Wayne Arnold Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 10 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said: No I'm not. I like Allen as a 1st round prospect. I like drafting QB's because no one knows. No one is perfect when evaluating QB's. I wouldn't have taken Allen over Rosen. I definitely wouldn't have traded up for Allen. But Allen is well worth a 1st round pick, I just don't see a franchise QB you hand over the franchise to year 1. He has tools to develop. I worry about his ability to process quickly. I don't like QB's that struggle to make quick decisions on film. I've fallen for QB's that look the part like Jimmy Clausen and been totally wrong. What I have yet to see is a QB that struggles to make quick decisions succeed in the NFL without being a great running QB. Can you provide evidence of Allen not processing information quickly? I don't think that's true at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 29 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: Can you provide evidence of Allen not processing information quickly? I don't think that's true at all. I'm not sure what you want? You can see it watching him in games. I hate making excuses for QB's. QB gets the credit and the blame for a reason. Was his OL good? No. Were his WR's good? No. Did Allen struggle with anticipation and timing? Yes. So there's the problem. You have maybe the most physically gifted QB prospect ever, but you have to ignore the bad because of the surrounding cast. That makes me nervous. That's why I liked Allen as a 1st round QB to develop slowly, not as a franchise QB prospect you trade into the top 10 for. It's funny because AJ McCarron is the complete opposite. Weak arm, not much of an athlete, but showed good timing and anticipation in college. He had maybe the best supporting cast in college football. We just have to wait and see. No one knows what will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 15 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said: Doesn't answer the question, says everything. Allen is a tremendous physical talent that can retain a great deal of information, but he can't process the game within the 2.5 seconds between snap to throw. Yes, believe the coach. The coaches actions speak load and clear. He had a potential top 10 QB in his 3rd year and was afraid to throw the football. There's been plenty of times where he "processed the game within 2.5 seconds". So because you claim they were "afraid" to throw the ball, that makes it true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 11 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: I'm not sure what you want? You can see it watching him in games. I hate making excuses for QB's. QB gets the credit and the blame for a reason. Was his OL good? No. Were his WR's good? No. Did Allen struggle with anticipation and timing? Yes. So there's the problem. You have maybe the most physically gifted QB prospect ever, but you have to ignore the bad because of the surrounding cast. That makes me nervous. That's why I liked Allen as a 1st round QB to develop slowly, not as a franchise QB prospect you trade into the top 10 for. It's funny because AJ McCarron is the complete opposite. Weak arm, not much of an athlete, but showed good timing and anticipation in college. He had maybe the best supporting cast in college football. We just have to wait and see. No one knows what will happen. I've been watching all of Allen's games very closely. I don't see him struggle with anticipation and timing like you say he does. Was he late on some throws? Yes. Could he improve his progression speed? Sure. But that goes for every quarterback in history coming out of college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 (edited) What are the Buffalo Bills getting in Josh Allen? An advanced look into Josh Allen's strengths and weaknesses, all the while tackling the myths and truths of some of the accepted schools of thought about Allen as an NFL prospect. What does Allen need to work on? No. 1 - Finding his inner Derek Zoolander No. 2 - More consistent footwork No. 3 - Mental processing No. 4 - Seeing ghosts What makes Allen such a dynamic prospect? No. 1 - Arm strength, of course No. 2 - Anticipatory throws No. 3 - Strength and balance through contact No. 4 - A legitimate running threat Edited May 8, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Buffalo Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 I was just posting this, I guess at the same time as you... good read I thought. I appreciated his look at the accuracy hot topic- Quote Drops and offensive line breakdowns are going to happen, of course, but the important message here is that when Allen had the time or tried to make things happen, he was well over the vaunted 60-percent completion mark on those throws. He did exhibit signs of being more accurate than originally portrayed, but at the same time, he has some things he absolutely must correct. Many of them are related, which show signs of promise for a team — and we'll get into those shortly. However, it was first important to display that there is more to Josh Allen than a simple stat of a percentage that supposedly represents accuracy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Seriously? Multiple Threads Guidance 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, One Buffalo said: I was just posting this, I guess at the same time as you... good read I thought. I appreciated his look at the accuracy hot topic- I agree. In-depth piece by Joe B and a worthwhile read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Juggernaut Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Seriously? Right in the first sentence............. " On April 28, 2018, the Buffalo Bills did something that has never been done before in franchise history. For the first time ever, the Bills selected a quarterback in the Top 10 of an NFL Draft when they made Wyoming's Josh Allen the seventh overall pick in 2018" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Billieve Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 How would this not qualify as: Draft Round 1 Pick 7: Josh Allen thread ----- "Josh Allen Game Film" or "Josh Allen Analytics" or "Josh Allen OC Interview" are likely to be considered sufficiently different to separate, even though in practice discussion within the threads will tend to coalesce on the same handful of points and may get merged later on. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Fantastic insight from jordan palmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Excellent write up, with plenty of examples. Pretty much coincides with everything I've been saying about Allen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Billieve Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 It seems like those of you who are linking multiple thread guidance didn't bother to read it. Not only does this seem to fit the criteria given for a new thread, he also explains best procedure should you think the thread is redundant, and it doesn't include talking about it in thread. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Steve Billieve said: How would this not qualify as: Draft Round 1 Pick 7: Josh Allen thread ----- "Josh Allen Game Film" or "Josh Allen Analytics" or "Josh Allen OC Interview" are likely to be considered sufficiently different to separate, even though in practice discussion within the threads will tend to coalesce on the same handful of points and may get merged later on. 1 minute ago, Steve Billieve said: It seems like those of you who are linking multiple thread guidance didn't bother to read it. Not only does this seem to fit the criteria given for a new thread, he also explains best procedure should you think the thread is redundant, and it doesn't include talking about it in thread. Those complaining are doing so because it's me as the OP. Check their posting history and it's nakedly transparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 On 4/30/2018 at 1:53 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: Color me surprised that Palmer enthuses about the 2 QB draft prospects who are paying him to live in a beach house with him and play catch (OK, there's more to it than that but...). Look, it's nice to hear him gush about our guy, but it has to be seen in the context of a sculptor enthusing for his creation. The reason that a lot of folks aren't pointing out the impact Palmer has had on Allen's game yet is....he hasn't had one yet. Thank you. But that footwork.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Good overview. He's a rookie with strengths and weaknesses and needs experience. Pretty much like every young guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 On 4/30/2018 at 6:10 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: To be truthful, if I were Darnold and his client just as much, I'd be kinda pissed except that Darnold went #3 overall and got the big payday and is supposedly tight with Allen after their 3 months as beach-house buddies, so maybe it's "all good" He doesn’t have to sell Darnold as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Billieve Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Yea i know. Can't help pointing out that their evidence runs exactly counter the point they're trying to make. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Jordan Palmer said the exact same things about Chrisitian Hackenberg 2 years ago, and he's been terrible as a pro football player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: Jordan Palmer said the exact same things about Chrisitian Hackenberg 2 years ago, and he's been terrible as a pro football player. The raw talent difference between Allen and Hackenburg aren't even remotely close, And you know that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Just now, JerseyBills said: The raw talent difference between Allen and Hackenburg aren't even remotely close, And you know that.. Allen has a bigger arm, otherwise they're essentially the same guy. Same size and same mobility. Both have good intangibles off the field. Allen is a bit thicker. Jordan Palmer said Hackenberg could fix his accuracy in the lead up to the 2016 draft, but he hasn't and will likely be out of the NFL by the end of the summer. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Really cool breakdown. I hadn't picked up on his tendency to open his hips on the throws to the left sideline before so that was pretty cool to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeane Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 31 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: What are the Buffalo Bills getting in Josh Allen? An advanced look into Josh Allen's strengths and weaknesses, all the while tackling the myths and truths of some of the accepted schools of thought about Allen as an NFL prospect. Great read... Thanks for posting! Doesn't really change my thoughts either way, but still always great to see more information and reporters actually doing their homework for a good story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 The Buffalo Bills are getting a guy with a howitzer attached to his arm...or so I've read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Buffalo Bills depth chart: Josh Allen begins as No. 3 QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 (edited) I find it interesting that when Josh has had coaching he seems to improve. A good example is that his one year at Reedly Community College he had a 49% Completion Percentage http://www.cccaasports.org/sports/fball/2014-15/players/joshuaallen0oal At Wyoming, he had the infamous 56% completion percentage -- supposedly a big jump in talent but he seemed to adjust well and with a real QB coach improved. I honestly think his success in the NFL will be up to three factors: 1) the kind of QB technical expertise (footwork, anticipation throws, read and react) the Bills give him and what he contracts for on his own (Jordan Palmer) 2) the system Daboll builds around him 3) His own work ethic Josh seems to be a better block of clay than any that has come down the NFL pike in a while...how he is molded will be the key and Josh himself has a strong hand in his development. It will be exciting to watch if it goes well. There will be rough patches -- a ton of them (like the 5 interception game against Nebraska in 16)--but I am willing to give him a couple of years to (one on the bench/one on the field) to figure it out. Edited May 8, 2018 by JoeF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 You can break down things so many ways. Only time will tell. I do not like the adjustment for drops or this or that. You would have to make those adjustments to every other QB's throws as well. And the logic of talent level - yes his team was less talented but they also played against less talent. Lets see what this guy does when he gets to camp, when he plays some snaps against NFL talent. Until then its anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 I largely agree with many of Joe B's take. I've been saying 0ver and over that the completion percentage is not truly indicative of his accuracy and that his arm strength along with his size, strength and athletic ability coupled with his elite eacapability traits and the fact that he tends to look for the homerun throw truly makes him a unique prospect. He is not a boom bust project, his floor is much higher than what we often hear from some quarters. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 i wonder who was charting the drops for wyoming because those drops do not come close to what was said during the pre-draft period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 5-8: Wyoming OC Brent Vigen on One Bills Live (15:53) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 It really sounds like Raw is a catch phrase that pundits have used in lack of knowing anything real about him. He is the most experienced QB under center coming out of college. J Palmer and K Cousins have both got the impression that he understands pro concepts. I think the real thing to watch will be how he responds to a high level of talent on both sides of the ball. He has a calm confidence to him. With the arm and mobility I don't understand why he draws comparisons to Big Been. To me, I see another Panthers QB. He reminds me of Cam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 With respect to the OP- it doesn’t. The only thing that will prove flaws can be overcome is this kid playing nfl games at nfl speed with nfl competition. Anything is possible. And it is entirely possible that Allen has a gold jacket career. His arm may be historically strong in the NFL. I’m hopeful, mostly because it’s a choice to hope for the best. but reading into these incremental snapshots prior to the season are fools gold. We’ve heard it all so many times. You hear about mechanics being fixed in shorts at the local high school all the time- but under live action it all breaks down. Remember when Ej ‘fixed’ his issues one off season with a QB guru? we won’t know, until we know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRush Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Steve Billieve said: How would this not qualify as: Draft Round 1 Pick 7: Josh Allen thread ----- "Josh Allen Game Film" or "Josh Allen Analytics" or "Josh Allen OC Interview" are likely to be considered sufficiently different to separate, even though in practice discussion within the threads will tend to coalesce on the same handful of points and may get merged later on. Because this was a great article that would otherwise be buried among sub threads. Leave this on its own thread Edited May 8, 2018 by BuffaloRush 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 58 minutes ago, Steve Billieve said: How would this not qualify as: Draft Round 1 Pick 7: Josh Allen thread ----- "Josh Allen Game Film" or "Josh Allen Analytics" or "Josh Allen OC Interview" are likely to be considered sufficiently different to separate, even though in practice discussion within the threads will tend to coalesce on the same handful of points and may get merged later on. If I can offer counter-argument: I hate mile long threads. Sometimes a thread about the same topic can offer a nuance, like this breakdown of Allen by Joe B. I'd rather see more fresher, shorter threads, than one enormous all-encompassing one. Just now, BuffaloRush said: Because this was a great article that would otherwise be buried among sub threads. Leave this on its own thread 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Every other Allen thread has digressed into irrelevance. This one hasn't, can we leave it alone? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 45 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Buffalo Bills depth chart: Josh Allen begins as No. 3 QB Third on the depth chart in May? You think hell even make the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said: What are the Buffalo Bills getting in Josh Allen? An advanced look into Josh Allen's strengths and weaknesses, all the while tackling the myths and truths of some of the accepted schools of thought about Allen as an NFL prospect. What does Allen need to work on? No. 1 - Finding his inner Derek Zoolander No. 2 - More consistent footwork No. 3 - Mental processing No. 4 - Seeing ghosts What makes Allen such a dynamic prospect? No. 1 - Arm strength, of course No. 2 - Anticipatory throws No. 3 - Strength and balance through contact No. 4 - A legitimate running threat Zoolander ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said: Zoolander ?? Read the article to understand the context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 53 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Buffalo Bills depth chart: Josh Allen begins as No. 3 QB As he should. He's a rookie, AJ and NP are not. He'll have every opportunity to move up the chart in camp and preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltonWaddams Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 22 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said: Doesn't answer the question, says everything. Allen is a tremendous physical talent that can retain a great deal of information, but he can't process the game within the 2.5 seconds between snap to throw. Yes, believe the coach. The coaches actions speak load and clear. He had a potential top 10 QB in his 3rd year and was afraid to throw the football. Huh?! Sounds like he was afraid to run it too. Under 120 yards a game is pretty pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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