NFL MVP

[BananaB]

25 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Agreed. Which is why this vote is a joke. 49-1 in favor of Jackson for first place votes??? For one of the worst statistical seasons, we've ever seen from an MVP winning QB who also happened to be supported by the best defense in the league? Completely insane. 

 

This year I don't think two QB's were asked to carry their teams more than Allen and Lamar week in and week out on the offensive side of the ball. The Bills defense was good. The Ravens defense was elite. So, I give Allen the edge in the "valuable to the team" concept of the award. 

Lamar wasn’t asked to carry his team. They had the best D in the league that gave up the fewest points. He played consistent and never had many negative plays but he never had to carry his team at all. Carry the offense, after their loss to the Chiefs all we heard was they should have run the ball more, they never used their RBs like they did in regular season. Give me a break. Guy was average and the media was pushing the narrative because of a team record. Up until his last 2 games of the season he had like 20 TDs. A third of his TDs came in two games. The award is ***** joke at this point

Edited February 9 by BananaB

[Scott7975]

I have no problem with Allen not winning it.  I don't think Lamar deserved it though.  Everyone pretty much knew for a month it would turn out this way.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

4 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Lamar wasn’t asked to carry his team. They had the best D in the league that gave up the fewest points. He played consistent and never had many negative plays but he never had to carry his team at all. 

 

Agree. He carried the offense. But the Ravens defense was better than their offense this year.  

 

Some like to say an MVP cannot come from a team with two candidates. Making the case that neither Purdy or CMC should win. Well, the same should be said for a QB who leads an offense that is outshined by its defense. 

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Just put him on your ignore list. He once said "I don't care about TDs" as it relates to judging a QB's performance. No point in engaging with someone still learning the basics of the sport.

I stopped paying attention to him when he said it was more realistic that Peterman would be our franchise QB than Allen based off completion percentage in the pre-season.  I wasn't a huge Allen fan at the time but my god that was horrible analysis.  I actually felt better about this team when he said there was a zero percent chance we win out after the Eagles game.

[BritBill]

5 hours ago, zow2 said:

Lamar walks into the HOF tonight 

 

 

 

 

Well he isn't going to throw into it. 

Edited February 9 by BritBill

[balln]

4 hours ago, Brand J said:

Lamar didn’t play against the Steelers in the final regular season game, so he was 6-2. But check this out…
 

Ravens 25 Texans 9

Ravens 28 Browns 3

Ravens 38 Lions 6

Ravens 33 49ers 19

Ravens 56 Dolphins 19

 

Optics matter. Of their 13 regular seasons wins, 9 were by double digits. Of the eight teams in NFL history that had 9 wins by double digits or more, all had made the Super Bowl and only one of those didn’t win. 
 

The Lamar led Ravens bludgeoned teams and that’s why he’s MVP of the regular season, because he played phenomenal at times. It wasn’t because “let’s give the award to him because he’s Black.” I’m surprised so many of you agreed with that take.

Looks like a dominant BAL D. Wonder what the turnover profile was in those games. How many short fields BAL get? 
 

Niners game Lamar had 2 wow plays. He also had a laughable safety / grounding call that doesn’t show up in the stats. Purdy threw up 4 times and they had 3 short fields. Other int was in the red zone 

4 hours ago, Dick_Cheney said:

I disagree actually. I think he’s generally well liked. 

 

But the general attitude toward the Bills is that they are good and sometimes great, but destined to choke. I think we’re viewed as a good team now, but in the end we’re still losers. 

 

Josh is living under Mahomes shadow. It’s going to be this way until the Bills win a Super Bowl. Why would the media spend time liking Josh when then could be giving that attention to other people and teams who don’t have legendary choke jobs and honestly a kind of cursed vibe attached to them. 

 

Those are obviously not my feelings toward Josh and the team, but I do believe it’s how a lot of other people view him and the team. It doesn’t matter how many incredible moments he has because in the end they come up short and it’s pointless and painful. 

Welll. On social media. Especially twitter. Josh Allen is hated. It’s incredible. And unfortunately the media and the 50 all pro voters all exist now in the twitter space…. And that’s why the race thing is fair to bring up for multiple reasons. 

[balln]

4 hours ago, Brand J said:

Well let’s play the same game with the Bills, shall we. Look at this…

 

Buffalo 48 Dolphins 20

Buffalo 31 Cowboys 10

 

Welp, that’s it. No other big wins against playoff contenders. No other double digit smack downs. Your “average margin of victory was 13 points” was inflated by these two games. The Ravens had more double digit wins and more dominate performances against playoff teams. Why is this so hard to understand? Take off the homer glasses, the Bills were fortunate to eke out a few of those wins against playoff contenders.

 Bc their defense , special teams and coaches are sub par especially relative to the ravens!

[balln]

4 hours ago, FireChans said:

Jared Goff's stats in 2022 were pretty good. Your point was that he didn't receive MVP votes, and he shouldn't have. Because his team won 9 games and missed the playoffs.

Youre making (unknowingly) the very strong argument for why Lamar isn’t the mvp - bc their D / coaching is so much better

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, balln said:

Youre making (unknowingly) the very strong argument for why Lamar isn’t the mvp - bc their D / coaching is so much better

 

No you are missing what he is saying. He isn't saying the record makes Lamar in a literal sense the most valuable player. He is saying the reality of the MVP award is it invariably goes to the Quarterback of one of the #1 seeds. And this season the two #1 seeds played towards the end of the year and it was clear who the better Quarterback was. 

 

I don't think @FireChans is saying that is right or wrong just that it is the reality.

[balln]

4 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

He had one of the greatest seasons ever for a WR.

Josh had 1 elite performance (PIT) since the 1st of October (MIA) and was largely mediocre most of the year and at multiple occasions was the worst player on the field costing his team games (NYJ,DEN). MVPs don't do that. Injuries certainly played a role in Hill getting demoted, but his season paled in comparison to Tyreek  .Allen's one 1st place vote also votes Lamar 3rd and was clearly a troll vote.

Def Vic Carucci 

[balln]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No you are missing what he is saying. He isn't saying the record makes Lamar in a literal sense the most valuable player. He is saying the reality of the MVP award is it invariably goes to the Quarterback of one of the #1 seeds. And this season the two #1 seeds played towards the end of the year and it was clear who the better Quarterback was. 

 

I don't think @FireChans is saying that is right or wrong just that it is the reality.

I know what he is saying. Without diving into the record books. I would guess that the #1 seeds generally have a great qb. Or a great performing qb (stats). Lamar stats aren’t mvp imo and are akin to Tannehill. Where Lamar outdoes Tannehill is rushing which makes their offense “better” - more first downs / sustained drives / points. 
 

Lamar first mvp I think was legit. This year was clearly odd. You definitely had tua / purdy / cmc / tyreke love until the ravens niners game. A big national tv night game. The fact that Lamar had 49 first place votes out of 50? Pure media narrative bias. Or at best - they couldn’t give it to anyone else - no truly viable option. Dak? No way. Purdy can’t bc of the ravens game. CMC? Not a rb. 
 

In reality cmc probably is the MVP this year - great stats. Great weapon in pass and run. Their team and O look really bad when he doesn’t play. And oh. Great o. #1 seed. 

 

Race does account here. When you get a loud group of ppl in media and tv calling for Lamar for mvp. I’ll give you a big hint. ESPN - Swagu and Ryan Clark. He has a good / great game vs niners on national tv. The rest of those AP voters for mvp would get vilified if they didn’t pick Lamar - social media justice police would come after them. Not public vote but it’s subconscious now. It’s in their minds on some level. Of course Lamar didn’t win it bc they wanted to give it to a black guy. These things are complex and more subtle. And I’m not even saying it’s right or wrong. But it does have an effect 
 

 

Edited February 9 by balln

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, balln said:

I know what he is saying. Without diving into the record books. I would guess that the #1 seeds generally have a great qb. Or a great performing qb (stats). Lamar stats aren’t mvp imo and are akin to Tannehill. Where Lamar outdoes Tannehill is rushing which makes their offense “better” - more first downs / sustained drives / points. 
 

Lamar first mvp I think was legit. This year was clearly odd. You definitely had tua / purdy / cmc / tyreke love until the ravens niners game. A big national tv night game. The fact that Lamar had 49 first place votes out of 50? Pure media narrative bias

 

I am not sure I think there was media bias, but there was definitely media groupthink - and that happens basically every year with MVP. By December there is a consensus who it should be and then everyone votes accordingly. 

 

I take the point on Lamar's stats aren't amazing - certainly as a passer 24 touchdowns doesn't feel like it should ever be an MVP - but there wasn't a single Quarterback who really dominated this year. If there had have been the media might have moved off their modus operandi but in the absence of it they stuck to what they usually do - the Quarterback of the #1 seed. 

 

I'm not saying that is right, I said before I'd have voted for Hill or CMC - because it shouldn't just be a Quarterback award and I think more than ever this year actually was the year of the playmaker so in the absence of a dominant QB I'd have stumped for one of those two. But Lamar winning it is kinda par for the course even if I agree with your point that he didn't, on the face of it, have the sort of year that justifies 49 of 50 votes. 

Edited February 9 by GunnerBill

[Turk71]

A QB with 24 passing tds and 5 rushing, with 13 turnovers....

MVP season? Cmon

McCaffrey got robbed.....if there was ever a season to give it to a non QB this was it and he definitely deserved it imo

 

[balln]

26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not sure I think there was media bias, but there was definitely media groupthink - and that happens basically every year with MVP. By December there is a consensus who it should be and then everyone votes accordingly. 

 

I take the point on Lamar's stats aren't amazing - certainly as a passer 24 touchdowns doesn't feel like it should ever be an MVP - but there wasn't a single Quarterback who really dominated this year. If there had have been the media might have moved off their modus operandi but in the absence of it they stuck to what they usually do - the Quarterback of the #1 seed. 

 

I'm not saying that is right, I said before I'd have voted for Hill or CMC - because it shouldn't just be a Quarterback award and I think more than ever this year actually was the year of the playmaker so in the absence of a dominant QB I'd have stumped for one of those two. But Lamar winning it is kinda par for the course even if I agree with your point that he didn't, on the face of it, have the sort of year that justifies 49 of 50 votes. 

 Good response. I wrote the above before reading the last pages. Someone posted - happy days? The article Aaron schatz wrote- the lone Allen voter. That is full stop - mic drop - what everyone needs to read. It’s all there. Everything I’ve said. You better believe the twitter mob is real. He hints at it in the intro.
 

But the analysis the methods the independent critical thinking is what I appreciate from him. It’s validates a lot of the Josh “walk on water “ arguments ppl have made here - correctly so in saying he just MIGHT actually be the mvp this year. 
 

In reality the mvp / awards stuff is a joke. Wins and Super Bowl are all that matter.  Maybe I’m a little worked up now - but it’s the only thing now to cling to as our team isn’t playing Sunday

3 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

A QB with 24 passing tds and 5 rushing, with 13 turnovers....

MVP season? Cmon

McCaffrey got robbed.....if there was ever a season to give it to a non QB this was it and he definitely deserved it imo

 

It’s the 49-1 vote that’s startling. 

Edited February 9 by balln

[DJB]

The awards are dumb. Worst MVP I’ve seen and Demar literally dies on the field and doesn’t win comeback player

 

Insane 

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, balln said:

 Good response. I wrote the above before reading the last pages. Someone posted - happy days? The article Aaron schatz wrote- the lone Allen voter. That is full stop - mic drop - what everyone needs to read. It’s all there. Everything I’ve said. You better believe the twitter mob is real. He hints at it in the intro.
 

But the analysis the methods the independent critical thinking is what I appreciate from him. It’s validates a lot of the Josh “walk on water “ arguments ppl have made here - correctly so in saying he just MIGHT actually be the mvp this year. 
 

In reality the mvp / awards stuff is a joke. Wins and Super Bowl are all that matter.  Maybe I’m a little worked up now - but it’s the only thing now to cling to as our team isn’t playing Sunday

It’s the 49-1 vote that’s startling. 

 

I mean having watched it I didn't feel like I was watching an MVP season from Josh Allen. I did in 2020 actually and he didn't win it Rodgers did. I understand the stats argument Aaron Schatz makes. It is an argument that has merit. I suppose I diverge from him right at the start though because I don't think MVP has to be a Quarterback award because to me it doesn't literally mean most valuable player. It is basically a player of the season award and for me taking the words literally lead you a bit down the wrong path. His assessment of Hill's value in his most recent article is why he'd likely have been my vote his route DVOA was nearly 40 percentage points clear of 2nd place. That is incredible. Overall I also think I like Schatz's All Pro votes better than the actual all pro results. 

[balln]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean having watched it I didn't feel like I was watching an MVP season from Josh Allen. I did in 2020 actually and he didn't win it Rodgers did. I understand the stats argument Aaron Schatz makes. It is an argument that has merit. I suppose I diverge from him right at the start though because I don't think MVP has to be a Quarterback award because to me it doesn't literally mean most valuable player. It is basically a player of the season award and for me taking the words literally lead you a bit down the wrong path. His assessment of Hill's value in his most recent article is why he'd likely have been my vote his route DVOA was nearly 40 percentage points clear of 2nd place. That is incredible. Overall I also think I like Schatz's All Pro votes better than the actual all pro results. 

For sure. I’m arguing mostly that the media award is going to be biased. Well …. Based on social media. And that stuff drives me nuts 

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

I have no problem with Allen not winning it.  I don't think Lamar deserved it though.  Everyone pretty much knew for a month it would turn out this way.

Granted Lamar threw a lot less TD’s than Josh, but he did deserve the award.  That’s in my humble opinion.   I also think Flacco deserved comeback player more than Hamlin.  It was miraculous Hamlin came back, but he was a backup Safety.  Flacco was the 4th QB on the Browns and turned the team around halfway through the year at age 38.

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, balln said:

For sure. I’m arguing mostly that the media award is going to be biased. Well …. Based on social media. And that stuff drives me nuts 

 

Yea. I don't go as far as bias, but I do definitely think there is group think. I can't remember a year recently where an MVP didn't get the overwhelming majority of votes. Even 2020 as I referenced when Rodgers, Allen and Mahomes all had great years the voting was 44, 4, 2..... I'm not arguing that Rodgers didn't deserve MVP but I'm not sure he deserved the landslide. That groupthink happens every year. 

[Meatloaf63]

On 2/7/2024 at 8:59 PM, SWATeam said:

Josh had a drive to win that game.  Mahomes simply gets it done in that situation, we can make all the excuses we want.

it took two ignored pi calls and a fumble on the goaline to give Kermit the win. Stop acting like Mahomes willed his team to victory against Baltimore with superior skill.

[balln]

https://wtop.com/nfl/2024/02/panel-of-voters-for-ap-nfl-awards/
 

Haha ok. This is a joke.

I thought it was like old school newspaper / beat sports guys. 

BRUSCHI! ACHO!

 

edit : Vic is dead to me

Edited February 9 by balln

[BananaB]

Funny how when everyone was saying he choked in the playoffs Ravens fans defended him saying it’s the coaches fault for not running the ball like they did in regular season. MVP my ass! NFL is a ***** joke and this ad their pro bowl format is ridiculous:

Edited February 9 by BananaB

[Not at the table Karlos]

6 minutes ago, balln said:

https://wtop.com/nfl/2024/02/panel-of-voters-for-ap-nfl-awards/
 

Haha ok. This is a joke.

I thought it was like old school newspaper / beat sports guys. 

BRUSCHI! ACHO!

 

edit : Vic is dead to me

The guy has been a mess for a while. Idk how many times I saw him talk about a game that just happened and nothing he talked about happened in the game. Like completely made stuff up. 

[balln]

Just now, Not at the table Karlos said:

The guy has been a mess for a while. Idk how many times I saw him talk about a game that just happened and nothing he talked about happened in the game. Like completely made stuff up. 

I used to care about this award. Never. Again. I thot it was like 50 lesser known guys like Vic carucci around the country voting. Real

sports guys / girls. I also don’t care if anyone brings up mvp / all pro in describing the greatness of players - at least this generation and going forward
 

 

[Chicken Boo]

9 hours ago, MJS said:

I hear this argument a lot, but I don't like it. I mean, I agree that Josh deserves it just as much, if not more, than Lamar, but the NFL MVP is not about who is most valuable on their respective team, it is about who is most valuable league wide.

 

You could have a bad team who's QB does Why do you think this? The Ravens had the #1 defense and better receivers. Why would Josh Allen not perform just as well, if not better, than Lamar? Josh is a better passer and just as big of a threat running it.

 

The Ravens have better receivers?  It's subjective, I guess but I disagree.

 

And the answer is turnovers.  

[strive_for_five_guy]

7 hours ago, Bookie Man said:

just keeping add fuel to the fire

If going 11-6 and not winning MVP is what it takes for Josh to not come out and give games away (a la NYJ week 1), I’m all for it.  The league is all about winning, not just making great plays.

[Chicken Boo]

Is everyone done crying yet?

 

There will never be a MVP with an 11-6 team that has committed 23 turnovers, unless they've broken a record of some sort.  It's just not happening.  

[Gregg]

7 hours ago, julian said:

Lamar wasn’t even in the conversation in any serious way until he put up a 5 TD game late in the season that allowed any serious consideration to begin.

 

 Allen will not win it unless or until he has a single season INT season that prevents the talking heads from continuously bashing him over and over day after day week after week, you can’t believe the actual voters would listen to that all year and then cast a vote in his name.

 

FOUR straight 40+ TD seasons lol.. the numbers this dude is putting are are absolutely ridiculous… we’re very lucky to be Bills fans right now

 

That will never happen. Allen is probably a lock for 12-15 INT's a year. It's his style of play that will lead to that. Allen is similar to Favre in that he has a gun slinger's mentality. He will take chances and be aggressive. It's a big reason why he makes so many great plays. On the downside is it will lead to turnovers from time to time. The Bills and Bills fans are OK living with that because the good plays far out way the bad.

[djp14150]

7 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

If going 11-6 and not winning MVP is what it takes for Josh to not come out and give games away (a la NYJ week 1), I’m all for it.  The league is all about winning, not just making great plays.

where was Allen on the OT punt return that won it for the jets……..

[MJS]

13 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

The Ravens have better receivers?  It's subjective, I guess but I disagree.

 

And the answer is turnovers.  

Beckham, Flowers, Bateman, and Agholor is way better than what the Bills have at receiver.

[PromoTheRobot]

15 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

And the answer is turnovers.  

 

Turnovers were overblown because it became a meme for Josh, and it blinded everyone to how great he was otherwise. It's like gorgeous women with a zit on her forehead. 

[GunnerBill]

36 minutes ago, balln said:

I used to care about this award. Never. Again. I thot it was like 50 lesser known guys like Vic carucci around the country voting. Real

sports guys / girls. I also don’t care if anyone brings up mvp / all pro in describing the greatness of players - at least this generation and going forward
 

 

 

It's still a pretty good list of credible people. Sure, there are a few numpties on it, but there always would have been even in the old days of it being all local print journos. The nutty people will have just been less high profile. The point of the way they do all pro and MVP voting is that the pool is big enough to make sure one or two eccentric people should be drowned out in the crowd. Doesn't always work mind you. Cole Beasley ended up a 2nd team all pro with one vote a few years back because there was such overwhelming consensus about the top 5 receivers that year. 

 

Edited February 9 by GunnerBill

[PromoTheRobot]

14 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

Is everyone done crying yet?

 

There will never be a MVP with an 11-6 team that has committed 23 turnovers, unless they've broken a record of some sort.  It's just not happening.  

 

😂 Records? How much time do you have for the list Josh set this year? So much for that take.

[MJS]

50 minutes ago, balln said:

https://wtop.com/nfl/2024/02/panel-of-voters-for-ap-nfl-awards/
 

Haha ok. This is a joke.

I thought it was like old school newspaper / beat sports guys. 

BRUSCHI! ACHO!

 

edit : Vic is dead to me

Mina Kimes, haha...

[DCOrange]

34 minutes ago, MJS said:

Mina Kimes, haha...

She’s probably one of the most deserving on the list lol. I’m not sure I understand Dianna Russini having a vote. Isn’t she just a rumor reporter ala Schefter? I don’t think I’ve ever seen her provide analysis but maybe I just haven’t noticed.

[Jrb1979]

8 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

What I find interesting is that 24 out of the 50 voters left Josh entirely off their ballot. In what world does he not deserve at least a top 5 vote for this season ? 

The world where the media doesn't view the Bills as the loveable losers anymore.  The Media loves winners. While the Bills are great in the regular season they never get there at the end. IMO the national media is tired of hyping the Bills when they can't finish the job. 

[1ManRaid]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

Is everyone done crying yet?

 

There will never be a MVP with an 11-6 team that has committed 23 turnovers, unless they've broken a record of some sort.  It's just not happening.  

 

Dude, Josh collects records like Pokémon cards.  Shall we book a weekend in the conference room to go over the list?  He also already has more gear being displayed in the HoF than most people already in the HoF.

[LarryMadman]

So all Lamar needs to do is going forward is throw for 3000 yards 25 TDs and run for about 5 TDs and he is automatic and unani.mous MVP. What a joke the NFL has become, where would the Bills be if Josh only had Lamars numbers. 

 

I'll say it, the NFL is woke and Lamar won it because of his skin color, it's what they wanted, todays NFL is scripted beyond belief and it's disgusting. Prove me wrong, there are others way more deserving!

[NewEra]

10 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Roquan Smith

 

Not that he was.  Just answering the question.  

Meh-  1 int.  1 FF.  0 FR.  If someone thinks he’s the team mvp, they need a clue. 

9 hours ago, Herc11 said:

Their defense. That's what kept them in games for the first 3/4 of the season. Lamar didn't do anything until December. He wasn't even in the MVP conversation until the 49ers lost to the Ravens and Purdy lost the MVP. Then all of a sudden everyone was saying how good Lamar was. 

Their defense is the most valuable PLAYER.  Got it

[FireChans]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't think Lamar was a very deserving MVP. I have said all along that in the absence of a QB walking away with it (and definitely none did this year) I'd have voted for non-QBs this time. Hill and CMC. 

 

But the Quarterback of the #1 seed is pretty par for the course in the way the voting for this award goes. 

Narratives also matter for MVP. Lamar and the Ravens smacked a couple great teams in a row and ended some MVP candidacy. 
 

I personally believe Allen would have had a decent chance to win if he put up some insane stat lines during our win streak. Unfortunately, there was no 300 yard 4 TD performance, and the Ravens never faltered.