Giant elephant in room. Beane

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Harty being a $5M inactive today while Sherfield ran the wrong routes multiple times was a HUGE indictment on Beane’s pro personnel skills.

 

But we got rid of McKittrick.....

[ProcessImproverMan]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Beane built a team to peak last season.  It didn't work. This season was a wing and a prayer with an aging secondary and hoping ACLs tears fully recovered for a CB and your main Pass Rusher.  Competent coaching might have made due with the the wing and prayer.  But the Bills head coach is stale and figured out.  Every team in the NFL has a 2 minute script to beat the Bills and it works every single time this year.   
 

But other than the GMs for the chiefs and the eagles. Its not clear that there are any dramactically better GMs in the league. 

John Lynch for the 49ers is another...That team with Allen right now would be a super bowl winner guaranteed. 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Well, let’s start with Hyde and Poyer.  Move to Bernard.  Kincaid.  Just to start.

Oh for Christ sake. Beane wasn't on the team when they signed Poyer and Hyde

[PBF81]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

What WR did you want to give $5M this season that is playing better?

 

The Knox point is on coaching, which I will not argue. But Beane is giving the coaches talent. It's on them to use it properly.

 

Stick with the logic here.  

 

That's Beane's job, quite a few people here think he's done a fantastic job.  Take that up with them.  

 

Don't strap me with the issues he's created that I would not have let get to this point.  

 

 

[Billever76]

1 hour ago, <bills4life> said:

Beane is an enigma. Some claim he is a wizard. Others say he has missed out a lot on early round draft picks, has bad contracts, and now has aging and oft injured players on defense.  I’m curious to see what others think. What say you?

He assembled this team ass backwards to how the modern nfl runs....we should have built this offense to the max like miami did before we went caveman football....just the von Miller signing if put on the offense is an aj brown,Mike evans,devante Adam's caliber wr next to diggs...I won't even get into the high draft picks on the defense who do little to nothing 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Couple misses like Ford to be sure.  But look at a guy like Epenesa.  Took a bit but has come into his own.  Or Oliver who is having a great year.

Epenesa is a bust.  He hasn't come into anything. He would never see the field if Miller was healthy

[NastyNateSoldiers]

1 hour ago, Bagwell358 said:

He’s been bad. Really bad.

 

cap situation is a disaster, multiple day two picks are wasted and we are left with aging players at positions now costing us games.

 

he hit on Allen, made a nice trade for 14. 
 

what else?

Yup 6 drafts no difference makers other than Allen and that’s counting both sides of the ball! 

[Nelius]

Oliver and to a lesser extent Epenesa making the leap, in addition to Kincaid, makes the Beane scrutiny kind of dumb. Maybe if you're looking for the seventh or eighth most concerning thing to argue.

 

Epenesa was genius in retrospect. Beane got him after 5 other trash DE's that you never hear about any more were picked.

[PBF81]

6 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Take the QB off a lot of teams and they aren’t playoff teams. The QB matters 

 

Great, so that does not negate the argument.  

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Luka]

Beane should absolutely stay. With a competent head coach he could honestly be an even better GM. Remember, McDermott hired Beane. McDermott has way too much say in personnel decisions I bet. Some of the moves they make reek of Sean's nepotism and reluctance to work with anyone outside his circle. 

[Bagwell358]

7 minutes ago, BBFL said:

Dude this type of post and the ones blaming Allen aren’t accurate. I get it, that’s how you feel. But if you go into the Beane evaluation thread there’s multiple posts pointing out his history. 
 

It isn’t terrible or as bad as you would like to believe. He’s produced 2 or 3 key players out of every draft. That’s decent going if you ask me. Those same players aren’t just a role player either. The “failures” you believe aren’t actually failures as if you go by the draft history they are mostly in the later part of the draft. Some guys just don’t mesh with a system or team they are on and move elsewhere and become successful. Again, key contributors more than failures. You cannot hit on every player, the real test is whether you move on from them instead of wasting a roster spot and that more often comes down to coaching and scouting input more than Beane. So you’ve got what? Zack Moss, Wyatt Teller and who else that become regrettable decisions you moved on from? 
Teller is the only one. Moss did nada here. 

He has a handful of failings, that’s always expected in a crap shoot.
 

Harty, Sherfield and the contract to Miller is rough though. That’s a massive amount of dollar and definitely part of the aging sentiment. Knox we can hold off on, for now. 
 

It’s a blended input from more than Beane… McD and his coaching staff, scouts, trainers, other front office staff around the league…

 

Two players a draft is not good enough.  Not expecting all pro players. Just solid and capable starters. Not with a $40+ million a year QB contract.

 

every single miss in the draft has later been compounded or made up for with a corresponding move (or several moves) that has put us further into a tough cap situation. 

why does he get let off the hook for the guys not working out? Isn’t his job talent evaluation? So if a guy leaves and doesn’t do well anywhere else he is off the hook? Sorry. Don’t share that sentiment. Pick the correct players for your scheme and take advantage of good production on rookie deals. That’s the formula. 
 

this dedication to investing these resources into the same

positions has cost us the opportunity to address the top need this team has had for 2 offseasons. 

[Freddie's Dead]

Beane brought on Floyd, and when the D collapsed due to injury, he got Douglas and Joseph to shore up.  Dorian Williams, Terrel Bernard, Christian  Benford are keepers, so his recent work has been very good.  Elam looks like a bust here, but to me that's coaching, I bet he gets better elsewhere.  Miller contract looked good last year until the ACL.  I give Beane the benefit of the doubt.  McDummy must go.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, <bills4life> said:

Beane is an enigma. Some claim he is a wizard. Others say he has missed out a lot on early round draft picks, has bad contracts, and now has aging and oft injured players on defense.  I’m curious to see what others think. What say you?

I think Bean & McD are part of the same problem:  a defensive minded organization is at a real disadvantage in the NFL.

 

And when you have one of the best QB's of the past 20 years fall into your lap and you don't focus the organizations resources on surrounding the guy with the best tools possible you're committing NFL malpractice in the 2020's.

 

And now Bean/McD have tried to change how Allen plays the position of QB.  The result is tat we're likley to miss the playoffs for the first time in 5 years.  And folks don't doubt me that Bean/McD NOT Dorsey are responsible for screwing with Allen this season. They were forced by circumstances and hopefully by Pegula to unleash Allen and let him play QB the way he has the last 4 seasons.  Against 2 of the better D's in the NFL Allen had been almost unstoppable and the Bills have put up 32 & 34 points.

 

Bean and McD must go. 

 

[Meatloaf63]

34 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

By running well, being patient, seeing holes, being slippery, breaking tackles, and gaining lots of yards. Like the very good RBs in the league do.

Just doesn’t seem like he’s had that many runs or big games. I’m not saying he’s bad, just not featured. 

[billsfan714]

30-40 million over the cap depending on what site you look at.  Cut players XY and Z and those are even more holes to fill.    3 defensive linemen signed to the roster next year.  One of the safeties is a FA, the other one is old too.  Gabe is a FA, lose him you have Diggs, Shakir and nothing.   Pre-Beane scouts got you Milano I believe, correct me if I am wrong on that.   Panics in the first round, throws away picks that could be young, cheap guys to develop.   News flash, other teams dont share their board with Beane.  Turns 2nds into 5ths and 6ths. Waaaaaaaaaaaaay overpaid for a speed rusher on the wrong side of 30.  Extended a TE for 14 million when he was going to take a TE in the first.   I would say his record is mixed.        

[CincyBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Beane brought on Floyd, and when the D collapsed due to injury, he got Douglas and Joseph to shore up.  Dorian Williams, Terrel Bernard, Christian  Benford are keepers, so his recent work has been very good.  Elam looks like a bust here, but to me that's coaching, I bet he gets better elsewhere.  Miller contract looked good last year until the ACL.  I give Beane the benefit of the doubt.  McDummy must go.

 

 

I agree about Floyd and don't care.  Bean is a defensive minded GM and you're not winning a Super Bowl with a defensive minded GM & Head Coach.  Both Bean & McD must go.  They're wasting the talents of a uniquely gifted QB in Allen.  This alone is a firable offense.

[Bagwell358]

3 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Beane brought on Floyd, and when the D collapsed due to injury, he got Douglas and Joseph to shore up.  Dorian Williams, Terrel Bernard, Christian  Benford are keepers, so his recent work has been very good.  Elam looks like a bust here, but to me that's coaching, I bet he gets better elsewhere.  Miller contract looked good last year until the ACL.  I give Beane the benefit of the doubt.  McDummy must go.

 

 

The point is all those picks are having to be used after picks flopped. As we all know veterans cost more money. And the fact that we had little money is why Gabe Davis is WR2 and missing scoring opportunities at the end of game. There is a domino effect

1 minute ago, billsfan714 said:

30-40 million over the cap depending on what site you look at.  Cut players XY and Z and those are even more holes to fill.    3 defensive linemen signed to the roster next year.  One of the safeties is a FA, the other one is old too.  Gabe is a FA, lose him you have Diggs, Shakir and nothing.   Pre-Beane scouts got you Milano I believe, correct me if I am wrong on that.   Panics in the first round, throws away picks that could be young, cheap guys to develop.   News flash, other teams dont share their board with Beane.  Turns 2nds into 5ths and 6ths. Waaaaaaaaaaaaay overpaid for a speed rusher on the wrong side of 30.  Extended a TE for 14 million when he was going to take a TE in the first.   I would say his record is mixed.        

Someone who gets it.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Just doesn’t seem like he’s had that many runs or big games. I’m not saying he’s bad, just not featured. 

 

Because it's 2023 and outside of CMC (who has an obscene 193 carries) RBs dont have big games anymore because they arent a featured position anymore.

 

His 12 carries for 109 yards (with a big 42 yarder) against the Broncos is up there with big games from RBs. Too bad the coach lost it for us in the end. Probably lost it for us in the beginning by benching Cook for way too long.

 

He had 17 for 143 against the Raiders and was key to putting them away.

 

The kid is the real deal, up to the coaching from here.

[Bagwell358]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Because it's 2023 and outside of CMC (who has an obscene 193 carries) RBs dont have big games anymore because they arent a featured position anymore.

 

His 12 carries for 109 yards (with a big 42 yarder) against the Broncos is up there with big games from RBs. Too bad the coach lost it for us in the end. Probably lost it for us in the beginning by benching Cook for way too long.

 

He had 17 for 143 against the Raiders and was key to putting them away.

 

The kid is the real deal, up to the coaching from here.

Execution on first quarter is important too. 
 

[BBFL]

9 minutes ago, Bagwell358 said:

Two players a draft is not good enough.  Not expecting all pro players. Just solid and capable starters. Not with a $40+ million a year QB contract.

 

every single miss in the draft has later been compounded or made up for with a corresponding move (or several moves) that has put us further into a tough cap situation. 

why does he get let off the hook for the guys not working out? Isn’t his job talent evaluation? So if a guy leaves and doesn’t do well anywhere else he is off the hook? Sorry. Don’t share that sentiment. Pick the correct players for your scheme and take advantage of good production on rookie deals. That’s the formula. 
 

this dedication to investing these resources into the same

positions has cost us the opportunity to address the top need this team has had for 2 offseasons. 

Ok. Go across the league and look at how many teams have players drafted and still on their roster after 3 seasons. It’s not as high as you’d like to believe. 
 

When you average 7.5 draft picks a year and draft 2/3 key players to your team, I’d say that’s a success. Furthermore, when 26 of them are still on your team with another 12 are on NFL teams that means you’ve successfully drafted NFL talent on 38 out of the 45 picks Beane has made since 2018…

 

All of those 26 players, over 50% (58% to be exact), is capitalizing on rookie deals (your exact statement). So what’s the counter point now? They have to be pro bowl or all-pro?

 

Picking NFL talent out of thousands of prospects every year isn’t the cake walk you like to believe. Especially when it’s multiple voices and inputs on the decision. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Bagwell358 said:

Execution on first quarter is important too. 
 

 

Sure is, but a fumble does not deserve being benched for 16 plays against a team we could gash in the run. McD being too extra because he has no real instinct on how to handle things.

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, Bagwell358 said:

He’s been bad. Really bad.

 

cap situation is a disaster, multiple day two picks are wasted and we are left with aging players at positions now costing us games.

 

he hit on Allen, made a nice trade for 14. 
 

what else?

Kincaid, Rasul Douglas, Torrence. His drafting prior to this year has been piss poor though

[Bagwell358]

12 minutes ago, BBFL said:

Ok. Go across the league and look at how many teams have players drafted and still on their roster after 3 seasons. It’s not as high as you’d like to believe. 
 

When you average 7.5 draft picks a year and draft 2/3 key players to your team, I’d say that’s a success. Furthermore, when 26 of them are still on your team with another 12 are on NFL teams that means you’ve successfully drafted NFL talent on 38 out of the 45 picks Beane has made since 2018…

 

All of those 26 players, over 50% (58% to be exact), is capitalizing on rookie deals (your exact statement). So what’s the counter point now? They have to be pro bowl or all-pro?

 

Picking NFL talent out of thousands of prospects every year isn’t the cake walk you like to believe. Especially when it’s multiple voices and inputs on the decision. 

Go across the league and give me a percent on how many 1-3 round picks are key contributors and starters. What is the percent on that?

[BBFL]

4 minutes ago, Bagwell358 said:

Go across the league and give me a percent on how many 1-3 round picks are key contributors and starters. What is the percent on that?

No thanks. I’m not the one arguing he’s a failure. I have given you evidence of a majority success rate. 
 

That ball is in your court to provide your argument he’s worse than the rest of the nfl at drafting talent. You got exact numbers that correlate to your rookie contract and drafting statements; something Beane has done. 
 

If you’re going down that route, make sure you point out the amount of first rounders since 2018 who are a) no longer with the current team, and b) no longer in the league. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by BBFL

[Freddie's Dead]

29 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I agree about Floyd and don't care.  Bean is a defensive minded GM and you're not winning a Super Bowl with a defensive minded GM & Head Coach.  Both Bean & McD must go.  They're wasting the talents of a uniquely gifted QB in Allen.  This alone is a firable offense.

 

Dave Mason time.

[Dr.Sack]

Beane and McD are disconnected on Elam. Clearly that grocery bag was spoiled goods. 

[zow2]

I think we need to admit we have a really great QB who is now back on his game…but the team overall is average, partly due to injuries on D , partly because they have that “unclutch” makeup.  

[RyanC883]

50 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Take the QB off a lot of teams and they aren’t playoff teams. The QB matters 

 

Minny and Pit both doing well without a “franchise” QB.  Although I blame the D picks/ reaches on McD.  This year’s draft looks good so far.  

[TC in St. Louis]

I get it.  People are thoroughly disgusted with the 6-6 record, which would be 7-5 if somebody could count to 11.

 

This team was carefully constructed to be a perennial playoff contender.  They still are.  Losing Daquan, Milano and T White, arguably our best 3 defenders, was a disaster.  Our offense got stale and predictable under Dorsey, and they seem to have come back to life.  Everybody seems to agree that Elam was a dud, but I believe he will become a solid performer.  There are examples of DB's not "getting it" until year 3.  In the mean time, they've got Dane Jackson (7th rounder), Benford (late round pick), and Douglas out there doing pretty well.  Taron Johnson was a great pick.  At least 80% of the players drafted by Beane are still in the league.  

 

Harty?  Well, maybe he'll come around.  I doubt it.  Sherfield has not yet been properly used.  

 

Beane isn't going anywhere, but I get the feeling that McDermott is not long for this team unless they turn this around.  

 

If we somehow make the playoffs, barring severe injuries, I like our chances against anybody.

 

Regarding Knox, maybe when he comes back it will open new doors for this offense.  He is overpaid, to be sure.  But he is a solid player.  I hope he's back next week.  

[Bagwell358]

6 minutes ago, BBFL said:

No thanks. I’m not the one arguing he’s a failure. I have given you evidence of a majority success rate. 
 

That ball is in your court to provide your argument he’s worse than the rest of the nfl at drafting talent. You got exact numbers that correlate to your rookie contract and drafting statements; something Beane has done. 
 

If you’re going down that route, make sure you point out the amount of first rounders since 2018 who are a) no longer with the current team, and b) no longer in the league. 

You are being so stupid I can’t stand it. 
 

if you are seriously crediting beane with identifying NFL talent with the likes of Cody Ford, Kair Elam and Boogie Basham then save anymore of your time and start researching common sense. 
 

should we seriously be celebrating the fact that beane has drafted 3 nfl caliber running backs in 5 years all the first 3 rounds. If you think that is a success you are completely missing the point. 

[Airseven]

2 hours ago, Bagwell358 said:

He’s been bad. Really bad.

 

cap situation is a disaster, multiple day two picks are wasted and we are left with aging players at positions now costing us games.

 

he hit on Allen, made a nice trade for 14. 
 

what else?

“Hitting” on Allen essentially amounts to choosing him over Rosen. I guess that deserves some amount of credit.

[Bagwell358]

1 minute ago, Airseven said:

“Hitting” on Allen essentially amounts to choosing him over Rosen. I guess that deserves some amount of credit.

Would he have drafted Allen if he had the first pick?

[BBFL]

Just now, Bagwell358 said:

You are being so stupid I can’t stand it. 
 

if you are seriously crediting beane with identifying NFL talent with the likes of Cody Ford, Kair Elam and Boogie Basham then save anymore of your time and start researching common sense. 
 

should we seriously be celebrating the fact that beane has drafted 3 nfl caliber running backs in 5 years all the first 3 rounds. If you think that is a success you are completely missing the point. 

 

Ok. Go to pettiness, that’s cool. You made a statement, I countered. But instead of providing evidence to support your claim you throw an insult and list 3 players to “back up your claim”. Those 3 players still play and two of them he at least traded for something…

 

I am on record flaming him for the Boogie Basham pick. Was terrible but that doesn’t discount the point that well over half of his draft picks contribute to this current team. 
 

Circle back to your “stupid” point. That falls more on your shoulders for not providing evidence that supports your claim as it is only 6% of all his draft picks. But whatever you want man, you do you, argue and not back up your points fully. It is what it is. 

[Cray51]

1 hour ago, CountDorkula said:

Please do. 

Inherited a non playoff team, takes them to playoff success in his first season

 

Dumps Tyrod for a 3rd, able to use plethora picks to move up and select all pro franchise QB.  Not a good QB, the best in his class.  With maybe 2-3 QBs as good or better than him in the league.

 

Above Average drafts in 2018, 2019, Average in 2020 (considered above average if Diggs deal is included), 2021, 2022, very strong returns for 2023 so far

 

So an above average draft talent evaluator.  In fact, when compared to other teams who are often lauded for their selections (KC, Baltimore), he grades as BETTER than they do (I have a long form post on this somewhere, I can dig it up if needed)

 

Identifying talent: Beane has always been a plus talent identifier.  Even though he has been able to successfully stock the 53 man roster with draft picks, his FA plays are solid.  Brown, Beasley, Williams, McGovern, Morse.  It’s his worst space, but he has rarely completely whiffed. So he is average in this area, and of course it would be awesome to have improvemeant

 

Retaining Talent:  Beanes best area, by far.  He has shown an ability to retain great talent consistently with team and player friendly deals.  Knox, Milano, White, Allen, Diggs, Morse, Poyer, Taron Johnson.  Every time he locks a player down, he makes sure to create the opportunity for flexibility,  and has leveraged it for restructures consistently.  Most every deal he has signed for key talent has shown to be a good/great value deal in hindsight.  He is incredibly strong here.

 

Coaching/Front office: Beane is probably second to San Fran in front office development.  The Bills have lost Daboll and Shoen, have had interviews requested for several others (Frazier, Brady, Dorsey, etc).  His ability to put intelligent people in the room is strong.  It’s not best in the league, but it’s up there.

 

so overall, we have a plus drafter, plus front office manager, plus plus talent retainer, and an average free agent user.  In the highly competitive NFL, that’s top end.

 

 

i am on my phone, so I can’t drive too much more detail, but I’ll end with this: The Bills have the second highest win percentage in the league over the last 3 years, and have done so with a core nucleus that will continue to stay in tact.  Is it perfect?  No. But it’s very good, and something we should be thankful for.

[DrDawkinstein]

25 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Minny and Pit both doing well without a “franchise” QB.  Although I blame the D picks/ reaches on McD.  This year’s draft looks good so far.  

 

Pitt proving our point about how inferior our coaching is. Minny proving the point that teams should hire an Offensive HC.

[Cray51]

1 hour ago, Drew21PA said:

How do people watch that game and feel we lack talent?

 

andy Reid coaches this team and we absolutely slaughter the eagles tonight

 

im more encouraged to know this roster is that solid

 

we have an amazing talent pool 

 

McDermott is a loser and why you lost that game tonight and it was in full display why he can’t get it done yet again

 

id almost fire him and hire bill b from New England 

Didn’t Reid lose to the eagles last week?

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Pitt proving our point about how inferior our coaching is. Minny proving the point that teams should hire an Offensive HC.

The Steelers have one quality win on the season - the Ravens.  They have played weak teams, or good teams with bad situations (no Burrow for example).  Their absolute max is a division appearance this season.  And I do believe Tomlin is a top 5 coach in this league.  But they are lucky right now to be 7-4

[Einstein]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Because he tore his ACL.  Was playing great last year before that.

 

Injuries are part of the risk of signing 33 year old players.

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, stinky finger said:

You don't need better scouts. The braintrust needs to make offense the priority.

No one on this board is more aware of that then I am.

[Brian Higgins hair]

….Maybe, just maybe when you consistently miss on early round players like Basham, Elam, Epenesa, and destroy the cap by signing aging vets like Miller, Tre and Poyer, this is what happens. You are set up for heartbreak. 
missing on picks happens, but this consistency?

‘McDermott holds a lot of responsibility, but Beane is no GM god.

 

 

 

[Gregg]

Coaching is holding this team back. McDermott should be the fall guy for this. Let Beane make his first coaching hire. If McDermott does get fired and Beane stays, then he will be the next one to go if they don't get it fixed. I know this won't happen, but I would love the hear from Terry Pegula since his opinion is the only one that counts.