending the OT spots...this group looks a lot better.

If Donald Penn is a consolation prize....I think I like this game. 

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

I'm enjoying these 19 pages as much as the next guy, but it's starting to sound too much like the Mario Williams threads before we signed him.. And we all know how that ended up. I'm not trying to compare the two players, just comparing the enthusiasm around the possible signing of each. There's the saying be careful what you wish for

[Logic]

The Saints used two 1st round picks to get Marcus freakin Davenport. You're NOT getting Mack for one 1st round pick. 

The poll should be "Should the Bills give up two 1sts and a 3rd for Khalil Mack?"...and even THAT might not get it done.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....just a hunch...both Mack and Donald want "north of Von Miller" paydays......don't see that kind of money or surrendering first(s) in McBeane's "wheelhouse".....

[Zebrastripes]

2 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

I'm enjoying these 19 pages as much as the next guy, but it's starting to sound too much like the Mario Williams threads before we signed him.. And we all know how that ended up. I'm not trying to compare the two players, just comparing the enthusiasm around the possible signing of each. There's the saying be careful what you wish for

Mario was an extremely productive Bill registering 38 sacks in his first 3 years here.  Then Rex came in and we all know what happened after that.

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

4 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

I'm enjoying these 19 pages as much as the next guy, but it's starting to sound too much like the Mario Williams threads before we signed him.. And we all know how that ended up. I'm not trying to compare the two players, just comparing the enthusiasm around the possible signing of each. There's the saying be careful what you wish for

It ended up great until we got a coach that didn't play him right. 

[MPT]

3 hours ago, BillsFan17 said:

Or, they have smart GMs who can maneuver around and work the cap to their advantage. 

 

This is what separates good GMs from bad ones.

 

Obviously the better GM's will put themselves in good cap position to be able to work out necessary moves, but to say that a good GM can work out a contract regardless of his cap situation is just wrong. Numbers mean things. 

[Virgil]

If this is an option and we know this year isn’t going to be competitive, why not just try to sign him as a FA?  

 

With where our team will be with picks and cap space, why do it now when it could be easier later?

[MPT]

29 minutes ago, Dadonkadonk said:

Seahawks and Broncos just did in the last 5 years. Not sure what you mean by slim odds

 

The Broncos would fall in that category, but not the Seahawks. Russell Wilson and Marshawn Lynch disqualify them from that list. 

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

shoulda woulda coulda, yet the Bills  ended up paying about 67 mill of the 100 mill , 50 mill guaranteed contract for 3 years work (and remember these are 2012 salary figures). I'm just saying, things happen. Mack, if it happens , could be great, but the threads then and now share a certain resemblance.

[Fadingpain]

35 minutes ago, Dadonkadonk said:

Seahawks and Broncos just did in the last 5 years. Not sure what you mean by slim odds

One with a QB way better than anything the Bills have had since Jim Kelly, and the other with one of the greatest QBs of all time and headed straight to the HOF...admittedly at a time when his arm was completely shot.

But neither of those examples, IMO, demonstrate that an all-defense approach can work. 

 

Look at the Superbowl last year! Something like 1150 total yards of combined offense; 54 combined points; 874 combined passing yards....

 

This league isn't about defense.

 

 

[DieHardBillsFan]

We would have to trade something of high value and then pay Mario Williams money to keep him. Honestly this money would be going to the wrong side of the ball. The story/player is really great, but the defense is already solid as is. The Offensive line and the WR need the investments right now or save it for the future. If Hughes was dropped then that money would make it somewhat bearable, but then we have dead weight on next years cap. Love Mack though. If we got him, I'd have his jersey by game day.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

One with a QB way better than anything the Bills have had since Jim Kelly, and the other with one of the greatest QBs of all time and headed straight to the HOF...admittedly at a time when his arm was completely shot.

But neither of those examples, IMO, demonstrate that an all-defense approach can work. 

 

Look at the Superbowl last year! Something like 1150 total yards of combined offense; 54 combined points; 874 combined passing yards....

 

This league isn't about defense.

 

 

 

...good point...harken back to the '85 Bears......legendary defense.....and the OFFENSE hung 46 on the Pats, Grogan and company......the 2000 Ravens with the prolific Dilfer were more of an anamoly IMO....

[Bill from NYC]

I for one would be loathe to trade away our draft resources for a linebacker, even a great one.

 

The truth is, an early pick would not surprise me after this season.  I would rather see the Bills draft an offensive tackle and a pass rushing defensive end with the multiple picks that it would cost for Mack.

 

If they do decide to trade for Mack I won't be furious mind you. It wouldn't be quite as stupid as trading for Sammy, but imo it would be counter productive in terms of building a winning team in the long and perhaps even short term.

[Beast]

No.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

28 minutes ago, Zebrastripes said:

Mario was an extremely productive Bill registering 38 sacks in his first 3 years here.  Then Rex came in and we all know what happened after that.

 

...he certainly was in spite of it being a Brandon deal.....and then the Wrecks ruination...ironically, Mario's first stop when coming to talk with Buffalo was Jimbo Kelly's house.....keep in mind that Mario, a NC native, is an avid hunter.....Kelly was chomping at the bit because there were three or four deer in his backyard along with a bunch of wild turkeys (LOL, I saw the pics).....Mario finally shows up, signs with Buffalo and buys the house in the cul de sac across from Kelly out of foreclosure....

[Zebrastripes]

22 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

shoulda woulda coulda, yet the Bills  ended up paying about 67 mill of the 100 mill , 50 mill guaranteed contract for 3 years work (and remember these are 2012 salary figures). I'm just saying, things happen. Mack, if it happens , could be great, but the threads then and now share a certain resemblance.

So just to get this straight you don't want Mack because of what happened with Mario?

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

40 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

It ended up great until we got a coach that didn't play him right. 

I guess the Dolphin coach in 2016 'didn't play him right' either

5 minutes ago, Zebrastripes said:

So just to get this straight you don't want Mack because of what happened with Mario?

As I said, Mack could be great. (please read my words). Just said the Mario and Mack threads resembled each other. It's not whether I want him or not, it's that unbridled enthusiasm on this site does not always end as everyone thinks it will. PS-I'd probably want him, but realize McBeane knows more than I do. Que sera sera

Edited August 8, 2018 by lookylookyherecomescookie

[Bill from NYC]

27 minutes ago, Virgil said:

If this is an option and we know this year isn’t going to be competitive, why not just try to sign him as a FA?  

 

With where our team will be with picks and cap space, why do it now when it could be easier later?

This is a well thought suggestion.

I wouldn't think it possible sans the Buffalo roots Mack has. I really, REALLY am against trading away our precious draft picks; I'm sure its a Whaley hangover of sorts. If they sign him as a UFA they will still have picks and they might be early ones at that.

If this club is finally managed correctly, we will soon have a winner.

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

If life were so simple, would you have 18 pages of posts in this thread?

 

You're right. If this was anything of substance - we'd be at 150 pages by now.

[Rico]

7 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

This is a well thought suggestion.

I wouldn't think it possible sans the Buffalo roots Mack has. I really, REALLY am against trading away our precious draft picks; I'm sure its a Whaley hangover of sorts. If they sign him as a UFA they will still have picks and they might be early ones at that.

If this club is finally managed correctly, we will soon have a winner.

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed.

 

We already have a winner though, it happened as soon as Whaley left town.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

14 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

No.

 

 

..LMAO!....got right "to the point" Cliff Notes version style.....ain't happenin' bud.....

[Zebrastripes]

5 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

I guess the Dolphin coach in 2016 'didn't play him right' either

As I said, Mack could be great. (please read my words). Just said the Mario and Mack threads resembled each other. 

So I take it you do want Mack.  You however make the Mario signing sound horrible then go on to compare the two as similar.  I guess I'm just confused about the way you delivered everything.

[Best Player Available]

46 minutes ago, Virgil said:

If this is an option and we know this year isn’t going to be competitive, why not just try to sign him as a FA?  

 

With where our team will be with picks and cap space, why do it now when it could be easier later?

Wouldn't they franchise tag him? Then I believe you are still looking at giving up two first rounders.

[JaCrispy]

I would love Mack...I just think we desperately need to upgrade the OL and WR and giving up the kind of draft capital that Mack would require, along with the massive contract, would greatly hinder our ability to upgrade the offense.

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

5 minutes ago, Zebrastripes said:

So I take it you do want Mack.  You however make the Mario signing sound horrible then go on to compare the two as similar.  I guess I'm just confused about the way you delivered everything.

just saying the threads are similar, that's all. Not saying the Mario signing was horrible, just that when all was said and done, Mario didn't pan out the way everyone hoped. The enthusiasm, hopes and expectations on this site were sky-high, and ultimately were ,at least in my mind, unmet. If this whole Mack thing happens, I would welcome it and hope things go great. I'm really not comparing the 2 players, or predicting that the results will necessarily be the same.  Just remarking on how everybody was going crazy before we signed Mario, and it reminds me of what's going on now in regard to Mack.

[GreggTX]

His talent certainly is exceptional, but even if Allen is elite and Coleman finds new life, we are desparate for OL help . So I have to ask how much first. Also, he would replace either Murphy or Hughes or Shaq and they could be part of that trade too. Maybe we could put him at SSLB where we need to find Lo's replacement, but I think his talent is wasted there. I'd put him at RE (again, if we have enough free space to rebuild our OL.) 

[Dadonkadonk]

46 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

One with a QB way better than anything the Bills have had since Jim Kelly, and the other with one of the greatest QBs of all time and headed straight to the HOF...admittedly at a time when his arm was completely shot.

But neither of those examples, IMO, demonstrate that an all-defense approach can work. 

 

Look at the Superbowl last year! Something like 1150 total yards of combined offense; 54 combined points; 874 combined passing yards....

 

This league isn't about defense.

 

 

Totally agree about last year. But come on Manning was the worst QB to win a SB and Wilson was not yet the QB he is now.  

You can win multiple ways in this league. Brady won his first two SuperBowls with defense.

A great QB helps but so far Rodgers has only one ring in part because the Packers defense is crap.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Yes. 

 

He should have been a Buffalo Bill from the beginning. 

[Zebrastripes]

3 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

just saying the threads are similar, that's all. Not saying the Mario signing was horrible, just that when all was said and done, Mario didn't pan out the way everyone hoped. The enthusiasm, hopes and expectations on this site were sky-high, and ultimately were ,at least in my mind, unmet. If this whole Mack thing happens, I would welcome it and hope things go great. I'm really not comparing the 2 players, or predicting that the results will necessarily be the same.  Just remarking on how everybody was going crazy before we signed Mario, and it reminds me of what's going on now in regard to Mack.

Ok, I see what you're saying and it makes sense.  I do wonder what percentage of people would consider the Mario signing a success or a disappointment.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

The Saints used two 1st round picks to get Marcus freakin Davenport. You're NOT getting Mack for one 1st round pick. 

The poll should be "Should the Bills give up two 1sts and a 3rd for Khalil Mack?"...and even THAT might not get it done.

You’re out of your mind.  If any team offered two firsts for Mack, the Raiders would jump all over it.

 

Davenport is six years younger than Mack and will be playing for relative peanuts for at least the next four years.  Mack will be looking to sign a six-year deal for at least $18 M per year.  That being said, the Saints still got fleeced.

Edited August 8, 2018 by mannc

[jamiezzz]

1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

 

Jeremy White from WGR retweeted it and when I saw it I almost died. 

 

Had to share with my pals over here. 

So did he delete it?  

[GreggTX]

4 minutes ago, Dadonkadonk said:

Totally agree about last year. But come on Manning was the worst QB to win a SB and Wilson was not yet the QB he is now.  

You can win multiple ways in this league. Brady won his first two SuperBowls with defense.

A great QB helps but so far Rodgers has only one ring in part because the Packers defense is crap.

Yeah, you can still win a SB with defense maybe 10% of the time and the other 90% comes down to O, mostly passing. It used to be mostly about running and D. Also, I wouldn't dismiss the wins by Brady, Wilson and Manning. Peyton might not have had the best  arm any more, but he was probably the smartest QB of the modern era. He was very proud of his work ethic and preparedness. Also, NE's defense is usually good, but you dismis Brady too easily IMO.

 

On the other hand, the run game could make a comeback if the shortage of quality O Linemen were to end.

[swnybillsfan]

5 minutes ago, Zebrastripes said:

Ok, I see what you're saying and it makes sense.  I do wonder what percentage of people would consider the Mario signing a success or a disappointment.

i would consider it both. it was incredible that he chose Buffalo. then the contract was such that he could never be worth the money. there were amazing games and baffling disappearances. he was incredible with schwartz, horrible with ryan. he was quirky when we were successful, and a disgruntled diva when we weren't. it was the very definition of a "mixed bag". 

[BillsFan17]

1 hour ago, MPT said:

 

Obviously the better GM's will put themselves in good cap position to be able to work out necessary moves, but to say that a good GM can work out a contract regardless of his cap situation is just wrong. Numbers mean things. 

And numbers are malleable in the NFL. 

[TFBillsfan]

Adding a player like Mack would be great, but realistically I’m not sure he would add more W’s to our win column to justify how much we’d have to give up. Our biggest weakness is our offense. We need to determine if we have a franchise QB in Allen first. We need a #1 WR, OL help and we will need a replacement for McCoy soon. Do we really want to give up draft capital and that much cap space to acquire Mack? 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

are we there yet?

 

[GreggTX]

19 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

An extremely dominate D can win Super Bowls.  Ravens have done it, Tampa did with Trent Dilfer as QB, Steelers nearly made the super bowl Big Ben's rookie year on the back of their D.  

Yup. An extremely DOMINANT defense is what you'd need.

[YoloinOhio]

55 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You're right. If this was anything of substance - we'd be at 150 pages by now.

More recipes would help