Zay Jones drops huge catch. <radio edit>

[Scott7975]

I'll say this. ZAY is/was choked up about the play. It's nice to have players that care about winning and care about letting their teammates down instead of players just going through the motions just to collect a paycheck.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Scott7975

[Buffalo716]

So are we giving Taylor a pass for the first 58 minutes because he made one throw that may or my not have been catch-able?

 

Well I never said I'm giving TT a pass for the other 58 minutes...

 

But that throw was 100% catchable and there is no denying that. I've seen that pass caught thousands of times in my life around football.

 

TT doesn't get a pass because he played really bad... but with 15 seconds left he did execute and gave us a real chance to win.

 

On to next week

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

How is this even a debate anymore? Everyone on the Bills is consoling ZJ...real NFL analysts know it was ZJ...the coaches are consoling ZJ...ZJ himself took responsibility...TT is consoling ZJ...former WR's are consoling ZJ...the only people blaming TT are the people here who revel in blaming TT for everything including the Presidential Election.

 

MOST IMPORTANTLY...its 10000000% clear on the tape that ZJ ran a sloppy route slightly off balance and got slightly out of position when the ball was already in the air and then got his head around late to look for it. The ONLY...this is not even up for debate...ONLY reason it was a "tough" catch attempt was because ZJ's struggles on his own route and his late spotting of the ball.

 

Anyone is free and clear to harshly judge the rest of the game, but geezus, put your agenda's aside and just accept the kid made a rookie unforced error and it cost us. I still feel he is going to be a good player, it happens. But we lost that game for a LOT of reasons, not just on the final play where we could have bailed ourselves out potentially.

 

OK, I'll bite.

 

Tyrod Taylor was hot garbage all day, until the final two minutes.

[bobobonators]

How is this even a debate anymore? Everyone on the Bills is consoling ZJ...real NFL analysts know it was ZJ...the coaches are consoling ZJ...ZJ himself took responsibility...TT is consoling ZJ...former WR's are consoling ZJ...the only people blaming TT are the people here who revel in blaming TT for everything including the Presidential Election.

 

MOST IMPORTANTLY...its 10000000% clear on the tape that ZJ ran a sloppy route slightly off balance and got slightly out of position when the ball was already in the air and then got his head around late to look for it. The ONLY...this is not even up for debate...ONLY reason it was a "tough" catch attempt was because ZJ's struggles on his own route and his late spotting of the ball.

 

Anyone is free and clear to harshly judge the rest of the game, but geezus, put your agenda's aside and just accept the kid made a rookie unforced error and it cost us. I still feel he is going to be a good player, it happens. But we lost that game for a LOT of reasons, not just on the final play where we could have bailed ourselves out potentially.

Yup

[Tenhigh]

 

OK, I'll bite.

 

Tyrod Taylor was hot garbage all day, until the final two minutes.

Did you even bother to read the post?

[Alphadawg7]

 

OK, I'll bite.

 

Tyrod Taylor was hot garbage all day, until the final two minutes.

 

I already said the prior 58 minutes go for it...all warranted and don't disagree the offense as a whole stunk. TT found no rhythm, play calling was terrible, clock management was poor, players dropped passes, McCoy had worse game as a Bill IMO as he missed multiple holes and running lanes due to dancing, and the OL was piss poor in all facets of the game yesterday.

 

But the ZJ play is indisputable on the kid and I still like the kid.

Did you even bother to read the post?

 

Ha...doesn't look like he did, but thats par for the course around here these days.

[bobobonators]

 

I already said the prior 58 minutes go for it...all warranted and don't disagree the offense as a whole stunk. TT found no rhythm, play calling was terrible, clock management was poor, players dropped passes, McCoy had worse game as a Bill IMO as he missed multiple holes and running lanes due to dancing, and the OL was piss poor in all facets of the game yesterday.

 

But the ZJ play is indisputable on the kid and I still like the kid.

 

 

Ha...doesn't look like he did, but thats par for the course around here these days.

Yup x2

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

I already said the prior 58 minutes go for it...all warranted and don't disagree the offense as a whole stunk. TT found no rhythm, play calling was terrible, clock management was poor, players dropped passes, McCoy had worse game as a Bill IMO as he missed multiple holes and running lanes due to dancing, and the OL was piss poor in all facets of the game yesterday.

 

But the ZJ play is indisputable on the kid and I still like the kid.

 

Ha...doesn't look like he did, but thats par for the course around here these days.

 

I think on a play like that, there's two points of possible failure, and both failed.

 

Shame, coulda stole a game. But if the offense was just merely BAD and scored 3 points in the first half, we'd be singing a different tune today.

[HappyDays]

 

OK, I'll bite.

 

Tyrod Taylor was hot garbage all day, until the final two minutes.

According to some posters on this board that should be considered a good day!

[r00tabaga]

So in other words, it was a perfect pass that should have been a game winning, length of the field, two minute drive - something Tyrod cannot do because he sucks.

And you don't have to be a part of the church to believe this.

 

OK, I'll bite.

 

Tyrod Taylor was hot garbage all day, until the final two minutes.

Last two drives were good. Give credit where it is due.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Did you even bother to read the post?

 

Probably in response to the "Anyone is free and clear to harshly judge the rest of the game" part.

 

Alpha's OP was spot on though.

 

I stand by my initial fault assignment of 75% to ZJ and 25% to TT.

[grb]

How is this even a debate anymore? Everyone on the Bills is consoling ZJ...real NFL analysts know it was ZJ...the coaches are consoling ZJ...ZJ himself took responsibility...TT is consoling ZJ...former WR's are consoling ZJ...the only people blaming TT are the people here who revel in blaming TT for everything including the Presidential Election.

 

MOST IMPORTANTLY...its 10000000% clear on the tape that ZJ ran a sloppy route slightly off balance and got slightly out of position when the ball was already in the air and then got his head around late to look for it. The ONLY...this is not even up for debate...ONLY reason it was a "tough" catch attempt was because ZJ's struggles on his own route and his late spotting of the ball.

 

Anyone is free and clear to harshly judge the rest of the game, but geezus, put your agenda's aside and just accept the kid made a rookie unforced error and it cost us. I still feel he is going to be a good player, it happens. But we lost that game for a LOT of reasons, not just on the final play where we could have bailed ourselves out potentially.

 

100% correct.

[r00tabaga]

This debate was settled like 32 pages ago.

[26CornerBlitz]

@MatthewFairburn

Zay Jones was running a corner route on that final play. Rick Dennison said there was a lack of execution on the throw and catch.

[dave mcbride]

More on why Jones screwed up, more or less -- https://www.buffalosportspage.com/final-play-throw-catch/ .

 

Read to the end.

[26CornerBlitz]

@JaySkurski

Rick Dennison says the blame, for lack of a better word, for the last play falling incomplete is shared by Tyrod Taylor and Zay Jones.

[dave mcbride]

 

I already said the prior 58 minutes go for it...all warranted and don't disagree the offense as a whole stunk. TT found no rhythm, play calling was terrible, clock management was poor, players dropped passes, McCoy had worse game as a Bill IMO as he missed multiple holes and running lanes due to dancing, and the OL was piss poor in all facets of the game yesterday.

 

But the ZJ play is indisputable on the kid and I still like the kid.

 

 

Ha...doesn't look like he did, but thats par for the course around here these days.

You're doing the lord's work here, AD.

[Captain Murica]

How is this even a debate anymore? Everyone on the Bills is consoling ZJ...real NFL analysts know it was ZJ...the coaches are consoling ZJ...ZJ himself took responsibility...TT is consoling ZJ...former WR's are consoling ZJ...the only people blaming TT are the people here who revel in blaming TT for everything including the Presidential Election.

 

MOST IMPORTANTLY...its 10000000% clear on the tape that ZJ ran a sloppy route slightly off balance and got slightly out of position when the ball was already in the air and then got his head around late to look for it. The ONLY...this is not even up for debate...ONLY reason it was a "tough" catch attempt was because ZJ's struggles on his own route and his late spotting of the ball.

 

Anyone is free and clear to harshly judge the rest of the game, but geezus, put your agenda's aside and just accept the kid made a rookie unforced error and it cost us. I still feel he is going to be a good player, it happens. But we lost that game for a LOT of reasons, not just on the final play where we could have bailed ourselves out potentially.

This is exactly how I saw it.

[Tenhigh]

 

@JaySkurski

Rick Dennison says the blame, for lack of a better word, for the last play falling incomplete is shared by Tyrod Taylor and Zay Jones.

 

Did he mention anything about his blame for the poorly called game?

[26CornerBlitz]

Did he mention anything about his blame for the poorly called game?

 

I'm sure he knows that he could have called a better game with more throws on 1st down.

[papazoid]

it hit BOTH his hands....it's 90% the recievers fault.

 

also, in the middle of his route, he fakes going to the post, in the process of rubbing his defender, they clip heels and he stumbles throwing the timing off.

[starrymessenger]

Probably in response to the "Anyone is free and clear to harshly judge the rest of the game" part.

 

Alpha's OP was spot on though.

 

I stand by my initial fault assignment of 75% to ZJ and 25% to TT.

 

Well although everybody has comfortably settled on Zay as the culprit, I agree that both players were responsible for the poor execution on that play. First of all it was an excellent playcall that worked beautifully except for the result. Dennison lined up Shady (our best player) outside of Zay along the sidelines. This absolutely required the CB (Bradbury?) to line up opposite him and pay close attention. Shady ran a sort of phoney curl but really just designed to hold up the corner and allow Zay to find open space behind him. The play worked beautifully. In effect Zay was covered (at least under) by a linebacker - Thomas Davis. Davis is great but thats a matchup you absolutely want. The corner loses a step as he flinches just long enuf to free Zay into the space behind him. Note the CB was playing the sideline so presumably the sideline area behind him (and away from any safety moving over to cover from the middle of the field) was the area targeted by the pass. This was a designed play with Zay as the first and probably only read imo. Having to avoid the safety confirms to me that the route called was a corner route. Clearly the plan therefore was for Zay to cut it to the sideline (corner) which is what he did. To me Tyrod threw a hybrid pass somewhere between a fly and a corner pattern. It wasn't terrible but I have to wonder whether it was supposed to land 5 to 7 yards inside of the pylon. I like to think Zay might have run a crisper maybe slightly deeper route or turned his head sooner but he really didnt have much time. It was a bang bang play that regrettably didn't work out. Close tho. I wish Dennison would open things up more. Would like to see more of that kind of playcalling.

My two cents.

Edited September 18, 2017 by starrymessenger

[Royale with Cheese]

More on why Jones screwed up, more or less -- https://www.buffalosportspage.com/final-play-throw-catch/ .

 

Read to the end.

 

Well Dennison said they both share blame.

That should end this thread.

[without a drought]

It would have been nice for Zay to pull that in, but it was still on the wrong shoulder. It makes no sense to throw it back towards the coverage.

[Boatdrinks]

Well Dennison said they both share blame.

That should end this thread.

In other words coachspeak for " I'm not going to publicly blame the guy at fault". It's pretty clear it was Zay Jones. Not surprising from a rook. It cost them, now they have to move on.

[reddogblitz]

It would have been nice for Zay to pull that in, but it was still on the wrong shoulder. It makes no sense to throw it back towards the coverage.

What did we hear and see from Zay when we drafted him? The kid can catch anything.

 

He made harder catches than this in the Senior Bowl. So far he's had 3 drops in 2 games.

 

I hope he can pull out of this and start catching the freakin' football. We can't afford a WR that drops passes on 3rd and 4th down, both of which he did in the game Sunday.

[Scott7975]

I know this thread is about the throw to Zay, but I wanted to drop this link to a vid on yardsperpass here. Some people brought up how Taylor missed O'leary running open after throwing a pass to Dimarco. Well here is that play: https://twitter.com/YardsPerPass/status/909847023217557504

 

 

There is no way in hell that Taylor is making that play to Oleary. He would have had to turn his body around to make that throw or throw against his body. At the same time he is being chased by two Panthers that would have crushed him trying that move. Taylor made the right throw. It was even a good throw that should have been a first down.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Scott7975

[bobobonators]

I know this thread is about the throw to Zay, but I wanted to drop this link to a vid on yardsperpass here. Some people brought up how Taylor missed O'leary running open after throwing a pass to Dimarco. Well here is that play: https://twitter.com/YardsPerPass/status/909847023217557504

 

 

There is no way in hell that Taylor is making that play to Oleary. He would have had to turn his body around to make that throw or throw against his body. At the same time he is being chased by two Panthers that would have crushed him trying that move. Taylor made the right throw. It was even a good throw that should have been a first down.

 

Dimarco has been irrelevant.

Edited September 18, 2017 by bobobonators

[LABILLBACKER]

I haven't read through this whole thread, only the first several pages, but even though that one play was crucial, it certainly shouldn't be our focal point. But one thing I didn't mention earlier was the idea that perhaps Zay was heading towards the sideline in order to stop the clock after the reception. Who, why, and how on that one play could be speculated to death, but there will never be a clear cut answer, unless the coaches give us one.

 

The real issue is what put the Bills in that position in the first place.

 

Taylor played rather poorly up until the last several minutes of the game, no question about it. But the offense as a whole was pathetic. The first half was one of the worst 30 minutes of offense that I can remember watching. The play calling was horrendous, our run game was non existent for much of the game, especially in the first half. The passing attack was a non factor. The Bills were still trying to get past page one of their scripted stuff in the second quarter...and even though nothing was working, they were too stubborn to change their approach.

 

On defense, the Panthers had converted their first 3 3rd downs, and were 4/5 on 3rd down after that (I stopped keeping track at that point). The holes in our zone D were huge, and they knew exactly how to attack this defense. Run D was sharp all game, and the Panthers knew it would be going in. But the D kept the Bills in it, and could have had 3 INTs, two of which probably should have been INTs. They were also aided by untimely Panthers penalties that took them out of FG range, keeping the score closer. The pass rush really came alive in the 2nd half.

 

But in the end, the Bills were in pretty good position, all things considered. They had TOs, but did not use them correctly. I was screaming for a TO, but the Bills instead let the clock bleed, only to call TO as the play clock neared zero, wasting about 30 crucial seconds of clock.

 

Bottom line, this loss doesn't fall squarely on the players' shoulders. Play calling was terrible, and game management in certain situations was even worse.

 

The Bills had no business winning yesterday, and they were lucky to be in a position for Zay to win it in the end. Whether it was on Zay or Taylor is not what we should be focused on.

[26CornerBlitz]

I know this thread is about the throw to Zay, but I wanted to drop this link to a vid on yardsperpass here. Some people brought up how Taylor missed O'leary running open after throwing a pass to Dimarco. Well here is that play: https://twitter.com/YardsPerPass/status/909847023217557504

 

 

There is no way in hell that Taylor is making that play to Oleary. He would have had to turn his body around to make that throw or throw against his body. At the same time he is being chased by two Panthers that would have crushed him trying that move. Taylor made the right throw. It was even a good throw that should have been a first down.

 

Get ready for some to use this as evidence that Tyrod is terrible. It's ludicrous, but that won't matter.

[LABILLBACKER]

Zay did the right thing and was heading toward the sideline not to mention away from the safety. It was the perfect route but TT poorly threw it back shoulder. Remember we had only 15 seconds or so left. It would've taken a circus catch.

[26CornerBlitz]

Zay did the right thing and was heading toward the sideline not to mention away from the safety. It was the perfect route but TT poorly threw it back shoulder. Remember we had only 15 seconds or so left. It would've taken a circus catch.

 

No it was not a perfect route. Not even close as both the coaches and players have intimated.

[r00tabaga]

Did he mention anything about his blame for the poorly called game?

For real.

 

Well Dennison said they both share blame.

That should end this thread.

It ended 35 pages ago.

[Magox]

Just like Dennison said, the blame should go to both. The ball should have gone to the outside shoulder.

 

Sal Capaccio ‏Verified account @SalSports 3h3 hours ago

More

Replying to @SalSports

.... as far as the throw, it should have been over the outside shoulder, but there wasn't a huge window with a ton of time..

[BobbyC81]

Well although everybody has comfortably settled on Zay as the culprit, I agree that both players were responsible for the poor execution on that play. First of all it was an excellent playcall that worked beautifully except for the result. Dennison lined up Shady (our best player) outside of Zay along the sidelines. This absolutely required the CB (Bradbury?) to line up opposite him and pay close attention. Shady ran a sort of phoney curl but really just designed to hold up the corner and allow Zay to find open space behind him. The play worked beautifully. In effect Zay was covered (at least under) by a linebacker - Thomas Davis. Davis is great but thats a matchup you absolutely want. The corner loses a step as he flinches just long enuf to free Zay into the space behind him. Note the CB was playing the sideline so presumably the sideline area behind him (and away from any safety moving over to cover from the middle of the field) was the area targeted by the pass. This was a designed play with Zay as the first and probably only read imo. Having to avoid the safety confirms to me that the route called was a corner route. Clearly the plan therefore was for Zay to cut it to the sideline (corner) which is what he did. To me Tyrod threw a hybrid pass somewhere between a fly and a corner pattern. It wasn't terrible but I have to wonder whether it was supposed to land 5 to 7 yards inside of the pylon. I like to think Zay might have run a crisper maybe slightly deeper route or turned his head sooner but he really didnt have much time. It was a bang bang play that regrettably didn't work out. Close tho. I wish Dennison would open things up more. Would like to see more of that kind of playcalling.

My two cents.

I agree with you that it was a bang bang play and it shouldn't be called a drop for Zay. Could he have caught it? Sure, but by the time he was turned around the ball was right there and he had little time to react.

[clearwater cadet]

maybe it was a bad route. players make plays. the qb puts it up the wr goes and gets it.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

OK, I'll bite.

 

Tyrod Taylor was hot garbage all day, until the final two minutes.

So you're saying there is something to build on at QB?

 

I kid I kid I know you're hugging the tank

Edited September 19, 2017 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[26CornerBlitz]

Zay has to make this play.

 

@Cover_1_

Got the look they wanted, but ZJ drops it. Kuechly listens to the OL, calls the pass pro slide left. Bradberry's route recog was on Sunday.

https://twitter.com/i/videos/tweet/909944264817364992

[Scott7975]

Zay has to make this play.

 

@Cover_1_

Got the look they wanted, but ZJ drops it. Kuechly listens to the OL, calls the pass pro slide left. Bradberry's route recog was on Sunday.

https://twitter.com/i/videos/tweet/909944264817364992

Man both Tyrod and Jones were rocked on that play.

[HappyDays]

Zay has to make this play.

 

@Cover_1_

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Got the look they wanted, but ZJ drops it. Kuechly listens to the OL, calls the pass pro slide left. Bradberry's route recog was on Sunday.

https://twitter.com/i/videos/tweet/909944264817364992

They ran that same play to perfection in preseason and against the Jets. It's one of our cornerstone plays when we need a 1st. But this is what happens when you're leaning on a rookie to play a big role in your passing offense.