Nate Peterman 2017 All-22 Analysis by BR

[Kirby Jackson]

I’m one of the last people to defend Peterman. I think that he sucks. With that being said, do we really need an All-22 to pile on? He was atrocious last year. All accounts say that he’s improved. Let’s see what happens...

[Rocky Landing]

5 hours ago, fergie's ire said:

I think the point is that as a QB prospect he is simultaneously dead and alive.

Hmm. Kinda feel like we've already opened up that box... 

[Lfod]

3 hours ago, Steptide said:

I don't think him starting is that far fetched either. If McCarron isn't good and Allen isn't ready, Peterman is our best hope. I've said it before, and as ridiculous as it may sound, Peterman is the most nfl proven qb we have on our roster. 

Nathan Peterman might of been showing something behind the scenes before they decided to start him. I at least myself believe it played a role. That is why I don't count him out. 

 

Very much like Tyrod, if you have a guy that has special qualities it will intrigue you some to want to know if it works if you give it some time to grow. 

 

The problem is that 5 interception game is the label he must live with. Until he proves different he has an uphill battle to change perceptions. He might develop himself and become better. 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Lfod

[transplantbillsfan]

5 hours ago, Lfod said:

 What the team has at QB is some potential, a hope and dream. You got a vet that's been a back up. You got a rookie that crashed on the first test run. You have a high draft pick that hasn't been NFL tested yet. 

 

I'm thinking it doesn't matter who gets the start because I'm thinking there will be struggles regulardless. You have a new OC and system. You have Shady Mcoy. 

 

I am open minded, but I don't think it's all going to be put together and working by the first game. So I hope one of the QBs can come in and start overcoming the hurdles. 

 

I think McDermott can surprise because he is a detailed guy. So I'm not writing anything off. I'm hoping Daboll is a wizard and not a huckster. 

 

 

All we've had for the last 2 decades at QB is some potential... this offseason we've just invested a lot more in that potential than we ever have. And I'm not just talking about money.

 

Dabol is about as critical an acquisition this offseason as our investment in the QB position was because investing in Dabol is telling him he's responsible for developing our youth at the position; yes a little of Peterman but a lot of Allen.

 

I hope Dabol is a wizard, too, or closer to that than a huckster... if he is, I think we have really good reason to be excited about the 2018 season, no matter who starts at QB.

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, Steptide said:

I don't think him starting is that far fetched either. If McCarron isn't good and Allen isn't ready, Peterman is our best hope. I've said it before, and as ridiculous as it may sound, Peterman is the most nfl proven qb we have on our roster.

 

It sounds ridiculous because it is ridiculous.

 

AJ McCarron is the most NFL proven QB, by far.

 

Obviously.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Steptide said:

I don't think him starting is that far fetched either. If McCarron isn't good and Allen isn't ready, Peterman is our best hope. I've said it before, and as ridiculous as it may sound, Peterman is the most nfl proven qb we have on our roster. 

 

Proven not to be good. 

[Boca BIlls]

4 hours ago, Augie said:

 

ME?

 

I thought I was pretty much under the radar! 

 

We have no clue at this point....but we have so much time to ponder. It’s that time of year, but it seems tougher when it’s thw QB that is the big question mark. 

Josh Allen is really the only QB that matters. If any of the others start then it means we have a real problem at QB and will be looking for a new one sooner than later.

[Coach Tuesday]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Was I wrong?

 

You're not wrong, Walter, you're just...

[billsbackto81]

This place is gonna go bat guano crazy if Peterman is the starter come season opener. It's too bad the kid couldn't come along slowly like the tail end of a blowout or maybe against a lesser team. Starting against San Diego for a debut was questionable and was considered insulting by many of their players with a healthy Tyrod available. DiMarco and Mills didn't do him any favors either. I don't think he's anywhere near as bad as the SD game but don't think he's franchise material either. Hopefully he can be the Reich to Allen's Kelly.

[Mr. WEO]

15 hours ago, dickleyjones said:

Schrodinger's QB, eh?

 

so peterman is an example of why quantum mechanics is ridiculous? i don't get it.

 

This cat is dead...

[JohnC]

7 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m one of the last people to defend Peterman. I think that he sucks. With that being said, do we really need an All-22 to pile on? He was atrocious last year. All accounts say that he’s improved. Let’s see what happens...

You are an inspiring example that no one is irredeemable. ?

 

There will be more than enough material to evaluate Peterman when camp and the preseason starts. Those hardened critics who are looking back to last year when judging him this year are not only being foolish but also being silly. In my mind Peterman is not a starting caliber qb in this league. That is not to say that it is inconceivable that he earns a starting job for the short term. He reminds me of Frank Reich. There is a role for him on this team.  

[Captain Hindsight]

13 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

..so what were your realistic expectations for a 5th round pick anyway?.....just curious.......

What does it matter what realistic expectations are? 

 

I expect NFL players to perform at a competent NFL level. Last season Peterman failed to do that.

[Big Turk]

15 hours ago, Dadonkadonk said:

He has a JV arm.  End of story.  

 

Arm strength can be and usually is improved quite a bit through weight training their first year or two.

[prissythecat]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

 

Arm strength can be and usually is improved quite a bit through weight training their first year or two.

 

 

I 'm sure Nate can easily make his  biceps, triceps, delts, etc bigger by spending time in the weight room.  But what does that have to do with how much zip he has in his throws?  That's a mechanics problem .   Why do non physical specimens like Ryan Mallet or Jay Cutler have canon arms, while a gym rat like  Brady Quinn have pop guns?     Its not because of time in the weight room... 

Edited June 29, 2018 by prissythecat

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

 

I 'm sure Nate can easily make his  biceps, triceps, delts, etc bigger by spending time in the weight room.  But what does that have to do with how much zip he has in his throws?  That's a mechanics problem .   Why do non physical specimens like Ryan Mallet or Jay Cutler have canon arms?     Its not because of time in the weight room... 

 

Nah, you just clearly dont understand how arm strength is generated then.

 

[prissythecat]

 

 

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

 

Nah, you just clearly dont understand how arm strength is generated then.

 

Please do enlighten us then.  This should be entertaining

[Tenhigh]

[BuffaloMatt]

17 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

..so what were your realistic expectations for a 5th round pick anyway?.....just curious.......

I thought you said "I was ok Spider". 

[Big Turk]

59 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

 

Please do enlighten us then.  This should be entertaining

It wont be entertaining it will be scientific.

 

The main way is by building core strength/lower body strength. It has little to nothing to do with the arm. The amount of torque and force generated by your lower body far exceeds anything you could come close to producing with just your arm alone or even with your upper body. Muscles in the legs, glutes and core produce far more force when utilized properly than any muscle group in the upper body.

 

But that doesn't start at the hips it starts at the foot level and travels up the posterior chain, to the hips where the kinetic energy gets transferred into a "whiplike" motion when you properly torque your hips. This is the basis for all power with any throws.

 

Increase the strength of the posterior chain, the flexibility and strength of the hip flexors and all the little muscles in that area that relate to torquing your hips with more force and you increase your "arm strength" by orders of magnitude.

 

You aren't even in the same area code with your thinking as you are referring to upper body work which will give negligible results to improving arm strength.

 

Watch Tom Brady throw...he is the master of the hip torque throw...in fact he has gotten so good at this he can at times simply torque his hips by just shifting his weight without even taking a step and generate sufficient force to throw a ball on a rope 20 yards down field. Try doing that with just arm strength.

 

And it doesnt take a genius to know that most people can improve their lower body strength. Just go to any gym and count the percentage of guys with reasonably proportioned lower bodies in relation to their upper bodies. Its under 5%. Considering that most QBs do little to no weight work in college and there is tons of room to improve.

 

And this doesnt even get into the actual technique of how to do this properly which is paid attention to at a much closer level in the NFL than in college.

Edited June 29, 2018 by matter2003

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Not saying Peterman compares in any way, but I believe Unitas got cut before he landed in Baltimore.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

It wont be entertaining it will be scientific.

 

The main way is by building core strength/lower body strength. It has little to nothing to do with the arm. The amount of torque and force generated by your lower body far exceeds anything you could come close to producing with just your arm alone or even with your upper body. Muscles in the legs, glutes and core produce far more force when utilized properly than any muscle group in the upper body.

 

But that doesn't start at the hips it starts at the foot level and travels up the posterior chain, to the hips where the kinetic energy gets transferred into a "whiplike" motion when you properly torque your hips. This is the basis for all power with any throws.

 

Increase the strength of the posterior chain, the flexibility and strength of the hip flexors and all the little muscles in that area that relate to torquing your hips with more force and you increase your "arm strength" by orders of magnitude.

 

You aren't even in the same area code with your thinking as you are referring to upper body work which will give negligible results to improving arm strength.

 

Watch Tom Brady throw...he is the master of the hip torque throw...in fact he has gotten so good at this he can at times simply torque his hips by just shifting his weight without even taking a step and generate sufficient force to throw a ball on a rope 20 yards down field. Try doing that with just arm strength.

 

And it doesnt take a genius to know that most people can improve their lower body strength. Just go to any gym and count the percentage of guys with reasonably proportioned lower bodies in relation to their upper bodies. Its under 5%. Considering that most QBs do little to no weight work in college and there is tons of room to improve.

 

And this doesnt even get into the actual technique of how to do this properly which is paid attention to at a much closer level in the NFL than in college.

 

This is a great post. Not sure how Bills fans of all people can argue that ball velocity can't be developed. The poster child for that has terrorized our division for nearly 20 years... Peterman will never have Josh Allen arm strength, but he can absolutely get to the minimum threshold for an NFL QB if he works at it. It isn't his fault Dennison rushed him into the starting role before he had ample time to develop.

[Big Turk]

29 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is a great post. Not sure how Bills fans of all people can argue that ball velocity can't be developed. The poster child for that has terrorized our division for nearly 20 years... Peterman will never have Josh Allen arm strength, but he can absolutely get to the minimum threshold for an NFL QB if he works at it. It isn't his fault Dennison rushed him into the starting role before he had ample time to develop.

 

Yup...Brady had "arm strength" questions coming out of college as well...

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Arm strength can be and usually is improved quite a bit through weight training their first year or two.

Our GM disagrees with you.

Quote

Joe B: What's tougher to teach in your opinion... or, what's tougher to learn in the NFL: arm strength, or accuracy?

Brandon Beane: You know, you love arm strength. You can't teach arm strength. You can probably improve it a little bit...

Joe B: ...Like Aaron Rodgers improved in Green Bay with that.

Brandon Beane: Exactly. You can definitely do things from flexibility in all sorts of things that baseball pitchers do, and, we'll obviously always look at things like that. But, the accuracy is very important. You know, the guys are not as open in the pros as they are in college, and so, it will show if you've got a guy that's inaccurate from the pocket.

link

[Royale with Cheese]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

Nah, you just clearly dont understand how arm strength is generated then.

 

 

Arm strength can be improved a little but generally a whole lot.  

40 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Our GM disagrees with you.

link

 

I agree with Beane and I believe its pretty the consensus with the NFL community.

2 hours ago, matter2003 said:

It wont be entertaining it will be scientific.

 

The main way is by building core strength/lower body strength. It has little to nothing to do with the arm. The amount of torque and force generated by your lower body far exceeds anything you could come close to producing with just your arm alone or even with your upper body. Muscles in the legs, glutes and core produce far more force when utilized properly than any muscle group in the upper body.

 

But that doesn't start at the hips it starts at the foot level and travels up the posterior chain, to the hips where the kinetic energy gets transferred into a "whiplike" motion when you properly torque your hips. This is the basis for all power with any throws.

 

Increase the strength of the posterior chain, the flexibility and strength of the hip flexors and all the little muscles in that area that relate to torquing your hips with more force and you increase your "arm strength" by orders of magnitude.

 

You aren't even in the same area code with your thinking as you are referring to upper body work which will give negligible results to improving arm strength.

 

Watch Tom Brady throw...he is the master of the hip torque throw...in fact he has gotten so good at this he can at times simply torque his hips by just shifting his weight without even taking a step and generate sufficient force to throw a ball on a rope 20 yards down field. Try doing that with just arm strength.

 

And it doesnt take a genius to know that most people can improve their lower body strength. Just go to any gym and count the percentage of guys with reasonably proportioned lower bodies in relation to their upper bodies. Its under 5%. Considering that most QBs do little to no weight work in college and there is tons of room to improve.

 

And this doesnt even get into the actual technique of how to do this properly which is paid attention to at a much closer level in the NFL than in college.

 

That is not true at all.

[LABILLBACKER]

I don't need no stinking analytics. I don't need an all 22 or some 22 or no 22. Nate Peterman passes the eye test as a very good and serviceable backup to Josh for many years. Not going to over think this.

Edited June 29, 2018 by LABILLBACKER
spelling

[Big Turk]

30 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Arm strength can be improved a little but generally a whole lot.  

 

I agree with Beane and I believe its pretty the consensus with the NFL community.

 

That is not true at all.

Yes it is. Thats been said by multiple scouts.

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, matter2003 said:

Yes it is. Thats been said by multiple scouts.

 

I've know about 15-17 people that went on to play college football at the QB position and all of them told me that weight training at the college level is insanely hard.

I've seen videos of college QB weight training.  I've worked out with college QB's because I was a collegiate athlete myself.  

You can look at the build of college QB's and can easily tell who lifts and who doesn't.  

 

It's not the same heavy lifting you'd see from a skilled position player or a guy that plays the front 7 but many, if not most, are lifting.  Especially core and leg workouts.

 

Brandon Beane was also a scout, he said you can only improve arm strength a little.  You say it can be improved a lot.  Beane's wrong, you're right?

 

[Big Turk]

41 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I've know about 15-17 people that went on to play college football at the QB position and all of them told me that weight training at the college level is insanely hard.

I've seen videos of college QB weight training.  I've worked out with college QB's because I was a collegiate athlete myself.  

You can look at the build of college QB's and can easily tell who lifts and who doesn't.  

 

It's not the same heavy lifting you'd see from a skilled position player or a guy that plays the front 7 but many, if not most, are lifting.  Especially core and leg workouts.

 

Brandon Beane was also a scout, he said you can only improve arm strength a little.  You say it can be improved a lot.  Beane's wrong, you're right?

 

 

Well I think our definitions of a "lot" might be different. If you think you are going to take a guy with a below average arm and turn him into Dan Marino that isn't happening. But you can most definitely take a below average arm and turn him into an average to slightly above average arm.

 

Its like anything. At some point your natural ability determines how high you can go. What I am talking about is merely getting as close to your ceiling as possible.

 

Adding 5 mph to your throws is well within the possibility for a lot of players

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Well I think our definitions of a "lot" might be different. If you think you are going to take a guy with a below average arm and turn him into Dan Marino that isn't happening. But you can most definitely take a below average arm and turn him into an average to slightly above average arm.

 

Its like anything. At some point your natural ability determines how high you can go. What I am talking about is merely getting as close to your ceiling as possible.

 

Adding 5 mph to your throws is well within the possibility for a lot of players

 

I can agree with this.

[Go-Bills]

21 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

That might be true. But he is also dumb as dirt under pressure.

i disagree if you look at the interceptions and break them down he made the right choice, each receiver had beat their man but no time to throw.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM7m_iuhIuA

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

Well I think our definitions of a "lot" might be different. If you think you are going to take a guy with a below average arm and turn him into Dan Marino that isn't happening. But you can most definitely take a below average arm and turn him into an average to slightly above average arm.

 

Its like anything. At some point your natural ability determines how high you can go. What I am talking about is merely getting as close to your ceiling as possible.

 

Adding 5 mph to your throws is well within the possibility for a lot of players

 

So the question is... how below average was Peterman's arm?

 

I just really thought his arm was too weak last summer. When NFL defenders see throws like these--

 

It looks like the NFL QB version of this--

3 hours ago, Go-Bills said:

i disagree if you look at the interceptions and break them down he made the right choice, each receiver had beat their man but no time to throw.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM7m_iuhIuA

 

Or there wasn't enough velocity on the ball to get to the WR rather than the defender.

[BigDingus]

17 hours ago, matter2003 said:

It wont be entertaining it will be scientific.

 

The main way is by building core strength/lower body strength. It has little to nothing to do with the arm. The amount of torque and force generated by your lower body far exceeds anything you could come close to producing with just your arm alone or even with your upper body. Muscles in the legs, glutes and core produce far more force when utilized properly than any muscle group in the upper body.

 

But that doesn't start at the hips it starts at the foot level and travels up the posterior chain, to the hips where the kinetic energy gets transferred into a "whiplike" motion when you properly torque your hips. This is the basis for all power with any throws.

 

Increase the strength of the posterior chain, the flexibility and strength of the hip flexors and all the little muscles in that area that relate to torquing your hips with more force and you increase your "arm strength" by orders of magnitude.

 

You aren't even in the same area code with your thinking as you are referring to upper body work which will give negligible results to improving arm strength.

 

Watch Tom Brady throw...he is the master of the hip torque throw...in fact he has gotten so good at this he can at times simply torque his hips by just shifting his weight without even taking a step and generate sufficient force to throw a ball on a rope 20 yards down field. Try doing that with just arm strength.

 

And it doesnt take a genius to know that most people can improve their lower body strength. Just go to any gym and count the percentage of guys with reasonably proportioned lower bodies in relation to their upper bodies. Its under 5%. Considering that most QBs do little to no weight work in college and there is tons of room to improve.

 

And this doesnt even get into the actual technique of how to do this properly which is paid attention to at a much closer level in the NFL than in college.

 

Notice the crickets since you posted this?

He's nowhere to be found lol. Props to you, good post!

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

15 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I don't need no stinking analytics. I don't need an all 22 or some 22 or no 22. Nate Peterman passes the eye test as a very good and serviceable backup to Josh for many years. Not going to over think this.

 ?? 

 

This is the most likely event.  

 

AJ McCarron is most likely here 1 or 2 if Allen is legit.    

 

If Nate has improved and he can come in if needed and play like he did in the Saints debacle he’ll be fine. 

 

[Freddie's Dead]

On 6/28/2018 at 4:16 PM, dickleyjones said:

Schrodinger's QB, eh?

 

so peterman is an example of why quantum mechanics is ridiculous? i don't get it.

 

Pickerman can either exist or not.  We can also apply the "observer effect", which in Pickerman's case means that the simple act of observing him makes him suck more.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 6/29/2018 at 8:09 AM, Captain Hindsight said:

What does it matter what realistic expectations are? 

 

I expect NFL players to perform at a competent NFL level. Last season Peterman failed to do that.

 

...had to been an exhaustive amount of ruminating on his extensive body of work to reach that conclusion......

[HappyDays]

14 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

So the question is... how below average was Peterman's arm?

 

This spreadsheet tracks all the ball velocity measurements since 2008:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_-SienfT3umX0HKxRyQqyXM9BqHrotdcQA6W-V_pDiY/htmlview?usp=drive_web&usp=sheets_home&ths=true&sle=true#

 

Traditionally you want to be 55 MPH or above. Peterman was at 53 MPH. Although I'll point out a few QBs that had under 55 MPH and have never been questioned on arm strength:

 

Dak Prescott - 54

Deshaun Watson - 49

Tyrod Taylor - 50

 

Even if you're a staunch believer in 55 and up, that means you think Peterman needs to increase his ball velocity by 2 MPH to be a starting NFL QB. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that that can be done.

[Jay_Fixit]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This spreadsheet tracks all the ball velocity measurements since 2008:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_-SienfT3umX0HKxRyQqyXM9BqHrotdcQA6W-V_pDiY/htmlview?usp=drive_web&usp=sheets_home&ths=true&sle=true#

 

Traditionally you want to be 55 MPH or above. Peterman was at 53 MPH. Although I'll point out a few QBs that had under 55 MPH and have never been questioned on arm strength:

 

Dak Prescott - 54

Deshaun Watson - 49

Tyrod Taylor - 50

 

Even if you're a staunch believer in 55 and up, that means you think Peterman needs to increase his ball velocity by 2 MPH to be a starting NFL QB. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that that can be done.

I’d love to know what Dan McGwire’s was in Tecmo Super Bowl. I’d say between 9-13 MPH.

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This spreadsheet tracks all the ball velocity measurements since 2008:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_-SienfT3umX0HKxRyQqyXM9BqHrotdcQA6W-V_pDiY/htmlview?usp=drive_web&usp=sheets_home&ths=true&sle=true#

 

Traditionally you want to be 55 MPH or above. Peterman was at 53 MPH. Although I'll point out a few QBs that had under 55 MPH and have never been questioned on arm strength:

 

Dak Prescott - 54

Deshaun Watson - 49

Tyrod Taylor - 50

 

Even if you're a staunch believer in 55 and up, that means you think Peterman needs to increase his ball velocity by 2 MPH to be a starting NFL QB. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that that can be done.

 

I thought I read that Peterman's was 51 after being revised upwards?  If it's 53, improving a couple MPH should be doable.

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I thought I read that Peterman's was 51 after being revised upwards?  If it's 53, improving a couple MPH should be doable.

 

Now I'm confused because this article says he threw 49 MPH:

 

http://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-NFL-Combine-2008-2017/10243/dh/

 

And other articles are evenly split between saying he threw 53 or 49. So now I'm not sure what his velocity was at the combine. Weird.

[major]

Peterman is our jar jar binks at TBD