Scot McCloughan on Kirk Cousins: "I Don't See Special" - Headed for UFA

[BigBuff423]

26 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Okay, but again, you're excusing Cousins' poor record because he plays a tough schedule with a less than talented team. Well what are the Bills outside our secondary? 

 

Isn't the whole point of getting the magical franchise QB is finding someone who elevates his team? 

 

To your overall point, I agree. He’s a better version of Tyrod but nowhere near Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Peyton, etc. That makes getting your QB via the Draft all the more paramount to changing the destiny of the Bills next year and for the next 10 years.

[Mat68]

It is an intersting dilema.  Teams that are a qb away do not have enough room for a 20 to 30 mil cap hit for a qb.  When you pay Cousins that amount of money your roster is going to suffer.  Is he a qb that will push his team through with less than ideal circumstances.  Its a legitament question.  He hasnt shown that with the redskins.  

[Teddy KGB]

Cousins can pass Tyrod can’t 

 

Mccoy can run, Redskins rb’s can’t 

 

Who cares what Mcdrunkface said ?  

[aceman_16]

6 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Sound like anyone we know?

Andy Dalton?

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

2 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

 Couldn't the same be said of the 2016 Bills with the 7th in the league scoring offense?

 

Our QB was 30th in the league in passing that year, how can the same be said? 

[GunnerBill]

Of course this is correct. And the problem is Cousins wants to be paid like special. He isn't going to get a deal that is just the next step on from Matthew Stafford (who is a better Quarterback) he is going to get a deal that blows Stafford out of the water. 

 

I still think backing up the trucks for him would be the wrong move. I am also still extremely confident he does not end up in Buffalo. 

[reddogblitz]

19 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

Our QB was 30th in the league in passing that year, how can the same be said? 

 

I don't know, maybe if our D didn't give up so many doggone points we could have won more games? Lilke maybe the Fish Games. Offense scored  25+ points in 5 of the losses. 

 

I was responding to this statement: " but you have to look at the Redskins as a whole, if the defense matched the offensive production wouldn't they be a playoff and beyond team?"

 

you don't think statement applies to 2016 team? What does passing yards have to do with it?

 

 

Edited January 20, 2018 by reddogblitz

[ILBillsfan]

he's a top ten QB I don't see what the issue is and when the 49ers tag  Garapallo the QB market will be shifted up

 

SMH at all these comments that Taylor is somewhat comparable to Cousins

 

Sign cousins you then have your picks to add pieces with all these FA's

 

Trade up for a QB you have a coin flip if that QB will work out and no pieces

 

pretty simple decision

[NastyNateSoldiers]

10 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Of course he doesn't. Him and Snyder are the reason Cousin is going to be available. Using a McCloughan quote on Cousins is laughable. 

 

Have you seen this guy's drafts, either with the Niners or Washington? He doesn't see special period.

Are u kidding me? SM can flat out draft . Did u see the team he built in Seattle or do u forget he was a huge part of drafting those 49er teams . This guy has drafted mutiple hofers after the 4th rd.

[Nihilarian]

40 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Are u kidding me? SM can flat out draft . Did u see the team he built in Seattle or do u forget he was a huge part of drafting those 49er teams . This guy has drafted mutiple hofers after the 4th rd.

 

 

I think that had more to do with Pete Carroll who was an ex-secondary coach who drafted a prototype defensive back player, height, speed and coached them up into his scheme.

 

As far as Cousins goes, doesn't his work ethic remind anyone else of Peyton Manning? Sounds to me like the guy is special. if you can get the guy for 20-24 mill per it solves the problem of finding that very elusive franchise QB.  Which allows the team to spend the six picks in the first three rounds on building a better roster.

 

For 2018 Tyrod will make 18 mill per, Alex Smith will make 20 mill per. Stafford is the highest paid QB at 26.5 mill per. For Effs sake Chicago paid Mike Glennon 14 mill per in 2017. 

 

Look at that 2017 Redskins team, bad defense, no run game, lousy receiver corps and the Redskins still beat the Rams at LA, the Seahawks at Seattle. Looks to me like the guy carried a bad team to a 7-9 record with 4093 yards passing, 27 TDs. BTW, where is SM currently working 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Nihilarian

[Klaista2k]

I haven't watched Cousins play that much so I can't comment that much on him.

With that said I'm sure he'd be a nice upgrade over Tyrod. 

[BuffaloBaumer]

We don't need special, we need good....and he is good. He's miles better than anything we have seen in over 20 years.

[thenorthremembers]

8 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Okay, but again, you're excusing Cousins' poor record because he plays a tough schedule with a less than talented team. Well what are the Bills outside our secondary? 

 

Isn't the whole point of getting the magical franchise QB is finding someone who elevates his team? 

Feel like you may be missing my point here.  You specifically asked why Cousins record is worse than Tyrods.  I made my point in correlation to that question and that question only.  Cousins isnt a great quarterback he is just good.  Tyrod is a way below average quarterback who should be a backup.

Edited January 20, 2018 by thenorthremembers

[papazoid]

4 hours ago, ILBillsfan said:

he's a top ten QB I don't see what the issue is and when the 49ers tag  Garapallo the QB market will be shifted up

 

SMH at all these comments that Taylor is somewhat comparable to Cousins

 

Sign cousins you then have your picks to add pieces with all these FA's

 

Trade up for a QB you have a coin flip if that QB will work out and no pieces

 

pretty simple decision

 

yep

 

I guess only a top 5 QB will do for some......even though one is NOT available.

[Scott7975]

So the big knock on Cousins is that he isn't Brady?  Ok well I doubt anybody in the draft is Brady either.

 

I'd take Cousins all day and use our picks to build the team around him.  If we'd have had Cousins this season the Bills might be playing in the championship game this year instead of the Jags.  The Bills at the very least would have beaten the Jags.  Although we may have had a different path because the Bills likely would have at least beaten Carolina, 2nd Jets game, and Cinci.

 

I don't get not paying a QB because he isn't "special."  Yeah, he might not be elite like Brady and Rodgers.  Cousins is however in the top 10 IMO.  You pay those guys because those "special" guys aren't found often.  If the franchise is holding out and waiting for a HoF guy then they are a joke IMO.  At any point there may only be 3 to 5 of those guys in the league.  Most of those are going to be retiring sooner rather than later.  How many Elite HoF guys have come out of the draft in say the last 5 years?  I can't think of any.

[OldTimer1960]

9 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Okay, but again, you're excusing Cousins' poor record because he plays a tough schedule with a less than talented team. Well what are the Bills outside our secondary? 

 

Isn't the whole point of getting the magical franchise QB is finding someone who elevates his team? 

I think passing on a solid QB option because you are always looking for Brady/Rogers/Brees is a mistake.  Those guys are certain Hall of Famers and are better than most of the QBs in the Hall.  

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

So the big knock on Cousins is that he isn't Brady?  Ok well I doubt anybody in the draft is Brady either.

 

I'd take Cousins all day and use our picks to build the team around him.  If we'd have had Cousins this season the Bills might be playing in the championship game this year instead of the Jags.  The Bills at the very least would have beaten the Jags.  Although we may have had a different path because the Bills likely would have at least beaten Carolina, 2nd Jets game, and Cinci.

 

I don't get not paying a QB because he isn't "special."  Yeah, he might not be elite like Brady and Rodgers.  Cousins is however in the top 10 IMO.  You pay those guys because those "special" guys aren't found often.  If the franchise is holding out and waiting for a HoF guy then they are a joke IMO.  At any point there may only be 3 to 5 of those guys in the league.  Most of those are going to be retiring sooner rather than later.  How many Elite HoF guys have come out of the draft in say the last 5 years?  I can't think of any.

Good perspective.

[OldTimer1960]

I think that if they traded a 1st and 2nd to move up a bit to take Rudolph or Jackson and that player eventually was as good as Cousins, they would consider that a success.  Trading a lot to move up high to take Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield, gives them a shot at someone who *might* be better than Cousins, is still unlikely to be Brady/Rogers/Brees level and carries significant risk that the guy won't even be as good as Cousins.

 

On the one hand, a rookie gives you 5 years of comparatively low salary at QB, so you can spend elsewhere.  On the other hand, there is bust potential and likely loss of a lot of draft picks due to a trade up likely being required.

 

if the bar is that Cousins isn't good enough, then the only route is a major trade up, because Rudolph and Jackson will be lucky to be as good as Cousins.

Edited January 20, 2018 by OldTimer1960

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

13 hours ago, zevo said:

What’s the back story to this....cousins seems to be a very even keeled but something fired him up here

McCloughan was the GM and wouldn’t ageee with Cousins on a contract.

then at some point prior to this game McCloguhan went public and said he wanted Cousins to earn his paycheck.

mind you this was said AFTER The Redskins went 9-7, won their division and hosted a Playoff Game

 

plus it was said AFTER Cousins had as a 1st year starter 34 Tds Combined 11 ints 4,000 passing yards and a QBR of 101.

 

but yeah...McCloughan was totally right.  ? 

Edited January 20, 2018 by RalphWilson'sNewWar

[ALF]

I would rather use a 3rd rd pick for Alex Smith , draft the best QB without trading up and hope Peterman can progress.

 

Cousins would limit cap to bring in needed FAs. 

[Magox]

If we are able to get him for around the $25 million a year range, you do it.  But I doubt that we would be able to get him for that price, he will have a lot of suitors lined up and QB's as good as Cousins very rarely hit the open market.  So there will be a lot of interest for him.  I wouldn't be surprised if he gets closer to $30 M a year and I think he'll probably end up in Denver.

 

The next best option would be Smith, not quite as good as Cousins, but he's a good smart QB.  He'll lead you to the playoffs and a team that will consistently win.  Could be had at a much cheaper price and you could still be looking for your young franchise QB while you have a good QB at the helm.

[cd1]

Quote

...From the standpoint of the tangibles, they’re excellent. You just need to have some talent around him because you don’t want him to be throwing the ball 35 to 40 times to win the game. You want to have a running game, have a good defense, good [special] teams, and then let him do what he does.”

 

Sounds to me that he would be a perfect fit.  I hope McBean will find a way to make this happen!

Edited January 20, 2018 by cd1

[Kirby Jackson]

38 minutes ago, Magox said:

If we are able to get him for around the $25 million a year range, you do it.  But I doubt that we would be able to get him for that price, he will have a lot of suitors lined up and QB's as good as Cousins very rarely hit the open market.  So there will be a lot of interest for him.  I wouldn't be surprised if he gets closer to $30 M a year and I think he'll probably end up in Denver.

 

The next best option would be Smith, not quite as good as Cousins, but he's a good smart QB.  He'll lead you to the playoffs and a team that will consistently win.  Could be had at a much cheaper price and you could still be looking for your young franchise QB while you have a good QB at the helm.

I am starting to think that he may go to Cleveland for an insane amount of money. They can hand him a blank check, take Barkley at 1 and trade down from pick 4. They already have 3 second round picks to go along with it.

[SoTier]

14 hours ago, MDH said:

Of course he's not special. If he was special they would have paid him like he was. He's a top 10 QB but not in the tier of Brady, Rodgers and Brees. I don't think anybody is disputing that. That being said, he's much better than "slightly above average" that a poster above wants to paint him as.

 

I don't know if he's worth the contract he's going to get but he's one of the best QBs in the league and you can defiantly win with him if the other pieces are in place. Granted, as mentioned in the article, a huge contract my prohibit having the cash to put the rest of the team around him.

 

This is spot on.  He's at least as good as Smith, Dalton, and Flacco, and definitely better than supposed "franchise QBs" like Tannehill, Mariota, and some other former first round picks.  Like all QBs, he needs at least a decent team around him, and he hasn't had that in Washington.  Phillip Rivers hasn't led the Chargers to a playoff win in like 8 or 9 years, and has only one win in a playoff game in his career.  Is that all on him?   What about Matthew Stafford's failure to get the Lions into the playoffs with regularity?

[OldTimer1960]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I am starting to think that he may go to Cleveland for an insane amount of money. They can hand him a blank check, take Barkley at 1 and trade down from pick 4. They already have 3 second round picks to go along with it.

I think that would be a great move for the Browns.  They are like the Rams what laid dormant stockpiling talent and then it just all came together at once

 

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, OldTimer1960 said:

I think that would be a great move for the Browns.  They are like the Rams what laid dormant stockpiling talent and then it just all came together at once

 

I think that it makes a ton of sense too. They started the process last year and added 1 monster and a bunch more talent. They can do the same this year. They will also have an ungodly amount of draft capital to target certain guys if they want. As an example, if they love Roquan Smith, they can just go get him.

[OldTimer1960]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that it makes a ton of sense too. They started the process last year and added 1 monster and a bunch more talent. They can do the same this year. They will also have an ungodly amount of draft capital to target certain guys if they want. As an example, if they love Roquan Smith, they can just go get him.

Agreed.

[JAMIEBUF12]

 Cousins is definately a qb you can build a team around.I think with his work ethic he is only going to get better.Bills lose the TT contract I think they would be able to afford a 27 million qb contract and stay competitive no problem.Rookies do not get the big un proven contracts like they used to...Go Bills!!

[Magox]

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I am starting to think that he may go to Cleveland for an insane amount of money. They can hand him a blank check, take Barkley at 1 and trade down from pick 4. They already have 3 second round picks to go along with it.

 

Cleveland would instantly be a much better team.  That would make sense for them.

[papazoid]

which do you want ?

 

$30 mil/yr  Top 10

$25 mil/yr  Top 15

$20 mil/yr  Top 20

$15 mil/yr  Top 25

$10 mil/yr  Top 30

 

cousins may NOT be available.....he could still be tagged by wash

 

your just NOT fixing the QB problem without overpaying in free agency or taking a huge risk of the unknown via the draft.

 

if cousins is avail, then he probably deserves carr money $25 mil......but i'd pay $30 mil  just to fix my QB problem because there are far too few options.

[ddaryl]

 

 

Pretty much the only reason I am not on the Cousins train...   Someone wil grossly overpay him

Edited January 20, 2018 by ddaryl

[26CornerBlitz]

44 minutes ago, papazoid said:

which do you want ?

 

$30 mil/yr  Top 10

$25 mil/yr  Top 15

$20 mil/yr  Top 20

$15 mil/yr  Top 25

$10 mil/yr  Top 30

 

cousins may NOT be available.....he could still be tagged by wash

 

your just NOT fixing the QB problem without overpaying in free agency or taking a huge risk of the unknown via the draft.

 

if cousins is avail, then he probably deserves carr money $25 mil......but i'd pay $30 mil  just to fix my QB problem because there are far too few options.

 

Brandon Beane Puts Bills in 'Better Position' Under Salary Cap in 2018

Quote

While it's too early to say exactly how close the Bills are to the 2018 salary cap, it's clear they've come a long way already under GM Brandon Beane.

 

Edited January 20, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[Kirby Jackson]

18 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

Cleveland would instantly be a much better team.  That would make sense for them.

I threw it out in another thread but they could take 21,22 and 53 from us for 4. The Bills can get Darnold/Rosen. The Browns would then have Cousins, Barkley, 2 more 1st round picks and 4 2nd round picks. That’s insane.

[Richard Noggin]

15 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Wasn’t McCloughan the GM Cousins went right up into his face after a great Washington win and basically yelled at?

 

oh yeah!

 

here it is.

 

“After his 375 passing yards and three touchdowns helped the Redskins beat the Green Bay Packers 42-24, the veteran QB tracked down general manager Scot McCloughan and screamed a bold message into his ear.”

 

“How you like me now?!”

 

lol.  Keep up the good work Mr. McCloughan.  ? 

I really like that kind of drive. Get it, Kirk.

[Kirby Jackson]

13 minutes ago, papazoid said:

which do you want ?

 

$30 mil/yr  Top 10

$25 mil/yr  Top 15

$20 mil/yr  Top 20

$15 mil/yr  Top 25

$10 mil/yr  Top 30

 

cousins may NOT be available.....he could still be tagged by wash

 

your just NOT fixing the QB problem without overpaying in free agency or taking a huge risk of the unknown via the draft.

 

if cousins is avail, then he probably deserves carr money $25 mil......but i'd pay $30 mil  just to fix my QB problem because there are far too few options.

Such an interesting question!! I guess that it depends on your roster. The Colts stink but have a top 10 $30M QB. Denver has a good roster and has a cheap QB that isn’t top 30. Both teams are picking in the top 5 (although Luck was hurt). 

 

For our situation, I’d pay a QB whatever if he was the right guy. We don’t have a ton of high priced talent elsewhere.

[papazoid]

11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Such an interesting question!! I guess that it depends on your roster. The Colts stink but have a top 10 $30M QB. Denver has a good roster and has a cheap QB that isn’t top 30. Both teams are picking in the top 5 (although Luck was hurt). 

 

For our situation, I’d pay a QB whatever if he was the right guy. We don’t have a ton of high priced talent elsewhere.

 

ten highest cap hits:

 

OVERPAID - TT (18.0), Glenn (14.4), Hughes (10.4), Clay (9.0), Benjamin (8.5)

 

EARNING THEIR  KEEP  - shady (8.9), Richie (7.6), wood (8.6), hyde (6.8), poyer (3.4)

[Shaw66]

12 hours ago, beerme1 said:

 

 

He's been consistent in being. The bottom or near bottom of qb rankings regardless of coordinator though.

12th 7th 5th in passer rating last three years. 

[Kirby Jackson]

30 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

ten highest cap hits:

 

OVERPAID - TT (18.0), Glenn (14.4), Hughes (10.4), Clay (9.0), Benjamin (8.5)

 

EARNING THEIR  KEEP  - shady (8.9), Richie (7.6), wood (8.6), hyde (6.8), poyer (3.4)

I’d slide Wood to overpaid but other than that it’s fair. A lot of it is position based though. The Bills 3 highest cap hits are QB, LT and pass rusher. I’d bet that’s the case with a lot of teams.

[BillsFan2313]

16 hours ago, 87168 said:

27 TDs and no playoffs. 

 

Right?

Drew Brees in 2016, 37 tds = no playoffs

Drew Brees in 2017, 23 tds = playoffs

 

Oh thats right, he had a running game and defense this year. 

[Kirby Jackson]

9 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 

Right?

Drew Brees in 2016, 37 tds = no playoffs

Drew Brees in 2017, 23 tds = playoffs

 

Oh thats right, he had a running game and defense this year. 

Yeah, the Saints are the ultimate example to everyone that says “QB is all that matters.” Drew Brees throws for 5k every year and they win 7 games. They get balance and a defense and win a good division. 

 

Obviously QB is the most important position in sports but you need way more than that to win. Ask the Colts or Packers

[26CornerBlitz]

Bucky Brooks and Gregg Rosenthal on Kirk Cousins (2:16)