Daboll's preferred offense and QB.

[Lfod]

Thanks for a some deeper insight. I didn't get a chance to see this in the main thread. I read this and thought we are rolling out with a rookie QB next year. I don't know why. 

[KHAN]

18 minutes ago, 145B4IDIE said:

I'm being serious, sounds like Peterman's scouting report

 

I was going to say this. But I was too scared. 

[WhoTom]

4 hours ago, Dalton said:

This is what makes a good site, not one line comments that a person sucks with no supporting facts.

 

The OP is true to his user name.

 

 

[FLFan]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

"Logic" and others had the very fair point that when threads are too long people understandably don't want to wade through them, but you are incorrect.

The original thread had EXACTLY this information.

 

I apologize then for missing it.  

Edited January 15, 2018 by MDFan

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

24 minutes ago, 145B4IDIE said:

I'm being serious, sounds like Peterman's scouting report

 

...grasping the mental fundamentals first is a bigger priority to me versus physical......."bigger, stronger & faster" becomes the task of your S&C gang.......and surprisingly yes, Peterman has demonstrated the mental grasp this early on, especially for a 5th....lack thereof plagued EJ & TT IMO.......

1 minute ago, MDFan said:

 

I apologize then for missing it.  

 

 

....you're fine....LOGIC offered up some REALLY interesting stuff that would have been lost in the other thread of 42+ pages now comprised of "hire sucks...no it doesn't" drama......

[Big Turk]

Seems similar to what the Super Bowl Bills under Kelly used to do...from what Kelly has said numerous times, the team only had 20-30 plays total that they used over and over again out of different formations.  Their execution was so good it didn't matter if the teams knew the plays or not, they couldn't stop them.

[Rob's House]

8 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...grasping the mental fundamentals first is a bigger priority to me versus physical......."bigger, stronger & faster" becomes the task of your S&C gang.......and surprisingly yes, Peterman has demonstrated the mental grasp this early on, especially for a 5th....lack thereof plagued EJ & TT IMO.......

 

 

....you're fine....LOGIC offered up some REALLY interesting stuff that would have been lost in the other thread of 42+ pages now comprised of "hire sucks...no it doesn't" drama......

At least it's nostalgic for the BBMBers.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Strethor said:

This is exciting 

 

Even more exciting when you realize that we likely stole him away from Bellichick because he was being counted on to be McDaniels replacement when he left for a head coaching job...If he is good enough for Bellichick, he is good enough for me.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

9 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Seems similar to what the Super Bowl Bills under Kelly used to do...from what Kelly has said numerous times, the team only had 20-30 plays total that they used over and over again out of different formations.  Their execution was so good it didn't matter if the teams knew the plays or not, they couldn't stop them.

 

....remember reading about this several years ago when Deadskins hired KC's OC Al Saunders....playbook was 700 PAGES.........

 

Redskins' Saunders defends the 700-page play book

Aug 15, 2007

• ASHBURN, Va. -- Al Saunders took a reporter's pen and
  notepad and started drawing a play.

  "This is why it just cracks me up when you guys make fun of
  that play book," he said, peppering the yellow page with arrows,
  circles and numbers.

  When he finished, Saunders pointed to the numbers associated
  with the patterns and said he could teach anyone to run pass routes
  in his offense in 20 minutes.

  "If you can count from 0 to 9," the Washington Redskins'
  associate head coach said, "you can be a wide receiver in our
  offense."

  The phrase "700-page play book" became synonymous with the
  Redskins' offensive struggles during last year's 5-11 season, and
  Saunders wanted to set the record straight -- his schemes aren't
  that complicated. The pages aren't numbered, but 700 is a conservative
  estimate.

  http://www.espn.com/espn/wire?section=nfl&id=2976323

   

Edited January 15, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[wiskibreth]

4 hours ago, Logic said:

Agreed. It would be nice to see a 2018 passing offense rather than a 1998 passing offense.

 

3 hours ago, chris heff said:

I’m confused, how is an offense designed by Ray Perkins and Ron Erhardt a modern 2018 NFL offense?

 

Think of it as an offensive framework and a system by which plays are called.  The actual plays, or "concepts" can be anything the coaches draw them up to be, whether modern, or tried and tested.  They're not necessarily calling concepts(plays) that were drawn up in 1978 (but they could if they still work).  They could be all new concepts, even special concepts drawn up to defeat certain modern defenses based on last week's film, opponent's tendancies and the players they/you have available.

 

I like the way the concepts will change week to week depending on opponent and personnel, or even quarter to quarter depending on what the defense is trying to specifically prevent.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

9 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

At least it's nostalgic for the BBMBers.

 

 

....LMAO....shades of UNDERTAKER and his "War and Peace" arguments that he never wanted to lose............

[muppy]

Don't EVER sleep on LOGIC when he posts yo.... Dude was one of the BEST posters bbmb ever had and I used to read them all pretty regularly....Always solid solid football takes and zero angst/drama  LOL muppy~

[swnybillsfan]

3 hours ago, Rubes said:

Sounds reasonable. In the end, what really matters is having a QB who can read the defense, find the right receiver, and put it in exactly the right spot.

 

this is fairly exciting. now, which draftee is best suited to run this type of offense? and can we get this guy?

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Looks like a system Cousins would flourish in..

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Looks like a system Cousins would flourish in..

 

 

...except DaBoll is in BUFFALO...............

[HappyDays]

I was pretty on the fence about this hire. This article and a couple others posted about him have made me a lot more optimistic. Sounds like he is versatile and will adapt his scheme to fit the players, which is the opposite of Dennison. That's already a win in my book. He has to be a better play called by default. Very curious to see which direction we go at QB.

[Rubes]

1 hour ago, 145B4IDIE said:

I'm being serious, sounds like Peterman's scouting report

 

Sorry, I meant "offensive receiver", not "defensive receiver".

 

[boater]

4 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Perhaps...I would like to see us draft a Julien Edelman or Wes Welker type receiver- that is quick in small spaces.  That type of receiver is so key to the Pats sustaining their drives.

 

Edelman .. small spaces .. I couldn't stop this reply

https://deadspin.com/tinder-girls-icebreaker-just-!@#$ed-edelman-no-lie-1683702726

[Cruiserplayer]

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Looks like a system Cousins would flourish in..

I’m pretty sure that is the system that cousins flourished in along with Matt Ryan and now Jimmy Garoppolo.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

From the second article, this is what like best about the offense;

 

"On a week to week basis, Daboll can expand and contract the playbook and design a game plan tailored to beat a given opponent."

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

13 hours ago, Logic said:

Below are some great articles about the Erhardt-Perkins offense, which our new offensive coordinator will be running. The first talks about the system in general, with some great diagrams of plays to give examples. The second article talks about Daboll's offense specifically.

http://grantland.com/features/how-terminology-erhardt-perkins-system-helped-maintain-dominance-tom-brady-patriots/

http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2017/11/why_alabamas_offense_is_like_a.html

 

"The backbone of the Erhardt-Perkins system is that plays — pass plays in particular — are not organized by a route tree or by calling a single receiver’s route, but by what coaches refer to as “concepts.” Each play has a name, and that name conjures up an image for both the quarterback and the other players on offense. And, most importantly, the concept can be called from almost any formation or set. Who does what changes, but the theory and tactics driving the play do not. “In essence, you’re running the same play,” said Perkins. “You’re just giving them some window-dressing to make it look different.”

The biggest advantage of the concept-based system is that it operates from the perspective of the most critical player on offense: the quarterback. In other systems, even if the underlying principles are the exact same, the play and its name might be very different. Rather than juggling all this information in real time, an Erhardt-Perkins quarterback only has to read a given arrangement of receivers. “You can cut down on the plays and get different looks from your formations and who’s in them. It’s easier for the players to learn. It’s easier for the quarterback to learn,” former Patriots offensive coordinator Charlie Weis said back in 2000. “You get different looks without changing his reads. You don’t need an open-ended number of plays.”

 

Let’s look at a play that has long been a staple of the Patriots attack. This is actually two different concepts put together — “ghost/tosser,” which has the Patriots run the ghost concept to one side and the tosser concept to the other. Ghost has the outermost receiver, whoever it is, run a vertical route, one inside receiver run to a depth of roughly eight yards before breaking flat to the outside, and the innermost receiver run immediately to the flat. It’s a form of the “stick” or “turn” concept that essentially every NFL team uses. On the other side, tosser means that the receivers run the double-slant concept. The page below is from the Patriots’ playbook.

The theory here is that no matter the formation, there is an outside receiver, an inside receiver, and a middle receiver, and each will be responsible for running his designated route. For the quarterback, this means the play can be run repeatedly, from different formations and with different personnel, all while his read stays effectively the same. Once receivers understand each concept, they only have to know at which position they’re lined up. The personnel and formation might cause the defense to respond differently, but for New England those changes only affect which side Brady prefers or which receiver he expects to be open. This conceptual approach is how the Patriots are able to run the same basic plays, whether spreading the field with four or five receivers or using multiple tight ends and running backs.

And from Daboll:

"You choose what you want to do and each week based on what the other team does, based on the coverages that they play," he said. "You don't just draw up new stuff every week...We can expand that or contract it or use the things that we think are best based on what the other team plays. I think that's what we've tried to do all year long and that's what gives the players the best chance to execute."

After reading these articles and diving into the Erhardt-Perkins offense in general, I feel pretty excited about Buffalo's offensive future. The diversity that the offense offers -- while still using verbiage that is simpler than many other systems -- is enticing. I get the sense that with this offense, and with Daboll's recent experience coaching the college game, we're going to see a much more diverse, modern, interesting offensive attack in Buffalo next year. An attack that adjusts from week to week to exploit opponent's weaknesses and find advantageous personnel matchups. Unlike many on these forums, I think the hire of Daboll was an excellent one and I can't wait to see his offense in action.

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

How is it we never heard of the name of this offense nor its concepts before?

 

( So Brady would have sucked if drafted by the Bills  )

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

12 hours ago, jr1 said:

the Bills used this multiple times already https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Patriots_strategy#NFL_teams_that_used_the_Erhardt-Perkins_offense

 

Well those Bill's offenses were solid, Just think what we could do when we get a real QB.

 

 

[JinxedBill1]

The offensive system is going to be similar to the patriots by a guy who worked with them for years?

 

sign me up!  

Edited January 16, 2018 by JinxedBill1

[Tatonka68]

What I read Daboll runs a power run game and a ball control short passing game. If they change QB's what player fits that style. Keep in mind McDermott said he prefers a veteran presence. Not my choice but I see them signing Sam Bradford to groom Petermen. Then using top 4 picks on front seven on defense. NOT MY CHOICE.

[H2o]

1 minute ago, Tatonka68 said:

What I read Daboll runs a power run game and a ball control short passing game. If they change QB's what player fits that style. Keep in mind McDermott said he prefers a veteran presence. Not my choice but I see them signing Sam Bradford to groom Petermen. Then using top 4 picks on front seven on defense. NOT MY CHOICE.

Not trying to be a d*ck, but I think this is being discussed in numerous other threads about Daboll, QB's, and his offensive scheme. 

[Mrbojanglezs]

Getting rid of Dennison and hiring Daboll keeps it open ended at qb, we are no longer restricted at a type of QB to fit the west coast style

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, H2o said:

Not trying to be a d*ck, but I think this is being discussed in numerous other threads about Daboll, QB's, and his offensive scheme. 

 

This.  I can get it when a thread is 20 pages long and contentious, but there are several threads including a couple started to avoid a 20 page long contentious thread.

 

As the mods would say "please use the search function before starting new threads"

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

What about his preferred OLine coach? 

 

Castillo needs to be the next one out the door.

 

This has been discussed in those numerous other threads too

[Tatonka68]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This.  I can get it when a thread is 20 pages long and contentious, but there are several threads including a couple started to avoid a 20 page long contentious thread.

 

As the mods would say "please use the search function before starting new threads"

 

This has been discussed in those numerous other threads too

Thank you all mighty and all knowing one. I am humbled by your presence............................................................................................................

[ALLEN1QB]

I for one don't care how many threads we have here. Are we paying for them? I would rather have a new thread instead of searching through 100 pages so lets stop repeating we have a thread on that topic already geeeez. Back to your topic I can see them getting Bradford as well just please no Tyrod I like to gargle with mouthwash during the game Taylor. I don't think they will use all first 4 picks on D-line though we need a receiver bigtime to. Going to be an interesting offseason for sure. Go Bills  

Edited January 16, 2018 by PIP

[MiltonWaddams]

Bradford is a good QB.... just way too fragile. If the plan is to play a vet 3 games then turn the position over to Peterman, and acquire a back-up to him as the vet is on IR the rest of the season, Bradford is the best man for the job. I'll make the assumption that is not the plan.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

Thank you all mighty and all knowing one. I am humbled by your presence............................................................................................................

 

Please don't slip and cut yourself in that Sar Chasm.

 

Seriously, one of the reasons this has been a very good fan board for so long has been community standards that are largely self-enforced.  Those include limiting the number of threads discussing a single topic, being reasonably civil to each other, and trying to encourage knowledgeable discussion.  Obviously not perfect, but when you go look at fan boards where these standards have not existed for years (if they ever did) the difference is stark.

 

Maybe a year from now the community standards will be just as some say here: "I don't care, I don't wanna, and f*ck that".  And maybe some won't see that as a loss.

[BillsFan2313]

I agree, new threads are a non issue to me. Most threads with a lot of pages get derailed off topic anyways. I still think Beane is hell bent on finding a franchise QB in the draft, regardless if the hire was Daboll or anyone else. I like the idea of Bradford for a year (if he can stay healthy for once), and rookie sitting for a year. 

[Tatonka68]

Thread is more about QB than OC, so I thought it was worth a new thread as I believe new OC points the path they are taking in a QB.

[KDIGGZ]

maybe we can get Jalen Hurts next year and complete 5 passes per game.  we ran that kind of offense in high school.  exciting stuff!

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

maybe we can get Jalen Hurts next year and complete 5 passes per game.  we ran that kind of offense in high school.  exciting stuff!

I highly doubt Hurts was Daboll’s preference. He was already there, he didn’t recruit him. He had never had a primarily mobile/limited passer as his QB in the nfl and Mike Locksley designed the RPOs last year for that reason. 

[KDIGGZ]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I highly doubt Hurts was Daboll’s preference. He was already there, he didn’t recruit him. He had never had a primarily mobile/limited passer as his QB in the nfl and Mike Locksley designed the RPOs last year for that reason. 

i was being facetious

 

I don't like the hire because I wanted someone with a complex NFL level passing attack.  I realize we don't have the QB for that but I want to dream that we could find one.  Hopefully once they do we can get a new OC

[Sweats]

I think we can finally say goodbye to a mobile style QB.

 

I like to see a solid running game and a quick, short passing game, however, these days you gotta have a QB that can air it out and let his WR's make a play.

[Antonio]

47 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

What about his preferred OLine coach? 

 

Castillo needs to be the next one out the door.

 

Yeeeees please and he needs to take his boy Ducasse out of here with him.

 

[SlamnSam]

59 minutes ago, H2o said:

Not trying to be a d*ck, but I think this is being discussed in numerous other threads about Daboll, QB's, and his offensive scheme. 

When you start out with that statement you are basically saying you are a d*ck. Let the guy post as he wishes. Unless of course you have been designated the thread duplication D*ck.

 

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, Sweats said:

I think we can finally say goodbye to a mobile style QB.

 

I like to see a solid running game and a quick, short passing game, however, these days you gotta have a QB that can air it out and let his WR's make a play.

I agree, TT isn’t Daboll’s style of QB