I hope that Beane stops listening to McDermott when drafting

[margolbe]

The greatest strength of this team is offense, so we don't need to keep drafting undersized linebackers and corners who can't cover.

 

We need a true number 2 wide receiver (assuming Diggs stays), another offensive lineman (or two), a RB in the line of Murray, but with youth.  
On the defensive side we need someone to replace DeQuan Jones (assuming he goes elsewhere).  Don't know how Milano is going to recover, so we should consider his replacement.

 

I also think it would worth drafting a developmental quarterback so we don't all have to sweat when Josh takes a hard hit.

 

I hope that we also hire a defensive coordinator.  Although McDermott is a genius in his own mind, we need a fresh voice on defense.  We also need to fire the ST coach and get some one good in here.

[JohnNord]

I love how because McDermott is an unpopular figure around here, everything that’s gone wrong is his fault 🤣🤣😂

 

How do you know that it was McDermott who insisted on making these picks?  How do you know it wasn’t Beane who insisted on defense?

 

 

[Aussie Joe]

I actually like our undersized linebacker Bernard 

 

 

[margolbe]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

I love how because McDermott is an unpopular figure around here, everything that’s gone wrong is his fault 🤣🤣😂

 

How do you know that it was McDermott who insisted on making these picks?  How do you know it wasn’t Beane who insisted on defense?

 

 

Don't know for sure, but some of Beane's picks sure looked like stretches -- like he was told from McD that he needs this kind of player.

[CincyBillsFan]

6 minutes ago, margolbe said:

The greatest strength of this team is offense, so we don't need to keep drafting undersized linebackers and corners who can't cover.

 

We need a true number 2 wide receiver (assuming Diggs stays), another offensive lineman (or two), a RB in the line of Murray, but with youth.  
On the defensive side we need someone to replace DeQuan Jones (assuming he goes elsewhere).  Don't know how Milano is going to recover, so we should consider his replacement.

 

I also think it would worth drafting a developmental quarterback so we don't all have to sweat when Josh takes a hard hit.

 

I hope that we also hire a defensive coordinator.  Although McDermott is a genius in his own mind, we need a fresh voice on defense.  We also need to fire the ST coach and get some one good in here.

What you posted here is common sense NFL 101 backed up by all the available evidence.  And to make this really work we need to part ways with McD and fully turn the franchise in an offensive direction.

 

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, margolbe said:

The greatest strength of this team is offense, so we don't need to keep drafting undersized linebackers and corners who can't cover.

 

We need a true number 2 wide receiver (assuming Diggs stays), another offensive lineman (or two), a RB in the line of Murray, but with youth.  
On the defensive side we need someone to replace DeQuan Jones (assuming he goes elsewhere).  Don't know how Milano is going to recover, so we should consider his replacement.

 

I also think it would worth drafting a developmental quarterback so we don't all have to sweat when Josh takes a hard hit.

 

I hope that we also hire a defensive coordinator.  Although McDermott is a genius in his own mind, we need a fresh voice on defense.  We also need to fire the ST coach and get some one good in here.

They have Milano’s replacement with Williams, just as they had Edmunds replacement in Bernard.  I think Jones is signed for next year?  

[dorquemada]

it was the wasting of multiple high picks on DL that simply haven't been difference makers.  I assume that's McDefensless pressuring Beane to achieve his magical DL rotation but I guess we don't know that for fact?  In any case, I'm not sure Beane can do anything to protect this team from it's coach

[Beast]

No, we need a receiver that can be a #1 guy for a whole lot of reasons.

[margolbe]

McD looks like he just tolerates offense and thinks defense wins all the games.  He is stuck in an old coaching mentality and hasn't embraced the modern realities of the NFL.  The rules favor offense and we need an offensive minded staff, with a solid enough defense to prevent a collapse.  McD has not shown that he is capable of this.  Others have referred to him as a poor man's Dick Jauron.  He might be closer to a poor man's Chuck Knox.

Edited December 5, 2023 by margolbe
addition

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, margolbe said:

McD looks like he just tolerates offense and thinks defense wins all the games.  He is stuck in an old coaching mentality and hasn't embraced the modern realities of the NFL.  The rules favor offense and we need an offensive minded staff, with a solid enough defense to prevent a collapse.  McD has not shown that he is capable of this

So what about Kincaid ?

[margolbe]

Just now, Aussie Joe said:

So what about Kincaid ?

A good pick.  Why not another wide receiver and a backup quarterback?

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, margolbe said:

A good pick.  Why not another wide receiver and a backup quarterback?

So he is capable then …

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

So he is capable then …

First round offensive players are just better value overall for this team in that you are getting guys w NFL traits that get the luxury of playing w Allen, they are predisposed to succeed

 

Continuing to draft defensive players w first/second round picks and attempting (sometimes failing) to fit them into your scheme on defense is -ev imo

 

another first rounder on defense this past offseason would have been suicide

[Not at the table Karlos]

13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They have Milano’s replacement with Williams, just as they had Edmunds replacement in Bernard.  I think Jones is signed for next year?  

I think Oliver is the only DT under contract for next season ATM 

[HOUSE]

I knew Dalton  Kincaid would bust out

[Punching Bag]

16 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

I actually like our undersized linebacker Bernard 

 

 

 

Remember players drafted / traded for Beane picked; players drafted / traded for Coach McD asked for.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

20 minutes ago, margolbe said:

The greatest strength of this team is offense, so we don't need to keep drafting undersized linebackers and corners who can't cover.

 

We need a true number 2 wide receiver (assuming Diggs stays), another offensive lineman (or two), a RB in the line of Murray, but with youth.  
On the defensive side we need someone to replace DeQuan Jones (assuming he goes elsewhere).  Don't know how Milano is going to recover, so we should consider his replacement.

 

I also think it would worth drafting a developmental quarterback so we don't all have to sweat when Josh takes a hard hit.

 

I hope that we also hire a defensive coordinator.  Although McDermott is a genius in his own mind, we need a fresh voice on defense.  We also need to fire the ST coach and get some one good in here.

I agree with the spirit of this take. 

 

There hasn't been nearly enough investment into the offense in the Josh Allen era. 

 

Gabe Davis at 128th overall is the highest WR the Bills have selected, and the FA WRs here have been middle to low end free agents. Beasley was 30 when he got here and so was Brown. 

 

Offensive Line has mostly been a patch job with middle round picks and low-tier FAs. 

 

The most investment has been at RB and TE. 

 

Problem is with Floyd, Epenesa, Ford, Phillips, DaQuan, Settle, Lawson all headed towards UFA, there will have to be investment there. Now, I hope that Gabe Davis' impending FA forces the Bills hand at WR and they realize they should take one in the top half of Round 1. 

[DCofNC]

23 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They have Milano’s replacement with Williams, just as they had Edmunds replacement in Bernard.  I think Jones is signed for next year?  

Milano is one of the best in the game and Williams is struggling to hold his spot over a guy who wouldn’t have a spot in an NFL roster if McClappy wasn’t obsessed with ST play, in an era where it’s never meant less.

[JackKemp]

21 minutes ago, margolbe said:

McD looks like he just tolerates offense and thinks defense wins all the games.  He is stuck in an old coaching mentality and hasn't embraced the modern realities of the NFL.  The rules favor offense and we need an offensive minded staff, with a solid enough defense to prevent a collapse.  McD has not shown that he is capable of this.  Others have referred to him as a poor man's Dick Jauron.  He might be closer to a poor man's Chuck Knox.

We have one of the best offenses in the league. Is that McDermott and Beane or by chance? I don’t buy that Josh is the only reason we have an offense by the way. 

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, DCofNC said:

Milano is one of the best in the game and Williams is struggling to hold his spot over a guy who wouldn’t have a spot in an NFL roster if McClappy wasn’t obsessed with ST play, in an era where it’s never meant less.

I’m not going to compare him with Milano ( a great McD pick btw).. but Williams was pick 90 … sometimes it takes guys drafted around the end of the third a year to find their feet … see Bernard …

[TheyCallMeAndy]

36 minutes ago, margolbe said:

The greatest strength of this team is offense, so we don't need to keep drafting undersized linebackers and corners who can't cover.

 

We need a true number 2 wide receiver (assuming Diggs stays), another offensive lineman (or two), a RB in the line of Murray, but with youth.  
On the defensive side we need someone to replace DeQuan Jones (assuming he goes elsewhere).  Don't know how Milano is going to recover, so we should consider his replacement.

 

I also think it would worth drafting a developmental quarterback so we don't all have to sweat when Josh takes a hard hit.

 

I hope that we also hire a defensive coordinator.  Although McDermott is a genius in his own mind, we need a fresh voice on defense.  We also need to fire the ST coach and get some one good in here.

Just stop. There is no proof to this “McDictator ” nonsense that leads to his meddling being the root cause of every single issue. 

McD doesn’t have more or less say over the draft than Beane does, they’re a team along with the rest of the scouts. 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Milano is one of the best in the game and Williams is struggling to hold his spot over a guy who wouldn’t have a spot in an NFL roster if McClappy wasn’t obsessed with ST play, in an era where it’s never meant less.

Take a deep breath and think.  Milano has been in the league how long?  Now how long has Williams been in the league?  Thay's right, Williams is a rookie and he's learning.  I'll bet you were among those saying we had no replacement for Edmunds and that Bernard stunk based on his rookie year as well.  Am I right?

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I agree with the spirit of this take. 

 

There hasn't been nearly enough investment into the offense in the Josh Allen era. 

 

Gabe Davis at 128th overall is the highest WR the Bills have selected, and the FA WRs here have been middle to low end free agents. Beasley was 30 when he got here and so was Brown. 

 

Offensive Line has mostly been a patch job with middle round picks and low-tier FAs. 

 

The most investment has been at RB and TE. 

 

Problem is with Floyd, Epenesa, Ford, Phillips, DaQuan, Settle, Lawson all headed towards UFA, there will have to be investment there. Now, I hope that Gabe Davis' impending FA forces the Bills hand at WR and they realize they should take one in the top half of Round 1. 

 

I guess you mean Draft Investment. Because there has been a TON of Free Agency and trade investment into the Offense.

 

That said - Josh, Jimbo, Torrence, Dawkins, Brown, Knox, Kincaid, Davis, Shakir were all acquired via the draft. Heck even Diggs was acquired via a 1st round pick. (And we'll forget about Singletary and Moss since they are gone)

 

So outside of Morse and McGovern the entire starting Offense has been drafted.

 

I agree we should snag a WR early (and maybe more than 1 in this draft), but "investments" have been made in the Offense.

 

I think the main difference is more of our Offensive picks have hit, likely because of the Josh Effect, so we dont have to keep going back to the well like we do with DL (although one could argue 3 RBs and 2 early TEs is going back to the well).

 

[oldmanfan]

15 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

I think Oliver is the only DT under contract for next season ATM 

Yep, you're right.

[DrDawkinstein]

 

Just now, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Just stop. There is no proof to this “McDictator ” nonsense that leads to his meddling being the root cause of every single issue. 

McD doesn’t have more or less say over the draft than Beane does, they’re a team along with the rest of the scouts. 

 

Correction: McD has FAR LESS say in the draft than Beane does. Beane is the guy making the picks and ultimately responsible for them.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

25 minutes ago, margolbe said:

A good pick.  Why not another wide receiver and a backup quarterback?

And Torrance. Bills needed OL help more than they needed WR help. 

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Just stop. There is no proof to this “McDictator ” nonsense that leads to his meddling being the root cause of every single issue. 

McD doesn’t have more or less say over the draft than Beane does, they’re a team along with the rest of the scouts. 

 

Beane is the GM so I would think he has the final say on who the Bills pick.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Gregg

[TFBillsfan]

I may be in the minority but outside of adding WR and C, I don’t see many needs on the offensive side of the ball going into next season. The OL has been much better this year. If Morse retires or is cut, they’ll need to address it in the early rounds of the draft.

 

Defensively, we’ll  need to address S, DT, and Edge. Getting Milano and Jones back next year will be a big boost for the D.
 

I would assume we’ll add a punter next year.

 

The core issue with this team is coaching, execution, reducing offensive turnovers and  self inflicted mistakes. This has been a reoccurring issue the past three years and it’s likely gonna cost them making the playoffs.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, TFBillsfan said:

I may be in the minority but outside of adding WR and C, I don’t see many needs on the offensive side of the ball going into next season. The OL has been much better this year. If Morse retires or is cut, they’ll need to address it in the early rounds of the draft.

 

Defensively, we’ll  need to address S, DT, and Edge. Getting Milano and Jones back next year will be a big boost for the D.
 

I would assume we’ll add a punter next year.

 

The core issue with this team is coaching, execution, reducing offensive turnovers and  self inflicted mistakes. This has been a reoccurring issue the past three years and it’s likely gonna cost them making the playoffs.

Even at C they have Bates waiting to take over, and the kid Anderson as well.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

Correction: McD has FAR LESS say in the draft than Beane does. Beane is the guy making the picks and ultimately responsible for them.

 

Just now, Gregg said:

 

Beane is the GM so I would think he has the final say on the who the Bills pick.

Correct, to say McD ultimately meddles is ludicrous. 
 

He’s unpopular, so now he’s magically responsible for every single issue 🤦🏻

1 minute ago, TFBillsfan said:

I may be in the minority but outside of adding WR and C, I don’t see many needs on the offensive side of the ball going into next season. The OL has been much better this year. If Morse retires or is cut, they’ll need to address it in the early rounds of the draft.

 

Defensively, we’ll  need to address S, DT, and Edge. Getting Milano and Jones back next year will be a big boost for the D.
 

I would assume we’ll add a punter next year.

 

The core issue with this team is coaching, execution, reducing offensive turnovers and  self inflicted mistakes. This has been a reoccurring issue the past three years and it’s likely gonna cost them making the playoffs.

Agreed, and honestly we are coming off our best OL season in years, I want all 5 starters back. Maybe tack 1 more year on to Morse’s deal to spread the cap hit a little. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I guess you mean Draft Investment. Because there has been a TON of Free Agency and trade investment into the Offense.

 

That said - Josh, Jimbo, Torrence, Dawkins, Brown, Knox, Kincaid, Davis, Shakir were all acquired via the draft. Heck even Diggs was acquired via a 1st round pick. (And we'll forget about Singletary and Moss since they are gone)

 

So outside of Morse and McGovern the entire starting Offense has been drafted.

 

I agree we should snag a WR early (and maybe more than 1 in this draft), but "investments" have been made in the Offense.

 

I think the main difference is more of our Offensive picks have hit, likely because of the Josh Effect, so we dont have to keep going back to the well like we do with DL (although one could argue 3 RBs and 2 early TEs is going back to the well).

 

Our weapons consistently rank in the middle of the league. 

 

Last year, Allen squeezed 35 TDs passes out of Diggs, Davis, McKenzie, Knox and a part-time Cook (getting no significant contributions from Shakir, Crowder, Kumerow). 

 

Talking Emmanuel Sanders out of retirement to be your #2 WR for a year is not real investment. 

 

I stand by it - the view on offense has been we gave Josh Stefon Diggs to work with, he'll make everything else work. 

 

Kincaid and Torrence were finally steps in the right direction. 

 

 

 

 

[Don Otreply]

27 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

So what about Kincaid ?

What about him? every so often an above average offensive weapon is drafted, but it sure doesn’t make up for the constant lack of quality offensive draft picks that get used on guys like Boogie Basham…, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

[DCofNC]

8 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I agree with the spirit of this take. 

 

There hasn't been nearly enough investment into the offense in the Josh Allen era. 

 

Gabe Davis at 128th overall is the highest WR the Bills have selected, and the FA WRs here have been middle to low end free agents. Beasley was 30 when he got here and so was Brown. 

 

Offensive Line has mostly been a patch job with middle round picks and low-tier FAs. 

 

The most investment has been at RB and TE. 

 

Problem is with Floyd, Epenesa, Ford, Phillips, DaQuan, Settle, Lawson all headed towards UFA, there will have to be investment there. Now, I hope that Gabe Davis' impending FA forces the Bills hand at WR and they realize they should take one in the top half of Round 1. 

But but but but, they traded a first for Diggs, in a wildly deep WR class.  The pick they traded turned into Jefferson, they could have sent virtually the same package and had Lamb, why does is matter? CAP space.   Those guys are studs on rookie deals.  Yes they are going to get paid, BUT you could have saved 2 starting DTs worth of cap for 4/5 years and when you paid them, have a 24 year old, not a 30 year old.  That’s huge. 
 

For as much hate as I give Davis, he’s been a very productive 4th round pick and if he was playing the #3 the way he should be, nobody would be mad. 
 

The problem with the assets being spent on drafting D isn’t that you spent the picks, it’s that you didn’t hit on any of them.  Back to back DEs that were so impactful, you had to go sign an aging Miller to a monster deal and that obviously looks even worse now.   Oliver is fine, but 3 DTs after him are absolutely in a different league than he is.  Elam.. good lord.. that one cost us next years 3rd round pick and more money to make up for that gaffe in order to survive this year. 
 

The thing the apologist want to argue is the number of guys Beane drafted that are in the NFL.  The reality is, quantity is nice, but they’re no impact players.  Literally none.   There’s a chance that he finally hit with Kincaid, but that remains to be seen as right now he basically producing as a good slot WR.  Don’t get me wrong, love it, but that’s not a massive impact player, yet. 
 

The reason this team is in cap hell is poor drafting.  The reason this team is looked at as having lesser talent vs the other contenders is POOR DRAFTING.  If we want to be really honest, neither Beane nor McClappy would be here if they had not hit on Allen.  Without him elevating the entire team, both would be elsewhere.

[freddyjj]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

 I think Jones is signed for next year?  

No he is not per spotrac. He will be a UFA. 
 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/daquan-jones-14523/#:~:text=DaQuan Jones signed a 2,dead cap value of %2410%2C416%2C668.

 

[thenorthremembers]

52 minutes ago, margolbe said:

The greatest strength of this team is offense, so we don't need to keep drafting undersized linebackers and corners who can't cover.

 

We need a true number 2 wide receiver (assuming Diggs stays), another offensive lineman (or two), a RB in the line of Murray, but with youth.  
On the defensive side we need someone to replace DeQuan Jones (assuming he goes elsewhere).  Don't know how Milano is going to recover, so we should consider his replacement.

 

I also think it would worth drafting a developmental quarterback so we don't all have to sweat when Josh takes a hard hit.

 

I hope that we also hire a defensive coordinator.  Although McDermott is a genius in his own mind, we need a fresh voice on defense.  We also need to fire the ST coach and get some one good in here.

Right.  We should just start drafting guys who the coach cant use in his system.  Sounds like a great idea.

[BADOLBILZ]

54 minutes ago, margolbe said:

The greatest strength of this team is offense, so we don't need to keep drafting undersized linebackers and corners who can't cover.

 

We need a true number 2 wide receiver (assuming Diggs stays), another offensive lineman (or two), a RB in the line of Murray, but with youth.  
On the defensive side we need someone to replace DeQuan Jones (assuming he goes elsewhere).  Don't know how Milano is going to recover, so we should consider his replacement.

 

I also think it would worth drafting a developmental quarterback so we don't all have to sweat when Josh takes a hard hit.

 

I hope that we also hire a defensive coordinator.  Although McDermott is a genius in his own mind, we need a fresh voice on defense.  We also need to fire the ST coach and get some one good in here.

 

 

You lost me at RB being a draft priority of any sort.

 

But I am on board with them needing a DC if they retain McDermott.    I think McD calling the defense and not being able to juggle that with game management duties has lead directly to some of the losses.

[Bferra13]

45 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

it was the wasting of multiple high picks on DL that simply haven't been difference makers.  I assume that's McDefensless pressuring Beane to achieve his magical DL rotation but I guess we don't know that for fact?  In any case, I'm not sure Beane can do anything to protect this team from it's coach

Lol the creativity on this board never ceases to amaze. We've had McClappy, McStupid, McChoke, and now McDefenseless. That last one is a bit long to work, but still does somehow. 

[Deadstroke]

51 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

I actually like our undersized linebacker Bernard 

 

 

Not to mention, Milano.

[WotAGuy]

36 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

I think Oliver is the only DT under contract for next season ATM 

ATM??   I’m not sure this means what you think it means….

[34-78-83]

I'll be pissed if they keep drafting early defensive players like Kincaid and Torrence and Cook! Screw that Shakir guy too he can't cover anyone!