Start Allen from Day 1/ QB competition

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

5 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

1-31 lol       

 

 

he'll be benched for the rookie by week 4, or sooner?

[Nihilarian]

Except this team doesn't have a top legit receiver corps or offensive line so starting him in day one is a good way to ruin him and all the QB's on the current roster.

 

Let AJ Mccarron take the heat to see if this line can block and if not let Peterman and McCarron get killed this year. Leave the top rookie on the bench for now unless the coaches pull off a miracle and find a way to protect the QB's. I suspect McCoy will have a difficult time this year too. 

[Bill_with_it]

5 hours ago, #34fan said:

If I'm honest, it just doesn't seem proper for a 1-31 coach to be drawing lines in the sand.

 

I like Hue, but his comfort level is inappropriate given his record..

 

Just think a ton of “highly knowledgeable posters” on this board wanted him leading our team.

[#34fan]

3 hours ago, Bill_with_it said:

Just think a ton of “highly knowledgeable posters” on this board wanted him leading our team.

 

I thought he was a brilliant coordinator... I still do... I just question whether he's HC Material anymore... If he's still ineffective this year, he should pay the price.

Edited May 9, 2018 by #34fan

[billsfan89]

Allen's accuracy issues could further regress if he doesn't develop good footwork. Playing in front of a bad offensive line and constantly being under pressure is a way to develop bad footwork and having a bad first year can ruin a players confidence. There is so much to lose by playing a raw rookie with a bad surrounding cast (Allen's risk of getting hurt is higher behind a bad o-line.) I would give Allen a chance to win the job but unless Allen completely kills it like Russell Wilson or AJ is just that bad I would do my best to not have Allen start. Throw AJ to the wolves this year, keep Allen on the bench unless necessary. 

Edited May 9, 2018 by billsfan89

[Bill_with_it]

17 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

I thought he was a brilliant coordinator... I still do... I just question whether he's HC Material anymore... I he's still ineffective this year, he should pay the price.

I dont think he is anywhere near talented with regard to the way that offense looked last year.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

11 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said:

I dont think he is anywhere near talented with regard to the way that offense looked last year.

FWIW 

I hope the offense is far different and better than las season.  

[BullBuchanan]

I would sooner they start AJ & Peterman this year to decide which to keep moving forward. Then next year they can draft a mid/late round QB and let the 3 of them have at it. 

Edited May 9, 2018 by BullBuchanan

[transplantbillsfan]

11 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

There's been a lot of discussion about Peterman's performance in LA, and how that may, or may not have affected him. That half in which he played has been accurately described as "historically bad football." I have to wonder how that wouldn't affect his confidence going forward? Sure, McD, and Peterman, etc will all talk about how resilient, and "mentally tough" he is. But, if his brain works, the fact that he set a record for bad football will always be there. 

 

Don't start Allen too early. I don't care how "mentally tough" he is. "Trentative" Edwards spent so much time running for his life behind a crappy O-line that he became Captain Checkdown. We've invested a lot in Allen. We should protect that investment.

 

Part of the reason Peterman got absolutely rocked is that he doesn't have an NFL arm and had serious trouble actually making NFL throws even from a clean pocket.

 

Allen has an NFL arm... and then some.

 

And Allen isn't just a statue in the pocket either.

 

I think comparing Allen to Peterman is off base. As for Edwards... call his career simply shook by a single hit from Adrian Wilson.

 

PS... why has the last page or so turned into a Tyrod Taylor discussion? Is he a Buffalo Bill anymore? Who cares that Cleveland's Head Coach is choosing to bench his high 1st round QB for a vet QB... it doesn't mean that's the right move for the Buffalo Bills.

Edited May 9, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[Thurman#1]

On 4/30/2018 at 1:44 AM, BuffaloBud420 said:

I expect Cleveland, NY Jets to do the same with their guys. There is going to be growing pains, no matter if you start him now or a year from now. You need in game experience. These guys are top ten picks and you draft someone that high to play.

 

Peyton Manning, John Elway, Steve Young (who sat behind Montana to "develop"), Troy Aikman, Andrew Luck, etc. All had bad first years, if it goes that way for Allen it's no big deal.

 

McCarron and Peterman are not good enough to not throw Allen out there right away.

 

 

Starting a guy can really help him improve. Or it can help him get worse. It doesn't automatically improve you. There are plenty of ways it can hurt you. People don't seem to get this but it's true.

 

It can ingrain bad habits. It can destroy good habits which are in development but not fully ingrained. It can cause your mechanics to degrade at a time when you can't concentrate on repairing them because as a young starter you're much more focused on specifics of game-to-game preparation and adjustment. It can destroy confidence when you fail at times when a better-prepared QB would have succeeded. Concentrating on the wrong things can make you miss out on what you should be concentrating on. And of course it can result in physical injury.

 

When you're prepared and ready, playing is less likely to cause bad habits, as the good ones are already ingrained. You don't have to focus on basics which would otherwise require thought and take away from your handling of the game's subtleties and refinements.

 

What we need to be working on as our #1 priority this  year isn't winning this year. It's developing a team that in the middle-term future will be consistently good enough to challenge for titles each year. You don't do that by valuing the short-term over the long-term. Beane and McDermott are highly aware of this and have stated that's what they're working on. The single most important thing that will lead to that is getting Allen ready. Not playing him. Getting him ready. Most likely the best way to do that is to spend a year or so learning from the bench.

 

McCarron and Peterman are plenty good enough to not throw Allen out there right away. Because winning this year's games is less important than developing Allen for the long-term. Because McCarron and Peterman could easily be better than you think. And because it's likely better for Allen.

 

It's great that Allen spent time with Jordan Palmer this year. That could easily cut down the development time he needs. But he's still very likely to need a bunch more than many here want to give.

[Teddy KGB]

12 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

he'll be benched for the rookie by week 4, or sooner?

 

Somewhere between week 3 and 9 unless Mayfield gets hurt 

8 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

I would sooner they start AJ & Peterman this year to decide which to keep moving forward. Then next year they can draft a mid/late round QB and let the 3 of them have at it. 

 

Allen or bust.    Unless Peterman is on roids and can throw now.  

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, #34fan said:

If I'm honest, it just doesn't seem proper for a 1-31 coach to be drawing lines in the sand.

 

I like Hue, but his comfort level is inappropriate given his record..

 

 

 

 

With that lineup, 1-31 was not unexpected. The Browns know this better than anyone. That's why Hue is still there.

1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Somewhere between week 3 and 9 unless Mayfield gets hurt 

 

Allen or bust.    Unless Peterman is on roids and can throw now.  

 

 

In that case, bust please.

 

I'll be much happier if we don't see him on the field for any more than token appearances this year.

[Teddy KGB]

21 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

.

 

 

In that case, bust please.

 

I'll be much happier if we don't see him on the field for any more than token appearances this year.

 

Learn more on the field then the sidelines imo.    

 

Cam wasnt ready either some said then he throws up 850 plus yards in his first two games.  

[26CornerBlitz]

NFL Total Access

Which quarterback should start for the Buffalo Bills? (3:33)

Discussion between Kurt Warner, Michael Robinson,  and Jim Mora, Jr.

[26CornerBlitz]

NFL Offseason Amusement! Top 10 Storylines to Follow

We've made through the NFL Scouting Combine, free agency and the draft. As OTAs, mandatory minicamps, training camp and the preseason approach, here are our top 10 offseason storylines to watch.

Which one of Big Five rookie QBs will see extensive action in 2018?

Here's how we'd rank the Big Five in terms of likelihood to be their respective teams' "majority" starter in 2018:

 

1) Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills 
2) Josh Rosen, Arizona Cardinals 
3) Sam Darnold, New York Jets 
4) Baker Mayfield, Cleveland Browns 
5) Lamar Jackson, Baltimore Ravens

 

» Bills general manager Brandon Beane cited knowledge of the offense and overall development as the reason behind Buffalo's decision to place Allen third on the quarterback depth chart behind AJ McCarron and Nathan Peterman. This is a pecking order that can, and very likely will, change fast. The rookie doesn't exactly have to jump Staubach and Favre here.

[eball]

I'll just say this; if McCarron does beat out Allen to start the season I hope it's because McCarron is extremely impressive, and not because Allen looks lost.

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, eball said:

I'll just say this; if McCarron does beat out Allen to start the season I hope it's because McCarron is extremely impressive, and not because Allen looks lost.

 

Have you not heard of Nate Favre? 

[Thurman#1]

19 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Learn more on the field then the sidelines imo.    

 

Cam wasnt ready either some said then he throws up 850 plus yards in his first two games.  

 

 

Yup, you learn more on the field. But some of the things you can learn are really really negative. Look at David Carr. He learned a lot, like how to feel shell-shocked. You can learn to concentrate on the plays and the defense while your mechanics go to hell, for instance.

 

When you're feeling lost out there you're not learning positive things.

 

As for Newton, yeah he had 850 yards in his first two games, but also eight sacks, 3 TDs and 4 INTs, in two losses. And he ground it out for the first four years not ever convincing anyone for sure he'd be a franchise guy until that fifth year. Could he have sped that up by sitting and learning? I don't know. But I know that while Cam had people saying he might well not start, it wasn't nearly as unanimous as the pre-draft word on Allen.

 

More, Cam didn't exactly win the job on great performances. His pre-season totals were 42.1% completions, 1 TD and 0 INTs and 5.3 YPA and a 64.9 QB rating. Derek Anderson was much better for them that preseason.

 

I've said this before, but the three best QBs in the NFL right now are probably Rodgers, Brees and Brady, yeah? All of them started with a year or more on the bench learning the things a QB needs to know from the fundamentals up rather than from the game-plan down, which is what the starter is generally worrying most about.

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Four Reasons Josh Allen Starts in 2018

 

By Nate Geary

 

Now that the draft is over and the roster (for the most part) is set, we can turn our attention to some of the key battles that will play out throughout the summer and into the fall. Obviously, the one position everyone is most concerned about is quarterback.

 

Going into the draft, most experts agreed that Josh Allen was the one quarterback in this draft that shouldn’t ever see the field in 2018. It’s not that he didn’t flash the tools to be a day one starter, rather he needs to refine those tools to become a more consistent version of what a lot of evaluators loved from Allen throughout his college career at Wyoming.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 5/9/2018 at 7:31 AM, Teddy KGB said:

Learn more on the field then the sidelines imo.    

Cam wasnt ready either some said then he throws up 850 plus yards in his first two games.  

 

You have two valid points there.

 

Now let's flip one of them around.  Right from his draft profile on NFL.com: "Footwork is sloppy and accuracy is inconsistent." " Doesn't anticipate receivers getting open, must see them in a window. Inconsistent accuracy due to poor footwork and falling away to avoid a big hit."  Cam has become more consistent, but his completion percentage is still lower than you like and he throws more INTs than you like (I know, I know, other factors go into both those things, but you see it on film). 

 

Maybe, just maybe, if he'd had a chance (and the personality) to sit and focus on his footwork and his ball placement for a while, he'd be a better QB today.

On 5/9/2018 at 8:14 AM, 26CornerBlitz said:

NFL Total Access

Which quarterback should start for the Buffalo Bills? (3:33)

Discussion between Kurt Warner, Michael Robinson,  and Jim Mora, Jr.

 

Actually a pretty balanced discussion, despite the hokey roulette wheel

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

If he wins the starting job in pre season he should be the starter.

[26TrapDraw]

On 4/29/2018 at 9:47 AM, LeGOATski said:

I see the logic in doing so, but there's no rush, IMO.

 

Let's give him some time to study the NFL game, hone his technique...and then throw him out there when we play the best pass defense in the league.

Lol but seriously it begs the question. If he legit wins the job in TC do you trot him out week 1?

[Domdab99]

3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Four Reasons Josh Allen Starts in 2018

 

By Nate Geary

 

Now that the draft is over and the roster (for the most part) is set, we can turn our attention to some of the key battles that will play out throughout the summer and into the fall. Obviously, the one position everyone is most concerned about is quarterback.

 

Going into the draft, most experts agreed that Josh Allen was the one quarterback in this draft that shouldn’t ever see the field in 2018. It’s not that he didn’t flash the tools to be a day one starter, rather he needs to refine those tools to become a more consistent version of what a lot of evaluators loved from Allen throughout his college career at Wyoming.

 

This is a great article and exactly why I think Allen will be the starter. 

[John from Riverside]

I just think if Josh Allen starts everyone should be prepared for a very early draft pick......he is gonna make rookie mistakes and needs a ton of fundamental work.

 

Who knows..that may actually be the plan.  A rebiuld year then high draft pick and a ton of free agency money the next offseason......so glad Beane kept that 2019 first round pick

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[BigDingus]

Don't start Allen from day 1...

The guy is the most raw out of all the "Big 4" rookie QB's, and has the most to learn and get caught up on in regards to NFL speed, playbook, competition, etc.

He also has an awful O-line and WR corps, along with an aging RB who will have even less holes opening for him this coming season.

He'll inevitably get injured, or worse, benched, possibly setting back his confidence and opening him up to endless questions throughout the season about if he's NFL ready or not.

Rather not throw him in that situation unless we have no other options. The Bills only get one chance to do this right. Better safe than sorry.

On 5/9/2018 at 8:14 AM, 26CornerBlitz said:

NFL Total Access

Which quarterback should start for the Buffalo Bills? (3:33)

Discussion between Kurt Warner, Michael Robinson,  and Jim Mora, Jr.

 

Thanks for that. Interesting listen.

I find it intriguing as well. You could make an argument for any one of them, although the Peterman one is a little far-fetched. But hey, you never know what could happen in OTA's, training camp, pre-season, etc. and if he somehow gets the call as starter, I'll be cautiously optimistic the coaching staff saw something in him that gives them confidence. 

[26CornerBlitz]

8 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

Don't start Allen from day 1...

The guy is the most raw out of all the "Big 4" rookie QB's, and has the most to learn and get caught up on in regards to NFL speed, playbook, competition, etc.

He also has an awful O-line and WR corps, along with an aging RB who will have even less holes opening for him this coming season.

He'll inevitably get injured, or worse, benched, possibly setting back his confidence and opening him up to endless questions throughout the season about if he's NFL ready or not.

Rather not throw him in that situation unless we have no other options. The Bills only get one chance to do this right. Better safe than sorry.

 

Thanks for that. Interesting listen.

I find it intriguing as well. You could make an argument for any one of them, although the Peterman one is a little far-fetched. But hey, you never know what could happen in OTA's, training camp, pre-season, etc. and if he somehow gets the call as starter, I'll be cautiously optimistic the coaching staff saw something in him that gives them confidence. 

 

The only two that seem sensible to me are McCarron and Allen.

[Boca BIlls]

Start him day one, you can only really get a feel for the NFL if you actually play. He will get everything else during TC, the only thing that will be left is to start week .

Edited May 10, 2018 by Boca BIlls

[TigerJ]

I disagree.  You can find instances where both strategies (start your raw promising rookie QB or let him sit and learn) have worked, and instances where both have failed.  I think McCarron (and Peterman) may be bettern than you give them credit for, and that Allen, who as always had to be the big fish in a little pond will benefit from a little time on the bench to solidify the mechanics he's trying to learn and not have to feel the pressure he's felt as long as he's been playing football.  We'll have to wait and see what happens.

[Bing Bong]

Absolutely if he wins the competition start him. I don't mind mccaron starting so long as it's not a foregone conclusion made by the FO after the draft

[reddogblitz]

6 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

If he wins the starting job in pre season he should be the starter.

 

And if he don't, he shouldn't.

[Mat68]

How to support a young Qb?  Good running game, and good defense.  Buffalo has plenty of both.  In terms of competition the pressure is on Aj Mccarron.  He has waited 4 years for this chance at earning a job.  Any but a complete beat out goes to the rookie.  Mccarron has to win in every area besides natural ability.  The best case come TC the table should be set.  If by that point Mccarron has not won it the transistion to Allen needs to happen. 

 

Long Qb battles never work.  The Texans look foolish to string alomg the Savage experiance as long as they did.  Preseason game 2 the Qb needs to settled and building for the season.  Wentz and Wilson won their jobs in the spring.  Hopefully, Allen does to.  No fault to Mccarron, but if its a prize fight the longer it goes the worst we are and Allen has the judges in his pocket so the worst Aj is.  Mccarron wins the job by knock out and that really it.  I dont see that being the case.

[LeGOATski]

6 hours ago, BeefCurtns said:

Lol but seriously it begs the question. If he legit wins the job in TC do you trot him out week 1?

Yeah, I still wouldn't want to.

 

Live NFL action is still a different beast than TC and preseason. Let Allen watch a few games and see the scenarios that play out. That should still be part of his OJT before he becomes the official starter.

 

I think we already heard Beane's answer to this question as I'm pretty sure he said (paraphrasing) "If he wins the job in TC, all the other players will see it. At that point, how can you not start him?"

 

I have no idea how to run an NFL team, but maybe they could make their intentions clear to the players somehow: "He won the job, but we're still going to let him watch a few real games first." Maybe they can pass that message down through the team leaders.

 

Then start him vs Green Bay.

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, Mat68 said:

How to support a young Qb?  Good running game, and good defense.  Buffalo has plenty of both.  In terms of competition the pressure is on Aj Mccarron.  He has waited 4 years for this chance at earning a job.  Any but a complete beat out goes to the rookie.  Mccarron has to win in every area besides natural ability.  The best case come TC the table should be set.  If by that point Mccarron has not won it the transistion to Allen needs to happen. 

 

Long Qb battles never work.  The Texans look foolish to string alomg the Savage experiance as long as they did.  Preseason game 2 the Qb needs to settled and building for the season.  Wentz and Wilson won their jobs in the spring.  Hopefully, Allen does to.  No fault to Mccarron, but if its a prize fight the longer it goes the worst we are and Allen has the judges in his pocket so the worst Aj is.  Mccarron wins the job by knock out and that really it.  I dont see that being the case.

The #1 thing to support a young quarterback is the O-line. Everything else comes after that. If our O-line is struggling by the opener, I think that should lean McD/Daboll towards McCarron as the starter, In my opinion. 

[Infinitum]

I don't think starting Allen day 1 is a very good idea.  They drafted a project QB, project QB's should not start day one, especially in an organization that has not proven it can develop a young QB.

[BigDingus]

2 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

The #1 thing to support a young quarterback is the O-line. Everything else comes after that. If our O-line is struggling by the opener, I think that should lean McD/Daboll towards McCarron as the starter, In my opinion. 

 

Exactly. 

And to the other guy who thinks we'll just automatically have a good run game...we regressed last year, and will likely regress more this year. 3 out of 5 of our starting O-linemen are gone, and they just so happened to be our 3 best ones. Shady is getting older, and our depth is worse at the position. 

I wouldn't say we have "plenty," in regards to a good run game.

Edited May 10, 2018 by BigDingus

[Boca BIlls]

1 minute ago, BigDingus said:

 

Exactly. 

And to the other guy who thinks we'll just automatically have a good run game...we regressed last year, and will likely regress more this year. 3 out of 5 of our starting O-linemen are gone, and they just so happened to be our 3 best ones. Shady is getting older, and our depth is worse at the position. 

I wouldn't say we have "plenty," in regards to a good run game.

So the only reasoning to start McCarron is O-line... nope you start the QB that has the best chance to win. That will be Allen week 1.

[Rocky Landing]

29 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

So the only reasoning to start McCarron is O-line... nope you start the QB that has the best chance to win. That will be Allen week 1.

What straw man said that?

[LaradiseCowboy]

Like I’ve said before, and I’ll say it again. JA WILL win the offseason. There are little to ZERO QBs in the league that can beat him in camp.

 

That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the right choice to put him in game 1. Palmer has done an exceptional job developing his game. Hopefully the Bills have good QB coaches who can do the same.

[Boca BIlls]

37 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

What straw man said that?

Did you not say...

 

"If our O-line is struggling by the opener, I think that should lean McD/Daboll towards McCarron as the starter, In my opinion. "

 

Your straws are bent if you didn't realize you said that. If anything Allen is best suited for struggling O-Line. McCarron has known nothing but good O-Lines, Allen is the one who played behind bad ones.