Daboll's preferred offense and QB.

[ddaryl]

I prefer fresh threads over 20 page long reads myself...

 

I think we will grab a vet whom is a crap shoot right now until the tags are dolled outr.. We also will draft a QB.. Depending on which FA we pick up it oculd be a move up and grab a top QB sit where we are and grap one with out picks in the 1st or wait and pick up a day 2 or 3 guy who would comepte with Peterman to be the a possible successor.

 

I don't think anyone wants to keep their eggs in the Peterman basket alone..

[Tatonka68]

I don't think we trade for Alex Smith unless it's at garage sale prices, AJ McCarron is possible but same rules apply as to Alex Smith. Bradford should be cheap. I believe they are in on Petermen long term, as they played him in LA. And they did say they want a veteran presence in locker room so I doubt they would go with a rookie and Petermen, especially since the Bills made the playoffs this year. 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Tatonka68

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

Thread is more about QB than OC, so I thought it was worth a new thread as I believe new OC points the path they are taking in a QB.

 

Fair enough.  So to contribute, E-P offenses have been run successfully with quite a range of quarterbacks.  Belicheck may (not sure) be the first who recognized its potential to support a high powered, sophisticated passing game, and it's evolved during Brady's 16 yr tenure from a run-first (or balanced run-pass) offense to what it is today (actually, it seems to vary cyclically depending on their current RBs and WR).

 

The Steelers (since 2004) and Panthers (since 2013) are two other successful, prominent examples of teams running E-P systems, as were the Giants (2004-2013) during some of Eli Manning's most successful years (5 playoff appearances, 2 SB wins).

 

I think the point is, it's a system that can be run successfully with a number of different styles of QB play, from classic pocket passer to guy who can run.

 

I wouldn't expect the offensive system to affect their draft choices too much, but if they want a vet to anchor the QB room for a rookie, I would expect them to look for a vet who has had some success in an EP system (if they want the vet to be "the man", I think they'd just look for a guy who's still mentally flexible)

 

Cousins and Smith have played (afaik) entirely in WC systems. 

 

 

30 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

i was being facetious

 

I don't like the hire because I wanted someone with a complex NFL level passing attack.  I realize we don't have the QB for that but I want to dream that we could find one.  Hopefully once they do we can get a new OC

 

Erm....most of Daboll's experience in the NFL is with New England.  If they don't run a complex NFL level passing attack, who does?

[KDIGGZ]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Erm....most of Daboll's experience in the NFL is with New England.  If they don't run a complex NFL level passing attack, who does?

as the TE coach, pretty much the lowest spot on the offensive totem pole besides the guys they pay to deflate the footballs

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I agree, TT isn’t Daboll’s style of QB

 

It actually occurred to me that one argument underpinning the Dennison hire was a decision to renegotiate TT's contract. 

The (paper-based) logic may have been, he's been in a WCO system his entire career, let's give him a WCO coordinator who has worked with him before as his "best chance" and see what he's got.  On paper, it wasn't an illogical notion.

 

Keep in mind that E-P has the flexibility to adjust from being a run-heavy to a pass-heavy offense and that the Panthers run it with Newton.

 

That said, I would be very sad if we don't make a serious play to upgrade at QB, and if you want a backup/bit player who can fill in any time you generally pick him to already know your system or have some experience in similar.

 

6 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

as the TE coach, pretty much the lowest spot on the offensive totem pole besides the guys they pay to deflate the footballs

 

I guess that types out as a great 'sound bite' but in New England, I'm not sure that's true.  Who is the second most important player on the team, and is he a bright bulb who can coach himself, or is he the kind of guy who probably takes some coaching?  But the point is, Daboll's major experience is with an E-P system implemented as a high-powered passing attack.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Coach Tuesday]

31 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

as the TE coach, pretty much the lowest spot on the offensive totem pole besides the guys they pay to deflate the footballs

 

You're such a bipolar poster - at times you're amazing, at other times we get garbage like this.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Coach Tuesday

[Rubes]

36 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

as the TE coach, pretty much the lowest spot on the offensive totem pole besides the guys they pay to deflate the footballs

 

Mark Gaughan's article would argue pretty nicely against this perspective, as have other articles.

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Rubes

[Coach Tuesday]

Just now, Rubes said:

 

Mark Gaughan's article would argue pretty nicely against this perspective, as have other articles.

 

 

Such a ridiculous comment he made.  The TE coach in New England is by no means at the bottom rung of the ladder, and in any event there is a mountain of evidence that Belichick viewed Daboll as integral.

[KDIGGZ]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

You're such a bipolar poster - at times you're amazing, at other times we get garbage like this.

the truth is like that unfortunately.  when people agree with it they are ok but when it goes against the grain then people get upset.  i have to post my true feelings so sometimes it's going to rub people the wrong way.  sometimes the truth hurts and it's unfortunate because i love this team.  i posted similar things when they hired Dennison and we saw how that turned out.  Dennison was the assistant to the guy with the mediocre offense, a system in which Tyrod was not suited for.  it was pretty obvious what the outcome would be.  Tyrod would actually be better with Daboll but we are getting rid of him.  I see Daboll as a bridge OC until we get a real QB, at which point we can then hopefully implement a real NFL passing attack, so it is what it is until then i guess.  i have very low expectations for this offense in 2018 as a result

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

the truth is like that unfortunately.  when people agree with it they are ok but when it goes against the grain then people get upset.  i have to post my true feelings so sometimes it's going to rub people the wrong way.  sometimes the truth hurts and it's unfortunate because i love this team.  i posted similar things when they hired Dennison and we saw how that turned out.  Dennison was the assistant to the guy with the mediocre offense, a system in which Tyrod was not suited for.  it was pretty obvious what the outcome would be.  Tyrod would actually be better with Daboll but we are getting rid of him.  I see Daboll as a bridge OC until we get a real QB, at which point we can then hopefully implement a real NFL passing attack, so it is what it is until then i guess.  i have very low expectations for this offense in 2018 as a result

Why?

[Coach Tuesday]

2 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

the truth is like that unfortunately.  when people agree with it they are ok but when it goes against the grain then people get upset.  i have to post my true feelings so sometimes it's going to rub people the wrong way.  sometimes the truth hurts and it's unfortunate because i love this team.  i posted similar things when they hired Dennison and we saw how that turned out.  Dennison was the assistant to the guy with the mediocre offense, a system in which Tyrod was not suited for.  it was pretty obvious what the outcome would be.  Tyrod would actually be better with Daboll but we are getting rid of him.  I see Daboll as a bridge OC until we get a real QB, at which point we can then hopefully implement a real NFL passing attack, so it is what it is until then i guess.  i have very low expectations for this offense in 2018 as a result

 

No doubt the guy may faceplant.  But it gives me hope that he is a grinder who understands what all of the positions are supposed to be doing, has focused on QB development, is happy to be in Buffalo, and (in theory) will adapt his scheme to the personnel.  Let's just wait and see what the results are?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

the truth is like that unfortunately.  when people agree with it they are ok but when it goes against the grain then people get upset.  i have to post my true feelings so sometimes it's going to rub people the wrong way.  sometimes the truth hurts and it's unfortunate because i love this team.  i posted similar things when they hired Dennison and we saw how that turned out.  Dennison was the assistant to the guy with the mediocre offense, a system in which Tyrod was not suited for.  it was pretty obvious what the outcome would be.  Tyrod would actually be better with Daboll but we are getting rid of him.  I see Daboll as a bridge OC until we get a real QB, at which point we can then hopefully implement a real NFL passing attack, so it is what it is until then i guess.  i have very low expectations for this offense in 2018 as a result

 

Truth.  You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

Please defend the "truth" of the statement "Tyrod would actually be better with Daboll" aside from the generic, a QB with a limited specific skill set will be better with an OC who will tailor the offense to his talents than with one who will not (or can not)

 

[fridge]

21 hours ago, jr1 said:

the Bills used this multiple times already https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Patriots_strategy#NFL_teams_that_used_the_Erhardt-Perkins_offense

 

Shhh. Let them think we’re getting something shiny and new.

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, fridge said:

 

Shhh. Let them think we’re getting something shiny and new.

Not sure what you mean...how shiny and new is any offensive system? It’s either WCO, E-P or Air Coryelle conceptually. Every offense is rooted in one of these three. Then it is developed from there around scheme and personnel. spread concepts getting mixed in from college offenses are the new wave, but no one is going to run a true college spread in the nfl because you can’t feasibly run the QB the much. 

Edited January 16, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[H2o]

1 hour ago, SlamnSam said:

When you start out with that statement you are basically saying you are a d*ck. Let the guy post as he wishes. Unless of course you have been designated the thread duplication D*ck.

 

You know what they say about opinions and what they are likened too?  .............That time, maybe that time I was being a bit of a sarcastic d*ck. 

[26CornerBlitz]

23 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

1-15: Joshua Chatham, Roll Bama Roll, Talks about Brian Daboll with Sal Capaccio (13:08)

Really good interview from yesterday that gives excellent insight into Daboll's season as Saban's OC at Bama.

 

2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

1-16: Soren Petro of WHB 810 AM in Kansas City with Howard and Jeremy on Brian Daboll (10:40)

Another excellent interview with Petro going in-depth about Daboll's time in KC as the OC wrt scheme and personnel.  He also gave excellent insight into Alex Smith regarding what kind of QB he is and how much he's worth with respect to trade value/draft picks.

 

Additional insight into Daboll from the pinned thread. 

[KDIGGZ]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

Why?

in Dennison's system it is all about footwork.  1-2-3 throw.  there's no improvisation or guess work.  the guy breaks at the same time your back foot plants and you are throwing before you see he is open.  Tyrod is completely incapable of running that type of offense because 1) poor footwork 2) needs to see the receiver open before he is willing to throw.  Tyrod is like a backyard QB who wants to scramble around and make big plays when all you need is the simple play.  it was never going to work.

 

In Daboll's system, at least at Bama, they do a lot of power read.  Off that you can run play action and roll outs.  You are reading the opposite side backer/end and if he gets sucked inside there's a lot you can do off of that including option or waggle.  Tyrod prefers to be out of the pocket so 1) he can see 2) he can attack the line of scrimmage.  by rolling out or moving the pocket he is in his comfort zone to make plays.  The passing tree combos are also very basic and leaves a lot open for improvisation.  It's not timing based and there's only a few concepts to learn.  It was a much better system for Tyrod to be in but now he's going bye bye

33 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Truth.  You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

Please defend the "truth" of the statement "Tyrod would actually be better with Daboll" aside from the generic, a QB with a limited specific skill set will be better with an OC who will tailor the offense to his talents than with one who will not (or can not)

 

please see the above.  i've run different styles of both and at the very least have been taught the basics of them all

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

in Dennison's system it is all about footwork.  1-2-3 throw.  there's no improvisation or guess work.  the guy breaks at the same time your back foot plants and you are throwing before you see he is open.  Tyrod is completely incapable of running that type of offense because 1) poor footwork 2) needs to see the receiver open before he is willing to throw.  Tyrod is like a backyard QB who wants to scramble around and make big plays when all you need is the simple play.  it was never going to work.

 

In Daboll's system, at least at Bama, they do a lot of power read.  Off that you can run play action and roll outs.  You are reading the opposite side backer/end and if he gets sucked inside there's a lot you can do off of that including option or waggle.  Tyrod prefers to be out of the pocket so 1) he can see 2) he can attack the line of scrimmage.  by rolling out or moving the pocket he is in his comfort zone to make plays.  The passing tree combos are also very basic and leaves a lot open for improvisation.  It's not timing based and there's only a few concepts to learn.  It was a much better system for Tyrod to be in but now he's going bye bye

please see the above.  i've run different styles of both and at the very least have been taught the basics of them all

 

Thanks, good explanation, and appreciate it.  Not sure Daboll will run what he did in Bama, here.

 

It doesn't justify claiming Daboll as TE coach in NE was just above ball boy, represents some kind of truth.  That word still doesn't mean what you think it means in that context.

 

I don't think it's a "done deal" that Tyrod goes bye-bye.  I think it depends upon what our real choices at QB roll out to be.  Maybe one attraction of Daboll is, if the choice of QB turns out to be late-1st-round rookie and TT dueling with low-tier FA, they feel he can make something with that.

58 minutes ago, Rubes said:

 

Mark Gaughan's article would argue pretty nicely against this perspective, as have other articles.

 

 

It does discourage me when I click on a nice juicy link and run into a paywall.  Alas I refuse to pay for the privilege of reading Gleason and Sullivan's stuff, whatever good stuff they may have besides.

 

 

[KDIGGZ]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Thanks, good explanation, and appreciate it.  Not sure Daboll will run what he did in Bama, here.

 

It doesn't justify claiming Daboll as TE coach in NE was just above ball boy, represents some kind of truth.  That word still doesn't mean what you think it means in that context.

 

I don't think it's a "done deal" that Tyrod goes bye-bye.  I think it depends upon what our real choices at QB roll out to be.  Maybe one attraction of Daboll is, if the choice of QB turns out to be late-1st-round rookie and TT dueling with low-tier FA, they feel he can make something with that.

Daboll learned what he knows from Charlie Weis and has limited experience and success.  I'm not sure why they didn't just hire Charlie Weis. Belichick and Saban are butt buddies so it made sense when Daboll ended up there and was obviously not their first choice as OC but then Kiffin left (on bad terms) and they needed someone quick and Daboll had NFL experience so it was an obvious choice.  I don't see him as any kind of great up and coming coordinator though and he has yet to show any kind of creativity or genius.  I'm not too thrilled but again we don't have a QB anyhow so I understand why they wanted a power run game coordinator and they will figure out the passing part later

[YoloinOhio]

22 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

in Dennison's system it is all about footwork.  1-2-3 throw.  there's no improvisation or guess work.  the guy breaks at the same time your back foot plants and you are throwing before you see he is open.  Tyrod is completely incapable of running that type of offense because 1) poor footwork 2) needs to see the receiver open before he is willing to throw.  Tyrod is like a backyard QB who wants to scramble around and make big plays when all you need is the simple play.  it was never going to work.

 

In Daboll's system, at least at Bama, they do a lot of power read.  Off that you can run play action and roll outs.  You are reading the opposite side backer/end and if he gets sucked inside there's a lot you can do off of that including option or waggle.  Tyrod prefers to be out of the pocket so 1) he can see 2) he can attack the line of scrimmage.  by rolling out or moving the pocket he is in his comfort zone to make plays.  The passing tree combos are also very basic and leaves a lot open for improvisation.  It's not timing based and there's only a few concepts to learn.  It was a much better system for Tyrod to be in but now he's going bye bye

please see the above.  i've run different styles of both and at the very least have been taught the basics of them all

Daboll was able to adjust to Hurts out of necessity with the help of Locksley, but that’s not his system and not what he wants to do. Hurts never developed as a passer with that approach and it only works until you meet a good defense with on par athletes. 

 

Could Daboll get more out of TT than Denison did? Possibly, but they want more than what they got when they had Roman/ Lynn trying that. It’s time to rip the band aid off and move on. I highly doubt Daboll wants to work with TT, but, I’ve been wrong before and may be again.

Edited January 16, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[KDIGGZ]

9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Daboll was able to adjust to Hurts out of necessity with the help of Locksley, but that’s not his system and not what he wants to do. Hurts never developed as a passer with that approach and it only works until you meet a good defense with on par athletes. 

 

Could Daboll get more out of TT than Denison did? Possibly, but they want more than what they got when they had Roman/ Lynn trying that. It’s time to rip the band aid off and move on. I highly doubt Daboll wants to work with TT, but, I’ve been wrong before and may be again.

Right, I was just saying that this would have been a better OC for Tyrod but now we are moving on from him so I was hoping for someone with more of a history of working with quality QB's at the NFL level and have had some kind of success.

 

I'll say this about Daboll.  If he is such a great up and coming OC then why wouldn't Belichick want him back in NE?  They are losing perhabs their entire offensive coaching staff this offseason.  Don' t you think Belichick would bring him back to NE if he was so great?

[Cruiserplayer]

5 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

Right, I was just saying that this would have been a better OC for Tyrod but now we are moving on from him so I was hoping for someone with more of a history of working with quality QB's at the NFL level and have had some kind of success.

 

I'll say this about Daboll.  If he is such a great up and coming OC then why wouldn't Belichick want him back in NE?  They are losing perhabs their entire offensive coaching staff this offseason.  Don' t you think Belichick would bring him back to NE if he was so great?

According to some Daboll was next in line for O.C. https://www.patspulpit.com/2018/1/15/16891128/bills-hire-former-patriots-tight-ends-coach-brian-daboll-to-be-offensive-coordinator

[JohnBonhamRocks]

7 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

Right, I was just saying that this would have been a better OC for Tyrod but now we are moving on from him so I was hoping for someone with more of a history of working with quality QB's at the NFL level and have had some kind of success.

 

I'll say this about Daboll.  If he is such a great up and coming OC then why wouldn't Belichick want him back in NE?  They are losing perhabs their entire offensive coaching staff this offseason.  Don' t you think Belichick would bring him back to NE if he was so great?

 

I have no link, but have seen over and over on these boards that he was in line to replace McDaniels. Edit: yeah, that ^

Edited January 16, 2018 by JohnBonhamRocks

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

Right, I was just saying that this would have been a better OC for Tyrod but now we are moving on from him so I was hoping for someone with more of a history of working with quality QB's at the NFL level and have had some kind of success.

 

I'll say this about Daboll.  If he is such a great up and coming OC then why wouldn't Belichick want him back in NE?  They are losing perhabs their entire offensive coaching staff this offseason.  Don' t you think Belichick would bring him back to NE if he was so great?

Rumors are stating he wanted to bring him back.

[KDIGGZ]

well then if he chose us over the Pats then he's an idiot so i have even further concerns! 

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

well then if he chose us over the Pats then he's an idiot so i have even further concerns! 

 

He's from WNY and went to college at Rochester.  

[TigerJ]

What I get from the article on Erhardt-Perkins is that it doesn't dictate reliance on either the running game or the passing game dominance.  In essence, it provides a framework for organizing and communicating plays, which are mostly the same plays in the other two systems (Coryell and West Coast).  As a framework, Grantland maintains it has an advantage in that is simplifies understanding and communication, and is thus easier for QBs to master.  So depending on the personnel Daboll is working with, he could in theory have a run heavy offense or a pass happy offense, or anything in between.

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

He's from WNY and went to college at Rochester.  

He is originally from Ontario but went to HS at St. Francis. I think a huge thing is that his family already lives in OP. I’m pretty sure he is divorced and re-married but all his kids are in Buffalo. 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

He is originally from Ontario but went to HS at St. Francis. I think a huge thing is that his family already lives in OP. I’m pretty sure he is divorced and re-married but all his kids are in Buffalo. 

 

So he probably drinks Molson?

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So he probably drinks Molson?

We need to find out 

 

Btw he was (maybe still is) best friends with Brian Polian in HS, who is ST coach at ND. More insight to Irish draft prospects... (Josh Adams is on my radar)

Edited January 16, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[KDIGGZ]

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

He's from WNY and went to college at Rochester.  

if that news comes out that he chose us over NE i'll definitely feel more confident about this.  it's a nice story that the local boy comes home to coach his favorite team

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

We need to find out 

 

Btw he was (maybe still is) best friends with Brian Polian in HS, who is ST coach at ND. More insight to Irish draft prospects... (Josh Adams is on my radar)

 

Adams is a big RB correct?

 

Do you think Mason Rudolph is a Daboll type of QB?

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Adams is a big RB correct?

 

Do you think Mason Rudolph is a Daboll type of QB?

Yes and yes. 

[Hurricane]

14 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yes and yes. 

Alex Smith, Kirk Cousins?

[SoTier]

23 hours ago, Logic said:

Agreed. It would be nice to see a 2018 passing offense rather than a 1998 passing offense.

 

The Bills fielded a 1958 passing offense this past season IMO ... I don't think they had any 50+ yard passing plays in the regular season.   I don't need or want the Bills QB to throw 40 times a game but I would like to see a somewhat robust passing game that can execute chunk plays with average success.  I think that as long as the Bills play in an open stadium in WNY, they have to build their offense around power running because there are too many instances late in the season when even a 5 yard pass may be an adventure.  That doesn't mean that they should abandon the downfield passing game as they essentially did in 2017.

 

I will give Daboll the benefit of the doubt.  If he can fix the OL so that it can play at least as well as it did in 2016, that would be a major step forward IMO.  The Bills definitely need a new WR corps outside of Benjamin and Jones  (and maybe Jones, too).  I think the TEs are good enough.  The Bills need a younger RB to groom to take over from Shady. 

 

I was a big Tyrod Taylor fan but I've concluded that he's simply not good enough to be a good NFL starter.  In the right offense, I think he can be modestly successful as he was in 2015 and 2016, but I would hope the Bills are aiming higher than that.  Unless/until they have a QB "in hand" through either trade, FA signing or the draft, the Bills need to keep Taylor on the roster.  The Bills won't be able to come up with a decent backup QB -- a Stanton or a Foles -- for much less than they'll pay for Taylor in 2018.  Keeping Taylor enables them to take a long, hard look at the QBs in the draft, and maybe take a chance on a guy in the 2nd round who's more of a project. They don't need to do a reprise of 2013 when they cut Fitzpatrick loose early, which forced them into signing "Glass" Kolb and drafting Manuel. 

[YoloinOhio]

7 minutes ago, Hurricane said:

Alex Smith, Kirk Cousins?

Either one would work imo... both are WCO QBs now but WCO and E-P share the same main principles of the offense - shorter passing game as a primary way they move the chains and control the ball. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Cruiserplayer said:

According to some Daboll was next in line for O.C. https://www.patspulpit.com/2018/1/15/16891128/bills-hire-former-patriots-tight-ends-coach-brian-daboll-to-be-offensive-coordinator

 

It's entirely possible that Daboll felt he was being strung along and got fed up waiting.  It could have gone like this:

2014: "stay with the organization, Brian.  McDaniels will leave for a HC gig after the SB and you'll get your shot"  Daboll: "thanks, Bill"

2015: "stay with the organization, Brian  McDaniels needs to build his resume next year with another win, and you'll get your shot"  Daboll: "I understand Bill"

2016: "stay with the organization, Brian, McDaniels will leave for a HC gig after the SB and you'll get your shot"  Daboll: "Eff waiting, I have a resume to build of my own"

 

Of course the question was whether it was then "Bye Felicia!" or "Good luck, and we'll keep you in mind when we have an opening"

 

[26CornerBlitz]

1-16: Matt Waldman, Rookie Scouting Portfolio, Talks College QBs with Mike Schopp (18:50)

 

Really good conversation with Waldman who also talks Daboll along with 2018 QB Draft Prospects/Veteran QB Options.

Edited January 17, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[gobills1212]

Quality post. 

[Turk71]

Draft a qb and get Smith, then get a speedster like Gabriel. Draft a stud lb and use those other picks to improve both lines and depth. That would be a big improvement. 

  So glad Dennison is gone and I feel good about this new OC. 5 SB rings and a cfb NC, I bet he has learned a lot. Be great to finally be good on both sides of the ball.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Turk71