hondo in seattle Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said: I get your point. The 9ers have arguably the best QBs ever. Try a team like Pittsburgh, Bears, Lions, Browns, and you see long stretches of mediocrity under center. Vaild point. The 49ers are an atypical example. But I don't think the Bills Top Five list is going to compare well with many clubs. Let's use a team you suggested. Here are the guys I'd put on Cleveland's Top Five list: Otto Graham, Brian Sipe, Bernie Kosar, Time Couch and then maybe Bill Nelson. Someone else might put Frank Ryan, Milt Plum, Mike Phipps, Vinny Testeverde or Don Strock in their Top Five. In Buffalo, we have trouble finding five QBs to put on our Top Five list. Edited December 9, 2017 by hondo in seattle typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Dan Darraugh didn't make your list? ....dammit....I just wet myself............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 36 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: Anyone that puts Daryle Lamonica in their top QB’s that ever played in Buffalo is just trying to be cute like they actually know something. The guy completed 42 percent of his passes and had 16 TD’s and 23 INT’s. Let’s end the silly, stupid charade right now. Daryle Lamonica sucked as a Buffalo Bill. SUCKED. You got to take into consideration that the AFL in the mid 60's passing had those numbers. Most QBs had around a 50% completion percentage. Most had more INTs than TDs. It was a completely different game. Jack Kemp's career numbers (AFL NFL) was 114 TDs vs 183 INTs. Lamonica started only 4 games and won them all. He also only came in when Kemp was playing horrible and had a lot of 4th quarter comebacks. I would of loved to see Kemp go to the Raiders in '67 and Lamonica staying Buffalo. For all of the Oldtimers: Imagine a Bills Message Board in the 60s! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: You got to take into consideration that the AFL in the mid 60's passing had those numbers. Most QBs had around a 50% completion percentage. Most had more INTs than TDs. It was a completely different game. Jack Kemp's career numbers (AFL NFL) was 114 TDs vs 183 INTs. Lamonica started only 4 games and won them all. He also only came in when Kemp was playing horrible and had a lot of 4th quarter comebacks. I would of loved to see Kemp go to the Raiders in '67 and Lamonica staying Buffalo. For all of the Oldtimers: Imagine a Bills Message Board in the 60s! There would not have been enough electrons in the universe to handle the Kemp vs. Lamonica posts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 29 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said: I get your point. The 9ers have arguably the best QBs ever. Try a team like Pittsburgh, Bears, Lions, Browns, and you see long stretches of mediocrity under center. It’s got to be the Colts. Johnny U, Morrall, Burt Jones, Peyton, Luck, Elway if he in any way counts which I’m sure he doesn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 21 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Dan Darraugh didn't make your list? Darraugh was an interesting prospect coming out of William and Mary and undrafted. He was excellent for the Bills in camp and the pre-season, injured his shoulder, and became a footnote. He certainly shouldn't be considered as a bottom five guy as he never truly had the opportunity to prove himself. My bottom five favorite is Losman, a disaster as a quarterback and first round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Just now, Formerly Allan in MD said: Darraugh was an interesting prospect coming out of William and Mary and undrafted. He was excellent for the Bills in camp and the pre-season, injured his shoulder, and became a footnote. He certainly shouldn't be considered as a bottom five guy as he never truly had the opportunity to prove himself. My bottom five favorite is Losman, a disaster as a quarterback and first round pick. Yeah Darraugh wasn't horrible. Hobert to me was the worst. JP had the talent but could never handle the mental aspects of the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: There would not have been enough electrons in the universe to handle the Kemp vs. Lamonica posts. Just thinking about it is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: You got to take into consideration that the AFL in the mid 60's passing had those numbers. Most QBs had around a 50% completion percentage. Most had more INTs than TDs. It was a completely different game. Jack Kemp's career numbers (AFL NFL) was 114 TDs vs 183 INTs. Lamonica started only 4 games and won them all. He also only came in when Kemp was playing horrible and had a lot of 4th quarter comebacks. I would of loved to see Kemp go to the Raiders in '67 and Lamonica staying Buffalo. For all of the Oldtimers: Imagine a Bills Message Board in the 60s! Yes, the 60s was a great era, with Golden Wheels, dangerous Dan, the cookie, and Sestak among others. Would have been a great board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: You got to take into consideration that the AFL in the mid 60's passing had those numbers. Most QBs had around a 50% completion percentage. Most had more INTs than TDs. It was a completely different game. Jack Kemp's career numbers (AFL NFL) was 114 TDs vs 183 INTs. Lamonica started only 4 games and won them all. He also only came in when Kemp was playing horrible and had a lot of 4th quarter comebacks. I would of loved to see Kemp go to the Raiders in '67 and Lamonica staying Buffalo. For all of the Oldtimers: Imagine a Bills Message Board in the 60s! http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=P&yr=1966&lg=AFL This says different. Not to mention, the Bills won 2 titles on the back of a great defense.....not Jack Kemp. Edited December 9, 2017 by Binghamton Beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: Vaild point. The 49ers are an atypical example. But I don't think the Bills Top Five list is going to compare well with many clubs. Let's use a team you suggested. Here are the guys I'd put on Cleveland's Top Five list: Otto Graham, Brian Sipe, Bernie Kosar, Time Couch and then maybe Bill Nelson. Someone else might put Frank Ryan, Milt Plum, Mike Phipps, Vinny Testeverde or Don Strock in their Top Five. In Buffalo, we have trouble finding five QBs to put on our Top Five list. I wouldn't put Tim Couch is in the top 5 it's not an impressive list with a whopping 73.2 qb rating with 64 TD's and 67 INT's in four years. Rob Johnson and JP Losman had better stats. Edited December 9, 2017 by Doc Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1964_AFL/passing.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 6 hours ago, Elite Poster said: Travesty that Jeff Tuel or Peterman didn't make this list. Brian Brohm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) So...........Alex Van Pelt, Holcomb, Trent Edwards, JP Losman, Tyrod Taylor, EJ Manuel, Fitz, Cassel, Rob Johnson didn't make the list? Jesus, that list is a whole lot of fail going on there. Well, its no wonder we havent sniffed the playoffs in 17 yrs. Edited December 9, 2017 by Sweats 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Johnny green, Kay Stephenson, dan daraugh, james harris and Dennis Shaw, my top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Y’all are suspect with your fancy stats and arguments. Let’s see here..hmmmm...who brought us our last winning season during the past 17 yrs and threw for 3800 extrapolated yards?? I’ll sit back and wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: Y’all are suspect with your fancy stats and arguments. Let’s see here..hmmmm...who brought us our last winning season during the past 17 yrs and threw for 3800 extrapolated yards?? I’ll sit back and wait. Place him on the wall next to Orton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mileena Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Rob Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Fan Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 19 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: Y’all are suspect with your fancy stats and arguments. Let’s see here..hmmmm...who brought us our last winning season during the past 17 yrs and threw for 3800 extrapolated yards?? I’ll sit back and wait. Forgot to mention as well he would have brought the playoffs that year if he started the first four games 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: Place him on the wall next to Orton Orton is the answer. No respect? What gives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 17 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: Place him on the wall next to Orton ....would that be men's urinal or women's urinal Wall?........... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: Dennis Shaw, pre-injury, would be a lock. If you say Losman, it's a comedy thread. I don't remember Shaw's injury. I remember ROY season and then downhill fast. I'm wondering how many people lauding Ferguson actually saw him play. I had absolutely no faith that he would ever come through when we needed him. He certainly had his good moments but he made so many awful, ill-timed interceptions that I can't separate those plays from his good ones even to this day. Great talent, good guy, competitor and all the skills you need, but lacked the intangibles needed to be successful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, klos63 said: I don't remember Shaw's injury. I remember ROY season and then downhill fast. He couldn't throw the ball 40 yards is what I remember about him. Top 5 is pretty easy for me 1.Kelly 2. Ferguson 3. Kemp 4. Fitzpatrick 5. Flutie 5a. Bledsoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Kelly Fergy Bledsoe Fitz Orton. No one else belongs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Helpmenow said: Johnny green, Kay Stephenson, dan daraugh, james harris and Dennis Shaw, my top Good old Johnny Green. They couldn't figure out why he threw all those interceptions until they checked his eyes and determined he was color blind. 58 minutes ago, klos63 said: I don't remember Shaw's injury. I remember ROY season and then downhill fast. I'm wondering how many people lauding Ferguson actually saw him play. I had absolutely no faith that he would ever come through when we needed him. He certainly had his good moments but he made so many awful, ill-timed interceptions that I can't separate those plays from his good ones even to this day. Great talent, good guy, competitor and all the skills you need, but lacked the intangibles needed to be successful. I believe it was his shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 5 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: Another team's list might look something like this: Joe Montana, Y.A. Tittle, Steve Young, John Brodie, Jeff Garcia. Or how about Tobin Rote, Bart Starr, Dan Majkowski, Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 6 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: It’s to small of a sample size but Orton is going to be the least appreciated qb in Bills history. That 12 game stretch that he played was the best team of the drought. The guy came off the street with almost no time in the offense, zero running game and a tough schedule only to put up some of the best numbers any Bills qb ever has. If he got that full season in, we were going to make the playoffs. If he got 1 more year in that offense, who knows what we would look like today. Orton wasn’t here long enough to be mentioned with those other guys on that list, but he was a better QB then anyone after Kelly IMO. That was the closest thing we have had to a legit NFL passing offense since real early Bledsoe. He just retired, he didn't care about having any more years. He was dropping off big time towards the end of the year. Just didn't want to play anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Kelly Holcomb JP Losman Rob Johnson Jeff Tuel Brian Brohm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherman Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Kelly Kemp Flutie Ferguson Kelly was obviously one but Kemp two because he won a championship. I wasn’t alive at the time but he deserves it based on that. Flute because although he was only here for a season or two when the Bills threaten to move to Canada they signed him, had a ton of people sign up for season tickets from Canada and that shut the front office up. He and Ferguson are the only other playoff QBs I remember in my 43 years. Flutie gets the nod for the Canadian influences. There doesn’t deserve to be a 5th greatest QB. Frank Reich was a backup and maybe the best ever at that but still a backup. Sad and we haven’t had a real QB since Kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF4LOU Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 What about Bruce Matheson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) Great thread but depressing. Can't wait for the day I can argue with people on here of who is/was better in a Bills uni. Kelly or Bills QB X? Seeing some of the lists is just flat out sad and what has held this team back hardcore for so many years. Edited December 10, 2017 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 16 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: according to my dad, Marangi was better than Fergy, just never got a fair shake Father knows best. 16 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: Maybe this isn't entirely fair but here's how I remember Flutie... Flutie would flat out suck for three quarters. But our D was so strong in those days that they'd keep the game close. Then Flutie would do something athletically superhuman in the game in the fourth quarter to put the Bills on top. Great! But why did Flutie have to suck the first three quarters? The D won games in that era, not Dougie. Fellow Hiesman winner Roger Staubach used to do this too. Drove us nuts sometimes. The thing I remember about Flutie was winning. And the Defense was unable to win very many games with Rob Johnson in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Joe was a long term solid QB, and easily surpassed by Jim, and the only other qualifier for this list for me since 1973. All other are incomplete or worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Kelly Fergie Kemp Bledsoe Fluite and this was a good exercise , what a sad list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 22 hours ago, RochesterLifer said: I think Flutie may be the most overrated QB in our history. He did very little, but represent himself well. I would drop him from this list and put Frank Reich at #5. While just a back up, he had performances that changed our history. 1. Jim Kelly 2. Jack Kemp 3. Joe Ferguson (does not get the respect he deserves) 4. Daryle Lamonica 5. Frank Reich I agree..Doug was overrated. I would have put Bledsoe above Frank. The list shows that we have had crappy QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 During its existance in both the AFL and NFL, only four QB's have won playoff games: Kelly, Flutie, Ferguson, and Kemp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harv shitz Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 23 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: according to my dad, Marangi was better than Fergy, just never got a fair shake I was still pretty young, 10 or 11, When Gary Marangi played. What your father said brings back a lot of memories. I remember the debate about the two, Marangi and Ferguson, and remember when Fergy struggled, there was a lot of people calling for Marangi. Marangi did have some very good games, as did Fergy. Personally, I always thought Fergy was a great quarterback, but was saddled with piss poor coaching pretty much the whole time he was here, until the end when Chuck Knox came to town. Hard for me to pick a top five, as in 45 years of watching this team, I remember two good ones: Jim Kelly, Joe Ferguson. I remember some god awful ones: Joe Dufek, Vince Ferregamo, Billy Joe Hobert, to mention a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 I'll nominate Billy Joe Neckbert for the worst list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mileena Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 1 hour ago, vorpma said: During its existance in both the AFL and NFL, only four QB's have won playoff games: Kelly, Flutie, Ferguson, and Kemp. Add Rob Johnson to that that list. Not his fault they lost to the Titans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 On 12/9/2017 at 9:40 AM, hondo in seattle said: Yikes. Marangi is on my list of five worst. Fergy is underrated by many because he wasn't very good at the beginning of his career when his main duty was to give the ball to OJ. And he wasn't very good at the end of his career when his skills were in decline. But there was a golden middle when he was one of the best QBs in the league. Just thinking of that golden middle, I would rate Fergy ahead of everyone except Kelly. But if we're cherry picking periods, Bledsoe's first half season with the Bills was excellent. Maybe this isn't entirely fair but here's how I remember Flutie... Flutie would flat out suck for three quarters. But our D was so strong in those days that they'd keep the game close. Then Flutie would do something athletically superhuman in the game in the fourth quarter to put the Bills on top. Great! But why did Flutie have to suck the first three quarters? The D won games in that era, not Dougie. Flutie is wildly overrated by most Bills fans. Mediocre QB at best with arguably the best defense the BIlls ever had, one season set a franchise record for lowest points scored against....imagine Tyrod Taylor with the defense we had for the first 7 games of the season, that was Flutie...except Tyrod has a stronger arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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