Scot McCloughan on Kirk Cousins: "I Don't See Special" - Headed for UFA

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Process said:

Brady

Roethlisberger

Luck

Rivers

Newton 

Brees

Ryan

Rodgers

Stafford

Wentz

Watson

Wilson

Garappalo

 

And there are several that are debatable, Carr, Winston, Mariota, flacco, goff

 

He is not a top ten QB lol, not even close. 

 

Some of you are nuts. I hope you goes to the Jets.

 

 

Free pass number 10 trillion for Luck.

[Sweats]

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 5:56 PM, papazoid said:

TD's thrown

 

KC - 27

TT- 13

 

that's more than slightly better

 

if cousins was on this years team....we beat JAX

 

 

 

Well, in all honesty, any QB that could have thrown even 1 TD would have put us on a good path to beating the Jags.

[auburnbillsbacker]

If the Bills had two good drafts in a row they could overcome Cousin's huge salary since rookie contracts are very reasonable right now.  If they missed on their picks they would be hurt badly because they would have a hard time resigning their own players and signing free agents.  

[SoTier]

 

3 hours ago, papazoid said:

 

 I said offensive lineman....(tackles, guards & centers)

 

as far as Tackles only (left or right)....there are 10 on each of those years  (2016 & 2017) better than Glenn.

 

he was healthy in 2016 and still didn't make the top 25 offensive lineman. on that list there were 7 left tackles.

 

my point is, cordy is being paid like the 2nd or 3rd best offensive lineman in the entire league. he will NEVER be that good. therefore, he is over paid.

 

Your arguments are simply bogus BS that's based on conveniently manipulated stats like lumping all offensive linemen together to make your point.    Even lumping RTs and LTs together ignores the realities of the modern NFL where LTs much more highly valued -- paid -- than RTs, but carry on with proving your ignorance.

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

With the salary cap expected to shoot from $167 million to $180 million or more and with plenty of teams flush with cap space and cash, the looming free-agency period could be more active than ever.

 

Which is very good news for Washington quarterback Kirk Cousins. If, of course, he actually makes it to the open market.

 

There’s still a chance he won’t. Some in league circles think Washington will use the franchise tag for a third straight year, pushing his one-year salary up by 44 percent, from $23.94 million in 2017 to $34.47 million in 2018. That would amount to more than 19 percent of the total available cap dollars for the full roster in 2018.

 

It’s also possible that Washington will opt for the transition tag, which would give Cousins only a 20-percent raise, pushing his pay for 2018 to $28.72 million. The savings of more than $5 million would be balanced by the possibility that another team would sign Cousins to a contract offer that Washington wouldn’t or couldn’t match.

[BillsFan130]

4 hours ago, Process said:

Brady

Roethlisberger

Luck

Rivers

Newton 

Brees

Ryan

Rodgers

Stafford

Wentz

Watson

Wilson

Garappalo

 

And there are several that are debatable, Carr, Winston, Mariota, flacco, goff

 

He is not a top ten QB lol, not even close. 

 

Some of you are nuts. I hope you goes to the Jets.

 

 

Ya he's for sure not top 10

 

He is probably between 13-15, so an above average QB.

 

And there's no way I would want him on the Bills for 25 per year

[RyanC883]

Is Cousins better than TT: Yes.  Is Cousins so much better than TT that we should throw a ridiculous amount of money at him: nope.  Get a comparable yet lesser priced FA (Bradford, Smith, etc), spend the money on the front 7 defense and perhaps OL.  

[dave mcbride]

I'd transition him if I were Washington. Bear in mind that Washington has a pretty good coach who desperately needs to win next season, and that ain't happening without a competent and/or rookie QB. If they transition him (rather than franchise him) at $28 million plus, they save about $6 million. The cap is going up, and that's a reasonable price for a good-if-not-great QB who can get you to 10-11 games if the other pieces are in place. I keep him and get him an upgrade at the WR2 spot, the TE spot (i.e., someone who isn't always hurt), and RB. Draft defense early. They have the 13th, 45th, and 77th picks. I'd trade back from 13 if a deal is there, and collect players. A good RB can be had in round 3 and a better WR can be signed in FA, and there are going to be some good ones. http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2018WR.php

[aristocrat]

i'd pay cousins that money all day long.  it's all about putting a great team around him. was brees worth the money the last few years going 7-9 and 8-8 or whatever?  then they draft 3 great rookies in kamara, lattimore and the saferty and boom...big run game and nice defense.  they win a bunch of games and one bad play from being in the nfc title game.   in pitt big ben has two HOF players around him on offense...one who might be the best wr ever. the defense is stacked as well. 

 

we could pay him the money...draft well and we will look like new orleans was this year. or we could pay him the money and not draft well and look like new orleans the last few years. that's what it comes down to. 

[Dr. Who]

Just now, aristocrat said:

i'd pay cousins that money all day long.  it's all about putting a great team around him. was brees worth the money the last few years going 7-9 and 8-8 or whatever?  then they draft 3 great rookies in kamara, lattimore and the saferty and boom...big run game and nice defense.  they win a bunch of games and one bad play from being in the nfc title game.   in pitt big ben has two HOF players around him on offense...one who might be the best wr ever. the defense is stacked as well. 

 

we could pay him the money...draft well and we will look like new orleans was this year. or we could pay him the money and not draft well and look like new orleans the last few years. that's what it comes down to. 

Doesn't your analogy depend on Cousins being the equivalent of Brees?  I don't think he's all that.

[aristocrat]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Doesn't your analogy depend on Cousins being the equivalent of Brees?  I don't think he's all that.

 

great response. look at rivers. tons of yards and tds but never does anything cause they have no defense. russell wilson threw for a ton this year but lost his defense. see a pattern here?  we know cousins can put up nice numbers with hardly any talent on his offense. i think it's a reasonable risk to sign him and let our new gm surround him with all those picks we have. if cousins comes here and puts up 4200 yards, 28 tds and 13 picks would you hate the contract?  especially if our gm can do what he did with our secondary to our front seven?  i'd forget all about that contract real quick

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

5 hours ago, Process said:

Brady

Roethlisberger

Luck

Rivers

Newton 

Brees

Ryan

Rodgers

Stafford

Wentz

Watson

Wilson

Luck

Garappalo

 

And there are several that are debatable, Carr, Winston, Mariota, flacco, goff

 

He is not a top ten QB lol, not even close. 

 

Some of you are nuts. I hope you goes to the Jets.

 

the last doesn't belong on that list.    When the guy does something worthy then we can discuss.   7 games does not make a player.   (2 with NE against crap teams)

 

Haven't people learned that with Tyrod?  

and Osweiller and Tebow and Cassel and ............... ................ .............

[John from Riverside]

My worry is you get strapped down to Cousins contract and then cannot improve the rest of the team without having horrible seasons and picking high in the draft.

 

Just get Alex Smith and draft a guy with a lot of potential who needs to hold a clip board for a while.

[prissythecat]

2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

the last doesn't belong on that list.    When the guy does something worthy then we can discuss.   7 games does not make a player.   (2 with NE against crap teams)

 

Haven't people learned that with Tyrod?  

 

I think the list is pretty fair overall though . Shows that the notion that Cousins is a top 10 QB may not be the most accurate one.

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

My worry is you get strapped down to Cousins contract and then cannot improve the rest of the team without having horrible seasons and picking high in the draft.

 

Just get Alex Smith and draft a guy with a lot of potential who needs to hold a clip board for a while.

 

Agreed. A much better way to go IMO. 

[aristocrat]

9 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

I think the list is pretty fair overall though . Shows that the notion that Cousins is a top 10 QB may not be the most accurate one.

 

i think the margin of difference in that list is small. it's not like there is this huge difference between many of them

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 hours ago, prissythecat said:

 

I think the list is pretty fair overall though . Shows that the notion that Cousins is a top 10 QB may not be the most accurate one.

This is true. But in all honesty Jimmy G doesn't deserve to sniff their jocks.  Even the Watson one is a stretch for a rookie.  But Jimmy never looked as good as watson in his rookie season/  

 

 

3 hours ago, John from Hemet said:

My worry is you get strapped down to Cousins contract and then cannot improve the rest of the team without having horrible seasons and picking high in the draft.

 

Just get Alex Smith and draft a guy with a lot of potential who needs to hold a clip board for a while.

With any contract we need an out.   How many seasons would you be willing to give Kirk? 1 or 2?  If 2 $50 Mil guaranteed.  Boom done 

 

Alex Smith might be gotten for just one season which makes it a more reasonable choice. 

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

This is true. But in all honesty Jimmy G doesn't deserve to sniff their jocks.  Even the Watson one is a stretch for a rookie.  But Jimmy never looked as good as watson in his rookie season/  

 

 

With any contract we need an out.   How many seasons would you be willing to give Kirk? 1 or 2?  If 2 $50 Mil guaranteed.  Boom done 

 

Well that is the pickle isnt it?  Cousins will be in such high demand teams will give him the moon and the brinks truck.....he has been playing on franchise tags and will probably not go for that "out"

 

Just sign a capable vet.....and draft a guy (and bring in a real coach to groom the rook)

[Kirby Jackson]

3 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

the last doesn't belong on that list.    When the guy does something worthy then we can discuss.   7 games does not make a player.   (2 with NE against crap teams)

 

Haven't people learned that with Tyrod?  

and Osweiller and Tebow and Cassel and ............... ................ .............

Yes and no. Garropolo has 7 NFL starts and is 7-0. He’s been in the league 4 full seasons and has attempted 272 passes. The sample size is small but it’s not 1 game of Rob Johnson.

 

It may be early to say he’s in the top 10 but I’d bet that there are 10 QBs in the league that they take straight up for him. I’m guessing that Cousins will get more than Jimmy G this offseason but not a ton more. As a hypothetical say that Jimmy G and Cousins each had 1 year and $22M left on their contract. Would Washington flip Cousins straight up for Garoppolo? Would SF say yes? I would bet that SF would rather Garoppolo than Cousins all things being equal.

[Socal-805]

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 3:16 PM, ScottLaw said:

In Dennisons offense with this offensive roster? Maybe. 

 

Cousins is better then Tyrod, but I find it funny how soon people have forgotten Tyrod was solid the past couple years before Dennison arrived and forced a system on a QB who clearly didn't fit it. Along with a coach/GM who stripped the offense of most of its playmakers and having the worst WR corps in the league.

 

 

 

Solid...  Define SOLID.  You mean 30 - 31 worst pass Offense in league?

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yes and no. Garropolo has 7 NFL starts and is 7-0. He’s been in the league 4 full seasons and has attempted 272 passes. The sample size is small but it’s not 1 game of Rob Johnson.

 

It may be early to say he’s in the top 10 but I’d bet that there are 10 QBs in the league that they take straight up for him. I’m guessing that Cousins will get more than Jimmy G this offseason but not a ton more. As a hypothetical say that Jimmy G and Cousins each had 1 year and $22M left on their contract. Would Washington flip Cousins straight up for Garoppolo? Would SF say yes? I would bet that SF would rather Garoppolo than Cousins all things being equal.

 

Yup! So would anyone with a decent set of eyes who has watched either of them play.

[LABILLBACKER]

I want elite. I want a franchise top 12 qb. Not a .500 guy who will occasionally get you a 300 yard game. Paying him  $34M is absolutely ridiculous. I'd rather rent Alex  Smith for a substantially lower contract and let him mentor Peterman and whoever we draft for 2 years.

Edited January 22, 2018 by LABILLBACKER

[Tenhigh]

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 5:56 PM, papazoid said:

TD's thrown

 

KC - 27

TT- 13

 

that's more than slightly better

 

if cousins was on this years team....we beat JAX

At home.

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

Is Cousins better than TT: Yes.  Is Cousins so much better than TT that we should throw a ridiculous amount of money at him: nope.  Get a comparable yet lesser priced FA (Bradford, Smith, etc), spend the money on the front 7 defense and perhaps OL.  

 

Yes I would throw money at him.

 

Much better QB then the Bill's had at QB maybe since Bledsoe but much better then him. Some people say Nick Foles but Kirk much better then him IMO. Nick is good with a good D bad D exposed.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yes and no. Garropolo has 7 NFL starts and is 7-0. He’s been in the league 4 full seasons and has attempted 272 passes. The sample size is small but it’s not 1 game of Rob Johnson.

 

It may be early to say he’s in the top 10 but I’d bet that there are 10 QBs in the league that they take straight up for him. I’m guessing that Cousins will get more than Jimmy G this offseason but not a ton more. As a hypothetical say that Jimmy G and Cousins each had 1 year and $22M left on their contract. Would Washington flip Cousins straight up for Garoppolo? Would SF say yes? I would bet that SF would rather Garoppolo than Cousins all things being equal.

Not saying Jimmy is bad, good or great but I still need to see a full schedule against legit contenders.   See Cassel.  

 

The SOS he has faced thus far has not been very hard.  

IIRC 

Seattle was in decline, Jacksonville and Bortles, SF and Goff. The rest were easy teams to defeat.  

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[ndirish1978]

On 1/19/2018 at 10:44 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Okay, but again, you're excusing Cousins' poor record because he plays a tough schedule with a less than talented team. Well what are the Bills outside our secondary? 

 

Isn't the whole point of getting the magical franchise QB is finding someone who elevates his team? 

 

That's kind a difficult point to argue. Are you saying you don't know they would have been a much worse team without him?

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

Yes I would throw money at him.

 

Much better QB then the Bill's had at QB maybe since Bledsoe but much better then him. Some people say Nick Foles but Kirk much better then him IMO. Nick is good with a good D bad D exposed.

 

do you think Cousins is much better than Bradford or Smith?   I haven't watched a ton of Cousins, but what I have seen would have me put him in that category....a tier below "break the bank."  I agree with Cousins over Foles.  

[reddogblitz]

14 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

Haven't people learned that with Tyrod?  

and Osweiller and Tebow and Cassel and ............... ................ .............

 

Rob Johnson

 

Watson

Wentz

 

Way too early to these guys too.

Edited January 23, 2018 by reddogblitz

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yes and no. Garropolo has 7 NFL starts and is 7-0. He’s been in the league 4 full seasons and has attempted 272 passes. The sample size is small but it’s not 1 game of Rob Johnson.

 

It may be early to say he’s in the top 10 but I’d bet that there are 10 QBs in the league that they take straight up for him. I’m guessing that Cousins will get more than Jimmy G this offseason but not a ton more. As a hypothetical say that Jimmy G and Cousins each had 1 year and $22M left on their contract. Would Washington flip Cousins straight up for Garoppolo? Would SF say yes? I would bet that SF would rather Garoppolo than Cousins all things being equal.

 

I was starting to pull together my annual post season QB rankings yesterday..... the two hardest guys to rank are Watson and Garoppolo because with both you love what you have seen so far.... but you are looking at 5 starts and 7 starts..... and how do you rank that against an Andy Dalton type who has been in the league 7 years and been consistently good but not great?? 

 

If you gave most NFL GMs a choice I suspect they take Jimmy or Deshaun over the known ceiling of Dalton but it is such a small sample size when you are trying to say who is superior.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Rob Johnson

 

Watson

Wentz *

 

Way too early to these guys too.

good point.   Lets add Goff too.  * One bad season one good season.  

[BuffaloHokie13]

On 1/22/2018 at 7:00 AM, Process said:

Brady

Roethlisberger

Luck

Rivers

Newton 

Brees

Ryan

Rodgers

Stafford

Wentz

Watson

Wilson

Garappalo

 

And there are several that are debatable, Carr, Winston, Mariota, flacco, goff

 

He is not a top ten QB lol, not even close. 

 

Some of you are nuts. I hope you goes to the Jets.

I'd probably put Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Luck, Newton, Stafford, Wilson, and Ryan ahead of Cousins. That puts him 9th, for me anyway.

 

Guys I'd put him ahead of are Rivers, Carr, Roethlisberger, Dalton, Mariota, Winston, Manning, Flacco, Smith.

 

Wentz, Goff, Watson, Prescott, and Jimmy G are still in Wait & See territory.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I'd probably put Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Luck, Newton, Stafford, Wilson, and Ryan ahead of Cousins. That puts him 9th, for me anyway.

 

Guys I'd put him ahead of are Rivers, Carr, Roethlisberger, Dalton, Mariota, Winston, Manning, Flacco, Smith.

 

Big Ben is way better than him for me.  I'd have Rivers over him too (though there is some Rivers in him I think).  The rest of your list I agree he is ahead of.  I suppose that is 11th.  

Edited January 23, 2018 by GunnerBill

[BuffaloHokie13]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Big Ben is way better than him for me.  I'd have Rivers over him too (though there is some Rivers in him I think).  The rest of your list I agree he is ahead of.  I suppose that is 11th.  

Ben's placement is partially based on the fact that he is contemplating retirement after every season, and that he's benefited from incredible talent at the skill positions throughout his career.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Ben's placement is partially based on the fact that he is contemplating retirement after every season, and that he's benefited from incredible talent at the skill positions throughout his career.

 

He remains the 4th best QB in the league for me after the three obvious ones.  He had a shaky first few weeks in 2017 but once he hit his stride he was outstanding again.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 1/19/2018 at 7:42 PM, HT02 said:

I think that is an very honest and on-target assessment.   I think he is over-hyped and would be fine at the right price but not what he's going to make.

 

Here's the problem in a nutshell: no QB is worth the money they're going to make on the open market. 

 

I mean, seriously.  One guy with a brain, feet, and an arm.  >$20M a year?  What's he gonna do for that, achieve world peace?  Cure cancer?

The NFL marketplace has become absurd.  But if you're running a football team, It Is What It Is.

 

It's like the joke about the guy who takes his brother to a psychiatrist:

"he thinks he's a chicken" "how long has this been going on?" "10 years" "why didn't you bring him in sooner?" "we needed the eggs"

 

If an NFL team wants to win, they need to take enough shots at finding a QB.  F*ck if he's "worth it".  Can he do what you need?

-Top FA, you lower your risk by having a body of work in the NFL to work with.  You need to look very carefully at the details just in case.  What plays does he make consistently?  When he screws up, why?  Is he completing off-target passes because his wideouts are All-World?  Sign a high-priced FA who can't cut it, you screw your team.

-Draft, higher risk.  Experts who do the job for a living screw up half the time at the top of the draft.  If you take someone you like who falls to you or a modest trade-up, less risk.  Trade away 2 drafts worth of picks and the guy screws up, you screw your team.

 

The problem the Bills have had is a penchant for doing neither.  We try to get by on the QB Blue Light Specials, then we give them all 3 years.

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[HT02]

On 1/23/2018 at 9:38 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Here's the problem in a nutshell: no QB is worth the money they're going to make on the open market. 

 

I mean, seriously.  One guy with a brain, feet, and an arm.  >$20M a year?  What's he gonna do for that, achieve world peace?  Cure cancer?

The NFL marketplace has become absurd.  But if you're running a football team, It Is What It Is.

 

It's like the joke about the guy who takes his brother to a psychiatrist:

"he thinks he's a chicken" "how long has this been going on?" "10 years" "why didn't you bring him in sooner?" "we needed the eggs"

 

If an NFL team wants to win, they need to take enough shots at finding a QB.  F*ck if he's "worth it".  Can he do what you need?

-Top FA, you lower your risk by having a body of work in the NFL to work with.  You need to look very carefully at the details just in case.  What plays does he make consistently?  When he screws up, why?  Is he completing off-target passes because his wideouts are All-World?  Sign a high-priced FA who can't cut it, you screw your team.

-Draft, higher risk.  Experts who do the job for a living screw up half the time at the top of the draft.  If you take someone you like who falls to you or a modest trade-up, less risk.  Trade away 2 drafts worth of picks and the guy screws up, you screw your team.

 

The problem the Bills have had is a penchant for doing neither.  We try to get by on the QB Blue Light Specials, then we give them all 3 years.

 

I am with you 100% with the need to get a top 5 QB, my point is I don't think that describes what Cousins is or can be.  I'd say his top end is 10-15 which is fine but from what I've seen of him play I don't see him as a guy who can take an 8-8 team and make them 11-6 or 12-5.  He will take up a huge chunk of the salary cap and you won't have much money left to build around him.  This guy could be the top paid QB in the NFL and he's not going to bring that kind of value to your club.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, HT02 said:

I am with you 100% with the need to get a top 5 QB, my point is I don't think that describes what Cousins is or can be.  I'd say his top end is 10-15 which is fine but from what I've seen of him play I don't see him as a guy who can take an 8-8 team and make them 11-6 or 12-5.  He will take up a huge chunk of the salary cap and you won't have much money left to build around him.  This guy could be the top paid QB in the NFL and he's not going to bring that kind of value to your club.  

 

It depends upon your 8-8 team, right?

 

The Bills were a 9-7 team last year, 9-9 if you count playoffs.  We lost 2 regular season games by 3 and 4 points - one TD wins it for us.

We lost the playoff game by 7 points - 1 TD ties it.

 

I can see 2 more wins there easily with a QB who can mount an effective passing attack, if you disagree, why?  That would put us at 11-5.  If we're able to sustain more drives and keep the D fresh, maybe we get more stops and other games are within reach - the first Jets game, for example.  Now we're 12-4.

 

Now that said, hopefully the Bills have someone picking apart Cousin's game to assess whether or not he's worth it from the details of how he goes through his progressions, handles pressure in the pocket, and the precision of various throws, but in terms of the stats available he actually is in the top 10 and a bunch of the QB commonly listed as "top 10" have not, for the last couple years, been performing at that level - Cam Newton would be one example.

 

On the QB pay, I think we've been cheerfully over-paying for every position BUT QB.  Maybe if we didn't hand out huge contracts to multiple DLmen and to a TE we underutilize 'cuz, QB, we can pay a QB AND build around him.

The whole Bills talent situation has been compounded by 1) feeling that we're "close" so it's smart to bring in high-price FA to get us "over the hump" (Mario Williams, Clay) 2) creating holes for ourselves by constant coaching churn and scheme changes, which has led to shedding talented draftees who are no longer "right" but go on to the playoffs with other teams.  If we stop doing that yeah, we can pay a QB and put a team around him - how is N'Orleans doing it, they had a D this year for sure?  And for that matter, the Eagles have been throwing around QB money, not to 1 QB but to several (Bradford, Chase Daniels, Wentz, Foles - look at the signing bonuses they ate with the first 2)

 

 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, HT02 said:

I am with you 100% with the need to get a top 5 QB, my point is I don't think that describes what Cousins is or can be.  I'd say his top end is 10-15 which is fine but from what I've seen of him play I don't see him as a guy who can take an 8-8 team and make them 11-6 or 12-5.  He will take up a huge chunk of the salary cap and you won't have much money left to build around him.  This guy could be the top paid QB in the NFL and he's not going to bring that kind of value to your club.  

I don't think the objective is a top 5 QB.   I think it's top 10.   If you're objective is top 5, it will take 20 or 30 years to get there.   Dolphins have been looking that long.  Jets.   Redskins, Tennessee, Baltimore, Cincinnati.  Detroit, Buffalo, Denver, Jacksonville, Tampa Bay.  Minnesota.  Chicago's been looking 50 years.    

 

It's a fool's game to make your objective a top 5 QB.   The objective is to be competitive this year, or next, or the year after.   If you have a top 10 quarterback, you can compete.    Look at anyone's list of the top 10.   Those look like they have a legitimate shot at the playoffs every year, and that's what you want. 

 

So I think the question is whether Cousins is top 10, not top 5.   Top 10 is a close question.   Once Brady, Ben and Brees retire, Cousins probably is top 10.   

 

If you have a guy who's top 10, then I think Hapless is correct - it doesn't matter how much you pay him.   Obviously, you'd like to pay him as little as possible, but even if he's the 10th best QB and you make him the highest paid QB in the league, it's worth it, because he gives you a shot at the playoffs every year.   The Ravens did it with Flacco, but it turned out they were wrong - he isn't top 10.  Lions did it with Stafford, probably a good move.   Raiders did it with Carr, we'll see.  Colts did it with Luck, and we'll see about that, too.  Falcons did it with Ryan, good move.  Bengals did it with Dalton, probably not such a good move.  

 

The point, however, is not whether the decision turned out to be a good move or not.   It's whether the guy is a good bet to turn out top 10.   If he is a good bet, you make the bet, and it really doesn't matter how many chips you have to put on the table.   If you don't bet on someone, you can't win.   

 

And if you think Cousins is a good bet for the top 10, he's a better bet than an untested rookie, no matter how much contract money you save.   The surest of sure things in the last 10 years, Andrew Luck, doesn't look so much like a top 10 QB, and there are no QBs in the draft with odds anything like Luck coming out of college.  

[HT02]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It depends upon your 8-8 team, right?

 

The Bills were a 9-7 team last year, 9-9 if you count playoffs.  We lost 2 regular season games by 3 and 4 points - one TD wins it for us.

We lost the playoff game by 7 points - 1 TD ties it.

 

I can see 2 more wins there easily with a QB who can mount an effective passing attack, if you disagree, why?  That would put us at 11-5.  If we're able to sustain more drives and keep the D fresh, maybe we get more stops and other games are within reach - the first Jets game, for example.  Now we're 12-4.

 

Now that said, hopefully the Bills have someone picking apart Cousin's game to assess whether or not he's worth it from the details of how he goes through his progressions, handles pressure in the pocket, and the precision of various throws, but in terms of the stats available he actually is in the top 10 and a bunch of the QB commonly listed as "top 10" have not, for the last couple years, been performing at that level - Cam Newton would be one example.

 

On the QB pay, I think we've been cheerfully over-paying for every position BUT QB.  Maybe if we didn't hand out huge contracts to multiple DLmen and to a TE we underutilize 'cuz, QB, we can pay a QB AND build around him.

The whole Bills talent situation has been compounded by 1) feeling that we're "close" so it's smart to bring in high-price FA to get us "over the hump" (Mario Williams, Clay) 2) creating holes for ourselves by constant coaching churn and scheme changes, which has led to shedding talented draftees who are no longer "right" but go on to the playoffs with other teams.  If we stop doing that yeah, we can pay a QB and put a team around him - how is N'Orleans doing it, they had a D this year for sure?  And for that matter, the Eagles have been throwing around QB money, not to 1 QB but to several (Bradford, Chase Daniels, Wentz, Foles - look at the signing bonuses they ate with the first 2)

 

 

It's entirely possible that Cousins could have won a couple of games that Taylor let get away, he is definitely a better QB.  It is also possible he could have also lost at least one Taylor won because he did turn over the football more often. I think you mean the second Jets game, the Bills won the first.  He is no doubt a better QB than Taylor but I don't think he is good enough to eat up that much cap space.

 

I am in complete agreement with you that it all starts with the QB, get a good one and the rest falls into place.  Look at the Colts and Packers without Luck and Rogers.  If that type of QB becomes available open up the vault and pay him whatever it takes.  I would include Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, David Carr and a few others in that group.

 

Cousins career record as a starter is 26 -30-1, his best season was 9-7.  You could certainly make the case that the Redskins have not been great during that period and he'd be much better with a better team around him but that would sound very similar to the people who argue the same about Tyrod.

 

 

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't think the objective is a top 5 QB.   I think it's top 10.   If you're objective is top 5, it will take 20 or 30 years to get there.   Dolphins have been looking that long.  Jets.   Redskins, Tennessee, Baltimore, Cincinnati.  Detroit, Buffalo, Denver, Jacksonville, Tampa Bay.  Minnesota.  Chicago's been looking 50 years.    

 

It's a fool's game to make your objective a top 5 QB.   The objective is to be competitive this year, or next, or the year after.   If you have a top 10 quarterback, you can compete.    Look at anyone's list of the top 10.   Those look like they have a legitimate shot at the playoffs every year, and that's what you want. 

 

So I think the question is whether Cousins is top 10, not top 5.   Top 10 is a close question.   Once Brady, Ben and Brees retire, Cousins probably is top 10.   

 

If you have a guy who's top 10, then I think Hapless is correct - it doesn't matter how much you pay him.   Obviously, you'd like to pay him as little as possible, but even if he's the 10th best QB and you make him the highest paid QB in the league, it's worth it, because he gives you a shot at the playoffs every year.   The Ravens did it with Flacco, but it turned out they were wrong - he isn't top 10.  Lions did it with Stafford, probably a good move.   Raiders did it with Carr, we'll see.  Colts did it with Luck, and we'll see about that, too.  Falcons did it with Ryan, good move.  Bengals did it with Dalton, probably not such a good move.  

 

The point, however, is not whether the decision turned out to be a good move or not.   It's whether the guy is a good bet to turn out top 10.   If he is a good bet, you make the bet, and it really doesn't matter how many chips you have to put on the table.   If you don't bet on someone, you can't win.   

 

And if you think Cousins is a good bet for the top 10, he's a better bet than an untested rookie, no matter how much contract money you save.   The surest of sure things in the last 10 years, Andrew Luck, doesn't look so much like a top 10 QB, and there are no QBs in the draft with odds anything like Luck coming out of college.  

I disagree with you about top 5 versus top 10.  A top 10 QB assures that you will have a  team that is a serious play-off contender each year, a top 5 QB almost certainly assures that you have a Super Bowl contender each year.  As far as once Brady, Ben and Brees retire, Cousins probably is top 10, that assumes Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield or others aren't better.  I believe in 3 years he still won't be a top 10 guy.

[reddogblitz]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The Bills were a 9-7 team last year, 9-9 if you count playoffs

 

9-8