Start Allen from Day 1/ QB competition

[BuffaloMatt]

Great way to ruin a prospect.

[Rocky Landing]

7 minutes ago, BBillsWestCoast said:

NO  WAY   IN   HELL         WILL  HE  START  DAY 1 !

 

I implore the Bills to sit him until we have a deep threat WR and a solid Offensive line. Teams will Blitz this kid ALL DAY!

 

David Carr YEAR 1

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
2002	23	HOU	QB	8	16	16	4-12-0	233	444	52.5	2592	9	2.0	15	3.4	81	5.8	4.7	11.1	162.0	62.8		76	411	4.19	3.24	14.6	2	3	5

Allen already does a lot of scrambling, right? A trait for which Tyrod was often mocked on this site. IMO, a rookie starting too early is a great way to learn bad habits. But, if we don't fix our O-line, Allen may very well turn into a running QB, and have a lot of trouble fixing all the mechanics that every pundit has pointed out- footwork, accuracy, etc.

[brianb386]

1 hour ago, Laughing Coffin said:

You expect wrong, no way is mayfield starting over Tyrod.  Darnold might start for the Jets.  

Wanting allen to start day 1 is asinine and irresponsible.

 

sit him a year, next offseason and draft get offense early and often to build around him

I agree 100%. Allen himself is not ready to start early and our offensive talent is not at a level that gives him a good chance of success. I say we let Mccarron show if he is worth trading next year and let Allen sit and learn.

[Putin]

25 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

That's the one thing he's used to. Getting pressure immediately. His OL was godawful. 

Yes but one thing that we can all agree on is the level of competition  ( defense) he will be facing is something that he will have to learn to digest (  quickly) he can not always rely on his athleticism to ascape the pocket like he did in AA division school , 

[BBillsWestCoast]

2 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Allen already does a lot of scrambling, right? A trait for which Tyrod was often mocked on this site. IMO, a rookie starting too early is a great way to learn bad habits. But, if we don't fix our O-line, Allen may very well turn into a running QB, and have a lot of trouble fixing all the mechanics that every pundit has pointed out- footwork, accuracy, etc.

 

I am right with you. Better that he watches the mistakes or masterful plays that AJM deals with initially. Play the kid at the end of the season.

 

Week 17: vs. Miami Dolphins, 1 p.m. Sunday, Dec. 30 at home in the snow and play to his strengths. Then in 2019 give him weapons and a power running game!

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, Putin said:

Yes but one thing that we can all agree on is the level of competition  ( defense) he will be facing is something that he will have to learn to digest (  quickly) he can not always rely on his athleticism to ascape the pocket like he did in AA division school , 

 

Heck yeah.  MIN and LAC defense's are a little different than Air Force/Utah State.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

The best option should win the job.  

 

And if its it’s the rookie then Beane screwed up signing AJ. 

[Putin]

14 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

They need to start him when HE is ready. After his footwork has been corrected, after he has a firm knowledge of the playbook, after he has developed chemistry with his receivers and when the O line play is stable. That is when he will have the best chance for success.

I don’t know how anyone can disagree with ^

[Kelly the Dog]

13 minutes ago, Putin said:

Yes but one thing that we can all agree on is the level of competition  ( defense) he will be facing is something that he will have to learn to digest (  quickly) he can not always rely on his athleticism to ascape the pocket like he did in AA division school , 

Yes, but we are not going to ask him to drop back in the pocket, look off coverage, go through three reads and then make a great decision. We are going to have him hand off a lot, throw easy passes, do play action and throw downfield to his first read so the defense must play off the ball and honest. 

[Bakin]

My guess is it will be an open camp. 

And so it should be. 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

23 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

They need to start him when HE is ready. After his footwork has been corrected, after he has a firm knowledge of the playbook, after he has developed chemistry with his receivers and when the O line play is stable. That is when he will have the best chance for success.

You're never going to know when he is ready. There are zero simulations on earth that replicate a regular season NFL game. There is NOTHING you can do in practice that will prepare him for the defenses he will be seeing under live bullets. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Kelly the Dog

[Lurker]

57 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

That's the one thing he's used to. Getting pressure immediately. His OL was godawful. 

 

It's also why his footwork is so bad.   Running for his life, he seldom got to work on his mechanics...

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBud420 said:

I expect Cleveland, NY Jets to do the same with their guys. There is going to be growing pains, no matter if you start him now or a year from now. You need in game experience. These guys are top ten picks and you draft someone that high to play.

 

Peyton Manning, John Elway, Steve Young (who sat behind Montana to "develop"), Troy Aikman, Andrew Luck, etc. All had bad first years, if it goes that way for Allen it's no big deal.

 

McCarron and Peterman are not good enough to not throw Allen out there right away.

If he’s clearly better than AJ, then I agree.  The only thing that worries me is that our OL will do to him what they did to Peterman.  One start and a horrific performance by the OL and Peterman had of the the worst performances ever by any qb.  I could see allen having a similar experience. Our OL is worse than last year and our WRs still suck.  Starting him from day one could be the worst decision this franchise makes IF the supporting cast fails him

[Putin]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

You're never going to know when he is ready. There is zero simulations on earth that replicate a regular season NFL game. There is NOTHING you can do in practice that will prepare him for the defenses he will be seeing under live bullets. 

So I guess this whole notion of Developing a QB is just a myth? 

 

[Rocky Landing]

10 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

You're never going to know when he is ready. There are zero simulations on earth that replicate a regular season NFL game. There is NOTHING you can do in practice that will prepare him for the defenses he will be seeing under live bullets. 

Well, there's preseason...

[Bobby Hooks]

16 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

You're never going to know when he is ready. There are zero simulations on earth that replicate a regular season NFL game. There is NOTHING you can do in practice that will prepare him for the defenses he will be seeing under live bullets. 

Practice against our D is the exact thing that’s will start to prepare him for the speed of the game. 

 

 So your plan is to throw him to the wolves with a shoddy oline. That’ll teach ‘em. Nothing like a good concussion or two to get him moving!

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

3 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Well, there's preseason...

Preseason is 3/4 speed. Preseason is where fans get the misguided madman theory that guys like Nathan Peterman can play. It's slightly better than practice but nothing whatsoever like a real game. And the stuff it doesn't show, like disguising defenses, and the real speed of the game is precisely the things that separates good and bad quarterbacks. 

 

8 minutes ago, Putin said:

So I guess this whole notion of Developing a QB is just a myth? 

 

Developing quartbacks can happen while they are playing. 

[BB2004]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBud420 said:

I expect Cleveland, NY Jets to do the same with their guys. There is going to be growing pains, no matter if you start him now or a year from now. You need in game experience. These guys are top ten picks and you draft someone that high to play.

 

Peyton Manning, John Elway, Steve Young (who sat behind Montana to "develop"), Troy Aikman, Andrew Luck, etc. All had bad first years, if it goes that way for Allen it's no big deal.

 

McCarron and Peterman are not good enough to not throw Allen out there right away.

 He has to earn it and compete from day 1 in order to start week 1 at Baltimore. No way would I throw him into start from day 1.  That would be foolish.

[FearLess Price]

20 minutes ago, NewEra said:

If he’s clearly better than AJ, then I agree.  The only thing that worries me is that our OL will do to him what they did to Peterman.  One start and a horrific performance by the OL and Peterman had of the the worst performances ever by any qb.  I could see allen having a similar experience. Our OL is worse than last year and our WRs still suck.  Starting him from day one could be the worst decision this franchise makes IF the supporting cast fails him

 

I agree with you in theory. The difference is Allen can make the throws that NP tried that got him picked the 2nd and 3rd times. He has the arm strength for it. I also wouldnt start the kid week 1 unless he blew away the competition and learned the playbook in and out, which is rare, but possible. We do not have the best supporting cast but either did Wentz his 1st season. Wentz is more polished than Allen but they are very comparable.

8 minutes ago, BB2004 said:

 He has to earn it and compete from day 1 in order to start week 1 at Baltimore. No way would I throw him into start from day 1.  That would be foolish.

 

Right. Gotta earn it. Its the only way to earn the respect of the locker room.

[Mat68]

Im an Allen believer, but my philosophy is you play a rookie Qb when he is your best option.  Whenever he is the best Qb you play him.  I think that will be very early on but I dont see any value in handing a rookie Qb a starting job in the NFL.  It never works.  The cream always rises.  Once the team sees a difference and know he is the guy it goes much easier traditionally.  

Edited April 29, 2018 by Mat68

[SouthNYfan]

1 hour ago, JMF2006 said:

I hope its a fair 3 way competition.

 

No one should be handed the job.

 

Did they bring in another QB other than Josh and aj?

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, FearLess Price said:

 

I agree with you in theory. The difference is Allen can make the throws that NP tried that got him picked the 2nd and 3rd times. He has the arm strength for it. I also wouldnt start the kid week 1 unless he blew away the competition and learned the playbook in and out, which is rare, but possible. We do not have the best supporting cast but either did Wentz his 1st season. Wentz is more polished than Allen but they are very comparable.

 

Right. Gotta earn it. Its the only way to earn the respect of the locker room.

I hope we don’t just pretend we have Carson wentz. We don’t have his OL.  I think some are underestimating one of two things.  1:  how much impact the OL has on a QB, especially a rookie.  2: how bad our OL is at the moment.  

 

Developing Allen correctly is way more important than the 2018 season.  He can be developed better as the starter but can also be ruined if the OL is complete garbage.

[xxxxxxxx]

Why not play him at lb, in addition to special teams? What could go wrong?

Edited April 29, 2018 by MURPHD6

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBud420 said:

I expect Cleveland, NY Jets to do the same with their guys. There is going to be growing pains, no matter if you start him now or a year from now. You need in game experience. These guys are top ten picks and you draft someone that high to play.

 

Peyton Manning, John Elway, Steve Young (who sat behind Montana to "develop"), Troy Aikman, Andrew Luck, etc. All had bad first years, if it goes that way for Allen it's no big deal.

 

McCarron and Peterman are not good enough to not throw Allen out there right away.

 

Weren't you down on the Allen pick? I guess watching him flounder would give you some satisfaction.

 

I also think your argument of "well, everyone else does it" not compelling.

[ColoradoBills]

22 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Did they bring in another QB other than Josh and aj?

 

Peterman baby!.  It's an open competition.  If Nate has a better preseason stat line he get's the nod for Baltimore.

[Doc Brown]

Throw in a 21 year old rookie who needs to make major improvements to his game behind a suspect/inexperienced offensive line to throw to arguably the worst WR core in the league.  I wonder what David Carr thinks of that idea?

[klos63]

2 hours ago, joevan said:

Start the best player at each position.  Make each player earn their place on the team

that's pretty much how it should be.

2 hours ago, Laughing Coffin said:

5-6 wins would be good for the franchise, we can get a top WR or OL prospect (also we love/night still need CB and Greedy Williams out of LSU is going to be great) round 1 and draft our future RB round 2/3

how would 5-6 win be good for the franchise? We won 9 last season, added quite a bit to our defense this offseason. Defense could be very good. It's possible AJ or Allen will be more effective than Taylor. I don't understand the 5 win season thinking.

[Original Byrd Man]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBud420 said:

I expect Cleveland, NY Jets to do the same with their guys. There is going to be growing pains, no matter if you start him now or a year from now. You need in game experience. These guys are top ten picks and you draft someone that high to play.

 

Peyton Manning, John Elway, Steve Young (who sat behind Montana to "develop"), Troy Aikman, Andrew Luck, etc. All had bad first years, if it goes that way for Allen it's no big deal.

 

McCarron and Peterman are not good enough to not throw Allen out there right away.

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more.  If he was in a more professional style offense I would be more willing, but given the circumstances he needs time to develop.  Also no one really knows what AJ can do so give him some time and see.  If he flops oh well not much invested.  On the other hand if he excels he could provide some value on the market.  

Edited April 29, 2018 by Original Byrd Man

[Playoffs?]

Will be very interesting if AJ somehow comes in and lights it up this year...

[klos63]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

You're never going to know when he is ready. There are zero simulations on earth that replicate a regular season NFL game. There is NOTHING you can do in practice that will prepare him for the defenses he will be seeing under live bullets. 

I don't think that's an accurate statement.

[Kelly the Dog]

9 minutes ago, klos63 said:

I don't think that's an accurate statement.

What I meant was the complexity in real time speed, under a full pass rush. Which is the one thing they all need to learn, and the only way to know if he will be good. You cannot simulate it.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Kelly the Dog

[klos63]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

What I meant was the complexity in real time speed. Which is the one thing they all need to learn, and the only way to know if he will be good. You cannot simulate it.

Yeah, that makes more sense. But practice and studying film does help and is necessary for a QB to get prepared for the defenses he will face live.

[Mark92]

2 hours ago, peterpan said:

Allen should start day one or after game 4.  Any later is scary to me.  

 

You can bet your butt Rosen is starting day 1

You can not compare where Rosen is with his talents right now to where Allen is.  Rosen is clearly the better QB right now.  Allen is so raw right now.  He's like a a pitcher that has a 102 MPH fastball but can't strike anyone out.  Once he learns how to do it watch out!   I really like the Allen pick and I think the debate to sit him or start him is foolish at this point.  Let's see how this summer goes first.  

[Where’sLloyd]

If he wins the battle at camp then he starts.  Unfortunately he may pull that off due to weak competition more than anything else.  I imagine McCarron was brought in to mentor and anything more is a bonus, I just wish he had done a little more in this league so far.

 

I know the QB's from 04-05 had the pedigree, but one thing I feel gets overlooked is that Eli was behind Kurt Warner, Rivers behind Brees, Rodgers behind Favre and even Big Ben was behind Tommy Maddox I think who had played a lot in the league.  3 of 4 HoF, I wish we had something close to help this huge investment that is Josh Allen.  He may be the best of the 3 come September, but I think it would be best for him (and us) to wait.

[nucci]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBud420 said:

I expect Cleveland, NY Jets to do the same with their guys. There is going to be growing pains, no matter if you start him now or a year from now. You need in game experience. These guys are top ten picks and you draft someone that high to play.

 

Peyton Manning, John Elway, Steve Young (who sat behind Montana to "develop"), Troy Aikman, Andrew Luck, etc. All had bad first years, if it goes that way for Allen it's no big deal.

 

McCarron and Peterman are not good enough to not throw Allen out there right away.

Goff sat for a while until they thought he was ready...working ok so far...there are a lot of veterans from last years playoff team with no intention of taking a "step back". When coached feel Allen is ready he will play

[formerlyofCtown]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBud420 said:

I expect Cleveland, NY Jets to do the same with their guys. There is going to be growing pains, no matter if you start him now or a year from now. You need in game experience. These guys are top ten picks and you draft someone that high to play.

 

Peyton Manning, John Elway, Steve Young (who sat behind Montana to "develop"), Troy Aikman, Andrew Luck, etc. All had bad first years, if it goes that way for Allen it's no big deal.

 

McCarron and Peterman are not good enough to not throw Allen out there right away.

In case you missed it, starting is not a birth-right on this team.  He will have to compete.

[hemma]

Need to get the OL straightened out before they throw him in against Bosa (week 6) or we could see a rerun, with the typical fan reaction to follow.

 

 

[SouthNYfan]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Throw in a 21 year old rookie who needs to make major improvements to his game behind a suspect/inexperienced offensive line to throw to arguably the worst WR core in the league.  I wonder what David Carr thinks of that idea?

 

I still can't believe he's Derek's older brother.

 

[formerlyofCtown]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's going to be a Real Interesting QB room they got goin' on in Cleveland.

Real Interesting.

I would love to be a fly on that wallpaper.

 

So what is the analysis on Allen?

1) sky high physical gifts

2) spotty accuracy, said to be due to spotty footwork

3) spotty decison making under strong pressue

 

Doesn't sound to me like a guy who should start Day 1, not if you want to have a prayer of getting any footwork changes engrained into his muscle memory

3-makes spectacular throws while on the run after being pressured.

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBud420 said:

I expect Cleveland, NY Jets to do the same with their guys. There is going to be growing pains, no matter if you start him now or a year from now. You need in game experience. These guys are top ten picks and you draft someone that high to play.

 

Peyton Manning, John Elway, Steve Young (who sat behind Montana to "develop"), Troy Aikman, Andrew Luck, etc. All had bad first years, if it goes that way for Allen it's no big deal.

 

McCarron and Peterman are not good enough to not throw Allen out there right away.

Nope

needs Coaching. and Bills do not need to rush him in. Plenty of areas need to get sorted this season.

Lets not ruin another one please