Bills Offense ‘17 vs ‘18

[SCBills]

Projected ‘18:

 

‘17 Dawkins/Incognito/Wood/Ducasse/Mills

’18 Dawkins/Ducasse/Bodine(Groy)/Miller/Mills

 

-Replace Incognito/Wood with Miller/Bodine(Groy)

 

’17 McCoy/Tolbert/Cadet

’18 McCoy/Ivory/Cadet

 

-Replace Tolbert with Ivory

 

’17 DiMarco

’18 DiMarco

 

’17 Clay/O’Leary/Thomas

’18 Clay/O’Leary/Thomas

 

’17 KB/Zay/Thompson/Holmes 

‘18 KB/Coleman/Kerley/Zay

 

-Replace Thompson with Coleman/Kerley

 

’17 Tyrod/Peterman 

‘18 McCarron/Allen (or vice-versa)

 

-Replace Tyrod with AJ or Allen

 

On paper, which offense do you prefer?

 

Edited August 6, 2018 by SCBills

[RPbillsfan]

The 2018 is much better

[Ol Dirty B]

This list makes me feel A) worse about this year, and B) generally depressed because somehow this receiving corps on paper looks better than last year's. However, I will say you left Matthews out. Granted he got hurt, but the name makes the 2017 WRs look better on paper. 

1 minute ago, RPbillsfan said:

The 2018 is much better

Much? Da !@#$?

[JoPar_v2]

Doesn’t look too bad...’course it will all come down to the QB play (as it always does.)

[wppete]

2018. 

[Troll Toll]

If Allen is good enough to start, ‘18... otherwise ‘17. Allen should be so much better than Tyrod as a passer that this offense will take steps forward despite weaknesses at OL and receiver. If Zay Jones can take a big leap forward we may even have a “good” offense when paired with Allen. Plus, I’m expecting another step forward for the defense.

 

If McCarron starts I think we’ll be looking at a 7-9 or 6-10 type of season. He is a downgrade from Tyrod. Not a good look for Allen if McCarron starts more than a few games.

 

I don’t even want to entertain the thought of Peterman starting.

[OCinBuffalo]

I'd prefer to see some film. We don't even have a clue of what the basics of this offense are, what it emphasizes, who is keyed on, etc. 

 

Sorry, but when one adds a unknowable Daboll offense to the "paper" we are supposed to consider, it's just not doable. 

 

Put another way: the OC that created the '17 offense was flat our fired, which surprised no one. Given that, it's hard to say that the next offense won't be better. It could be just as bad, but, hey, I doubt it. How many stupid play concepts, never mind calls, does Daboll's mere existence delete from last year's offense?

 

We used Shady stupidly for far too many games(hence Ivory now), and, missed opportunities to use him as well, last year. How do I make an on-paper player comparison, when it's ostensibly the same exact player, in a completely different offense, run by a supposedly much better coach? 

[Ol Dirty B]

13 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

If Allen is good enough to start, ‘18... otherwise ‘17. Allen should be so much better than Tyrod as a passer that this offense will take steps forward despite weaknesses at OL and receiver. If Zay Jones can take a big leap forward we may even have a “good” offense when paired with Allen. Plus, I’m expecting another step forward for the defense.

 

If McCarron starts I think we’ll be looking at a 7-9 or 6-10 type of season. He is a downgrade from Tyrod. Not a good look for Allen if McCarron starts more than a few games.

 

I don’t even want to entertain the thought of Peterman starting.

 

You gotta pay the troll toll if you wanna get in the boys soul.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[JerseyBills]

19 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Projected ‘18:

 

‘17 Dawkins/Incognito/Wood/Ducasse/Mills

’18 Dawkins/Ducasse/Bodine(Groy)/Miller/Mills

 

-Replace Incognito/Wood with Miller/Bodine(Groy)

 

’17 McCoy/Tolbert/Cadet

’18 McCoy/Ivory/Cadet

 

-Replace Tolbert with Ivory

 

’17 DiMarco

’18 DiMarco

 

’17 Clay/O’Leary/Thomas

’18 Clay/O’Leary/Thomas

 

’17 KB/Zay/Thompson/Holmes 

‘18 KB/Coleman/Kerley/Zay

 

-Replace Thompson with Coleman/Kerley

 

’17 Tyrod/Peterman 

‘18 McCarron/Allen (or vice-versa)

 

-Replace Tyrod with AJ or Allen

 

On paper, which offense do you prefer?

 

KB and Cadet wasn't here until halfway point , him being healthy alone makes this a much better wr group . Coleman/Zay have big untapped potential..  Tyrod is a terrific athlete but horrendous QB. 

 

Biggest difference is Dennison and Daboll. I love that McD and co moved on after one year. Dennison's scheme was also horrendous. 

 

I like 18 by a big margin. I really think we struck gold with McBeane 

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, OCinBuffalo said:

I'd prefer to see some film. We don't even have a clue of what the basics of this offense are, what it emphasizes, who is keyed on, etc. 

 

Sorry, but when one adds a unknowable Daboll offense to the "paper" we are supposed to consider, it's just not doable. 

 

Put another way: the OC that created the '17 offense was flat our fired, which surprised no one. Given that, it's hard to say that the next offense won't be better. It could be just as bad, but, hey, I doubt it. How many stupid play concepts, never mind calls, does Daboll's mere existence delete from last year's offense?

 

We used Shady stupidly for far too many games(hence Ivory now), and, missed opportunities to use him as well, last year. How do I make an on-paper player comparison, when it's ostensibly the same exact player, in a completely different offense, run by a supposedly much better coach? 

Agreed.  

 

I should also add “Replaced Dennison with Daboll”.  

[LeGOATski]

I feel better about '17 because of the o-line and we knew what we had at QB. I was certain that the offense would be good enough.

 

This year, the o-line looks terrible and they're probably gonna start the rookie QB. Shady's another year older.

 

I'm not being negative, this is just reality. There is definitely a possibility the QB play will be better and the offense better overall. Keeping the expectations low, though.

[Ol Dirty B]

RB is an upgrade, WR is an upgrade, but the line I think could he so much worse.

 

I think QB is probably down also. However like some of the last few posts mentioned, Daboll. I continually neglect the change at OC when I post negatively about the offense. I do think he could be a major upgrade and make 18 way better than 17.

8 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

KB and Cadet wasn't here until halfway point , him being healthy alone makes this a much better wr group . Coleman/Zay have big untapped potential..  Tyrod is a terrific athlete but horrendous QB. 

 

Biggest difference is Dennison and Daboll. I love that McD and co moved on after one year. Dennison's scheme was also horrendous. 

 

I like 18 by a big margin. I really think we struck gold with McBeane 

 

He's not a horrendous QB man. Stop it.

 

Your post is so homerific. You have cadet, Coleman, and zay all doing things they've never show they're capable of.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[Starr Almighty]

I'd prefer the line to be Dawkins/Groy/Bodine/Miller/Mills

[OCinBuffalo]

52 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Agreed.  

 

I should also add “Replaced Dennison with Daboll”.  

Perhaps, but do you agree that this change has 10X the effect of changing out 1 player? 

 

Consider: The year before Dennison we were the premier power blocking run team in the NFL, and probably of the last 10 years. If you can do power, you can own people. We did. We were the #1 rushing team in the league by design, not by default. Then, Dennison comes in last year and changes the entire run concept, for ALL of our run plays(the first 4 games), to zone blocking...because "system".  When Dennison realized his idiocy was gonna cost him his job? Presto, we start running more power plays(last 6 games).

The players we had, both individually and as a group, were not the best fit  for zone. Zone is about getting to a spot first, then using that spot + body position to create holes, thus it emphasizes quickness and flexibility(like wrestling). Power is about being assigned a target, or two, lining up on them, and then: destroy, which emphasizes size and strength(like heavyweight boxing). ALL O lineman need minimums in all 4 characteristics I mentioned to make an NFL squad. It's the emphasis the scheme places on each characteristic, that makes one guy "better" than the next. Thus, a bunch of guys who are above average in all 4, but, are really big and strong(like we had 2 years ago), means you do power: every play you seek and destroy. "Coaching" that ignores their strengths and focuses on what they are only average at, for the sake of a scheme? Folly.

 

Which kind of run concept do the Bills favor today, right now? No one has any idea. Therefore, we can't know if our players today are a better fit than the players last year. The only thing we do know: Dennison is gone and so are his silly notions about forcing players into his system, rather than forcing his system to fit the players(or making a new system entirely).

 

For all we know, the players we have today, right now, fit a zone scheme better than power. See the problem? 

[SoTier]

20 minutes ago, OCinBuffalo said:

Perhaps, but do you agree that this change has 10X the effect of changing out 1 player? 

 

Consider: The year before Dennison we were the premier power blocking run team in the NFL, and probably of the last 10 years. If you can do power, you can own people. We did. We were the #1 rushing team in the league by design, not by default. Then, Dennison comes in last year and changes the entire run concept, for ALL of our run plays(the first 4 games), to zone blocking...because "system".  When Dennison realized his idiocy was gonna cost him his job? Presto, we start running more power plays(last 6 games).

The players we had, both individually and as a group, were not the best fit  for zone. Zone is about getting to a spot first, then using that spot + body position to create holes, thus it emphasizes quickness and flexibility(like wrestling). Power is about being assigned a target, or two, lining up on them, and then: destroy, which emphasizes size and strength(like heavyweight boxing). ALL O lineman need minimums in all 4 characteristics I mentioned to make an NFL squad. It's the emphasis the scheme places on each characteristic, that makes one guy "better" than the next. Thus, a bunch of guys who are above average in all 4, but, are really big and strong(like we had 2 years ago), means you do power: every play you seek and destroy. "Coaching" that ignores their strengths and focuses on what they are only average at, for the sake of a scheme? Folly.

 

Which kind of run concept do the Bills favor today, right now? No one has any idea. Therefore, we can't know if our players today are a better fit than the players last year. The only thing we do know: Dennison is gone and so are his silly notions about forcing players into his system, rather than forcing his system to fit the players(or making a new system entirely).

 

For all we know, the players we have today, right now, fit a zone scheme better than power. See the problem? 

 

 

In theory, your conclusion is right on ... but except for Bodine and the rookie Teller, who have the Bills added who wasn't on the team last season?   Ducasse, who simply hasn't been starter quality at any time in his 8 or 9 year career, appears to be the only guy who fit Dennison's zone scheme.   The question is only partly whether Daboll is smarter than Dennison, but assuming that he is, is there any realistic hope that the 2018 OL can be even as good as the 2017 version given the drop in talent level since the Bills have essentially replaced three above average OLers with below average starters/backup players?

[Alphadawg7]

Reality is the offense probably will be worse this year, at least in total points scored...BUT the changes made weren’t about this year, they were for the future.

 

TT haters fail to recognize the weapon his legs were.  Our new QBs, need to be quite a bit better than TT as a passer to make up for what he did with his legs.  If they are only slightly better than TT as a passer, then our offense will drop off because our OL is a big question mark right now and they won’t be able to make the plays TT did with his legs.  Not to mention McCoy is older too.

 

I much prefer our 2018 team, but that doesn’t mean it will actually better this year, and it’s ok if it’s not.  We got young QBs, this is about the next 5 to 10 years.  I fully expect and offense heavy offseason and draft next year to give Allen the protection and weapons to succeed.

[BillsfaninSB]

2018.  Bills were 31st in passing. 29th overall.  Can’t get much worse. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Reality is the offense probably will be worse this year, at least in total points scored...BUT the changes made weren’t about this year, they were for the future.

 

TT haters fail to recognize the weapon his legs were.  Our new QBs, need to be quite a bit better than TT as a passer to make up for what he did with his legs.  If they are only slightly better than TT as a passer, then our offense will drop off because our OL is a big question mark right now and they won’t be able to make the plays TT did with his legs.  Not to mention McCoy is older too.

 

I much prefer our 2018 team, but that doesn’t mean it will actually better this year, and it’s ok if it’s not.  We got young QBs, this is about the next 5 to 10 years.  I fully expect and offense heavy offseason and draft next year to give Allen the protection and weapons to succeed.

 

I pretty much agree with this though I would say the trade for Coleman has me in a positive mood this morning. I feel for the first time under McDermott we have a 1,2,3 at wide receiver who are all actual NFL starter level talents. That has me somewhat encouraged. The question is can McCarron or Allen get the ball to them consistently?

[fansince88]

6 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

If Allen is good enough to start, ‘18... otherwise ‘17. Allen should be so much better than Tyrod as a passer that this offense will take steps forward despite weaknesses at OL and receiver. If Zay Jones can take a big leap forward we may even have a “good” offense when paired with Allen. Plus, I’m expecting another step forward for the defense.

 

If McCarron starts I think we’ll be looking at a 7-9 or 6-10 type of season. He is a downgrade from Tyrod. Not a good look for Allen if McCarron starts more than a few games.

 

I don’t even want to entertain the thought of Peterman starting.

NO! Not on Stats. Not in the eye test. Not in passer rating....NO! Tyrod was horrible and left WR standing alone in space. See the reply below. It is hard to not upgrade from 31st out of 32 teams.

3 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

2018.  Bills were 31st in passing. 29th overall.  Can’t get much worse. 

This^^.

Edited August 6, 2018 by fansince88

[CSBill]

6 hours ago, SCBills said:

Projected ‘18:

 

‘17 Dawkins/Incognito/Wood/Ducasse/Mills

’18 Dawkins/Ducasse/Bodine(Groy)/Miller/Mills

 

-Replace Incognito/Wood with Miller/Bodine(Groy)

 

’17 McCoy/Tolbert/Cadet

’18 McCoy/Ivory/Cadet

 

-Replace Tolbert with Ivory

 

’17 DiMarco

’18 DiMarco

 

’17 Clay/O’Leary/Thomas

’18 Clay/O’Leary/Thomas

 

’17 KB/Zay/Thompson/Holmes 

‘18 KB/Coleman/Kerley/Zay

 

-Replace Thompson with Coleman/Kerley

 

’17 Tyrod/Peterman 

‘18 McCarron/Allen (or vice-versa)

 

-Replace Tyrod with AJ or Allen

 

On paper, which offense do you prefer?

 

 

And you forgot what is the most important change from 17 to 18:

 

'17 OC = Dennison

'18 OC = Daboll

 

Moving from the 1980's to a 2018 Generation Z offense will make a huge difference!

[billsredneck1]

5 hours ago, Starr Almighty said:

I'd prefer the line to be Dawkins/Groy/Bodine/Miller/Mills

i think miller's natural spot is lg, where i think he could be a rueben brown for us and i think groy's experience might help cover for mills on the right.

 

either way, ducasse needs to be a backup.

[Rochesterfan]

7 hours ago, SCBills said:

Projected ‘18:

 

‘17 Dawkins/Incognito/Wood/Ducasse/Mills

’18 Dawkins/Ducasse/Bodine(Groy)/Miller/Mills

 

-Replace Incognito/Wood with Miller/Bodine(Groy)

 

’17 McCoy/Tolbert/Cadet

’18 McCoy/Ivory/Cadet

 

-Replace Tolbert with Ivory

 

’17 DiMarco

’18 DiMarco

 

’17 Clay/O’Leary/Thomas

’18 Clay/O’Leary/Thomas

 

’17 KB/Zay/Thompson/Holmes 

‘18 KB/Coleman/Kerley/Zay

 

-Replace Thompson with Coleman/Kerley

 

’17 Tyrod/Peterman 

‘18 McCarron/Allen (or vice-versa)

 

-Replace Tyrod with AJ or Allen

 

On paper, which offense do you prefer?

 

 

 

You missed the biggest change of all:

’17 OC - Dennison - Horizontal/timing passing attack

’18 OC - Daboll - Varied attack week to week - attack multiple levels 

 

To me this is what will make all of the rest of the 2018 starters better.  The attack Daboll wants to run would not work with last years QB and receivers as well.  The change at QB will allow the change at OC to make this a very different and varied offense.

[Captain Murica]

I heard a few local media types stating that Croom can make the team as a 4th team TE. As Daboll uses a lot of TEs in his formations. Joe B stated that Croom is the second best receiving TE on the team. 

 

Just food for thought. Also, they said Groy has replaced Bodine with the 1s. 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Captain Murica said:

I heard a few local media types stating that Croom can make the team as a 4th team TE. As Daboll uses a lot of TEs in his formations. Joe B stated that Croom is the second best receiving TE on the team. 

 

Just food for thought. Also, they said Groy has replaced Bodine with the 1s. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they kept Croom on the active roster.  I've heard he's had some really good practices as well.

 

Groy beating Bodine would make me feel a lot better about this Offensive Line.   I think Miller has some ability and Groy played well when given the chance.  

[BmarvB]

2018. Change in OC will make this unit better

[prissythecat]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I pretty much agree with this though I would say the trade for Coleman has me in a positive mood this morning. I feel for the first time under McDermott we have a 1,2,3 at wide receiver who are all actual NFL starter level talents. That has me somewhat encouraged. The question is can McCarron or Allen get the ball to them consistently?

 

I think you forgot Peterman ;-)   I hear he is in the mix to be starter.

[RyanC883]

I like the 2018 offense MUCH more, at least on paper.  Here is why, in descending order: 

 

1.  New OC.  Even if everything else stayed the same, the new OC will be a vast improvement.  Daboll will have these guys ready and will make more adjustments to opponents week in and out.  

2.  More aggressive scheme.  I expect our QB's to take more chances for big-plays.  This will lessen the "8 in the box" and help the running game.  How smart they are with ball placement will determine if this leads to more INT's or simply more in-completions.  

3.  Healthy Benjamin and Coleman.  This is NOT a bad WR group...on paper.  Let's see what they do on Sunday's.  Add in TE Clay and Kurley, plus depth with our rookies and some vets, and I doubt it is as bad as we believe. 

4.  Running game.  Won't need to ride Shady all day.  A great complement of backups in Cadet, Ivory, etc.  

5.  O-Line.  I'd say this is a wash: Wood was a great character, smart, and tough,  but I'm not sure he was an "all-pro" center.  Above average, without a doubt.  But I think Groy can pickup the slack like he did 2 years ago.  Incognito may have declined this year anyway given his age.  But hopefully Miller can step in and revert to form.  

[C.Biscuit97]

10 hours ago, SCBills said:

Agreed.  

 

I should also add “Replaced Dennison with Daboll”.  

As sad as it is, Dennison has been the better nfl OC.  Daboll has been pretty terrible.  

 

I was never a Tyrod fan but it does blow my mind how people just assume our qbs will definitely be better than him.  Besides a 5 game stretch for AJ on a loaded Bengals team, this guys have proven nothing.  The Bills screwed TT by putting him into a bad offense fit and trading away his best weapon a month before the season.

 

it seems hard to be worse than last year’s offense. But the one thing they did well was take care of the ball.  And for all his faults, TT was a big part of the run game.

[RyanC883]

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Reality is the offense probably will be worse this year, at least in total points scored...BUT the changes made weren’t about this year, they were for the future.

 

TT haters fail to recognize the weapon his legs were.  Our new QBs, need to be quite a bit better than TT as a passer to make up for what he did with his legs.  If they are only slightly better than TT as a passer, then our offense will drop off because our OL is a big question mark right now and they won’t be able to make the plays TT did with his legs.  Not to mention McCoy is older too.

 

I much prefer our 2018 team, but that doesn’t mean it will actually better this year, and it’s ok if it’s not.  We got young QBs, this is about the next 5 to 10 years.  I fully expect and offense heavy offseason and draft next year to give Allen the protection and weapons to succeed.

 

I see your point.  I think our QB's have the ability to mitigate the pressure and hang in the pocket more than TT.   TT was one read and run.   Your overall conclusion is spot-on: the GM is building a sustained winner that can win now and the future.  Plus these guys will likely all be back next year.   I think we go pass-rush and offense (RB--2nd or 3rd round) in next years draft. 

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

As sad as it is, Dennison has been the better nfl OC.  Daboll has been pretty terrible.  

 

I was never a Tyrod fan but it does blow my mind how people just assume our qbs will definitely be better than him.  Besides a 5 game stretch for AJ on a loaded Bengals team, this guys have proven nothing.  The Bills screwed TT by putting him into a bad offense fit and trading away his best weapon a month before the season.

  

 it seems hard to be worse than last year’s offense. But the one thing they did well was take care of the ball.  And for all his faults, TT was a big part of the run game.

 

It will be interesting to see how TT does with more weapons this year.    Oddly, one of them (Coleman) is now on the Bills! 

[Shaw66]

Thanks for the rundown of probably starting lineup vs last season, but I'm not too interested.   What matters much more is Daboll vs. Dennison.  

 

The NFL is about coaching.   Whether McCarron or Allen will be better than Taylor depends on Daboll.  

 

Dennison clearly didn't have it, and I'm hoping Daboll does.   We'll know in a couple of months. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I see your point.  I think our QB's have the ability to mitigate the pressure and hang in the pocket more than TT.   TT was one read and run.   Your overall conclusion is spot-on: the GM is building a sustained winner that can win now and the future.  Plus these guys will likely all be back next year.   I think we go pass-rush and offense (RB--2nd or 3rd round) in next years draft. 

 

It will be interesting to see how TT does with more weapons this year.    Oddly, one of them (Coleman) is now on the Bills! 

It will be interesting to see.  I think Landry is going to have a major drop off in catches but ypc should go up.  The key will be if Gordon is there because he fits TT to a tee.  The Coleman trade doesn’t seem to make sense to me because he’s another guy that fits TT pretty well.

 

i has mixed feelings on Baker but if Tyrod struggles, he is stepping into a good situation. 

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks for the rundown of probably starting lineup vs last season, but I'm not too interested.   What matters much more is Daboll vs. Dennison.  

 

The NFL is about coaching.   Whether McCarron or Allen will be better than Taylor depends on Daboll.  

 

Dennison clearly didn't have it, and I'm hoping Daboll does.   We'll know in a couple of months. 

I was far from a Dennison fan but it seems a little BS to put all of last year’s failings in him.  Hiring a WCO and putting Tyrod into that offense was stupid.  The Bills then traded away their best wr and replaced him with Jordan Matthews.

 

RD sucked but our offensive player evaluation sucked as well.  Hopefully, they are starting to make the right choices.  It all really comes down to Allen.

[eball]

I still think the biggest key to the Bills' 2018 offense is moving from Dennison to Daboll.

[Trogdor]

6 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

I like the 2018 offense MUCH more, at least on paper.  Here is why, in descending order: 

 

1.  New OC.  Even if everything else stayed the same, the new OC will be a vast improvement.  Daboll will have these guys ready and will make more adjustments to opponents week in and out.  

2.  More aggressive scheme.  I expect our QB's to take more chances for big-plays.  This will lessen the "8 in the box" and help the running game.  How smart they are with ball placement will determine if this leads to more INT's or simply more in-completions.  

3.  Healthy Benjamin and Coleman.  This is NOT a bad WR group...on paper.  Let's see what they do on Sunday's.  Add in TE Clay and Kurley, plus depth with our rookies and some vets, and I doubt it is as bad as we believe. 

4.  Running game.  Won't need to ride Shady all day.  A great complement of backups in Cadet, Ivory, etc.  

5.  O-Line.  I'd say this is a wash: Wood was a great character, smart, and tough,  but I'm not sure he was an "all-pro" center.  Above average, without a doubt.  But I think Groy can pickup the slack like he did 2 years ago.  Incognito may have declined this year anyway given his age.  But hopefully Miller can step in and revert to form.  

1. There is nothing in his past that point to him being an effective NFL OC. He was terrible at his previous stops. I hope it's better here. 

2. I'm all for more passing to give Shady some room.

3. A lot of this hinges on them finding the consistency that has eluded them up to this point. 

4. Cadet needs to stay healthy and improve some, but Ivory isn't much of if any improvement over Tolbert. That's sad, but it's the same case of an aging bruiser with declining YPC. 

5. You might be the only person to say the O-line is a wash. Bodine and Newhouse have been pretty terrible at their positions and probably won't add much. Meanwhile, we lost the strongest part of our line. 

[Captain Murica]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they kept Croom on the active roster.  I've heard he's had some really good practices as well.

 

Groy beating Bodine would make me feel a lot better about this Offensive Line.   I think Miller has some ability and Groy played well when given the chance.  

 

 

Yup, he is big and fast. He's a converted WR, so, it'll probably take time for him to adjust to blocking as a TE. 

[Ramza86]

I dont feel good about it at all.

 

I think Mccoy is the only player that can transcend its other members weaknesses. Line cant block...Shady can make a few people miss. 

 

The other groups i dont see the same. WRs cant get separation and help the QB. The QB cant help the WRs. Benjamin might, but i gotta see it and hes gotta be healthy. The line probably wont do the QB any favors in the pocket. Dont see Mccarron or Peterman bailing out the offensive line if they cant block.

 

Everyone really has to do their jobs for this offense to see any kind of success. 

[Kwai San]

8 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Reality is the offense probably will be worse this year, at least in total points scored...BUT the changes made weren’t about this year, they were for the future.

 

TT haters fail to recognize the weapon his legs were.  Our new QBs, need to be quite a bit better than TT as a passer to make up for what he did with his legs.  If they are only slightly better than TT as a passer, then our offense will drop off because our OL is a big question mark right now and they won’t be able to make the plays TT did with his legs.  Not to mention McCoy is older too.

 

I much prefer our 2018 team, but that doesn’t mean it will actually better this year, and it’s ok if it’s not.  We got young QBs, this is about the next 5 to 10 years.  I fully expect and offense heavy offseason and draft next year to give Allen the protection and weapons to succeed.

 

TT's legs - sheesh louise!  TT's legs didn't mean jack diddly squat in the 4th quarter when the Bills were down by less than 7 in a potentially winnable game.  TT's legs didn't garner enough points to win more games for the Bills when it counted most.  TT's legs didn't do jack diddly squat in the ONLY playoff game that we squeaked into and certainly didn't squeak in due to TT's legs.

 

Enough already about TT and whatever intangible he supposedly had - yes at times, and they were few, he was exciting.  Exciting doesn't win games.  Exciting causes heartburn and anguish when you realize exciting isn't going to get it done.  Face it - 4th qtr, 2 mins left, you KNEW in your heart of hearts TT was NOT going to get it done.  TT is gone - build a bridge and go over it and become a Browns fan and continue to worship your guy.  Browns fans will rue the day they acquired TT.  Rue.  The.  Day.

[Shaw66]

23 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It will be interesting to see.  I think Landry is going to have a major drop off in catches but ypc should go up.  The key will be if Gordon is there because he fits TT to a tee.  The Coleman trade doesn’t seem to make sense to me because he’s another guy that fits TT pretty well.

 

i has mixed feelings on Baker but if Tyrod struggles, he is stepping into a good situation. 

I was far from a Dennison fan but it seems a little BS to put all of last year’s failings in him.  Hiring a WCO and putting Tyrod into that offense was stupid.  The Bills then traded away their best wr and replaced him with Jordan Matthews.

 

RD sucked but our offensive player evaluation sucked as well.  Hopefully, they are starting to make the right choices.  It all really comes down to Allen.

Other than QB, the roster talent doesn't mean that much.   If Daboll is good, McCarron will be fine.   A well-executed, good offensive scheme with McCarron at QB throwing to the Bills' receivers can be very effective.   Allen could be a Hall of Fame QB, but if Daboll is no better than Dennison, the Bills offense is going nowhere.  

 

The Bills traded away their best wide receiver?   Yes, I guess they did, but he didn't play all that well with his new team, and now he's on his third team in less than a year.   

 

It simply isn't about talent on the field as much as most people think.   That's because all the teams have more or less the same level of talent.  

 

Other than the QB, it's about the coaches.  

[Happy]

10 hours ago, SCBills said:

Agreed.  

 

I should also add “Replaced Dennison with Daboll”.  

 

This stands to be the most significant change.  Agree with the posters that stated coaching matters, and I think more so than too many give credence to.  It will be interesting to see how Daboll uses what he has right now as that should dictate what is upgraded/replaced next off-season.

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Other than QB, the roster talent doesn't mean that much.   If Daboll is good, McCarron will be fine.   A well-executed, good offensive scheme with McCarron at QB throwing to the Bills' receivers can be very effective.   Allen could be a Hall of Fame QB, but if Daboll is no better than Dennison, the Bills offense is going nowhere.  

 

The Bills traded away their best wide receiver?   Yes, I guess they did, but he didn't play all that well with his new team, and now he's on his third team in less than a year.   

 

It simply isn't about talent on the field as much as most people think.   That's because all the teams have more or less the same level of talent.  

 

Other than the QB, it's about the coaches.  

Not to get in this whole can of worms but Sammy was huge part of what opened things up for Gurley and the other wrs.  It blows my mind that some fans can’t even realize what a big threat in your passing game Does for the rest of your offense.  He also had 8 tds, more than all Bills wrs combined, and a really good offense coach just paid him a lot of money.  He also had very good chemistry with Tyrod when healthy.  

 

And while I agree coaching does matter, especially with a young qb, Daboll’s nfl resume is actually worse than Dennison’s.  I think too often we blame the coaches for the players’ failings. Last year’s offense group sucked talent wise and on paper, this year’s group isn’t that much better/ if at all.  The obvious wildcard is if Allen is a franchise qb.

5 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

This stands to be the most significant change.  Agree with the posters that stated coaching matters, and I think more so than too many give credence to.  It will be interesting to see how Daboll uses what he has right now as that should dictate what is upgraded/replaced next off-season.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/DennRi0.htm

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/DaboBr0.htm

 

[Paul Costa]

11 hours ago, RPbillsfan said:

The 2018 is much better

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