Bills @ Chiefs Postgame Thread

[Mango]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

I didn't see it this way. I didn't see the offense being tight or super conservative. I saw them struggling to handle the Chief's pressure. The looked out of sync not right or passive to me. 

I agree they struggled with the pressure and were certainly out of sync. Second half gave me Dorsey vibes.
 

But I don’t think they went conservative at all. In fact I thought they were trying too hard to make something big happen. 

[Steptide]

I am legit shocked at the amount of kc fans on Twitter right now crying about the flag. How much more obvious can it be? 

 

 

[Airseven]

3 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

Yeah the Bills won but I haven't seen anywhere that the defense once again let the opponent drive the field and score. Granted the play was called back due to the offside but Kelce was wide the eff open again. Credit the Bills for stopping KC after that but still doesnt change the soft defense before that point. This is very concerning because teams generally do not shoot themselves in the foot like KC did.

 

And the offense once again stopped scoring TDs, settled for the late FG (with some odd clock management), and turned the game over to the defense. At 6-6 though, a win is a win is a win. Just have to hope some good fortune boosts them into next week. 

[GaryPinC]

3 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I believe you but really, should this matter? 

 

And btw I do not blame the OC. McDermott should have stepped in and overruled these calls. 

I believe the thinking was two-fold:  try to continue to move the ball to eat the clock and keep Mahomes off the field and the fact that KC's D-line was dominating our O-line at the time necessitating quick passing plays, especially as our running plays were getting stomped in the second half. 

 

I would have liked to see them put Allen under center 1st down and play action pass but that's just me.  

 

On D, this is one of the first high-profile games I recall McD keeping the heat on the QB late rather than playing extra-man zones that get picked apart.  I do blame McD for 13 seconds, so it means a lot to me to witness his different thinking approach this time around.  If the Kelce back pass had succeeded, at least Allen would have the ball back with over a minute to work with.

 

And this was a playoff game, not just us winning a mid-season contest against them.  Mahomes' Karen-style snit proves that. 

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, Mango said:

The talk today would have been a lot different had KT wasn’t offside.
 

The conversation today would have been about that missed TD to Davis. We never should have been in position where that lateral mattered. 
 

Special game ball to Frank Wycheck for not letting this happen to Buffalo twice. 

 pretty telling that had we surrendered yet another late game collapse to give up the losing TD you think the conversation would have been about a missed throw on offense tbh

[Beck Water]

14 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Dunno if this was mentioned before ... I think Travis Kelce in honor of the "Music City Miricle" play and the now late Frank Wycheck's throwback, Travis threw it back for a resulting TD.

 

A darn shame it didn't count as it would have been the play of the day. 😢

 

 

😁

 

Am I the only one to whom it occurs: if Toney isn't so far offside there, does he make it to the same place at the same time to receive that lateral?

 

I don't think you can change one part of one play, and assume the rest of the play is equivalent.

[Pokebball]

1 minute ago, Steptide said:

I am legit shocked at the amount of kc fans on Twitter right now crying about the flag. How much more obvious can it be? 

 

 

I get arguing and complaining about bad or even questionable calls. Complaining about correct calls is going to get much traction with anybody. It's whining!

[mannc]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

Am I the only one to whom it occurs: if Toney isn't so far offside there, does he make it to the same place at the same time to receive that lateral?

 

I don't think you can change one part of one play, and assume the rest of the play is equivalent.

Exactly.  It’s not as if Toney wasn’t involved in the play…

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

No but I will try to be a voice of reason. Hoping you can do the same. 

You have proven by your actions that you can’t be reasonable.  We know you are extreme negative, you don’t have to keep highlighting it.  

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

PM: "One of the worst f'ing calls I've ever seen"

JA: "What?"

PM: "Offensive Offside...<?Kermit noises?>. F'ing terrible"

 

Did he expect sympathy from JA on that field after that result?  

 

Because I'm pretty sure that Josh is walking away not giving a rip about his whining.   

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

 pretty telling that had we surrendered yet another late game collapse to give up the losing TD you think the conversation would have been about a missed throw on offense tbh

 

I thought the idea was to score more points than the other guy

 

Two ways to accomplish that: 1) give up fewer 2) score more

 

Maybe it's telling that you think it's telling that someone wants to consider both?

[GaryPinC]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

Am I the only one to whom it occurs: if Toney isn't so far offside there, does he make it to the same place at the same time to receive that lateral?

 

I don't think you can change one part of one play, and assume the rest of the play is equivalent.

I think our secondary was so concerned with Kelce that the play would still succeed.  It was a great playcall.

[GoBills808]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

I thought the idea was to score more points than the other guy

 

Two ways to accomplish that: 1) give up fewer 2) score more

 

Maybe it's telling that you think it's telling that someone wants to consider both?

27 would be equal the most scored against KC this season

 

if you thought we were going to put up a bunch of points yesterday dunno what to tell you

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, BillsVet said:

 

Did he expect sympathy from JA on that field after that result?  

 

Because I'm pretty sure that Josh is walking away not giving a rip about his whining.   

 

I thought Allen's tap on Mahome's chest before walking away was like "yeah, whatever, bro"

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I was expecting our corners to play 10 yards off every snap, allowing Mahomes to dink and dunk his way down the field, and to McDermott's credit, he had them closer to 4-yards off on 2/3 snaps. 

 

 

[Warcodered]

6 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I am legit shocked at the amount of kc fans on Twitter right now crying about the flag. How much more obvious can it be? 

 

 

Toney: Man isn't the O-line going to get in trouble for being in the backfield?

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

27 would be equal the most scored against KC this season

 

if you thought we were going to put up a bunch of points yesterday dunno what to tell you

 

I thought we were gonna have to put up a bunch of points yesterday.  I didn't think 20 would do it.

 

My point is if we're gonna "whatif" various plays, why is only one side of the ball fair game?  Shouldn't both be fair game?  We could have scored there.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Beck Water

[GoBills808]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

I thought we were gonna have to put up a bunch of points yesterday.  My point is if we're gonna "whatif" various plays, why is only one side of the ball fair game?  Shouldn't both be fair game?  We could have scored there.

lmfao

 

i was responding to a guy doing whatif, please stay w the conversation or don't @ me

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

I missed that, did they (Mahomes and Reid) really?  considering they were gifted a late hit/UR call on Mahomes that sustained a drive, That's Some *****.

Then he lied in his postgame yesterday when he started complaining about the calls in the Packers game saying he didn't complain about them.

33 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Do folks not realize what an absolute GIFT it is for the Bills for Mahomes and Reid to blast the officials for doing their jobs?  
 

Good luck getting helpful calls now, Kermit.

Right in the run up to the game learning about Kelce's comments about the ref of the game thought they might have a problem with that particular ref. These really loud comments are the kind of ones that get you a problem with more than just that one.

[Warriorspikes51]

KC is entitled. Their OL has lined up illegally on so many plays this year you can't count. 

[Scott7975]

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

We'll have to agree to disagree, then.

 

I think this highlights an instance where sometimes statistics can be a forest that hides changes in the trees (and I say this as a stats geek)

 

It used to be true that Jackson would take the short throws to the TE across the field, and deep throws down the middle of the field, but he couldn't make the deeper throws to the sideline.  It allowed teams to focus their defenses after the pattern developed.  Then he started taking those throws, but not necessarily making them.  I can't tell you if it's better WR, or if he's just kept working on it, but I think opponents recognize this year, they have to defend those areas now.

 

I'm sure there are stats that track this somewhere

 

Yeah, I'll disagree and not turn this into a huge back and forth.  I do want to say though that it isn't just the stats.  I watched several games and he was still the same Lamar.  He has two very good receivers and a top TE until he was injured.  Statistically he should be doing a lot better but he isn't.  I still see him take off and run because he couldn't read the field.  He takes a lot of sacks because he couldn't read the field.  Yes, he does make some good throws but he has always made some good throws.

 

 

[Warriorspikes51]

their OL is literally like a flying V formation.  It gives the OT's a competitive advantage when they are that far back 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

19 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I didn't see it this way. I didn't see the offense being tight or super conservative. I saw them struggling to handle the Chief's pressure. The looked out of sync not right or passive to me. 

I think this is partly true but I think there's a sentiment that the Bills fizzle out in the playoffs. I heard on the radio guys saying they don't trust the Bills D in crunch time. Hard to argue with that when taking in the past. 

When criticizing the bills specifically it makes more sense…I wouldn’t disagree with that.  But chiefs/ravens/dolphins would def much rather see the Steelers or bengals or colts than us guaranteed.  
 

if we end up the 7 seed I think the 2 seed will be the least comfy team wildcard weekend 

[Scott7975]

29 minutes ago, julian said:

Didn’t McDermott’s still have to get a 3rd and 4th down stop to win the game after the “fluke mistake” ?

 

and a 2nd.  It was 2nd and 15 after that play/penalty.

[Beck Water]

17 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

lmfao

 

i was responding to a guy doing whatif, please stay w the conversation or don't @ me

 

Dude.  This is what you said that I was responding to:

" pretty telling that had we surrendered yet another late game collapse to give up the losing TD you think the conversation would have been about a missed throw on offense tbh"

 

I'm "with" the conversation just fine.

 

You were criticizing him for an offensive "whatif" as "pretty telling" (whatever that means, but it's usually used critically) by making a defensive "whatif" ("had we surrendered yet another late game collapse")

 

7 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

their OL is literally like a flying V formation.  It gives the OT's a competitive advantage when they are that far back 

 

Not to mention the false starts.  The refs do call 'em, but not nearly as often as the RT does 'em.

 

8 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Yeah, I'll disagree and not turn this into a huge back and forth.  I do want to say though that it isn't just the stats.  I watched several games and he was still the same Lamar.  He has two very good receivers and a top TE until he was injured.  Statistically he should be doing a lot better but he isn't.  I still see him take off and run because he couldn't read the field.  He takes a lot of sacks because he couldn't read the field.  Yes, he does make some good throws but he has always made some good throws.

 

 

 

Fair. We're just seeing it differently.  When I've watched, I found myself saying repeatedly "wow, 2 years ago Lamar doesn't hit that".

Edited December 11, 2023 by Beck Water

[major]

Kadarius Toney in the neutral zone with the game on the line.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Dude.  This is what you said that I was responding to:

" pretty telling that had we surrendered yet another late game collapse to give up the losing TD you think the conversation would have been about a missed throw on offense tbh"

 

I'm "with" the conversation just fine.

 

You were criticizing him for an offensive "whatif" as "pretty telling" (whatever that means, but it's usually used critically) by making a defensive "whatif" ("had we surrendered yet another late game collapse")

no

 

this is the comment i responded to

 

34 minutes ago, Mango said:

The talk today would have been a lot different had KT wasn’t offside.
 

The conversation today would have been about that missed TD to Davis. We never should have been in position where that lateral mattered. 
 

Special game ball to Frank Wycheck for not letting this happen to Buffalo twice. 

 ffs

 

@Mango will you please help this poster out

[Steptide]

Not hearing kc fans complain about the absolutely atrocious holding call on dion Dawkins that was at a pivotal time 🤷

[Scott7975]

34 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Am I the only one to whom it occurs: if Toney isn't so far offside there, does he make it to the same place at the same time to receive that lateral?

 

I don't think you can change one part of one play, and assume the rest of the play is equivalent.

 

Yeah he woulda made it. He was just standing there waiting for it for a while. A half yard difference at the line wouldn't have stopped him from getting there.

32 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I thought Allen's tap on Mahome's chest before walking away was like "yeah, whatever, bro"

 

Watch Josh face too.  He was like umm ok.

16 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Dude.  This is what you said that I was responding to:

" pretty telling that had we surrendered yet another late game collapse to give up the losing TD you think the conversation would have been about a missed throw on offense tbh"

 

I'm "with" the conversation just fine.

 

You were criticizing him for an offensive "whatif" as "pretty telling" (whatever that means, but it's usually used critically) by making a defensive "whatif" ("had we surrendered yet another late game collapse")

 

 

Not to mention the false starts.  The refs do call 'em, but not nearly as often as the RT does 'em.

 

 

Fair. We're just seeing it differently.  When I've watched, I found myself saying repeatedly "wow, 2 years ago Lamar doesn't hit that".

 

I mean, we could have watched different games with different results too.  Maybe he did better in the games you watched.  I honestly don't even remember the games I watched.  I know one of them was the Pitts game.

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, Steptide said:

Not hearing kc fans complain about the absolutely atrocious holding call on dion Dawkins that was at a pivotal time 🤷

That’s kind of the point.  That was a judgment call.  I probably would have let it go, but I can see how a reasonable mind concluded otherwise.  It was fair. 

 

The Toney issue was not a judgment call.  It was black and white.  He lined up offside.  

 

I’m sure the chiefs would have had a problem if Leonard Floyd was lined up a foot offside on 4th and 15, affected the throw and, not previously having been warned about misalignment, was not penalized for that action.  The complaining about a factual, obvious, and non discretionary ruling that went against them is poor sportsmanship and they come off as a bunch of whiners and sore losers.   

[Cheektowaga Chad]

This would be a good time for bills Mafia to come through and help out Travis Kelce

 

Guy just had his hall of fame career ruined by toney lining up Offside and the ref having the audacity to call the penalty

 

$19 to whatever foundation Travis has? 

 

Who is with me!?

[Royale with Cheese]

I don't think Chris Jones gets enough credit as to how good he is.  I know everyone knows he's good but he's absolutely dominant.  He needs to be mentioned with Parsons, Watt and Garrett as game changers.

[The Wiz]

🤣(make sure you look at the image)

 

 

[Scott7975]

I took a screen grab of the Offside with a bit lower angle.  Not that it was necessary because we all know he was Offside but I wanted to anyhow.  Sorry its faded but I took it from NFL.com highlights of the game and when I pause it does that.  You can click it to enlarge.

 

 

You can't really tell from the highlights but I'd love to see the all 22 because Toney ran into the guy covering Kelce.  That is probably why he got so open but the broadcast doesn't show enough to see.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Scott7975

[Ralonzo]

1 hour ago, BRH said:

 

 

It's almost like they thought it would look more like a straight line to the refs if Toney lined up a yard ahead of the ball and the RT lined up a yard behind it.  A little trick of perspective.  Problem is, there are actually yard lines and *****.

 

There was the 25-yard line during the Home Run Throw Forward too. I hope Wycheck was able to confess to making a Forward Pass, for the sake of his immortal soul.

[jimmy10]

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

4 straight at Allenhead in regular season tho.

 

Why do we win in the regular season but lose to them in the playoffs?

 

Is it home-field advantage?

 

Is it better coaching?  If so, why doesn't Reid and his staff outcoach McD and his during the regular season?

 

Do their players handle the stress of playoff games better than our players? 

 

Or is it just freaking luck?  The teams are more-or-less evenly matched so some days things go their way and some days things go ours.  

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by hondo in seattle

[SectionC3]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I took a screen grab of the Offside with a bit lower angle.  Not that it was necessary because we all know he was Offside but I wanted to anyhow.  Sorry its faded but I took it from NFL.com highlights of the game and when I pause it does that.

 

He’s a full yard in front of the attached tight end.  I just noticed that.  

 

Some of this is horizontal alignment, too.  If he’s split wide, that probably isn’t called.  But it also isn’t as noticeable as it was given his proximity to the ball and his location between the tight ends. 

Just now, hondo in seattle said:

 

Why do we win in the regular season but lose to them in the playoffs?

 

Is it home-field advantage?

 

Is it better coaching?  If so, why doesn't Reid and his staff outcoach McD and his during the regular season?

 

Do their players handle the stress of playoff games better than our players? 

 

Or is it just freaking luck?  

Once we got beat pretty soundly and the other time was just historic ineptitude/an incredible quarterback.  They’re a good team, too, so it’s going to happen.  

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

He’s a full yard in front of the attached tight end.  I just noticed that.  

 

Some of this is horizontal alignment, too.  If he’s split wide, that probably isn’t called.  But it also isn’t as noticeable as it was given his proximity to the ball and his location between the tight ends. 

Once we got beat pretty soundly and the other time was just historic ineptitude/an incredible quarterback.  They’re a good team, too, so it’s going to happen.  

 

Yes and technically they should be calling the RT for illegal formation as well.  Dude is not on the ball.  He has been getting away with that and false starts all year long. I mean he gets penalized a lot for it but he still keeps doing it with no calls too.

[wppete]