Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[Rico]

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The odd thing is that he's not wrong! It's genuinely amazing what they pulled off (through teamwork and careful, deliberate planning, TBH), although it was of course diabolical. What the Japanese pulled off between December 1941 and April 1942 was amazing too given the geographical scope and geopolitical complexity, but again the goals were bad. I guess the lesson is to never bring up well-conceived plans that succeed beyond all ambition if they're crafted by the bad guys. 

I’ve known more than one person way back when who would say Hitler was a genius. I tried to avoid them whenever possible. 

[Scott7975]

9 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

We don’t know the entire context of the situation.  Ty makes a very short statement of what happened, without any acknowledgment of apology and follow up conversation.

 

let the reader make the determination of character.  Don’t point the reader to a conclusion, provide all evidence for them to craft their own

 

I'm going to quote you again and again leave the quote from the article since you ignored that it exists in the article and ignored my comment to you that it exists in the article.  

 

Quote

When McDermott walked onto the practice field, he apologized and explained what he was trying to say with the reference. One vet found his apology very sincere, while another believes he only doubled down.

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Scott7975

[Nephilim17]

9 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Next big speech, how to go on a roll using Jeffrey Dahmer.  

 

 

Or...

 

Never give up! Ted Bundy was captured, sent to prison and escaped! 
 

Disguise your intentions, men! Just like Bundy wore a cast and pretended to have a broken arm when he asked young women to help him load his truck before locking them in there! 

[dpberr]

I don't think much gets past Bills corporate without them knowing about it beforehand.  The timing is curious.   Corporate had to know about it. 

 

Why you'd deploy it on the Thursday before the biggest game of the season is weird.  This article could have dropped literally any day of the season.    

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

He posted it today, the time of the quote has nothing to do with the time of what he wrote around it.

It would if it was quoted last year.  It was the first year Hughes left the Bills, was the starter, put up his second highest sack total in his career and is from Houston.  Sounds to me like a guy loving life on his new team.

[ShakAttack]

Great timing for all of this.  Ugh. 

[Cray51]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I'm going to quote you again and again leave the quote from the article since you twice now have completely ignored it exists, yet you want to argue "selective" while being "selective" yourself.

 

 

Woah, I was wrong.  That part is not in the free version, so I don’t have visibility to that context 

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I don't think much gets past Bills corporate without them knowing about it beforehand.  The timing is curious.   Corporate had to know about it. 

 

Why you'd deploy it on the Thursday before the biggest game of the season is weird.  This article could have dropped literally any day of the season.    

 

 

 

The Bills have no control over independent media.  

 

 

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I don't think much gets past Bills corporate without them knowing about it beforehand.  The timing is curious.   Corporate had to know about it. 

 

Why you'd deploy it on the Thursday before the biggest game of the season is weird.  This article could have dropped literally any day of the season.    

 

 

 

Not necessarily in Tyle Dunne's case.  They won't give him any media credentials and he didn't reveal sources that wanted to remain anonymous.  He really has nothing to lose by not giving them a heads up.  Maybe a credential journalist would.

[davefan66]

4 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

The 9/11 anecdote will pass.  Give it a week and people will be talking about something else, whatever it might be.  Don’t forget, at one point our owner was accused of making a pretty incendiary racial comment.  Nobody has brought that up in awhile. 

 

The bigger issue is whether, 9/11 and Niagara Falls malapropisms aside, McD has lost/exhausted the locker room.  If the answer to that question is yes, then it’s time to either change the players or change the coach.  

National media has a way of dumping on the Bills.  We will hear about the 9/11 comments longer than we should.

 

The cap probably would get in the way of changing the players.  Which shouldn’t be a thought anyways.  If  he doesn’t have the skills to be the HC, get rid of him. Especially if he’s lost the room, players won’t be able to make up for his inadequacies forever.

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

Woah, I was wrong.  That part is not in the free version, so I don’t have visibility to that context 

 

Cool man.  I just didn't want you to keep running around saying it then everyone else think it's fact and all that jazz.

[Nextmanup]

25 minutes ago, Process said:

A three part, targeted hit piece relieving things that happened behind closed doors years ago was not necessary and serves no purpose other than to humiliate a guy that is still currently the HC of the team. 

You write this as if to suggest it's some sort of "bad" thing.

 

You do realize it is not the media's job to engage in pro Bills spin, right?

They have their own PR department for that.

 

 

[Beck Water]

Just now, BananaB said:

I wanted the guy gone because of poor game management. McD seems like a good guy though and this is really dragging him through the mud. 

 

That’s not too far from where I am.  One philosophy is the Rooney family, “hire good people and give them time to figure it out”.  There are plenty of examples of teams which have pulled the plug on a coach who was “good but not good enough” and spent seasons regretting it - Denver with Kubiak/Phillips; Philly with Reid etc. Sometimes teams move on for a “hot young name” who sometimes turns out to be “not all that”.

 

On the other hand, especially this season the questionable game management decisions and just general mistakes (12 men on field, etc) have mounted up.  If you ask me “do’s I think the Buffalo Bills can win a Super Bowl with Sean McDermott?” Before the end of last season I would have said “yes”, before this article I would have said “I don’t know” or “I’m not sure”.  

 

I do think that Pegula does not like to be publicly embarrassed and this will not go over well with him.

[BRH]

I haven’t read all 45 pages of this but I will bet anything that Russ Brandon is one of the sources. 

[ShakAttack]

22 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

He's earned at least $50M already, and will likely bring in another $50M even if he is fired.

 

We're all a bunch of internet-nobodies commenting on this (here, social media, etc) and nothing we say really matters in the grand scheme of things.

 

Don't feel too bad for him. He'll be fine.

 

I'd let all of you say these mean things about me for way less money. It happens for free today!

 

You’re right. In fact, this article makes me feel bad … for myself, and the rest of us “internet nobodies” in here that root for this franchise and we are mostly all back on the “we can beat KC!!!” Bandwagon only to have this come out right before the game.  Another distraction, for a team that is mentally weak, before the most important game of the year. Thanks a lot, Tyler Dunne. Jerk. 

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

And then never played another down in the league because he has the mental disposition of a child.

It's not that; tons of these guys have the mental disposition of a child.

 

He just wasn't good enough for the team to put up with it.

 

 

[Strethor]

Just win and this goes away, lose and it becomes a sticking point. 

[NoSaint]

16 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

We don’t know the entire context of the situation.  Ty makes a very short statement of what happened, without any acknowledgment of apology and follow up conversation.

 

let the reader make the determination of character.  Don’t point the reader to a conclusion, provide all evidence for them to craft their own

yea, as it turns out it was referenced in the article with mixed player feedback sooooo you can make your own decision 

[Goin Breakdown]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

I don't know... the players on the whole might really like McDermott as a coach and view this as a hit job.  They might also believe he's a very good man (which he seems to be) and be even more offended by an article that gets incredibly personal in its attacks of him.

 

It'll be interesting how the team responds.

Yeah I'm interested in this as well. Wonder if any players will speak on it in his defense. 

[DrDawkinstein]

18 minutes ago, BillsFooteball said:

I’m sure it’s somewhere in this thread can someone tell me how this was leaked? It happened in 2021 why is it just coming out now? Was it players who all of sudden don’t like McDermott then shared it with media?

 

Probably not enough of a story on it's own. But in a 3 article compilation of people recalling his "greatest hits", it's a good anecdote and makes for a few good paragraphs.

 

This is how he introduces it in the article:

Quote

And those in attendance will never forget training camp of 2019. The memory alone elicits a scattershot of emotions. One player’s eyes widen into saucers, horrified. One almost falls over, clapping and laughing hysterically. One cuts the question off before it’s asked, as if pleading the fifth: “I ain’t talking about that.”

 

Seven sources confirmed this story.

 

They call it the “9/11 speech,” and it’s seared into their memory forever.

 

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I don't think much gets past Bills corporate without them knowing about it beforehand.  The timing is curious.   Corporate had to know about it. 

 

Why you'd deploy it on the Thursday before the biggest game of the season is weird.  This article could have dropped literally any day of the season.    

 

Why do you think Bills corporate had to know about an article an Independent self-employed journalist who is not credentialed by the Bills and is not working inside the Bills facilities has written?

[Warcodered]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

It would if it was quoted last year.  It was the first year Hughes left the Bills, was the starter, put up his second highest sack total in his career and is from Houston.  Sounds to me like a guy loving life on his new team.

He's got 1 sack this year and isn't starting, the year that this was article was posted.

Quote

He’s currently loving life on a new team.

 

[Cray51]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Cool man.  I just didn't want you to keep running around saying it then everyone else think it's fact and all that jazz.

All good, appreciate the update.  From what I read, Ty writes to impose a perspective, and from my initial understanding he didn’t mention any apology particulars.  So obviously that was a red flag.  Good to know he mentioned it as a post paragraph in the article

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Strethor said:

Just win and this goes away, lose and it becomes a sticking point. 

It would be brutal for McDermott to come back to Buffalo after a loss.  Fans would stay on him.

[Goin Breakdown]

3 hours ago, Simon said:

 

These guys are playing for each other, not a coach.

I get what your saying but I mean I couldn't say one way or the other. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Goin Breakdown

[SCBills]

21 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Next big speech, how to go on a roll using Jeffrey Dahmer.  

 

 

McDermott in the film room. 

 

[Cray51]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

yea, as it turns out it was referenced in the article with mixed player feedback sooooo you can make your own decision 

Yes, someone mentioned that.  I will make my own decision, even with the overall verbiage used by Dunne to be steered one way IMO

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

That’s not too far from where I am.  One philosophy is the Rooney family, “hire good people and give them time to figure it out”.  There are plenty of examples of teams which have pulled the plug on a coach who was “good but not good enough” and spent seasons regretting it - Denver with Kubiak/Phillips; Philly with Reid etc. Sometimes teams move on for a “hot young name” who sometimes turns out to be “not all that”.

 

On the other hand, especially this season the questionable game management decisions and just general mistakes (12 men on field, etc) have mounted up.  If you ask me “do’s I think the Buffalo Bills can win a Super Bowl with Sean McDermott?” Before the end of last season I would have said “yes”, before this article I would have said “I don’t know” or “I’m not sure”.  

 

I do think that Pegula does not like to be publicly embarrassed and this will not go over well with him.

 

I do like/appreciate this part from the article:

 

Quote

His intent — players repeat — is pure.

 

The coach who ended the Bills’ 17-year playoff drought realizes how badly locals are dying for their first Super Bowl. The quest consumes him.

 

“He never, ever, ever does a damn thing with any other intention than to empower and grow the Buffalo Bills franchise,” this ex-Bill said. “That’s a fact. Now, whether or not the *****’s going to work or whether or not the players are going to receive it well? That’s a different conversation. But it doesn’t come from an evil ‘Sean McDermott wants all the praise and all the credit.’ He genuinely wants every person in that organization to thrive and win a lot of games to the point of exhaustion.

 

“All he wants to do is help that team win. Now, that’s the truth.”

 

But that’s the tricky thing about intent. A player could intend to block the man in front of him after endless hours of preparation but, if he’s steamrolled? He’s cut...

 

[WotAGuy]

I’m rounding up a crowd to meet the Bills’ plane after the Chiefs game. Bring your pitchforks (and tables)!!

[McBean]

11 hours ago, Buddy Hix said:

13 secs exposed McD's inability to be accountable, I knew it would turn out like this...right down to Pegula being unwilling to do what is needed. The next 2-3 seasons are going to be rough, and I bet it will take at least that many years for Pegula to actually make the right call.

Sadly, I agree

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

He's got 1 sack this year and isn't starting, the year that this was article was posted.

 

Levi Wallace isn’t a starter either.  Joey Porter Jr took his spot.

[Scott7975]

7 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

Woah, I was wrong.  That part is not in the free version, so I don’t have visibility to that context 

 

Im going to add this in another quote just in case you already read my last post... there are other pieces in the article from former players that liked McD and talked good about him.  I don't know if you were able to read those or not.  I am guessing probably not.  The article is not a 100% crap on McD.  When I read through the article I was thinking along the way things like "well that player kinda contradicts what he was saying."

 

I am not trying to say that this article wasn't meant to show McD is not the right coach for the Bills.  It certainly is that type of article but there are viewpoints in the article that spoke good of him too.

[SinceThe70s]

44 minutes ago, Process said:

This whole article just feels dirty and pathetic. 

 

The 9/11 comments were unbelievably stupid. It's hard to believe someone can be that dumb. But you can tell from McDermotts press conference today he was remorseful. I believe him when he said he apologized after it happened.

 

It happened years ago. I see zero need for it to be made public now, zero need for this article at all. 

 

McDermott needs to be fired. We all know that from what we see in the field. This article was completely unnecessary and a pathetic plea for attention. 

 

If this ends up being McD's undoing my comparison is Capone getting put away due to tax evasion. 

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

6 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

It's not that; tons of these guys have the mental disposition of a child.

 

He just wasn't good enough for the team to put up with it.

 

 

I agree with that.  My larger point is if his opinion really means much because of his mental disposition. 

[Process]

8 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

You write this as if to suggest it's some sort of "bad" thing.

 

You do realize it is not the media's job to engage in pro Bills spin, right?

They have their own PR department for that.

 

 

If it was reported on right after it happened I would have no issue with it. But to go through the effort of reaching out to 25 different "sources'" to dig up stories from years ago and write a full article about it is a personal attack and pathetic, attention seeking behavior.

[Cray51]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Im going to add this in another quote just in case you already read my last post... there are other pieces in the article from former players that liked McD and talked good about him.  I don't know if you were able to read those or not.  I am guessing probably not.  The article is not a 100% crap on McD.  When I read through the article I was thinking along the way things like "well that player kinda contradicts what he was saying."

 

I am not trying to say that this article wasn't meant to show McD is not the right coach for the Bills.  It certainly is that type of article but there are viewpoints in the article that spoke good of him too.

Much appreciated!

[BringBackFergy]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well his coaching record says otherwise regardless of anyones opinion.  And no, I am not excuse making for McD, I haven't made a single excuse for him. 

 

 

Did not flip flop on a single thing.  So no idea where you are getting that from.  Seems to me you are painting your own version of things I have said rather than taking the things I said at face value for what I actually said.  

 

This is what I mean...you are so rooted in your disdain for McD that you struggle to even comprehend what someone else might say if it isn't full of the same disdain you have.  Because throughout your post here, as you will see more below, you are completely off base in even understanding what I actually said in the posts you are responding to and referencing.  

 

 

Im not trying to be rude, but you clearly are not actually reading the posts you are responding to or just not paying attention when you do.  This exactly what I wrote in the very post you are responding to...and yet you still managed to write this reply above?

 

So should McD right now be fired...NO.  

Should he be if we miss the playoffs...YES.  

Should he be safe if we just make the playoffs...NO (but probably is).

 

I mean I literally stated right there that he should not be safe for just making the playoffs.  And then you go on to lecture me as if I am saying he should ONLY be fired if we MISS the playoffs?  Which is NOT at all what I said.  So you are again accusing me of saying or implying something that I did not do or say because you are either failing to comprehend what I actually said or just not reading the info you are responding to.    

 

 

 

I literally listed not getting rid of Dorsey SOONER is grounds for McD's future to be in jeopardy if the team does not turn it around.  I literally directly held him accountable and LITERALLY and VERBATIM said it should be one of the primary reasons why he should be fired if we do not turn the season around and make a deep playoff run.  Yet here you are again, completely making up some narrative and completely ignoring what I actually said.  

 

 

Again, you can't seem to separate someone being objective with someone who is an "apologist".  Nothing I have said makes me a McD apologist, I have literally stated not only in this thread, but in other threads, that his job should be on the line right now and if we miss the playoffs or squeak in and lose early or embarrassingly again that a HC change needs to happen.  Yet you keep coming at me twisting what I did say into things I did not say.  

Amazing you have enough time in the day to go on a crusade like this. I hope Tyler makes it over for Christmas dinner Mrs. Dunne. 

[McBean]

11 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Posters like me have been taking flak from this board for years when we criticized McDermott. 

Our only hope is just like Manning, Allen overcomes his moron HC. Dungy was a terrible coach that lucked into a top 4 QB of all time and still almost managed to never win a SuperBowl.  He should be in the Hall of Shame not the HOF. 

 

Let's hope Pegula looks back and sees what Tampa did to win a SuperBowl after years of Dungy failures.

 

 

I believe me and you were one of the originals back years ago on McClap.

 

I wanted him gone after AFC title game when he was kicking field goals down double digits .

 

13 seconds sent me over the edge and I’ve been beating the “fire McClap” drum on here for 2 years running.

 

He’s an outright moron who sounds like a narcissistic douche bag

[TheFunPolice]

1 hour ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

LOL - I just texted the same thought to my Jet fan friend (before seeing your comment).  Ironically he's a guy that told me recently he thought McD is a good coach.

 

We play there every season. That reception will be ugly 

[Simon]

6 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

I get what your saying but I mean I couldn't say one way or the other. 

 

If they were playing for something external, like a coach, it would have fallen apart well before now, imo.

I think they'll continue scrapping and grinding just as hard as they have been as long as the playoffs are a possibility.

After that, all bets are off.