TG on Whaley & McD sounds to be in charge update

[GaryPinC]

 

I'm not sure I believe any of this crap. No good evidence/sources sited. Mostly just speculation.

When Marrone/Brandon/Whaley had that public spat on the practice field a few years ago, then there was supposedly more animosity at a later dinner, Graham was tweeting about false items and referencing a source within the Bills organization. Later that day Brandon interviewed and went on record saying the same things Graham had tweeted. At that point I assumed Graham has Brandon as a source. I could easily be wrong but the events were not-so-coincidental in my mind.

 

Looking at Graham's article on Brandon from the other day: http://buffalonews.com/2017/04/24/tim-grahams-power-take-thank-russ-brandon/

 

This is a garbage article, very unlike the quality TG usually writes. No real substance, just a "hey Russ isn't all bad" puff piece.

My take is (assuming Russ is a source) that either Russ asked him to write something or TG decided to do it on his own to help RB out. Either way, it hints that the Pegula's are changing their philosophy and even Brandon may not be safe.

 

Whaley has proven at this point he is not a leader. I don't hate the guy, he's done some good things for us, but he's just not a worthy public figurehead. If he stays, I would be fine if he were moved to director of scouting or some area that maximizes his strengths.

 

Pegulas are pinning the leadership of the franchise on a rookie head coach. That's garbage, he needs to focus on leading his team, not the entire franchise. As good as he may be, he's in over his head right now.

 

To Terry and Kim: We NEED someone in the FO to give this organization vision, direction, leadership, and patience. To get our kitchen in order and be the face of it in good times and bad. You're asking too much of our head coach.

 

I think very little of Haslam's leadership of the Browns but I must give him credit that right now they have a very nice plan in place to build that franchise.

[GG]

 

The only really sad thing about Whaley going would be that he would actually be an excellent director of pro player personnel. The only guy who is completely devoid of talent is Overdorf; PLEASE can we fire that clown, PLEASE.

Why?

[xRUSHx]

 

I was just playing around btw - not being pissy

 

GMs who leave after the draft generally resign/retire. A team owner canning a GM right after the draft is a bit unprecedented; it usually happens December - January. It would also cast another dark mark on this franchise and we would be crucified as having owners that were indecisive and make poor decision after poor decision. Whaley is here until the end of the season imo...

If it's only till the end of the season doesn't that put this staff on a one season highatus, unless they will hire a GM ok with using this staff, hard to find unless they just promote from within a guy with no GM experience, would answer the question of the owners giving complete power to this rookie head coach that's for sure. Good GMs tend to want there own guys. I would hope Pegs would keep everyone together the next 2 seasons just do a conplete restart in 2019. Start with a real good GM it's how teams become good.

[Reed83HOF]

When Marrone/Brandon/Whaley had that public spat on the practice field a few years ago, then there was supposedly more animosity at a later dinner, Graham was tweeting about false items and referencing a source within the Bills organization. Later that day Brandon interviewed and went on record saying the same things Graham had tweeted. At that point I assumed Graham has Brandon as a source. I could easily be wrong but the events were not-so-coincidental in my mind.

 

Looking at Graham's article on Brandon from the other day: http://buffalonews.com/2017/04/24/tim-grahams-power-take-thank-russ-brandon/

 

This is a garbage article, very unlike the quality TG usually writes. No real substance, just a "hey Russ isn't all bad" puff piece.

My take is (assuming Russ is a source) that either Russ asked him to write something or TG decided to do it on his own to help RB out. Either way, it hints that the Pegula's are changing their philosophy and even Brandon may not be safe.

 

Whaley has proven at this point he is not a leader. I don't hate the guy, he's done some good things for us, but he's just not a worthy public figurehead. If he stays, I would be fine if he were moved to director of scouting or some area that maximizes his strengths.

 

Pegulas are pinning the leadership of the franchise on a rookie head coach. That's garbage, he needs to focus on leading his team, not the entire franchise. As good as he may be, he's in over his head right now.

 

To Terry and Kim: We NEED someone in the FO to give this organization vision, direction, leadership, and patience. To get our kitchen in order and be the face of it in good times and bad. You're asking too much of our head coach.

 

I think very little of Haslam's leadership of the Browns but I must give him credit that right now they have a very nice plan in place to build that franchise.

 

Well thought out and a good contribution!

[BuffaNole3]

This is exactly why I'm not going to any games this year...and not again until the Bills start showing that they know at least half of what it takes to run a football team...because right now they are blindly throwing anything at the wall and seeing if it sticks.

Good. More tix for me to choose from.

[ndirish1978]

i just think that the mg thing was another sign of incompetence....for example...

 

you obviously know that you have no 4th round pick. why would you not have tendered mg a 4th? i don't get it....and...

 

being one injury away from needing him. shady will probably not be here next year. hopefully they will take the opportunity to get something for him then. i can't see them paying him at this level for another year...so why wouldn't you pay the extra mil. to keep mike around this year?

 

if shady goes down....or even if he doesn't, there's no way we are no. one in rushing this year. we will probably drop several spots. the lack of forward thinking by the gm sometimes baffles me.

 

Thank you for this, it makes it much easier to immediately dismiss your opinions.

 

Maybe the fact that there is no such thing as a 4th round tender baffles you as well? The choices are 1st, 2nd or original draft. (MG was drafted in the 5th.)

 

Shhh, if you teach people they can't expose their ignorance!

[Reed83HOF]

If it's only till the end of the season doesn't that put this staff on a one season highatus, unless they will hire a GM ok with using this staff, hard to find unless they just promote from within a guy with no GM experience, would answer the question of the owners giving complete power to this rookie head coach that's for sure. Good GMs tend to want there own guys. I would hope Pegs would keep everyone together the next 2 seasons just do a conplete restart in 2019. Start with a real good GM it's how teams become good.

 

Hey I was in favor of chopping him with Rex and burn it all down - it was a great opportunity to do just that. What you are suggesting in 2019 is the most likely outcome; unless of course a horseshoe and a field of 4 leaf clovers are falling out of our asses at the same time we fart a rainbow and leprechaun out.

[K-9]

When Marrone/Brandon/Whaley had that public spat on the practice field a few years ago, then there was supposedly more animosity at a later dinner, Graham was tweeting about false items and referencing a source within the Bills organization. Later that day Brandon interviewed and went on record saying the same things Graham had tweeted. At that point I assumed Graham has Brandon as a source. I could easily be wrong but the events were not-so-coincidental in my mind.

 

Looking at Graham's article on Brandon from the other day: http://buffalonews.com/2017/04/24/tim-grahams-power-take-thank-russ-brandon/

 

This is a garbage article, very unlike the quality TG usually writes. No real substance, just a "hey Russ isn't all bad" puff piece.

My take is (assuming Russ is a source) that either Russ asked him to write something or TG decided to do it on his own to help RB out. Either way, it hints that the Pegula's are changing their philosophy and even Brandon may not be safe.

 

Whaley has proven at this point he is not a leader. I don't hate the guy, he's done some good things for us, but he's just not a worthy public figurehead. If he stays, I would be fine if he were moved to director of scouting or some area that maximizes his strengths.

 

Pegulas are pinning the leadership of the franchise on a rookie head coach. That's garbage, he needs to focus on leading his team, not the entire franchise. As good as he may be, he's in over his head right now.

 

To Terry and Kim: We NEED someone in the FO to give this organization vision, direction, leadership, and patience. To get our kitchen in order and be the face of it in good times and bad. You're asking too much of our head coach.

 

I think very little of Haslam's leadership of the Browns but I must give him credit that right now they have a very nice plan in place to build that franchise.

I think that's overstating it. They are making McDermott the face of the franchise, which is what all HCs are and, given Whaley's weak public speaking skill, it makes a ton of sense. The leadership of the franchise starts with ownership and everyone has a role to play in that but the PUBLIC face of the franchise is a different aspect.

[xRUSHx]

 

Hey I was in favor of chopping him with Rex and burn it all down - it was a great opportunity to do just that. What you are suggesting in 2019 is the most likely outcome; unless of course a horseshoe and a field of 4 leaf clovers are falling out of our asses at the same time we fart a rainbow and leprechaun out.

Ha ha right on man

[jeffismagic]

 

Hey I was in favor of chopping him with Rex and burn it all down - it was a great opportunity to do just that. What you are suggesting in 2019 is the most likely outcome; unless of course a horseshoe and a field of 4 leaf clovers are falling out of our asses at the same time we fart a rainbow and leprechaun out.

 

Unless McDermott is doing a smokescreen and actually has a plan and drafts a QB. Then he might be here longer than 2 years. If he marries Tyrod he will be fired January 2019.

[nucci]

If it's only till the end of the season doesn't that put this staff on a one season highatus, unless they will hire a GM ok with using this staff, hard to find unless they just promote from within a guy with no GM experience, would answer the question of the owners giving complete power to this rookie head coach that's for sure. Good GMs tend to want there own guys. I would hope Pegs would keep everyone together the next 2 seasons just do a conplete restart in 2019. Start with a real good GM it's how teams become good.

so 2 more crappy seasons and we start over again? Wonderful. Hopefully the Sabres will do the same and we'll have both franchises never winning ever

[Reed83HOF]

 

Unless McDermott is doing a smokescreen and actually has a plan and drafts a QB. Then he might be here longer than 2 years. If he marries Tyrod he will be fired January 2019.

 

Of course!

so 2 more crappy seasons and we start over again? Wonderful. Hopefully the Sabres will do the same and we'll have both franchises never winning ever

 

This is the entire problem if you kept Whaley and he ends up getting clipped. Unless of course you bring in someone from Carolina or otherwise has ties to McD. Carolina is not really one of those teams where you poach from their FO though...

[cd1]

with this organization nothing suprises me.

 

They fired polian dude. Like wtf

actually thts true. Only makes sense to keep him head of scouting. Honestly why cant we just get a clear hierarchy on personnel decisions. This isnt the cia

 

OMG - Pegula fired Polian? What power to be able to fire someone who does not even work for you!

 

 

FTLOG - THIS organization is just a little of THREE YEARS OLD.

 

Ralph Wilson (who is now dead - in case you have not heard) fired Polian 15 years ago. Just to be clear, Ralph Wilson is no longer the owner of the Bills.

 

MY GOD it is as if you just make **** up to be outraged about.

[xRUSHx]

 

Of course!

 

 

This is the entire problem if you kept Whaley and he ends up getting clipped. Unless of course you bring in someone from Carolina or otherwise has ties to McD. Carolina is not really one of those teams where you poach from their FO though...

They already made their bed with Whaley with keeping him with a new staff, in my opinion McD and Whaley are now married. New GMs want there own guys it's how the NFL works, if a GM comes in to keep the current staff it's just a longer process to the next complete rebuild in my opinion. Head coaches don't hire GMs the NFL is not built that way just like a successful business Is not built with the the hamburger cook deciding on who is going to be the next boss.

[ndirish1978]

Why?

 

He is our cap guy and he doesn't plan beyond 1 year ahead. His contract language consistently screws up guarantees and other BASIC provisions.

[PromoTheRobot]

What happens if the Bills make the playoffs?

[Rico]

Local media and national media are very different. And yeah local journalists would do both. This isn't new. Sullivan has been calling for Whaley to be fired, but you can still guarantee he will blast Pegula if he fires Whaley next week. I mean do you really not agree with that? Do you think next week he'd write an article praising the Pegulas for a decisive move? Come on man...

Sully wouldn't slam Pegs for actually making the move, but he might slam him for having waited so long.

[yall]

What happens if the Bills make the playoffs?

 

Hat sales in Buffalo will spike, as most of us will be eating them.

[Reed83HOF]

For Rico:

 

http://buffalonews.com/2017/04/25/jerry-sullivan-yet-another-critical-draft-bills/

 

McDermott acts like a man who expects to win right away, to impose his football genius on an unsuspecting NFL. He's counting on his discipline and preparation to overcome a thin, depleted roster, same as old Gregg Williams did before going 3-13 in his debut in 2001.

 

The NFL is a harsh business. It can bring the eager and naive to their knees very quickly. McDermott will find out soon enough what it's like to inherit a team in decline. But his ego tells him he can make a run. That's why he decided to keep Tyrod Taylor as his starting quarterback.

 

That would be a dangerous play, typical of the short-sighted, inconsistent thinking that has plagued Pegula's franchises. If the Bills were honest about their plight, they would have moved on from Taylor, acknowledged they weren't a contender, and given a full commitment to getting a QB

.

Sure, good ones fall through the draft. The Bills have sat and watched several slide right by them. They're the last team I would trust to identify the next Russell Wilson or Dak Prescott. These are the same people who saw Manuel as a franchise guy and picked Cardale Jones last year.

 

McDermott might have other ideas. Despite his contention that the picks will be made by consensus, it looks like he'll have the final say. They won't let Whaley and his scouts talk, so what does that tell you?

I though about you last night!

Sully wouldn't slam Pegs for actually making the move, but he might slam him for having waited so long.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

This is exactly why I'm not going to any games this year...and not again until the Bills start showing that they know at least half of what it takes to run a football team...because right now they are blindly throwing anything at the wall and seeing if it sticks.

 

 

I'm sure you'll be missed

[PromoTheRobot]

I though about you last night!

Wow, depleted roster? Starting corner and backup RB and WR out and this team is ready for the glue factory?

Edited April 26, 2017 by PromoTheRobot

[zevo]

Can McDermott coach the Sabres too?

[jeffismagic]

Can McDermott coach the Sabres too?

 

Oh, please god no.

[Rico]

I though about you last night!

Excellent, thanks!

[GG]

 

He is our cap guy and he doesn't plan beyond 1 year ahead. His contract language consistently screws up guarantees and other BASIC provisions.

 

Not sure I've heard evidence that his contracts screw up basic provisions. He writes up the contracts at the need of the owner & GM.

[Reed83HOF]

Wow, depleted roster? Starting corner and backup RB and WR out and this team is ready for the glue factory?

 

It's getting close. Richie, Woods, Kyle, Hughes aren't getting any younger. We had a window in 2014ish, but it is rapidly closing

[Mr. WEO]

 

He is our cap guy and he doesn't plan beyond 1 year ahead. His contract language consistently screws up guarantees and other BASIC provisions.

 

He just writes the contracts as he's told to.. That's like blaming your lawyer for filing your divorce.

[eball]

Yet teams almost always fire their GMs right after the season if they're gonna do it, or before the season even ends. You have to admit this would be very very unusual and questions would fly about Pegula's willingness to stick with a plan. He's already catching flak for firing Tim Murray and now he's going to fire his GM months after it should have already happened? I pray this doesn't happen and I don't think it will. Not even a big Whaley fan but that ship has sailed, he should finish this season.

 

From today's PFT article, first paragraph:

 

Although plenty of teams react to a bad season by dumping front-office employees in January, the more sensible approach is to wait until after the draft. That’s when the bulk of the work has ended, and it also prevents the scout from taking to a new team the fruits of the labor performed on the prior employer’s nickel.

[Reed83HOF]

In Buffalo, there’s a belief that the Bills will be making extensive moves in the front office when the draft concludes. Per a league source, the team’s scouts are bracing for job changes after the draft. As one scout explained it, “We are all getting fired next week.”

 

In response to that claim, the Bills provided to PFT the following statement: “Right now, our focus is on the preparation for this week’s draft. Like every year, evaluations of our player personnel staff take place following the draft. And this year will be no different.”

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/04/26/bills-scouts-bracing-for-a-post-draft-house-cleaning/

[BillsFanForever19]

I really like Whaley's drafts. They haven't always worked out for us, but at the time of the pick - he generally always found good value. As opposed to reaching for guys like Donte Whitner or Torrell Troup, for example.

 

If he's out, I hope McDermott isn't the type to fall in love with a prospect and pick them earlier than he should.

[Coach Tuesday]

To me, Whaley's biggest problem has been his inability to plan strategically, both year to year and long-term: identify trends developing within the league, division, college game, and internal roster and develop a plan to allocate limited resources accordingly. You have to be able to anticipate where the game is going and where your roster is going and have a clear plan for anticipating needs and issues before they arise. Whaley is TERRIBLE at this. He can credibly evaluate players on other rosters (i.e., pro personnel scouting) but that's really about it.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Coach Tuesday

[HappyDays]

 

From today's PFT article, first paragraph:

 

Although plenty of teams react to a bad season by dumping front-office employees in January, the more sensible approach is to wait until after the draft. Thats when the bulk of the work has ended, and it also prevents the scout from taking to a new team the fruits of the labor performed on the prior employers nickel.

They're talking about scouts, not the GM. It is still true that if we fire Whaley next week it would be unprecedented. I wonder if there's a chance Pegula just changes Whaley's role to head of pro scouting or something like that. If there was ever a question it should have been taken care of when Rex was fired.

[CommonCents]

 

From today's PFT article, first paragraph:

 

Although plenty of teams react to a bad season by dumping front-office employees in January, the more sensible approach is to wait until after the draft. Thats when the bulk of the work has ended, and it also prevents the scout from taking to a new team the fruits of the labor performed on the prior employers nickel.

I was typing out a novel but the thread got locked or moved here!

 

Coach Tuesday : of course I saw last years draft. During/after that debacle I was one of the more vocal posters flaming Whaley and coming every step of the way.

 

Contrary to the quote above I find it hard to believe the best way to execute the 17' draft is with a rookie HC, sitting (powerless) GM, Pegulas, and Russ. That war room is like trotting out horses vs. tanks.

[BillsFan4]

In Buffalo, there’s a belief that the Bills will be making extensive moves in the front office when the draft concludes. Per a league source, the team’s scouts are bracing for job changes after the draft. As one scout explained it, “We are all getting fired next week.”

 

In response to that claim, the Bills provided to PFT the following statement: “Right now, our focus is on the preparation for this week’s draft. Like every year, evaluations of our player personnel staff take place following the draft. And this year will be no different.”

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/04/26/bills-scouts-bracing-for-a-post-draft-house-cleaning/

Oh boy, this makes me nervous for this upcoming draft.

 

It makes me wonder just how much these scouts (and our GM) will care about getting the picks right.

 

But at the same time, if they do terrible on the picks it may hurt them in trying to get a new job, I guess.

[Beef Jerky]

So in Pegula's mind the perfect time to fire someone is right after you extend them.

Who cares doesn't count against the cap. Maybe he was giving him a severance package and being discreet about it.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Beef Jerky

[Reed83HOF]

To me, Whaley's biggest problem has been his inability to plan strategically, both year to year and long-term: identify trends developing within the league, division, college game, and internal roster and develop a plan to allocate limited resources accordingly. You have to be able to anticipate where the game is going and where your roster is going and have a clear plan for anticipating needs and issues before they arise. Whaley is TERRIBLE at this. He can credibly evaluate players on other rosters (i.e., pro personnel scouting) but that's really about it.

 

Can't really argue with any of this...

[dave mcbride]

Oh boy, this makes me nervous for this upcoming draft.

 

It makes me wonder just how much these scouts (and our GM) will care about getting the picks right.

 

But at the same time, if they do terrible on the picks it may hurt them in trying to get a new job, I guess.

They're not picking.

[CommonCents]

They're talking about scouts, not the GM. It is still true that if we fire Whaley next week it would be unprecedented. I wonder if there's a chance Pegula just changes Whaley's role to head of pro scouting or something like that. If there was ever a question it should have been taken care of when Rex was fired.

I don't see how you can fire all a GM's scouts, then demote that GM to head of scouting and tell him to find all new scouts. That doesn't jive.

[Reed83HOF]

They're talking about scouts, not the GM. It is still true that if we fire Whaley next week it would be unprecedented. If there was ever a question it should have been taken care of when Rex was fired.

 

Scouts always move after the Draft, GMs not so much. well said!

Edited April 26, 2017 by Reed83HOF

[dave mcbride]

I don't see how you can fire all a GM's scouts, then demote that GM to head of scouting and tell him to find all new scouts. That doesn't jive.

It doesn't, and if the scouts go so does Whaley. No way he survives in this scenario. No freaking way.