Start Allen from Day 1/ QB competition

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

True. But AJ is a good guy, a good leader, will work his ass off, will do well in the film room, and make good decisions and throws against air and the defense running half speed. McD will love all of that.

 

He will most certainly.  I hope he defers to Daboll and Culley in that regard. 

[ColoradoBills]

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 2:22 PM, Mark92 said:

You can not compare where Rosen is with his talents right now to where Allen is.  Rosen is clearly the better QB right now.  Allen is so raw right now.  He's like a a pitcher that has a 102 MPH fastball but can't strike anyone out.  Once he learns how to do it watch out!   I really like the Allen pick and I think the debate to sit him or start him is foolish at this point.  Let's see how this summer goes first.  

 

I like your analogy.  I would add that he needs to develop an "off speed" pitch too.

Learning how to work a batter is also needed.

[3rdand12]

10 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Just because a player starts off bad and has crappy stats versus sitting doesnt at all mean it was a mistake. Experience, especially for an NFL quarterback, is an invaluable asset. 

Experience has many levels. From College to starting for a NFL is NOT the best method these days.

Need to get so much under his belt or and Hat so quickly team have to dumb it down.

 

Timing with the O line. Timing with receivers needs more attention than it can get in such a quick offseason with everyone new for the rook.

Be patient is being wise imho

9 hours ago, FearLess Price said:

 

 

That's right and the schedule is brutal early this year.  We prob wont see him on the field until the last 5 games barring massive injuries. Its a good thing we kept our 1st next year cuz chances are its ginna be a top 10 pick. Well prob grab an edge rusher.

Buy next year, with the Bills Cap situation , they should be looking at FA , filling weaknesses and maybe adding some star power.

Draft should really be BPA next year theoretically if the program is working

[Kirby Jackson]

24 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

That’s my point, IMO he isn’t close and won’t be able to bridge the gap to even be a legitimate 2 by Sept.

Certainly not without a real QB coach.

Uhhh, have you guys seen our O Line?

 

I don’t disagree at all. I have said that I think Josh Allen needs a whole year. It doesn’t sound that Beane is in agreement with that. They are trying to push him onto the field. 

[Georgia Bill]

The issue with starting a guy too soon is, if he has a horrible few games, the haters will come out and tear him (and the decision to draft him) to shreds.  That easily could happen when a kid from the country and a small school all of a sudden finds himself in the big city NFL media glare.  I think that can screw with a guy's confidence, and mess up his game, at least for a while.  And frankly, I don't see too many on this board having much patience before they start circling like sharks.  It might be best for him to ease into this with some playing time, but not carrying the burden of the starter for a while.  Also, frankly, we might be pleasantly surprised with what AJ can do for us in the interim.

[Mark92]

I think years 3 and 4 for McDermott are going to be huge.  We load up on free agents after this coming 2nd year,  Allen becomes starter in year 3 and we are rolling in year 4.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I like to parlay the over to the over for a hundred

 

You lack faith

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, prissythecat said:

 

 

Usually such bold predictions don't go turn out very well.     It would be great though if Allen did so well in TC and pre-season such that he was named the starter on day 1.  I just don't see it happening .

+1.  Beane has stated that if Allen wins in TC/PS then he will be the starter.  However, he also stated that McAaron and Peterman are already ahead of the curve due to the off season program.  So the pressure is on Allen to learn the play book the next three months to outshine during TC/PS.   And I pray to god that the Bills don't hit the same issue as with Losman, when he was knocked out for the year with the broken leg..I think that severely reduced Losman's ability to learn through the first season.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

Funny I was told you don’t do that (bring up your own threads) 

1 hour ago, Bill_with_it said:

No doubt with thought intriguing conerse that you bring to it. You could really easily walk away yet you choose to derail the thread with discourse that is contrary to civility. Nevertheless you have the option to exit. You arent hand cuffed to the thread guy.

If you upset him enough he will stop posting in a thread you create. 

 

I try  and try to give him credit and time and again he starts 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Could you imagine if somehow Peterman won the job lol

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Could you imagine if somehow Peterman won the job lol

I am a completely twisted person, I make my living using my imagination, and the answer is no.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Could you imagine if somehow Peterman won the job lol

May the Farce be with you.  

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

I am a completely twisted person, I make my living using my imagination, and the answer is no.

It was a joke. (I think) 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

5 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

May the Farce be with you.  

It was a joke. (I think) 

I don’t expect it to happen but who knows. None of the 3 are amazing. You never know 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Bill_with_it said:

Just so we are all on the same sheet, Beane stated today everything is a competition to include the qb. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000930393/article/bills-gm-beane-josh-allen-to-begin-as-no-3-qb%3fnetworkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%3Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%3Dstory&env&pageKeyValues=prtnr%3Daround-the-league;team%3Dbuf;conf%3Dafc;dvsn%3Dace;plyr%3Dderek_carr;plyr%3Draymond_mccarron;plyr%3Dcarson_wentz&p.ct=Around+the+NFL&p.adsm=false&p.tcm=%23fff&p.bgc1m=%230964bf&p.bgc2m=%23053a74&sr=amp

Bills general manager Brandon Beane said Monday on WGR-AM 550 in Buffalo that Allen will begin as the team's No. 3 quarterback behind AJ McCarronand Nathan Peterman, and the trio will compete for starting honors.

 

The plan isnt to sit him for a year at any cost. Beane was very clear in that there will be a qb competition. 

 

 

After last year I would expect the same comment whether the expectation was starting day 1 or a straight red shirt. He wouldn’t event name Tyrod starter over peterman 

[Buffalo Boy]

42 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t disagree at all. I have said that I think Josh Allen needs a whole year. It doesn’t sound that Beane is in agreement with that. They are trying to push him onto the field. 

Losman = Broken Leg as a rookie

EJ = Sprained Knee as a rookie 

I want the third time to be a charm. If he does play, it’s in spot duty with the goal to be throw it away, slide or get out of bounds and don’t be a hero.

27 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Could you imagine if somehow Peterman won the job lol

Only catastrophic injury

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Bill_with_it said:

Just so we are all on the same sheet, Beane stated today everything is a competition to include the qb. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000930393/article/bills-gm-beane-josh-allen-to-begin-as-no-3-qb%3fnetworkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%3Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%3Dstory&env&pageKeyValues=prtnr%3Daround-the-league;team%3Dbuf;conf%3Dafc;dvsn%3Dace;plyr%3Dderek_carr;plyr%3Draymond_mccarron;plyr%3Dcarson_wentz&p.ct=Around+the+NFL&p.adsm=false&p.tcm=%23fff&p.bgc1m=%230964bf&p.bgc2m=%23053a74&sr=amp

Bills general manager Brandon Beane said Monday on WGR-AM 550 in Buffalo that Allen will begin as the team's No. 3 quarterback behind AJ McCarronand Nathan Peterman, and the trio will compete for starting honors.

 

The plan isnt to sit him for a year at any cost. Beane was very clear in that there will be a qb competition. 

 

 

The link above didn't work for me.  I found an interview and this seems to be the relevant quote.  Is there another?

 

Q: With Josh Allen, do you plan to give him a legitimate shot to win the starting job from day one or would you guys kind of prefer to take that pressure off of him and give him some time to develop?

BB: We’re not going to rush him, but if he somehow wins the job then he wins it. There’s other players out there. There will be 52 other players out there and if they see that he’s clearly the best, I don’t think we could do that. We wouldn’t do that at any other position. We’ll let it go, but he’s got a lot of catching up to do. A.J. and Nathan are a long way ahead just getting in here with Brian [Daboll] when the offseason conditioning program started.

[The Frankish Reich]

11 hours ago, Tyrod's friend said:

As regards risk injury ... well, how do you suppose Katherine Webb would respond to that question? We're only exposing certain players to injury? 

I'm not saying you can't learn from sitting, by the way. Rivers, Brees, I guess you could add Favre; none of the started at all as rookies. We can't know whether or not they benefited one iota so it's not argument to make in either direction.

My argument is about "destroying a guy's confidence". I don't buy it, not for a second. Personally, just judging on how Josh Allen reacts to adversity and his overall personality, I think he's MORE than capable of rising above difficulties - perhaps more than any guy I've ever heard. Don't coddle and at some point in this season, let it rip. 

Cheers and welcome sunshine and 60 degrees.

Of course, Bill James would have pointed out all the way back to the 1983 Abstract ... youth triumphs over all in baseball. The capacity to outperform your age is one of the biggest indicators of HoF players in baseball and you just happened to pick out two guys in Acuna and Harper that hit that market to a tee. (Or Mays, Aaron, Mantle, Robinson, Griffey, Rodriguez and on and on). 

Acuna is going to be amazing ... I'm looking forward to seeing him battle two great pitchers in the next two days. Should be fun.




 

Excellent point. In Allen's defense (not that he's old; he's pretty normal age for a rookie QB), there's less to go on here, but I would suggest that they guys who specialize later may also fit that bill. Allen played baseball and certainly wasn't a blue chip prospect until he turned his focus 100% to football. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

44 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I don’t expect it to happen but who knows. None of the 3 are amazing. You never know 

Time will tell and little the armchair coaches/ GM’s say will convince people otherwise.

 

Imo

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Beane was on WGR this morning and I got the opposite impression from him. He said that it isn't fair to call Allen raw, and that the way he's been characterized in the media is wrong. It sounded to me like he thinks Allen will start sooner rather than later. I mean they found the absolute cheapest backup QB they could and supposedly Allen was at the top of their board, so the plan all along has been to draft him and let him compete for the starting spot immediately. Kelly the Dog is exactly right. He will win the #2 spot right away and I would bet he wins the starting role before training camp is done.

We'll if you really listened closely to Beane he said Allen was one of the QBs the Bills liked. If he was your top guy, why say that? My guess Allen was #2.

 

I suppose you can interpret Beane's comments a number of ways. I'm sure they would love Allen to dominate camp and make them start him. But I don't think it will happen, nor should they're be any pressure to start Allen.

 

What I heard was Beane being diplomatic. Of course Allen could start. But he also made it clear Allen is #3 on the depth chart and he is behind AJ and Nate.

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by PromoTheRobot

[Kelly the Dog]

Why anyone would want the Bills to waste any reps or individual instruction on Peterman instead of Allen, any more than they would on an UDFA during mini-camp, training camp, or the preseason is not only beyond me, it's criminally negligent.

[stuvian]

it is worth noting that AJ's experience edge on Allen is only 5 games

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, stuvian said:

it is worth noting that AJ's experience edge on Allen is only 5 games

 

True.  Although years breaking down game film, learning the playbook with NFL coaches, and even running the scout team against NFL defenders playing on "medium low" is said to count in some way.

[MJS]

On 4/29/2018 at 10:44 AM, BuffaloBud420 said:

I expect Cleveland, NY Jets to do the same with their guys. There is going to be growing pains, no matter if you start him now or a year from now. You need in game experience. These guys are top ten picks and you draft someone that high to play.

 

Peyton Manning, John Elway, Steve Young (who sat behind Montana to "develop"), Troy Aikman, Andrew Luck, etc. All had bad first years, if it goes that way for Allen it's no big deal.

 

McCarron and Peterman are not good enough to not throw Allen out there right away.

 

Cleveland is going to start Tyrod. Who knows what the Jets will do?

 

Regardless, those are not two organizations to follow in anything. The Bills need to do what is best for their team and their QB. That might mean sitting for a few games, or the whole year, or that might mean starting right away.

[Bill_with_it]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The link above didn't work for me.  I found an interview and this seems to be the relevant quote.  Is there another?

 

Q: With Josh Allen, do you plan to give him a legitimate shot to win the starting job from day one or would you guys kind of prefer to take that pressure off of him and give him some time to develop?

BB: We’re not going to rush him, but if he somehow wins the job then he wins it. There’s other players out there. There will be 52 other players out there and if they see that he’s clearly the best, I don’t think we could do that. We wouldn’t do that at any other position. We’ll let it go, but he’s got a lot of catching up to do. A.J. and Nathan are a long way ahead just getting in here with Brian [Daboll] when the offseason conditioning program started.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000930393/article/bills-gm-brandon-beane-josh-allen-to-begin-as-third-qb

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Why anyone would want the Bills to waste any reps or individual instruction on Peterman instead of Allen, any more than they would on an UDFA during mini-camp, training camp, or the preseason is not only beyond me, it's criminally negligent.

Because - maybe, just maybe the Bills FO expects the 5th rounder to be the backup for a while.   

 

Yeah, I get it you and many others don't want him here.  As a starter he sucked, as a fill in he wasn't that bad. 

 

Oh, please don't say the playoff game because the Hero to many, TT also had an INT, a RAT of 27.2 and a QBR of 44.2 and led the offense to 3 whole points 

It took 4 horrible games in a row for McDermott to make that bad call to put in Nate.    I do not think he's ready to pull that stunt all too soon.  

 

[Doc]

I can guarantee you that Rosen will not be starting day 1 for the Cards, not with $20M Bradford on the team.  Unless Bradford gets hurt before the season starts, which is very possible.

 

As for Allen, like I've said, with the OL in flux and them needing to develop him, I wouldn't start him until I know the OL is good (enough).

[26CornerBlitz]

12 minutes ago, Doc said:

I can guarantee you that Rosen will not be starting day 1 for the Cards, not with $20M Bradford on the team.  Unless Bradford gets hurt before the season starts, which is very possible.

 

As for Allen, like I've said, with the OL in flux and them needing to develop him, I wouldn't start him until I know the OL is good (enough).

 

I remember when Matt Flynn was signed by the Seahawks with the idea of him being the starter.  That all changed when Russell Wilson showed up and beat him out.  Likely that Bradford starts, but you never know.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

I remember when Matt Flynn was signed by the Seahawks with the idea of him being the starter.  That all changed when Russell Wilson showed up and beat him out.  Likely that Bradford starts, but you never know.

 

Matt Flynn was making nowhere near $20M for the season and wasn't a former 1st overall pick.   

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Matt Flynn was making nowhere near $20M for the season and wasn't a former 1st overall pick.   

 

His status as a former 1st round pick is meaningless at this stage of his career.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Thank you Mods for combining threads 

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

His status as a former 1st round pick is meaningless at this stage of his career.

 

Oh really?  Just how do you think he got at $20M deal?

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Oh really?  Just how do you think he got at $20M deal?

 

Ridiculous overpayment for a team with no QBs on the roster.  Easy answer.

[Lurker]

15 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Matt Flynn was making nowhere near $20M for the season and wasn't a former 1st overall pick.   

 

A maximum of $26 million, with $10 million guaranteed wasn't chump change, either...

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d827af666/article/seahawks-qb-matt-flynn-agree-to-threeyear-26m-contract

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

13 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Ridiculous overpayment for a team with no QBs on the roster.  Easy answer.

Have you given us your well thought out reasoning yet for why AJ will fail?    I asked you politely yesterday to provide one.  (or are you choosing to ignore me?) 

 

Remember Tygod Taylor also signed with the Bills for pennies on the dollar compared to other starting QB's and when he was due Starting QB pay he agreed to an $8 million pay cut.  

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Ridiculous overpayment for a team with no QBs on the roster.  Easy answer.

 

True it was a ridiculous overpayment.  But they did it because he was a former 1st overall pick.

 

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

A maximum of $26 million, with $10 million guaranteed wasn't chump change, either...

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d827af666/article/seahawks-qb-matt-flynn-agree-to-threeyear-26m-contract

 

They ended-up paying him just $8M, spread out over 2 seasons. 

[Lurker]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

They ended-up paying him just $8M, spread out over 2 seasons. 

 

True.   But that wasn't the plan prior to the draft.   They struck gold with Wilson and the rest is history...

[26CornerBlitz]

12 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

A maximum of $26 million, with $10 million guaranteed wasn't chump change, either...

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d827af666/article/seahawks-qb-matt-flynn-agree-to-threeyear-26m-contract

 

Not to mention that was in 2012. 

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

True it was a ridiculous overpayment.  But they did it because he was a former 1st overall pick.

 

 

They ended-up paying him just $8M, spread out over 2 seasons. 

 

So were Manziel and Tebow which shows how germane that is to the decision they made.

[Doc]

27 minutes ago, Lurker said:

True.   But that wasn't the plan prior to the draft.   They struck gold with Wilson and the rest is history...

 

True it wasn't the plan prior to the draft.  But again, it wasn't a large investment on their part and he wasn't considered a long-term solution, so benching him wasn't a big deal.

 

24 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Not to mention that was in 2012. 

 

So were Manziel and Tebow which shows how germane that is to the decision they made.

 

You lost it right there.  They a) were never 1st overall picks, b) never started more than a season's worth of games, and c) haven't been in the league for years.   But I'll take bets on Rosen not starting the season for the Cards, barring injury to Bradford.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, Doc said:

True it wasn't the plan prior to the draft.  But again, it wasn't a large investment on their part and he wasn't considered a long-term solution, so benching him wasn't a big deal.

Sounds a little like Allen and McCarron if you ask me.

[RocCityRoller]

22 hours ago, Epstein's Mother said:

 

I ask this with complete sincerity:  Is there an example that someone can give me of a QB who was highly drafted and whose career was ruined because he played to soon?

Jake Locker

D Carr

Harrington

RG III