Key notes from players on locker room cleaning day (here is what you need to know)

[Beck Water]

14 minutes ago, appoo said:

You restructure him. Or a Post June 1 designation which spreads a 30M deadcap to the next two seasons, saving you about 12M in cap space this season, and carrying 15M in deadcap in 2025. 

 

I would much rather restructure him and see if he bounces back in a less needed role

 

Appoo, you really ought to read Mango's post on this.

 

In general, players it makes sense to restructure are the young-ish core of the roster who you plan to keep through the years when the restructure could bite you.

 

It would have been preferable if the Bills could have avoided restructuring him last March, but they did.  Let's not compound the errors.

 

 

[finn]

1 hour ago, RousseauRage said:

He's too scared to let Josh lose a game that it stops him from helping us win. 16 passes behind the LOS.

 

Need to let him him loose and hope we get 3 or 4 games where he doesn't implode in a row in the playoffs. 

 

I thought he did a good job overall. Should have adjusted when the Chiefs stacked the box (or appeared to) in the fourth quarter. My only other criticism is that he kept going to Diggs instead of Shakir. One dropped passes, didn't get open, fumbled, and dropped passes, and the other caught everything, ran well after the catch, and was clutch. Brady should have recognized the changing of the guard even before the game. All those targets to Diggs were wasted. The guy is washed. 

 

I wonder if they could have done better if they had ignored Diggs and focused on Shakir, Kincaid, and Cook. 

[appoo]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Appoo, you really ought to read Mango's post on this.

 

In general, players it makes sense to restructure are the young-ish core of the roster who you plan to keep through the years when the restructure could bite you.

 

It would have been preferable if the Bills could have avoided restructuring him last March, but they did.  Let's not compound the errors.

 

 

 

But that's revisionist isn't it? Did anyone have an issue with Diggs restructure? At the time I think it was pretty much assumed Diggs was gonna be restructured and then extended after this season.  

 

He hadn't shown a single sign of coming close to slowing down until about half way this season.

 

But you don't usually restructure younger players because their Base pay and contract length simply makes it not too value added. Those restructures are most valuable on guys who who are into their 2nd and 3rd contracts when their base salaries hike up

Edited January 22 by appoo

[Aussie Joe]

15 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Probably so.  But not definitely so.

 

Floyd was cut by the Rams 2 years into a 4 year, $64M contract and wound up signing a 1 year, $7M "prove it" deal with the Bills (for which the Bills will take on a nice dead cap hit next season)

 

I'm sure he'd like someone to pony up and offer his 31 year old self a multi-year, multi-million contract.  Von Miller's Albatross of a contract at age 35 illustrates why teams may be reluctant to do so. 

Could still see him getting a 2 yr $10m a year deal though … a far cry from Von money 

[Toledo Bill]

43 minutes ago, appoo said:

I'm not quite worried about the cap to be honest. 

 

Restructure Diggs ~ 12M

Extend Allen (he deserves a much higher salary anyways) or Restructure him ~ 18.8M

Restructure Von ~13M

 

You're already up to 43M

 

Extend Dion Dawkins 4 years ~ 10M

Extend or Release White ~ 6M

Extend Douglas 2 years ~ 4M

 

Bills don't have expensive FAs to re-sign. Davis will walk, Hyde will retire, Poyer will retire (earn more cap savings there). Probably DQ will be retained ($4M). The only one I have a question about is AJE, who I love as a 3rd DE behind GR and Von (who looked decent yesterday).

 

Beane won't be much of a player in the FA market this year, but I do think there's space to add an impact player. For example Budda Baker if negotiations fall through with AZ though I'm not sure Beane would ever sink 14M into a FS

Definitely sign Jones.. Espenesa can go. He is invisible too often.

[NewEra]

👋🏻 gabe

[DapperCam]

Of course Knox loves Allen. He’s responsible for Knox securing that huge contract.

 

Knox should give 25% of his contract to Allen.

[BuffaloBill]

Hard to say what this offseason will bring.  The Bills will need to retool their roster as an outcome of cap and normal management. They have a very good core including JA so they will be competitive.  

[MWK]

It is hilarious to me how people use players endorsing Brady as a reason why we should keep him. Players endorsed Ken Dorsey too.

[Beck Water]

30 minutes ago, appoo said:

But that's revisionist isn't it? Did anyone have an issue with Diggs restructure? At the time I think it was pretty much assumed Diggs was gonna be restructured and then extended after this season. 

 

I think a number of us have receipts for that.  And no, I don't think it was assumed Diggs was going to be extended after this season.

 

He's already 30 and is signed through age 34.  There's a reason guys like OBJ and Hopkins only got 1 and 2 year contracts, respectively.  It's not as bad as RBs, but when WR who rely on quickness and agility fall off a cliff, they sometimes fall steeply.

 

 

26 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Could still see him getting a 2 yr $10m a year deal though … a far cry from Von money 

 

Floyd?  He could.  I think he has visions of more, not sure he'll realize them. 

Edited January 22 by Beck Water

[Ethan in Cleveland]

38 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

If they can get a 5th for Cody Ford, then Bates can be traded for more than that … he is a starter on another team on two years of cheap money

 

I still think there is a good chance they keep Bates next year and save some money by cutting Morse …

 

They need to find a C in the draft who will be starting come 2025 when they will be paying Brown on his second contract 

Not unreasonable to trade Bates. Good thought 

[Beck Water]

23 minutes ago, NewEra said:

👋🏻 gabe

 

I'm not sure what this means?

[Mango]

29 minutes ago, appoo said:

 

But that's revisionist isn't it? Did anyone have an issue with Diggs restructure? At the time I think it was pretty much assumed Diggs was gonna be restructured and then extended after this season.  

 

He hadn't shown a single sign of coming close to slowing down until about half way this season.

 

But you don't usually restructure younger players because their Base pay and contract length simply makes it not too value added. Those restructures are most valuable on guys who who are into their 2nd and 3rd contracts when their base salaries hike up

I’ve been wanting to take a step back from the cap ledge for a few seasons just to give us more flexibility. 
 

I disliked Diggs restructure after his schtick to end last season and OTA’s. I thought Von was a huge risk when we signed him and his restructure was bonkers. 
 

Of course it made some room to sign other players. But every time we do this we need to make bigger decisions a year or two down the line. It’s certainly a cost v reward that is catching up to us. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

59 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Most people would consider going to your most reliable WR while he’s open in the endzone would be a smart play. Not Bills fans though, the best play is to cut it short and hope we have an another opportunity at the endzone in upcoming plays. Why? Because our defensive minded coach has let us down so many times late in games. 😂

hey, dumb question, what is easier to make, a 30 yard pass thrown later in your protections or a 6-8 yard pass thrown earlier?

 

Your inability to understand situational football is noted. Maybe hang out with Ken Dorsey a bit.

[msw2112]

1 hour ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

They threw 16 (16!) passes behind the LOS and only attempted a half dozen past 10 yards. It was cowardly.

 

I'm not typically a fan of passes behind the LOS, but I thought they worked pretty well yesterday.  In particular, the pass to Shakir on 4th down was a huge play.

 

I thought the play calling was pretty good.  The Bills move the ball and scored a lot of points against a strong KC defense.

 

The only playcalls I disliked were a few runs later in the game when KC stacked the box and an easy pass play over the top was available and the long shot into the end zone to Shakir when Diggs was open underneath (for clock management purposes and the higher-percentage play).

 

Overall, Brady has done a great job and the Bills offense has come to life, despite a middling WR corps.

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Depending on how his medicals look, I'd offer him something like a 3yr/$18M with $10M guaranteed. Might be worth bringing him back as a $6M guy who can be easily cut. Definitely not at his current $16M price tho.

Idk if I do that. I love him as a person and the player he was but at his age with his injuries I move on.
 

Also who wants to listen to half the board lose their mind when he comes back and takes time to get back to normal if he can even get back there. Von is pretty much on a normal timeline and people are losing their minds. 

28 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'm not sure what this means?

Bye Gabe. The hand is waving. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Idk if I do that. I love him as a person and the player he was but at his age with his injuries I move on.
 

Also who wants to listen to half the board lose their mind when he comes back and takes time to get back to normal if he can even get back there. Von is pretty much on a normal timeline and people are losing their minds. 

Frankly I dont know that I'd do it either. I just always throw that option out in discussion since folks have a tough enough time accepting that we need to move on from a beloved player.

 

I just dont know what all our options are or what an injury settlement looks like.

[flmike]

2 hours ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

They threw 16 (16!) passes behind the LOS and only attempted a half dozen past 10 yards. It was cowardly.

You mean against one of the best DB sets in the league? Yeah crazy.... Brady did a great job. Josh has to be smarter on reads and receivers need to catch

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Appoo, you really ought to read Mango's post on this.

 

In general, players it makes sense to restructure are the young-ish core of the roster who you plan to keep through the years when the restructure could bite you.

 

It would have been preferable if the Bills could have avoided restructuring him last March, but they did.  Let's not compound the errors.

 

 

I respectfully disagree with both of you. I think we all can agree that Diggs had a down year. That he looks slower, his hands aren't as good, he's not as gamebreaking as he was before.

 

He was still 13th in the league in yards, 7th in receptions. And that was with Gabe Davis showing up once a month at the other boundary. He is still absolutely a #1 receiver in this league. 

 

Now, with 2024 looking like a "take your medicine" year, can I justify keeping his contract as is with an expectation that we could feasibly flip him for assets or cut him if he really drops off? Yes. But Larry Fitzgerald still had a heck of a career once he stopped being a boundary WR. Restructuring him through 2025 isn't necessarily crazy, but should be a judement call from the brass based on their plans. Because #1 WRs aren't easy to pick up. 

[BananaB]

1 minute ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

hey, dumb question, what is easier to make, a 30 yard pass thrown later in your protections or a 6-8 yard pass thrown earlier?

 

Your inability to understand situational football is noted. Maybe hang out with Ken Dorsey a bit.

  
🤣 
The play was there. We needed a TD and it was one of very few times our WR got open down field.  They were shutting down our run and the 3 times we were in the redzone before that it  took an amazing throw to the pylon on the run to get into the ball in the endzone. Just because we continue the drive does not mean we will get a better opportunity. The play was there, WR was open, protection did not hold up. Which sucks because it was great all game

[JMM]

2 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

This is good work .. thanks ..
 

Would like to keep Floyd one more year …

I would have agreed at the halfway point, then Floyd hit his wall and literally was invisible most games after that. Let him walk,  we need to get younger.

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

- Mitch Morse said he wants to be back with the Bills next year and expects to be. 

- Dawson Knox, speaking about Allen, said: "I pray I get to play the rest of my career with him and I think everyone in that room would say the same thing... he's a modern gladiator."

- Dion Dawkins, speaking about Allen, said: "That performance the kid put on yesterday was insane. It was crazy... he makes it easy for all of us to play ball."

 

- Gabe said he is testing free agency but wouldn't mind coming back to Buffalo.

 

- Leonard Floyd said he will go where the money takes him, but would prefer to be back in Buffalo.

- Jordan Phillips says he might retire.

- All offensive players, included Allen, shouted support for Joe Brady.

- Hyde says he needs time to decide what his next steps will be.

 

- Rousseau gave his vote for McD as D Coordinator, mentioning that he learned a lot under McD.

 

- Gabe and Bernard both said they were planning on playing in the AFCCG.

 

.

So then everyone pretty much said what you might expect them to say.

 

Riveting stuff!

 

 

[billsfanmd07]

The entire D Line disappeared. Floyd was a force the first half the year. I really dont remember seeing him do much the last month or so. I still feel like Groot should make more impact place as well. We still have no one that needs to be game planned for.   Floyd following money is what i would expect. Ep makes splash plays but goes games where I dont even know he is active. DQ could be a good signing if he takes team friendly deal.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, finn said:

I thought he did a good job overall. Should have adjusted when the Chiefs stacked the box (or appeared to) in the fourth quarter. My only other criticism is that he kept going to Diggs instead of Shakir. One dropped passes, didn't get open, fumbled, and dropped passes, and the other caught everything, ran well after the catch, and was clutch. Brady should have recognized the changing of the guard even before the game. All those targets to Diggs were wasted. The guy is washed. 

 

I wonder if they could have done better if they had ignored Diggs and focused on Shakir, Kincaid, and Cook. 

I think the Diggs drops factored in to Josh looking to Shakir in the EZ.  Cook is not a reliable pass catcher with his stone hands. So all that leaves is Kincaid & Shakir as reliable. 

[CSBill]

2 hours ago, Billever76 said:

I think the offense issues go beyond the OC and players....this offense has been forced into a box that is our coaches vision..so we won't get an oc in here with 100% control of making an offensive system to his liking...that  alone needs to be very concerning bc no proven top level offensive mind is gonna come here and be limited to how he can run his offense 

And you know this, how?

[flmike]

58 minutes ago, MWK said:

It is hilarious to me how people use players endorsing Brady as a reason why we should keep him. Players endorsed Ken Dorsey too.

We use our own eyes to endorse Brady. He is a big reason we ran the table at the end of the season with a patchwork D.

[BananaB]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I think the Diggs drops factored in to Josh looking to Shakir in the EZ.  Cook is not a reliable pass catcher with his stone hands. So all that leaves is Kincaid & Shakir as reliable. 

Remember in TC when this board was trying to run Shakir out of the building because of drops. Happy for him. Love seeing it

[Toledo Bill]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

Not sure Knox should play the rest of his career with Josh Allen

 

He’s no longer a value play

But he’s a Josh Buddy 🙄

[BearNorth]

Houston went to the playoffs with a 22 year old quarterback throwing to 25 (Collins) and 24 (Dell) year old wideouts, all on rookie contracts, with Motor as the lead RB.  Skill positions are increasingly biased towards the young and the fast.

[Cray51]

14 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

Houston went to the playoffs with a 22 year old quarterback throwing to 25 (Collins) and 24 (Dell) year old wideouts, all on rookie contracts, with Motor as the lead RB.  Skill positions are increasingly biased towards the young and the fast.

Young legs are important now.  DBs are learning how to deal with the lack of holding allowed, and players are being more physical at the line.  Layered routes are important, and young legs to get that late burst to create necessary separation are vital

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, BananaB said:

Most people would consider going to your most reliable WR while he’s open in the endzone would be a smart play. Not Bills fans though, the best play is to cut it short and hope we have an another opportunity at the endzone in upcoming plays. Why? Because our defensive minded coach has let us down so many times late in games. 😂

 

It's true that in terms of catch % Shakir is now the leading WR on the Bills. 

 

But in terms of targets, he still has only 45.  Diggs all alone for a sure 1st down would be considered "your most reliable WR" by many.  He really SHOULD be the most reliable WR on the Bills - being paid like it.

 

I think from Josh Allen's POV, a ball thrown to Diggs might have been tipped, the DL was that close to on top of him.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

53 minutes ago, BananaB said:

  
🤣 
The play was there. We needed a TD and it was one of very few times our WR got open down field.  They were shutting down our run and the 3 times we were in the redzone before that it  took an amazing throw to the pylon on the run to get into the ball in the endzone. Just because we continue the drive does not mean we will get a better opportunity. The play was there, WR was open, protection did not hold up. Which sucks because it was great all game

So you're admitting that Josh passed up the easy receiver for ten yards to gun it to the end zone taking the risk that protection would break down when he had. 

 

Dude did you tune in at the 2 minute earn? The Bills had gone 55 yards purposely bleeding the clock. The ball was moving. Brady had fired up blitz beaters that were averaging 6-8 yards a play. They were 25 yards away. If Allen completes it to Diggs it's at the 15 while strangling the Chiefs.

 

And if they don't get a TD? Congrats, you've gotten Bass a kick he can hopefully make but with less chance of a KC last minute score. If Diggs drops it congrats you are where the Bills wound up anyway.

 

I'm not calling for Josh to be pilloried. But he made a mistake in an otherwise excellent game. It wasn't even a fatal one, but it was the first in a fatal string. 

[appoo]

52 minutes ago, billsfanmd07 said:

The entire D Line disappeared. Floyd was a force the first half the year. I really dont remember seeing him do much the last month or so. I still feel like Groot should make more impact place as well. We still have no one that needs to be game planned for.   Floyd following money is what i would expect. Ep makes splash plays but goes games where I dont even know he is active. DQ could be a good signing if he takes team friendly deal.

Both DLines did. They weren’t calling holding on either team. Refs decided that DLines weren’t gonna touch the QBs this game. Thag pressure on Allen in the 4th on the Kalil throw in the end zone was basically the only pressure Chris Jones got all day 

[Utah John]

3 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

Jones & Jackson shouldn't cost that much. Floyd might be.

People around the league will remember how dominant Jones was early in the season, until his injury in London.  I don't think he was 100% when he came back but I appreciate the effort.  Unfortunately no matter who was in the middle of our D line last night, the interior of the Chiefs' O line dominated them.  Way too many holes for Pacheco to exploit.  Anyway, getting back to contracts, I expect Jones to get a lot of interest.

22 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

So you're admitting that Josh passed up the easy receiver for ten yards to gun it to the end zone taking the risk that protection would break down when he had. 

 

Dude did you tune in at the 2 minute earn? The Bills had gone 55 yards purposely bleeding the clock. The ball was moving. Brady had fired up blitz beaters that were averaging 6-8 yards a play. They were 25 yards away. If Allen completes it to Diggs it's at the 15 while strangling the Chiefs.

 

And if they don't get a TD? Congrats, you've gotten Bass a kick he can hopefully make but with less chance of a KC last minute score. If Diggs drops it congrats you are where the Bills wound up anyway.

 

I'm not calling for Josh to be pilloried. But he made a mistake in an otherwise excellent game. It wasn't even a fatal one, but it was the first in a fatal string. 

That play will stick in my mind all offseason.  I was screaming at the TV, Diggs is open! Diggs is wide open!  A simple throw and catch and the Bills have the first down and can burn clock and KC's TOs.  Maybe the Bills get the TD they need for a four point lead, forcing Mahomes to drive the entire field.  Maybe they stall and kick a shorter FG.  Either way, Josh made a terrible decision on that play.  Regardless, that play should not detract from appreciating the incredible game Josh had otherwise.  

[PayDaBill$]

All the posters saying no to Brady are ridiculous. 
 

7-2 using your the old OC’s playbook, while being thrown to the wolves  after a crap first half of the season while facing the most difficult part of the schedule. 

Nah he doesn’t deserve a shot…. Smh!

Work on upgrading the WR’s (JA deserves legit weapons) and get younger in the defensive back 7 &  bigger @ the LB spots.

A lot to be done with the crap $50M cap as well. 

Edited January 23 by PayDaBill$

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'm not sure what this means?

Waving goodbye to Gabe Davis.  

 

Retaining him for more than 5M a year would be a massive mistake imo.  Draft his replacement in rd 1

[BillMafia716ix]

Anybody shocked that #14 didn’t speak. The so called captain. Smh

[Toledo Bill]

1 hour ago, appoo said:

Both DLines did. They weren’t calling holding on either team. Refs decided that DLines weren’t gonna touch the QBs this game. Thag pressure on Allen in the 4th on the Kalil throw in the end zone was basically the only pressure Chris Jones got all day 

That’s a great point… I was shocked there were no line holding calls but that definitely could have contributed to Jones and Oliver being ineffective for the first time in a long while.

[BearNorth]

28 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Waving goodbye to Gabe Davis.  

 

Retaining him for more than 5M a year would be a massive mistake imo.  Draft his replacement in rd 1

Spotrac is saying Gabe's market value is $13MM AAV contract.

[boyst]

5 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

We should absolutely look to see who else is out there and not just hand him the job, but I dont see many better candidates jumping off the screen, and I also don't knock Brady for some of the issues that come with inheriting a flawed system from an incompetent OC.

 

I also agree with Rousseau that McD is a good Defensive Coordinator and would do well working under a true Head Coach.

Trade McDermott to Carolina for a 2nd, 3rd and next year's first. Sign Belichick.

 

Or tell him Belichick is the captain now.