Is McDermott/Bean just Jauron/Levy II?

[BUFFALOKIE]

JAT

[26CornerBlitz]

JAT

 

Welcome back.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Nope

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I think Brandon Beane gave us a little clarification today regarding why they made these controversial trades.

 

Those who are excited because they are now expecting 2-4 wins this season and a high first round pick this year..........mmmmmperhaps not.

 

It's NOT a tank:

 

"If this was baseball, wed probably have kept Sammy, because we wouldnt have had the cap to worry about," Beane told King. "But every decision you make in football, with the cap, is a calculated risk. We had four inquiries for Sammy, and three offers, and got to a point where the Rams were willing to give a high pick, and we thought it was the best thing for us."

Beane points out that trades like the Bills made Friday are rare King references just three similar trades over the last six years.

With six picks in the first three rounds, Beane told King he knows the pressure will fall directly on him.

"The onus is on me and my staff," the Bills' GM said. "We have to draft well. Weve taken the first step accumulating high picks."

 

 

 

They are trying to win using the simplify and synergize approach........the same basic building technique used by Jauron/Levy.

 

For those that have forgotten.....the Ivy League duo took over the franchise and tried to build a team around veteran role players.

 

Their rationale was based greatly on a misunderstanding about how the Patriots had become successful.........neglectful of the fact that Belichick was a brilliant game planner and gameday coach........and that he was aided significantly by cheating.

 

So basically two guys whose education suggested they deserve a ton of trust........then spent the first couple years turning over the talented personalities on the roster that either wanted to get paid......or were likely to question their stewardship......specifically Lawyer Milloy, London Fletcher, Nate Clements, Willis McGahee and Takeo Spikes..........and then essentially using all of their draft capital for the next few seasons on their replacements.

 

On the field.........they played vanilla defense and offense........protected the ball.........ran it, ran it, passed it and punted it........and won 7 games for 3 straight years as the roster became weaker and weaker........until the team finally quit on him.

 

Is this what we are facing with McDermott/Bean?

 

I don't know.........but McDermott doesn't strike me as a strategic genius.......he was a Jauron-y kinda' DC in Carolina.

 

But if anyone thinks this is a refreshing "disruption" or anything remotely new to this franchise.......nope.

 

 

Are you implying that Tredavius is going to change his last name to hitner?

 

Let's see these guys field a squad. I've listened to all their press briefings and I like what they have to say.

[BADOLBILZ]

Are you implying that Tredavius is going to change his last name to hitner? Nope, 3D is a terrific player and quality teammate

 

Let's see these guys field a squad. I've listened to all their press briefings and I like what they have to say. Were we not going to let them field a squad this season? Yes, time will tell.......but that's always the case.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

Are you implying that Tredavius is going to change his last name to hitner? Nope, 3D is a terrific player and quality teammate

 

Let's see these guys field a squad. I've listened to all their press briefings and I like what they have to say. Were we not going to let them field a squad this season? Yes, time will tell.......but that's always the case.

3D- quality work there man. If I was buying a jersey this year...

[Green Lightning]

Wow, I think the OP is living under a rock. If that's his take, there's little reason to discuss it with him.

[Buffalo86]

To me, anything is refreshing compared to the monumental failures that finally got dumped.

 

I have no respect for anything Carolina Panthers, so I'm not expecting too much, but I'm willing to give them a chance. This year, I want to see improvement from Week 1 to Week 17. If the team is floundering in Year 2, I will get the whipping stick ready and start using it hard in Year 3. To me, that's a more than reasonable approach.

 

You and I are on the same channel. I was happy just to get the last guys out & hire some people from the outside. Getting guys who might actually know what they're doing was a huge bonus.

 

I've been bashing the Bills nonstop for a decade+. The fact that I'm no longer doing so should serve as scientific proof that we're finally on the right track.

[eball]

Hey, maybe I'd be on your heels if you were right I don't know, maybe one or two times in your predictions for the team. 😂

Dude, you are so barking up the wrong tree. Im an optimistic guy and always root for things to work out. Im not trying to impress people with my predictions and Ill continue to ridicule those who are.

[JM57]

 

 

I get the fact that these guys are new so they seem special.

 

But McDermott has a very modest coaching record........as I've mentioned, he was actually FIRED as a DC in the job before his last.......which is highly unusual for a first time HC candidate..........and Beane has about as much player scouting experience as Russ Brandon......not really a personnel man by nature.

But when you look back at the 2010 Eagles, you can see that no one would have succeeded with that defense. He was more of a scapegoat to allow Andy Reid to lengthen his own leash than anything else.

 

They had a nice run of good defenses under Jim Johnson. When he passed, McDermott was thrust into the role, but the circumstance of his promotion doesn't matter. That defense was going to regress under any DC. They had a patchwork LB corps, no one on the DL except Trent Cole, and a past his prime Asante Samuel at CB.

[Real McClappy]

And I thought BBMB posters were the worst.

Speaks the rookie that has been here 5 months, that has rambled the same garbage in several threads now.

[sullim4]

After one pre season game? Drama King Message Board.

 

Same group of people that think Peterman is the next Joe Montana...

[BADOLBILZ]

Dude, you are so barking up the wrong tree. Im an optimistic guy and always root for things to work out. Im not trying to impress people with my predictions and Ill continue to ridicule those who are.

 

 

And what does THAT particular endeavor do to encourage discussion on TSW?

 

Basically you are just here to identify people to pick fights with?

 

That doesn't seem selfish or pricky for the sake of being either or both.....at all.

 

Have another bottle wineball.

[Boatdrinks]

Damn BADOL, just when my McBeane trust-o-meter was already plummeting you throw this out there. The parallel is striking. And I had tried so hard to forget those years.

[BillsFan4]

I get the fact that these guys are new so they seem special.

 

But McDermott has a very modest coaching record........as I've mentioned, he was actually FIRED as a DC in the job before his last.......which is highly unusual for a first time HC candidate..........and Beane has about as much player scouting experience as Russ Brandon......not really a personnel man by nature.

 

I think having a top 10 defense 4 of the past 5 years is pretty successful, no?

 

They also were the NFC South division champions in 2013, 2014 and 2015 with almost an undefeated season and a SB appearance in 2015.

 

I don't know. I've been a big fan of McDermott and Carolina's defense since 2013. They were a pretty impressive unit IMO. One of the better defenses in the NFL most years and usually pretty exciting to watch.

 

 

And Beane didn't come up on the scouting side, but he does have some scouting experience. That's why he hired a top of the line scouting and personnel staff though. He recognized that probably wasn't his strong suit and he acted accordingly. When's the last time we've had a scouting and personnel staff like this? Pegula spared no expense. Paid top dollar in the NFL and Beane was able to get some top of the line people because of it (IMO anyway).

[Reed83HOF]

I think Brandon Beane gave us a little clarification today regarding why they made these controversial trades.

 

Those who are excited because they are now expecting 2-4 wins this season and a high first round pick this year..........mmmmmperhaps not.

 

It's NOT a tank:

 

"If this was baseball, we’d probably have kept Sammy, because we wouldn’t have had the cap to worry about," Beane told King. "But every decision you make in football, with the cap, is a calculated risk. We had four inquiries for Sammy, and three offers, and got to a point where the Rams were willing to give a high pick, and we thought it was the best thing for us."

Beane points out that trades like the Bills made Friday are rare – King references just three similar trades over the last six years.

With six picks in the first three rounds, Beane told King he knows the pressure will fall directly on him.

 

"The onus is on me and my staff," the Bills' GM said. "We have to draft well. We’ve taken the first step – accumulating high picks."

 

 

They are trying to win using the simplify and synergize approach........the same basic building technique used by Jauron/Levy.

 

For those that have forgotten.....the Ivy League duo took over the franchise and tried to build a team around veteran role players.

 

Their rationale was based greatly on a misunderstanding about how the Patriots had become successful.........neglectful of the fact that Belichick was a brilliant game planner and gameday coach........and that he was aided significantly by cheating.

 

So basically two guys whose education suggested they deserve a ton of trust........then spent the first couple years turning over the talented personalities on the roster that either wanted to get paid......or were likely to question their stewardship......specifically Lawyer Milloy, London Fletcher, Nate Clements, Willis McGahee and Takeo Spikes..........and then essentially using all of their draft capital for the next few seasons on their replacements.

 

On the field.........they played vanilla defense and offense........protected the ball.........ran it, ran it, passed it and punted it........and won 7 games for 3 straight years as the roster became weaker and weaker........until the team finally quit on him.

 

Is this what we are facing with McDermott/Bean?

 

I don't know.........but McDermott doesn't strike me as a strategic genius.......he was a Jauron-y kinda' DC in Carolina.

 

But if anyone thinks this is a refreshing "disruption" or anything remotely new to this franchise.......nope.

 

 

 

Not gonna lie; this is also in the back of my head. We will see how the season plays out, but the parallels are there. I have been duped by this team too long and I am a highly skeptical fan at this point. I still don't see a true personnel guy on this team and that is concerning...

[John from Riverside]

It is just so early for this kind of talk

[4BillsintheBurgh]

Where I see similarity is in the owners box. TP needs to establish what he wants for his football team and make sure whoever comes in adheres to that vision. He signed off drafting these players as well as trading them away. There must be boundaries on the front office and it seems we won't be building a team until our identity is established, either by the Pegula’s or someone coming in.

 

At this point he is ralph willing to spend money.

[Coach Tuesday]

One "difference" between the two regimes is the purported quality of the scouting and personnel staff brought in this offseason. Hopefully that gets this crew over the constant 7-9 hump. Plus they'll get "lucky" with Father Time in a couple of years - Brady can't do this forever.

 

But I look forward to reviving this thread during the season because I have a strong suspicion that many folks around here don't fully realize just how boring this team is going to look this season. Lots of four fieldgoal performances and "heartbreaking" bend-don't-break-then-finally-break losses that McD chalks up to "character building" and "learning how to win" and "showing good compete." By November, I fear that this comparison will be oft-cited on this board and in the local media.

[GunnerBill]

I think the misconception is that this defense will be as vanilla and passive as Jauron's.... but then one BADOL did not get right was saying that about Jim Schwartz defense when he arrived here. In fact we heard some of the same things "his record as a DC isn't that good... his D will be vanilla... expect fewer sacks". It morphed mid season into "well sure Schwartz is always successful with talented front 4s but his defense is expensive to maintain if he leaves they should go for a DC who can get production out of no names... like Rex Ryan."

 

McDermott's D will be nasty and aggressive on 1st and 2nd down. Then on 3rd down, yes, it will play a lot of coverage and protect the sticks.

 

Look Badol does get a lot of things right on here but I think he is guilty of seeing every 4-3 defense that doesn't live on blitzes as being the same and by nature being passive. It just isn't true.

 

I have concerns about whether there is enough talent on the back end of this defense but I an not concerned about the scheme. I have seen it in action in Carolina and know it can work.

[Coach Tuesday]

I'm more concerned about the vanilla offense, Gunner.

[GunnerBill]

I'm more concerned about the vanilla offense, Gunner.

 

Same. Don't see explosive play makers in the passing game.

[Putin]

 

You and I are on the same channel. I was happy just to get the last guys out & hire some people from the outside. Getting guys who might actually know what they're doing was a huge bonus.

 

I've been bashing the Bills nonstop for a decade+. The fact that I'm no longer doing so should serve as scientific proof that we're finally on the right track.

I'm sorry but to say we're finally on the right track is a little premature IMO

[BuffaloHokie13]

Nope. We're in a great position to bring in the talent the FO & HC want and build the team with some direction.

[T-Bomb]

Feels like it. 7-9 looks like what the record will be.

 

Even with Sammy.

[Golden*Wheels]

I don't see the McDermott having anything close to the same milquetoast personality as Jauron.

 

To be fair, I've seen pillow pals with more fire than Dick Jauron.

[Niagara Bill]

NO ONE COULD BE AS UNPASSIONATE and UNEMOTIONAL AS Jauron. I once saw him say Geewiz when the refs made a questionable call. I watched as he made sure his QB had a coat on his shoulders during sideline timeouts gatherings in cool weather.

[BADOLBILZ]

I think the misconception is that this defense will be as vanilla and passive as Jauron's.... but then one BADOL did not get right was saying that about Jim Schwartz defense when he arrived here. In fact we heard some of the same things "his record as a DC isn't that good... his D will be vanilla... expect fewer sacks". It morphed mid season into "well sure Schwartz is always successful with talented front 4s but his defense is expensive to maintain if he leaves they should go for a DC who can get production out of no names... like Rex Ryan."

 

McDermott's D will be nasty and aggressive on 1st and 2nd down. Then on 3rd down, yes, it will play a lot of coverage and protect the sticks.

 

Look Badol does get a lot of things right on here but I think he is guilty of seeing every 4-3 defense that doesn't live on blitzes as being the same and by nature being passive. It just isn't true.

 

I have concerns about whether there is enough talent on the back end of this defense but I an not concerned about the scheme. I have seen it in action in Carolina and know it can work.

 

 

That's simply not true Gunner.

 

I don't need to defend my take on Schwartz track record as a DC prior to Buffalo.......it wasn't good.........but you've taken my initial take on the Schwartz transition and stretched it over a ten month period.

 

You've also omitted the most important part.......that Schwartz had taken over for Mike Pettine......who in the blink of an eye had turned around the worst defense the Bills have ever fielded.......and made them a QB-violent front with a multiple, gameplan adaptable back end........which is really the IDEAL.

 

 

And the talk about me clamoring for Rex at mid-season is COMPLETE baloney.....never happened......I was totally on board with Schwartz by the time I saw his wide 9 with Bills personnel in preseason..........but as I said that January when they hired Schwartz......it would be very expensive to maintain the need for 4 pass rushers, linebackers that don't need protection to stop the run and a host of man coverage corners.

 

So basically.......you've created an utterly false narrative.......but feel free to refute me calling you a liar of both fact and omission.

 

As for McDermott........I am not saying he is Jauron........but there are only so many ways for a new coach to try to build a team........and we've seen this simplify and synergize approach before.

 

It didn't work.

 

Perhaps with better X's and O's(Dennison is good) and a more dynamic QB in Tyrod will offset the otherwise lack of Jimmy's and Joe's and yield different results.

 

But being careful with the football and playing zone defense in the secondary was the hallmark of Jauron ball.

 

And getting rid of the Donahoe's talent and using all of their draft assets to replace it with younger, less effective versions of it.....treading water as a roster.......was the hallmark of that Levy/Brandon/Modrak front office.

I'm more concerned about the vanilla offense, Gunner.

 

The offense will be much better than it was under Jauron but going from leading the league in big plays for two years to this approach might be noticeable drop.

 

And why?

 

On defense.........I guess Gunner expects cover 3 to stifle the QB's on the Bills schedule this year............I expect to see A LOT of pitch and catch.......a maddening aspect of Jauron-ball.

 

But we shall see.......will depend greatly on the play of that front 4.

[teef]

eh...!@#$ it. i'm just going to enjoy watching some football and see what unfolds. why bother to be so dramatic about it? some people truly aren't happy unless they're complaining. it's a game. have fun with it.

[GunnerBill]

 

 

That's simply not true Gunner.

 

I don't need to defend my take on Schwartz track record as a DC prior to Buffalo.......it wasn't good.........but you've taken my initial take on the Schwartz transition and stretched it over a ten month period.

 

You've also omitted the most important part.......that Schwartz had taken over for Mike Pettine......who in the blink of an eye had turned around the worst defense the Bills have ever fielded.......and made them a QB-violent front with a multiple, gameplan adaptable back end........which is really the IDEAL.

 

 

And the talk about me clamoring for Rex at mid-season is COMPLETE baloney.....never happened......I was totally on board with Schwartz by the time I saw his wide 9 with Bills personnel in preseason..........but as I said that January when they hired Schwartz......it would be very expensive to maintain the need for 4 pass rushers, linebackers that don't need protection to stop the run and a host of man coverage corners.

 

So basically.......you've created an utterly false narrative.......but feel free to refute me calling you a liar of both fact and omission.

 

 

When did you say that you thought they'd need someone like Rex then? Because it definitely happened in the season before he arrived. The timing I may have misremembered.

 

You have a subjective preference for the Mike Pettine style of defense.... that is fine and I am not even saying it is wrong. But you instincts every time we hire a 4-3 coach are the see that as bland, vanilla and passive. That wasn't true of Schwartz's defense and based on watching McDermott with Carolina (I don't recall having watched as much of his defenses as Philly) it won't be true of our new defense either.

 

The rest about the way they want to build the team character first etc... there may be some truth in. I think it is too early to tell and you are entitled to expect the worst if you like.... the Bills as an organisation have done little to earn the benefit of the doubt.

[BADOLBILZ]

It is just so early for this kind of talk

 

 

It's too early for a question?

 

Again......I am not predicting Jauron results, just pointing out the similarities for the sake of discussion...........the point of TSW...........this McDermott/Beane approach to team-building is not anything new to Bills fans, IMO.

eh...!@#$ it. i'm just going to enjoy watching some football and see what unfolds. why bother to be so dramatic about it? some people truly aren't happy unless they're complaining. it's a game. have fun with it.

 

 

No let's be clear........you are going to glue yourself obsessively to this football message board 24/7 for the next 5 months....you'll post another 3000 times on TSW(about a decades worth of posts for me).......you'll watch maybe 50 hours of Bills football.......and PRETEND you are good with whatever because you are so invested that you can't be objective.

 

How close was that?

 

Me.......I will be here periodically......watch a lot of NCAA and NFL football this fall........tailgate 8-10 times and enjoy life because I realize this is just entertainment.

[BringBackOrton]

Hey, maybe I'd be on your heels if you were right I don't know, maybe one or two times in your predictions for the team. 😂

Eball needs to be wrong like he needs oxygen.

[thebandit27]

It's going to take me more time to come to any kind of conclusion on these guys.

 

What I do see, however, is a far different personality profile for McDermott/Beane than Jauron/Levy, so that's a start.

 

The personnel side of things will, hopefully, become clearer after next offseason.

 

What I agree is worrisome is the idea that this duo's "build through the draft" philosophy is going to be boiled down to "fill holes through the draft", which as you (BADOL) and I have discussed numerous times is a poor strategy.

 

Now, it's possible that the accumulation of picks is analytics-driven, and it could follow suit that the utilization of those picks will also be analytics-driven, which would suggest a BPA-based-on-positional-value approach...and that would be a welcomed improvement.

 

Again though, that's speculation at best.

[PolishDave]

You know this thread is going to resurface after game 1 when McDermott chooses to punt from inside the other team's 40.

[T master]

You need to change your heading !!

 

I'm hoping that your heading should look more like Polian/Levy II & not what yours says !!

 

Jauron was more of a good not great D coordinator, some coaches can be good at one thing & be mediocre at another which i think was Jauron's deal .

 

I hope that we can look back at this move the Pegula's have made when we are in the SB & say yep this was more of a Polian/Levy II type hire !!

 

GO BILLS !!

[BADOLBILZ]

 

When did you say that you thought they'd need someone like Rex then? Because it definitely happened in the season before he arrived. The timing I may have misremembered.

 

You have a subjective preference for the Mike Pettine style of defense.... that is fine and I am not even saying it is wrong. But you instincts every time we hire a 4-3 coach are the see that as bland, vanilla and passive. That wasn't true of Schwartz's defense and based on watching McDermott with Carolina (I don't recall having watched as much of his defenses as Philly) it won't be true of our new defense either.

 

The rest about the way they want to build the team character first etc... there may be some truth in. I think it is too early to tell and you are entitled to expect the worst if you like.... the Bills as an organisation have done little to earn the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

No, I never said that in season regarding Schwartz/Rex.......like I said you just made that up.

 

I gave Schwartz tons of props for his work and wasn't looking for his replacement in season........ferchrissake.

 

And regarding the second highlighted.........too many adjectives........you are just filling in blanks.

 

I never said I saw McDermott's front was bland or passive........Carolina's front was built on pass rushers.........Jauron's front was aggressive too........it's about the back end and I'm not a fan of zone-only secondaries........which is what they've constructed by extracting Darby and Gilmore.

Eball needs to be wrong like he needs oxygen.

 

 

Ain't that the truth........I bust his balls but actually feel bad for the guy.

[GG]

I can see how someone may confuse a well regarded assistant GM for a successful franchise with 15+ yrs of experience, including filling in as GM - for a septuagenarian former coach who's never had a front office job in his career.

 

I can see how someone can confuse a senile skinflint who needed the persuasion of his marketing GM to land one big contract a year to boost ticket sales with an owner of an open checkbook.

 

I can see how somebody can take the "build through the draft" comment and only apply it only to Jauron, when every other organization says the same thing.

 

Because the similarities of the two situations are so so similar, I need to dust off my McCargo jersey for old times sake.

Edited August 16, 2017 by GG

[eball]

I can see how someone may confuse a well regarded assistant GM for a successful franchise with 15+ yrs of experience, including filling in as GM - for a septuagenarian former coach who's never had a front office job in his career.

 

I can see how someone can confuse a senile skinflint who needed the persuasion of his marketing GM to land one big contract a year to boost ticket sales with an owner of an open checkbook.

 

I can see how somebody can take the "build through the draft" comment and only apply it only to Jauron, when every other organization says the same thing.

 

Because the similarities of the two situations are so so similar, I need to dust off my McCargo jersey for old times sake.

 

Come on, GG...good old BADOL is just "stimulating discussion."

[Coach Tuesday]

Again though, isn't the fact that Pegula has invested in an actual front office a key difference this time around? I know Modrak had a decent enough reputation (although I recall it being discussed that he over-relied on BLESTO reports) but the group they brought in this year - paying big money to steal them away from the Chiefs, Texans, etc. - seems far more qualified than anything we've seen around here in a couple of decades.

 

I'm hoping so, at least... and I echo Bandit's point about hoping for an analytical approach to the draft, instead of a hole-plugging strategy...

[teef]

 

 

It's too early for a question?

 

Again......I am not predicting Jauron results, just pointing out the similarities for the sake of discussion...........the point of TSW...........this McDermott/Beane approach to team-building is not anything new to Bills fans, IMO.

 

 

No let's be clear........you are going to glue yourself obsessively to this football message board 24/7 for the next 5 months....you'll post another 3000 times on TSW(about a decades worth of posts for me).......you'll watch maybe 50 hours of Bills football.......and PRETEND you are good with whatever because you are so invested that you can't be objective.

 

How close was that?

 

Me.......I will be here periodically......watch a lot of NCAA and NFL football this fall........tailgate 8-10 times and enjoy life because I realize this is just entertainment.

nah. for anyone to even begin a thread like this they have to be fairly wound up. you complain far too much to be a laid back guy. more than likely you're a fairly solitary man. maybe have a few friends that are willing to put up with your quirks. kinda middle of the road at work...ya know, a guy who really never wows anyone, but also doesn't get in the way. at parties you try to carry on conversation by showing what you know, and people will nod, agree and be nice, but ultimately they're just waiting for you to go away.

 

you're a fairly easy read.