TB / Buffalo Postgame thread

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

50 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

win didn't inspire any confidence  Honestly I have zero confidence in the Bills being able to overcome McDermott's nonsense  Bucs game coming down to a hail mary seems ridiculous

‘Coming down to a Hail Mary’ is still a ridiculous statement to me haha the jags absolutely dominated us and we had a shot at a hook and ladder play for the win does that mean we almost won? Literally every little bounce/break went the bucs way until the final moments and that’s the closest they came 
 

i have no problem with people being critical of things but there were objectively quite a few positives last night as well 

[34-78-83]

40 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

I don’t remember 2 missed targets unless they’re counting deflection interception by Winfield as a target to kincaid.  Nonetheless, Kincaid needs the ball more.  He’s catching 90% of his targets. 

Exactly.... Which is also why catches per target is kind of an empty stat. Catches per targets that are catch-able would be much more of a telling stat with regard to the reliability of a receiver.

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I'll also add to this thought, I firmly believe Elam is a better player than the Bills have allowed him to be. And the coaching is doing more to ruin him than develop him.

 

Weird that coaching is ruining Elam. Same coaching staff that has done excellent building Levi Wallace, Dane Jackson and Christian Benford at the same position. But it's just Elam that they ruin. 

[Big Turk]

Steph saying a little endzone prayer pre-game..

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, BuffaloBillyG said:

Weird that coaching is ruining Elam. Same coaching staff that has done excellent building Levi Wallace, Dane Jackson and Christian Benford at the same position. But it's just Elam that they ruin. 

Assuming that’s sarcasm I completely agree 😂 it’s tough to tell sometimes around these parts lol 

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Weird that coaching is ruining Elam. Same coaching staff that has done excellent building Levi Wallace, Dane Jackson and Christian Benford at the same position. But it's just Elam that they ruin. 

 

They can get better play out of lesser players, but have trouble getting players with decent pedigrees where they need to be.

 

Every player is different, and needs different things. I'm sure plenty of the blame is on Elam. But I dont trust McD much with his early assessments.

 

Similar to the line "Sean McDermott is the type of coach who can take a bottom-5 roster to a wild card. But also the type of coach who will take a top-5 roster to the wild card".

[starrymessenger]

Deonte Harty is pretty fast and shifty for a guy who many thought was slowing down. What we saw yesterday was what Beane thought he was getting when he signed him. Maybe he could even have a role in the offence. Who would have thought.

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, DuckyBoys said:

win didn't inspire any confidence  Honestly I have zero confidence in the Bills being able to overcome McDermott's nonsense  Bucs game coming down to a hail mary seems ridiculous

Once you let go, you will find peace…

 

[Big Turk]

Did someone say Kincaid can't block??

 

He just absolutely annihilated Shaq Barrett on this rep.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Big Turk

[Don Otreply]

59 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I think the Tampa style of defense contributed to the Bills success. They are a heavy blitz team and a pass funnel defense. 

 

The Bills coaching game plan and play calling was excellent. The players execution was atva high level. 

 

I wonder if the Bills can maintain this kind of offense going forward. Any thoughts from smarter people than myself? 

I wonder this as well, imo, spreading the passes around makes the Bills harder to defend against, and likely will lead to more success, maybe that’s just me,

 

GO BILLS!!!

[WhoTom]

13 hours ago, Cray51 said:

Dorsey called an incredibly good game today.  Like very very good.

 

Except for a certain 3rd-and-goal situation ... followed by a certain 4th-and-goal situation.

[jkeerie]

3 hours ago, boyst said:

penalties do happen. we should not have been in that position

I do agree that the offense got too conservative in that 4th quarter.  I really didn't take issue with the punts since TB was having a really hard time moving the football into Bills territory.  We've seen McD go for it numerous times on 4th down against better offensive teams.  Even Josh admitted the offense should not have left the defense in that position and that they need to "close games out on their own terms."

[DapperCam]

I think force feeding Diggs was a version of the offense being conservative. Usually that is a guaranteed completion and the clock keeps moving. Didn't really work out last night though.

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, Roundybout said:

I really can’t believe how lucky the Bucs got last night, between Josh’s interception, the Evans touchdown boinking off Benford’s helmet, the 2-point conversion, Poyer dropping an easy pick-6….

Poyer almost had two picks there was another one he missed, then you add in the 4th down penalties, the Buccaneers getting within range of winning that game was a miracle.

 

Not to mention our own kneecapping of our offense because we wanted to "burn clock" which was incredibly effective seeing how we had to give the ball to the other team. 🙄

[Success]

Seems pretty obvious now - if Beane makes a trade, it's gotta be on the defensive side of the ball.

 

The D is SO different than it was the 1st few games.  Which makes sense, losing 3 top guys. But that's going to be a weakness until we add players, either via trade or returning from injury.

 

[dpberr]

Last night's game showed McDermott is a good NFL coach, but not a great one.

 

Good coaches can often get the job done.  Great coaches don't allow that game to end like it did.

 

He was only saved last night by playing one of the few NFL coaches who strategizes more conservatively than he does.  

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

I was pleasantly surprised and, at times, almost shocked by the Bills offense last night. It was like night and day from what we've seen the past few weeks. Things that stood out:

- Felt like the 2020-2021 offense again. Spread, tempo, quick decisions

- Speaking of quick decisions, at one point the broadcast showed that it was Allen's fastest EVER time-to-throw in his career. Impressive.

- THAT was the Khalil Shakir we all thought we would be getting on draft day. If he can be THAT guy moving forward? Huge.

- The biggest surprise of all: Gabe Davis! I have NEVER seen him look like that in a game. To be moved around like that, to be featured, to be making contributions in the short and intermediate game like that. Where has THAT been his whole career? As I said with Shakir, if Gabe can be THAT guy moving forward? Huge.

- Kincaid and Cook. Youngsters showing up and showing out.

- Actually, the offensive production mostly belonged to younger guys last night. Cook, Kincaid, Shakir, and even Davis is only 24 years old. Youth movement on offense. Love to see it.

- Well-called game by Dorsey. Didn't love that they sort of called the dogs off in the second half and got more conservative. Hopefully almost losing the game will teach them not to do that any more.

- Getting Josh Allen to the line early -- like with, say, 20 seconds on the play clock -- is key. The players spoke about it throughout the week, and then sure enough, they made an effort to do it last night. I hope it's here to stay. The Bills are a different offense when this happens, and Allen is a different quarterback. He looked fully in command last night, fully confident, and fully in rhythm. I think the tempo and getting to the line early were big reasons why.

 

All in all, returning to their offensive roots + spread formations + getting different targets involved + tempo + getting to the line early + confident Josh = very fun viewing.

Oh and, by the way: When the offense is actually producing and moving the ball, the rest it gives the defense allows the defense to look MUCH better and more effective. And speaking of defense, let me just say: I really, REALLY hope that that chaotic craziness that the front seven was showing before many plays last night is here to stay. The double A-gap stuff, the simulated pressures, all of it. Awesome. Great gameplan by McDermott, too.

 

I hope if nothing else the players take ownership of it and reinforce how effective it clearly was, because for whatever reason we did move away from it. Then even after the Bucs crazy lucky ass drive we still stayed away, even though we just needed to last long enough to be able to burn the clock on downs. So we just needed to convert a couple first downs.

[Warcodered]

37 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Did someone say Kincaid can't block??

 

He just absolutely annihilated Shaq Barrett on this rep.

 

 

I know that's been the narrative about him coming out, but I remember in preseason he looked a lot better than expected as a blocker.

[DuckyBoys]

yes the Bucs caught a ton of breaks/lucky bounces to have a shot at the ending but the Bills allowed it with bad play calls, lack of discipline on defense  and taking their foot off the gas too soon  All trademarks of McDermott

[Marv Levy]

I know this is way late but in the second half I saw a "First and 18" going on. What was up with that? Did I miss a penalty?  I didn't understand what happened to make the first down that weird combo. Anybody?

[SCBills]

I have NEVER seen such a bad bounce game in my life.  
 

I still can’t get over the trifecta of Allen deflection, pick - Benford deflection, TD - Phillips deflection, 2 pt conversion. 
 

Add in a muffed recovery, ball bouncing directly back to Baker on a high snap, Phillips facemask… felt like we were cursed last night. 

[WideNine]

13 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

yes the Bucs caught a ton of breaks/lucky bounces to have a shot at the ending but the Bills allowed it with bad play calls, lack of discipline on defense  and taking their foot off the gas too soon  All trademarks of McDermott

 

As much as Beane and McD focus on edge rushers and DBs in the draft (and looking like Elam may be a wash) it amazes me that they have not prioritized that 1-T DT spot.

 

1st we had Star who was on the downward spiral of performance, then Settle and Jones in FA. Jones is fantastic when not injured and Settle is not the answer to anchor this line.

 

For how important that position is to anchoring this line and making this defense hum, they need to prioritized a young prospect to groom.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by WideNine

[Logic]

20 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I hope if nothing else the players take ownership of it and reinforce how effective it clearly was, because for whatever reason we did move away from it. Then even after the Bucs crazy lucky ass drive we still stayed away, even though we just needed to last long enough to be able to burn the clock on downs. So we just needed to convert a couple first downs.

Yeah I felt it was pretty palpable that they made the decision of "hey, let's burn clock and play call control" instead of "let's keep attacking" once they built a two score lead. Didn't love that.

The thing is, they can still do the tempo and "getting to the line early" stuff and ALSO bleed the clock down to 01 before they snap it. They need not be mutually exclusive.

If they somehow come out against the Bengals NOT executing this same basic plan (tempo, getting to the line early, spreading things out), I'll be very discouraged. They've been looking for a clear identity on offense all season. This is it. It's clear as day. I hope they see it, too.

[Warcodered]

8 minutes ago, Marv Levy said:

I know this is way late but in the second half I saw a "First and 18" going on. What was up with that? Did I miss a penalty?  I didn't understand what happened to make the first down that weird combo. Anybody?

I think there was like a weird holding call maybe off of a run down field that moved it to 1st and 12 or 13 maybe then a 5 yard penalty for Offside?

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

Yeah I felt it was pretty palpable that they made the decision of "hey, let's burn clock and play call control" instead of "let's keep attacking" once they built a two score lead. Didn't love that.

The thing is, they can still do the tempo and "getting to the line early" stuff and ALSO bleed the clock down to 01 before they snap it. They need not be mutually exclusive.

If they somehow come out against the Bengals NOT executing this same basic plan (tempo, getting to the line early, spreading things out), I'll be very discouraged. They've been looking for a clear identity on offense all season. This is it. It's clear as day. I hope they see it, too.

Absolutely, hell a bunch of the time even in the up tempo offense Allen would take enough time breaking down the defense and audibling that he used up most of the playclock. The key is awareness if Josh knows he's got to do it he's shown he's more than capable of making the decisions to keep the clock rolling, plus odds are there's a big playclock on either end of the field telling him how much time he has to burn.

[Mango]

One specific bright spot from last night wasn't just Davis, but it was the diversity of routes and depth that Davis ran last night. He didn't just have a good game he basically ran all over the field and caught everything thrown his way.

Special shout out to Shakir who seems to have a knack for finding green space. 

 

Even after I slept on it, I am very angry with Josh and Dorsey for costing me an 11 leg parlay. All they needed to do was throw the ball to Cook twice. One more pass to Cook. ONE! Come on guys.

[Cray51]

1 hour ago, WhoTom said:

 

Except for a certain 3rd-and-goal situation ... followed by a certain 4th-and-goal situation.

I've mentioned it 5-7 times across several threads over the last 12 hours, the 3rd down RPO would have a better outcome if Allen didnt give the ball to Murray.  Allen had one on one with the corner if he takes the ball.

And the 4th down play was a great switch-off from LB to Corner.  It wasn't my favorite play, but the defense did incredibly well there.

 

Dorsey wasn't perfect, but he was damn good in scheming a game we all wanted.  Everyone said before the game "get tempo, no huddle, spread the ball around, use Kincaid more, use Allen's legs"  And ALL of that was achieved.  Like, every single one.

 

Did we play conservative on 4th and short?  Yes.  Did we not execute at the goal line? Yes.  But my god, people want to switch their narratives every week on what's acceptable from this team.

 

Allen had 365 all purpose yards, Cook ran for 4.8 a carry.  Davis/Shakir/Diggs/Kincaid all had good games.

[Dan]

I was not able to watch the game because I was driving through mountains all day. Got home finally and read a few quick articles to see how the game went… who won, how the offense looked, etc.  After 3 quick articles at NFL.com, cbs.com, and msn (I think); I was feeing pretty good and positive… almost as though the Bills looked good in a sound win. 
 

Then I came here to read some of the local “fan” reaction, maybe get the views of some that attended the game (always love that perspective), and hope there was links to funny memes, post game conference clips, and the like.   And wow… now I’m convinced the Bills lost.  McD should be fired and we need to rebuild the team from the ground up.  We sucked again and will be lucky to win another game all year. 
 

In short, this place is becoming a cesspool of miserable takes, negativity, and reactions.  How did TBD become so bad?  

[Big Turk]

Bills audible game is pretty hilarious...starting to try and listen closely so I can hear them more now.

 

"Lebron James"

"Taylor Swift/JR Smith(Lebron's teammate)"

"Roast Beef"

"Nacho Nacho"

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Big Turk

[Cray51]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

One specific bright spot from last night wasn't just Davis, but it was the diversity of routes and depth that Davis ran last night. He didn't just have a good game he basically ran all over the field and caught everything thrown his way.

Special shout out to Shakir who seems to have a knack for finding green space. 

 

Even after I slept on it, I am very angry with Josh and Dorsey for costing me an 11 leg parlay. All they needed to do was throw the ball to Cook twice. One more pass to Cook. ONE! Come on guys.

What was the lost payout??

[Franco_92]

Even just getting Oliver back made a big difference for our DL. It went from being blown back 5 yards off the ball every play to being functional and even good at times. If we can add a DT at the deadline, get ankou up to speed to replace ford, and keep Ed healthy I think we will be alright there, especially if Von gets better.

[Mango]

7 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

What was the lost payout??

 

$50 on ~+1400, so $700. 

[WhoTom]

9 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

I've mentioned it 5-7 times across several threads over the last 12 hours, the 3rd down RPO would have a better outcome if Allen didnt give the ball to Murray.  Allen had one on one with the corner if he takes the ball.

And the 4th down play was a great switch-off from LB to Corner.  It wasn't my favorite play, but the defense did incredibly well there.

 

Dorsey wasn't perfect, but he was damn good in scheming a game we all wanted.  Everyone said before the game "get tempo, no huddle, spread the ball around, use Kincaid more, use Allen's legs"  And ALL of that was achieved.  Like, every single one.

 

Did we play conservative on 4th and short?  Yes.  Did we not execute at the goal line? Yes.  But my god, people want to switch their narratives every week on what's acceptable from this team.

 

Allen had 365 all purpose yards, Cook ran for 4.8 a carry.  Davis/Shakir/Diggs/Kincaid all had good games.

 

I agree with all of that and I'll give Dorsey his props for calling a very good game overall. However, the TD that we didn't score on that drive might have provided enough cushion so that we wouldn't have been biting our nails with 4 seconds left in the game.

 

 

[Warcodered]

23 minutes ago, Dan said:

I was not able to watch the game because I was driving through mountains all day. Got home finally and read a few quick articles to see how the game went… who won, how the offense looked, etc.  After 3 quick articles at NFL.com, cbs.com, and msn (I think); I was feeing pretty good and positive… almost as though the Bills looked good in a sound win. 
 

Then I came here to read some of the local “fan” reaction, maybe get the views of some that attended the game (always love that perspective), and hope there was links to funny memes, post game conference clips, and the like.   And wow… now I’m convinced the Bills lost.  McD should be fired and we need to rebuild the team from the ground up.  We sucked again and will be lucky to win another game all year. 
 

In short, this place is becoming a cesspool of miserable takes, negativity, and reactions.  How did TBD become so bad?  

The reason it got so bad is despite the fact that the Bills should have clearly blown out the Bucs we somehow managed to find a way to potentially lose on the last play of the game. Having games like that every week is ***** exhausting.

 

On the positive the offense showed that it indeed can be very effective, they ran the fast tempo offense spreading the ball around giving Josh time to scan the defense and find the opening to dice them up. The Bucs slowed us down in the red zone through a combination of us going back to the bad play calling and them just having one of the best red zone defenses in the league. Defense also played well this game, they made a few mistakes but overall played a good game.

 

Problem was that once we got a 14 point lead in the second half, it seemed like we decided to stop doing what was working on offense to try and burn clock, which ironically did the opposite. So instead of a dominant win we watched the game end with us hanging on by our fingernails, and that's just frustrating. Which leads to fans to release that pent up frustration here.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, DuckyBoys said:

yes the Bucs caught a ton of breaks/lucky bounces to have a shot at the ending but the Bills allowed it with bad play calls, lack of discipline on defense  and taking their foot off the gas too soon  All trademarks of McDermott

Kind of true. Not McD fan here as most know. I will say this narrative is not so accurate in regular season games. McD's has won a plenty over the last few years of the regular season. He deserves credit for that. 

 

The Bills won a lot of close games last year.  I thought that narrative was squashed after last year. 

 

The playoffs is a whole different topic. That's where I think McD really gets exposed. However, I don't wanna go there right now. Not the right time after such a nice win. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

Yeah I felt it was pretty palpable that they made the decision of "hey, let's burn clock and play call control" instead of "let's keep attacking" once they built a two score lead. Didn't love that.

The thing is, they can still do the tempo and "getting to the line early" stuff and ALSO bleed the clock down to 01 before they snap it. They need not be mutually exclusive.

If they somehow come out against the Bengals NOT executing this same basic plan (tempo, getting to the line early, spreading things out), I'll be very discouraged. They've been looking for a clear identity on offense all season. This is it. It's clear as day. I hope they see it, too.

Also you can't just turn it back on once you turn it off.  So the point in the game where you throttle down has be carefully considered.  They did it to early last night.  Hopefully they learn their lesson.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by CincyBillsFan

[DrDawkinstein]

27 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

The reason it got so bad is despite the fact that the Bills should have clearly blown out the Bucs we somehow managed to find a way to potentially lose on the last play of the game. Having games like that every week is ***** exhausting.

 

On the positive the offense showed that it indeed can be very effective, they ran the fast tempo offense spreading the ball around giving Josh time to scan the defense and find the opening to dice them up. The Bucs slowed us down in the red zone through a combination of us going back to the bad play calling and them just having one of the best red zone defenses in the league. Defense also played well this game, they made a few mistakes but overall played a good game.

 

Problem was that once we got a 14 point lead in the second half, it seemed like we decided to stop doing what was working on offense to try and burn clock, which ironically did the opposite. So instead of a dominant win we watched the game end with us hanging on by our fingernails, and that's just frustrating. Which leads to fans to release that pent up frustration here.

 

3 more points, any time in the 2nd half, and the game is over. Everyone can breathe. The vibe among the fanbase is totally different.

 

4 drives and we couldnt even get into FG range.

 

Yikes.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Marv Levy said:

I know this is way late but in the second half I saw a "First and 18" going on. What was up with that? Did I miss a penalty?  I didn't understand what happened to make the first down that weird combo. Anybody?

When offensive holding occurs beyond the LOS, it’s a spot foul and marked 10 yards back from the spot of the infraction. In this case, the holding occurred two yards beyond the LOS resulting in the 1st and 18 down.

[Cray51]

1 hour ago, WhoTom said:

 

I agree with all of that and I'll give Dorsey his props for calling a very good game overall. However, the TD that we didn't score on that drive might have provided enough cushion so that we wouldn't have been biting our nails with 4 seconds left in the game.

 

 

Yea I absolutely agree.  We honestly should have executed better, but I dont really put it on Dorsey.  I think that's on Allen for making the wrong read and then giving credit to the defense of the Bucs who did well on 4th

[Big Turk]

former NFL WR Donte Stallworth claims the Bills D "executed the defense of the Hail Mary perfectly".  But what the hell does he know?